Thread: Too many group quests in older zones

You're not the only one experiencing it - it's been a problem since well, basically forever. When I started playing there was basically no one between the starter area (where there were free trials) and 50th level part of Angmar. The only time I've ever grouped was in the Lonelands - not a lack of design, just that the game was empty.

The game is just designed poorly in some aspects. There's no proper global channels, only user ones, so you're only getting a fraction of the people playing. The social/LFF panel is terrible.

And the quests - all too often there is a quest chain of several solo quests, capped by a group quest. I don't think that was ever a good idea.

Group content and instances should be scaling to the number of people involved, whether this is two people, four, or six. Inspiration was kind of a half-assed attempt to introduce this to the game, but there is a lot that could be improved upon.

Originally Posted by PenguinIceNinja

then they should offer a solo alternative as in "inspiration."

No, they absolutely should *not* ruin all group quests by IG-ifying them. Every single quest in the epic chain that has been modified for "inspired greatness" (nothing great about it IMO!) has been *ruined* for groups. Even those of us who *do* put 6 players together to eliminate the "cheat code" buff are left with an instance with *no* challenge. All combat mechanics are stripped from the quest in order to allow completion by a single individual using the "cheat code" boost, thus the instance is nothing but a dps race.

The only way to make instances solo-able while still preserving the group content is to go the route of Weathertop and the Vol 2 Ch.8 instances, and make NEW quests for the solo crowd. And to do this for every quest would be a staggering amount of work for the devs. How much new content would you be willing to sacrifice to revamp the entire game? Me? Very little...

The fact there are still a few (VERY few) quests left that actually require a group is not a problem to be solved. It is simply a few quests aimed at a different play style. If you don't want to (or can't) get a group together...move on.

Originally Posted by PenguinIceNinja

It's hard to believe that purchasing both Angmar and Misty only got me 5 levels.

Not really. You chose one zone (the ONLY one) that is still heavily group centric...and one zone that is very light on quests anyway. Had you chosen Forochel instead of Angmar, I suspect this thread would not have been created (by you at least) as *that* area has only one or two group quests in the whole zone. All the rest is a soloer's playground.

I call BS to most of the MMO philosophers here. The OP is 100% correct. It doesn't matter what server you are on, the group questing areas in Angmar and MM are EMPTY. I've taken 4 alts through MM and Angmar, and I don't remember seeing anyone fighting the 8,000+ morale elite mobs, whether group or solo. If there is solo content in the area, like the giant area in MM, everyone just gives them a wide berth and does the solo stuff.

I think this is a great game and I have given Turbine lots of my money, but having said that, fellowship quests and the sprawling elite mob areas are obviously a broken paradigm. Everyone who plays this game for more than a month knows that nearly all the group play is instanced, and nearly all landscape questing is done solo. I really think Turbine should fix this collosal waste of content and bring these qests and areas back into the game as it is actually played. Those who QQ making level 30 quests soloable while they spend all their game time in end game raids with the same small group of people aren't doing the community or the long term viability of LotRO any favors.

Right. The stuff that should require grouping is the stuff that is currently end game. So, the new Rohan areas would be fine to have group activities, but you have to take into account that as soon an expansion launches, the previous end game content gets deserted. For those who came from wow, this is the equivalent of say winter spring and ungoro crater when lich king came out. Two-expansions removed, it's deserted.

I strongly disagree with the OP. There are plenty of solo quests in Angmar to get way higher than level 46. You might have to start doing level 46-50 quests but they're still not very hard in regular quest gear. A fair number of the small-fellowship quests can be solo'd as well if you're experienced and know how to play your toon.

Not good enough to do solo quests a couple levels higher? Work on the epic books. With the inspired buff it isn't very hard to plow through an epic quest 4 levels higher. There are a couple books dedicated to level 50s which means lots and lots of easy quests.

Even better...go to Eregion and work on the epic book to receive your first legendary weapon. There is a whole slew of quests for that which I started at level 45 on all my toons. Still having trouble? Do a couple deeds killing on-level mobs. You're knocking out virtues you use (win) and can easily gain a level (win) to make Angmar quests easier. There are so many options available I'd hate to see them nerf the 1% of group content still left in the game that is actually semi-fun.

Timmy, there's nothing to disagree with. I've done all solo quests in Angmar (6 quest hubs) and just barely hit 47 today. It's simply a fact.

Originally Posted by PenguinIceNinja

Timmy, there's nothing to disagree with.

Sure there is. He (and I) disagree with your contention that because you didn't choose to buy Forochel, the game should be altered to suit the choice you *did* make.

To buy the *only* group centric zone in the whole game....and then ask that it be nerfed into a solo zone so it can be just like every other zone.

Originally Posted by PenguinIceNinja

Timmy, there's nothing to disagree with. I've done all solo quests in Angmar (6 quest hubs) and just barely hit 47 today. It's simply a fact.

Considering you said:

I bought both Angmar and Misty Mountains, have only gotten to level 46, and have literally 10 group quests to do. Every time I log in, I do an LFF for them, and no avail. I think buying 2 quest packs for the same level range should be quite enough content to level from.

I highly suspect you missed a great deal of easy quests if you only managed to get level 47. On top of that a great deal of those "small-fellowship" and "fellowship" quests can be done solo on-level. Anyways...you're complaining because you don't have enough quests to level up which you clearly do. There are likely over 100+ book quests you can do at your level completely solo.

Belias_Lassite summed it up pretty well.

I think most of the people posting on this thread are missing the real issue.

It's not solo vs. group

it's FORCED solo (due to lack of players in the area) vs. people who are established in-game with regular groups

My opinions on the issue: Mostly, I see the problem with newer players. These are players I assume Turbine wants to keep. Newer players DO have a hard time in areas where grouping is strongly encouraged, because they are having a hard time finding a group. If these areas are going to remain group-centered, I think that they should be advertised as such in the store. Because to buy a zone, and only be able to play a small part of it, is really a pain in the rear.

I challenge those of you who are criticising the OP to take an on-level character to North Downs right now and using LFF, find a group of people there who are all on-level (who aren't your kin-mates or buddies) and run Fornost. It's impossible to get grouping for areas like these because nobody who knows any better buys them anymore. 99% of people run through Lone Lands/Evendim/Forochel/Eregion. MAYBE you could do it in one of the more heavily-populated servers. Maybe.

I think some of the comments taking jabs at the OP, things like "not good enough to do solo quests a couple levels higher?" etc, are taking things too far. Yes, Angmar is a group centered area, and most people I've talked to would like it to remain that way. What it really shows when people start taking jabs at others is that you feel threatened. And yes, solo is becoming the trend in MMO's. But it isn't the OP's fault. Has anybody yet offered to maybe help this person run a few of the group quests? I haven't read all of the comments on this thread, but I highly doubt it. People are so ready to start the solo vs group debate that they forget about what MMO's are really supposed to be about: community.

To the OP, yes, you probably should have bought Forochel and skipped Angmar and Misty Mountains, because like the OP indicated, they're kindof deserted now that they're not end-game and it's hard to find groups for them.

One thing you could probably do is explore Goblin Town in Misty Mountains. It's not too bad on-level (although I think the level for that is actually 48-50ish?). I had a lot of fun just exploring that and killing the goblins as I went. Plus, there's a really good respawn rate and they drop tons of Rivendell reputation items. Or buy Forochel. It's a really beautiful area. Or try joining a good kin that runs lower-level stuff sometimes. If you weren't aware that Angmar and Misty Mountains were group-centered when you bought them, I'm really sorry. I do feel that at least Angmar should be advertised as such in the store so people are aware before they buy.

Originally Posted by paintpixie

I think most of the people posting on this thread are missing the real issue.

It's not solo vs. group

it's FORCED solo (due to lack of players in the area) vs. people who are established in-game with regular groups

To some extent, perhaps, but I think you're overstating the case. On the other hand, some of us see the way the wind is blowing (*forced* solo quests blocking advancement *at all* in both Dunland and the Great River zones) and get a bit twitchy at calls to further turn the game into a "community" of folks all playing the game separately.

I'm not going to try and say my experience mirrors that of everyone (or even a majority of players) but I *did* take your challenge...and went one step further. When Turbine took over the Codemaster's servers last June, I created new characters on Laurelin. I had no friends on the server...no kin on the server, and with the exception of knowing the game well (16 characters on Landroval from mid 20's to raid-ready endgame characters) I was essentially a new player.

I played for all of June and July pretty much by myself. Didn't get a couple friends to join me til mid August, and joined a kin shortly after that...

BUT I managed to find groups for GB, GA *and* Fornost, as well as all the content in Dol Dinnen using nothing but LFF (I dislike the chatter on global) and contacts I made while RPing. When Angmar came up, those same people and I did *all* of it. I didn't need to rely on over leveled kinmates until the class item quests in CD and Uru came up. (And I likely *could* have done those without turning to the kin, but they offered, and I wanted the trait!)

What's more, I am from the Midwest USA, and was playing on a server with the vast majority of the player base on European time...yet I *still* found people to play with.

It may take a little more than calling out on /LFF every few minutes, but finding a group to play with is *not* the impossible dream some seem to think it is. Like anything else...you get out of it what you put into it.

Originally Posted by Belias_Lassiter

I'm not going to try and say my experience mirrors that of everyone (or even a majority of players) but I *did* take your challenge...

That's a nice anecdote, but I suspect you are correct that your experience doesn't mirror that of most people. If it did, there wouldn't be much reason for this conversation. I wouldn't be surprised to find that Laurelin is one of the better servers to find worthwhile PUGs. Aside from that, this summer is not last summer. We had a major expansion last fall, and another expansion is on the horizon. There was a major new MMO released last fall, and another one is about to hit the market. There was a lot of activity for GB and GA last year this time on Imladris, but this year...silence.

Actually, the OP was more concerned with fellowship quests, but it is almost as bad for the older instances.

This game originally was based on group questing. Zones like North Downs which contains many group quests or angmar ( which was former end game zone ). Yes,since everything passed on angmar now is just a pain in &&& with bunch of impossible to solo quests which everyone just skips cause noone wants to waist time finding group for it. Same will happen to all isengard content ,since every whiny kid like thread author will want to hit 85 as fast as possible and be 'cool' . What turbine needs to do is revamp angmar and northdowns.

Originally Posted by PenguinIceNinja

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XWLEt5BiDR...nShot00045.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NjVKgrtdqv...nShot00046.jpg Those are screenshots of all of the quests in those two zones. There are 12 group quests hindering my leveling ability. I asked for advice here, and was told to get Angmar because it had the most quests. Then during the sale I bought Misty to help me out. I don't have any friends that play this game, and I don't have a kin. I would think joining a kin just so that a high level player can do these quests for me would be a moochy reason to join a kin.

For the record, Angmar was the level cap zone when L50 was the cap. Of course it is a composed of lots of fellowship quests - that's what level cap players do - fellow up and take on tougher content. Thats what L60s did in Moria, what L65s did in Mirkwood and later Endwaith, and it is what L75s do in Isengard/Great River.

Question: What exactly do you intend on doing once you have soloed a toon to L75? If your answer is run around solo, I can't imagine a more boring existence than that.

Honestly, what do you think kinships are all about? They are groups of people that did not know each other but took a chance and joined together to give and receive help and share good times while playing the game. You don't join a kin to get high level characters to do a quest for you - that is an exercise in boredom for all involved. Any reasonable kin is composed of many players - most of whom have multiple characters of a myriad of levels. Once you are a known entity, a true kinship will contain many players that are more than happy to switch to a level appropriate character and run through a quest with you - to the benefit of all involved.

If all you want is to be able to play by yourself, you should have invested in a first person shooter game. MMO's are about meeting people and getting together to the benefit of all involved. I have three fully raid ready L75s, one L49, two L35s, and a L18 - and lots of folks in my kin have similar accounts. Once you join a kin and get to know some of the folks there, someone will always be happy to help out - as long as you do the same back.

To steal the gist of a famous quote "Ask not what your kinship can do for you, but rather ask what you can do for your kinship." Follow that philosophy and those group quests will be something you look forward to doing.

Luinmiriel-Magellin
Elven Huntress of Lorien
Honoured Warrior of the White Lady

Originally Posted by jiupitsu

You are right that it is difficult to find random people for it but that's why you should ask a friend, kinnie or someone you've seen running around in other areas perhaps. These are the last bit of fun group quests and you want them to be gone? There is more! then enough solo stuff to get to 50 multiple times over, there is really no need at all to take these little remaining group quests away!

And the last time you ran these ON LEVEL without level-cap 'help' was when?

Fact is, Angmar has been a pain since it ceased to be the end-game zone it originally was. These days I doubt one on-level group a month does it as designed, everyone else either (a) skips it or (b) gets a level 75 kinnie to come along to 'help' do them.

And suggesting some are solable is fine, except you're a new player quite probably won't have the experience (and probably gear) to be able to do any of them.

Old players who wax lyrical about the golden age of group content forget that the game isn't like it was, this is no longer current content, GLFF is a barren wasteland for anything other than end-level phat lewt grinds.

Originally Posted by Rataan

That's a nice anecdote, but I suspect you are correct that your experience doesn't mirror that of most people. If it did, there wouldn't be much reason for this conversation.

True enough, but then I suspect the way I go about looking for groups doesn't mirror most others, either. I don't simply call out in /LFF (or a global version of the same which I never bother to join, let alone use), I make friends. I help other people, and friend them so they can return the favor when I need help. I meet folks through RP and make more friends, and come up with creative ways to incorporate the quests I need into RP stories that make others *want* to come along, even if they don't need the quests themselves.

Originally Posted by Rataan

I wouldn't be surprised to find that Laurelin is one of the better servers to find worthwhile PUGs.

Most of the groups I put together weren't exactly PUGs in the usual sense of the word. As I said above, I go out of my way to make new friends...even now, when I *have* a decent friends list and a kin to call on, I'm always on the lookout for new folks to meet, RP with, and maybe join up and quest with. Just a couple weeks ago I had a L40ish alt that I wanted to run Tomb of Elendil on. Tough to find a group for that one, right? Wrong. It took maybe 90 minutes to put it together. Three RP friends I hadn't quested with before, one person I had *just* met on the pre-quests, and the last slot filled on the second /LFF call. (Which I resorted to because the only kinnies any of us had who were willing to go were over-level...and we didn't want a cake walk...we wanted it to be FUN.)

Originally Posted by Rataan

Aside from that, this summer is not last summer. We had a major expansion last fall, and another expansion is on the horizon. There was a major new MMO released last fall, and another one is about to hit the market.

So...in effect you're saying the two situations are pretty much identical. What am I missing?

Originally Posted by Rataan

There was a lot of activity for GB and GA last year this time on Imladris, but this year...silence.

I can't speak to the activity level on Imladris, but that's not been my experience on Laurelin at all.

I don't know...maybe it's being an active RPer, but a great many folks in that segment of the player base are *not* in the "race to 75" mindset. Many of us *have* L75s, but with alts we're currently working on it's about the story and the journey...not the destination.

Of course you are going to find it hard to find groups for quests for content that is a few years old
Same goes for any MMO

Thats the one thing I like about Lotro, now you can summon your skirmish companion and do most by yourself
Its really cheap for what it is, like 100TP for 1HR

Well worth it if you really want to get the group quests done

I dont understand why not make 2 choice to do a quest, solo with a power stone and normal in group

Originally Posted by Shakow

Thats the one thing I like about Lotro, now you can summon your skirmish companion and do most by yourself
Its really cheap for what it is, like 100TP for 1HR

That only works on landscape, not in instances, and a lot of the quests where you really need the help are instanced.

Originally Posted by Ironher

I dont understand why not make 2 choice to do a quest, solo with a power stone and normal in group

Because most full fellowship (6-man) quests and instances require strategies that need several characters with different skillsets to deal with them, e.g. to separate npcs or to be in two places at the same time. If you change quests/instances so any class can finish them solo with only some buffs you have to take those mechanics out and make the only requirement to finish "put out a lot of damage".

There really isn't any fun in group quests and instances if it's just about every character putting out as much damage as possible. That's one of the reasons why a lot of people I know (myself included) don't enjoy skirmishes quite as much as regular fixed-size instances. The skirmishes seem easy in comparison (excepting maybe a few group-pecific leutnants) and don't require much effort at team coordination (if at all), even if set to the same level and size as coparable fixed-size instances.

As for the original post, I'm really on the fence on this. I've played this game mostly solo for quite some time and well remember hating what little I saw of Angmar and the Misty Mountains (and consequently avoiding those areas on my main character until I was way overleveled), so I can understand the frustration of not getting along because of not finding groups.

On the other hand I've now (about a year along) got a ton of friends and aquaintances and finding groups for lower-level grouping areas (whether it's Nan Wathren in the North Downs, or Angmar, or the Moria instances) is actually easy since there are always people around that can pull up an appropriate level alt or two to quest with my own alts. I even have two alts with regular levelling groups that are going all the way through Middle Earth with a(n almost) full fellowship at the moment, and I know that leveling on regular landscape areas in a fellowship ends up feeling awfully bland and unchallenging quickly.

I know I enjoy my fellowship alts most when we're doing group content, whether it's Dol Dinen, Goblintown or East Angmar, and I'd hate to see that go away to make room for solo questing. There is so much contant in the 45-50 level range that is soloable (like pretty much all of Forochel and Eregion) that will easily level you through that range twice. I really hope they'll keep the (additional) group content in those areas intact, even if that leaves Angmar a less than perfect area for solo players. Misty Mountains I agree could use several more quests, so the route there could be to just add more solo quest options and leave the rest for grouping ... although, looking at what became of the giants in Evendim and the Merrevail in Moria I'm not very hopeful that will happen.

Not read many replies so sorry if my suggestion has been covered.

First of all i can sympathise with your current situation, been there myself and it can be frustrating, but i do not agree that group quests should be made soloable. This game is getting more and more solo friendly each month and its a shame. Its also showing at end game where these days the amount of players you see in instances and raids who do not have a clue how their class is meant to operate in a group situation. You should be forced to group as you level imo as it helps you learn your class and those of the classes around you, its essential.

Ok enough about my opinions onto something more useful to you.

First thing, join the Global LFF on your server, each one has one. Just spamming LFF each time you look for a group is only going to ask in the region you are in, which you rightly point out is under-populated. The global chanels span all areas and you may find that a lvl 75 has an alt in that area with the same problem as you and would relog to that alt to join you. You might also get higher level peeps offering to help to be friendly or progress deeds they may have etc.

2nd those groups quests are not essential by any stretch of the imagination. There are plenty of opportunities to gain XP without doing them. From lvls 40-50 there are Trollshaws, Misties, Angmar, Eregion, Forochel. All of which have an abundance of quests (solo and group) for you to chose from. If you have bought MM and Angmar then you should have plenty tbh. Also there are skirmishes (not sure if you get them as F2P) that can rack up a fair amount of Xp for the leveller.

3rd - Kins/Friends. You said you dont have any friends in game, try to befriend people you see on travels or in the groups you do get into, add them to friends list and when you see them online see if they would help or still need the quests. Kins are great for getting help, and you dont have to join them just for the reason of getting help. Its just an added bonus

Yes, I agree. This continued insistence on group play when your demographics is mostly solo is mind boggling. Why do they continue lock out content for a whole player base?

Is it impossible to have some sort of toggle to adjust the quests to allow for group level vs solo? One which will adjust mob stat levels accordingly without making it a faceroll for soloers and still a fight for groupers?

Originally Posted by Laweh

Is it impossible to have some sort of toggle to adjust the quests to allow for group level vs solo? One which will adjust mob stat levels accordingly without making it a faceroll for soloers and still a fight for groupers?

Like I said above, it's less about stat levels and more about encounter mechanics that just can't be handled by single players. Thus you'd have to change all encounters into pure dps races, eliminating any need for group cooperation.

Plus the differences between the classes will even make a purely solo instance encounter faceroll easy for some classes while still being next to impossible for others. Just look at the epic volume 3 book 5 solo quests, you can faceroll those with a level 70 warden in level 65 gear while many hunters have trouble getting through even fully equiped at level 75.

The way around that would be to code different instances of an encounter depending on class and group size ... which would need several times the development resources that a single encounter (tailored to the group size) takes. More resources spent on one encounter means less encounters developed at all ... and personally I'd rather see them spend the resources on developing new content.

Across all levels in the game there is more than sufficient content to allow a player to level whether through purely solo play or otherwise. Back in SoA days there were indeed parts of the game where players needed a boost because quests were scarce on the ground - especially pre-book 11. But that is now just not the case and if anything the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

A good region/area design will include a good mix of solo, small and full fellowship content to allow replayability if nothing else but to cater for all tastes. North Downs and the pre-reworked Lone Lands were great examples and I was pleased that the devs made limelight george group focussed. But the problem today is that most players are just interested in the rush to level cap, which when they get there they find that the whole point of lotro is really about the journey and not the arrival.

Originally Posted by Laweh

Yes, I agree. This continued insistence on group play when your demographics is mostly solo is mind boggling. Why do they continue lock out content for a whole player base?

Are you serious? There is only *one* zone in the whole game that can be considered group heavy. Angmar. A zone from the original game. And even there, more than half the quests in the zone are solo quests. Every other zone is designed to be run mostly, if not entirely, solo. All of the epic is solo. The newest zones go so far as to *FORCE* you to play solo at the end of almost every quest chain. And you're claiming they "continue" to lock out a whole player base??

Originally Posted by Laweh

Is it impossible to have some sort of toggle to adjust the quests to allow for group level vs solo? One which will adjust mob stat levels accordingly without making it a faceroll for soloers and still a fight for groupers?

Essentially...yes. Good group quests are about more than numbers and strengths of enemies. They require strategy and teamwork. To make a quest that can be done solo and also by a duo, a trio, or a full fellowship would require each adjustable quest to have four unique and different versions. Otherwise, what you have is a skirmish...or worse, the laughably easy "inspired greatness" (ie: Xbox game with cheat codes) style of instance. Something *nobody* (or at least, very, very few players) actually enjoy.

And if you *do* go the route of every quest (or a decent number of them) actually being four quests, will you be willing to accept 75% less new content? I doubt many players would. I suppose the other option would be a four fold increase in the dev team...but who will pay for it? I'm certainly not going to maintain my sub if it jumps to $40 a month. How many premiums will buy 4x as many Turbine points? And F2P? Well, I guess we better drop that entirely.

So yes....it pretty much is impossible.

Originally Posted by PenguinIceNinja

Timmy, there's nothing to disagree with. I've done all solo quests in Angmar (6 quest hubs) and just barely hit 47 today. It's simply a fact.

Have you done the entire Misty Mountains, including Goblin Town? Just going through Goblin Town and doing all the quests there (lots of back and forth through millions of goblins) will yield you a level or two. Have you you done the entire Volume 1? By this point you're able to do it in its entirety and that's easily 2 levels worth of quests. Skirmishes? There's plenty of options really.

Afterwards you can move on to Moria and you'll never really have this complaint again.

I loved going thru Agmar! It was challenging and fun! Maybe there's something not right with me! I took my hunter and my warden thru there solo and did many of the fellowship quests solo. You just got to strategize a bit more and use your CC skills and such when you're solo. You can't always charge into a group of baddies and kill them all...well you could depending on what you're playing.

You didn't mention what you were playing. Is your character more of a squishy like an RK or a Hunter? Or a sturdier class like a champ or warden?

If you play on Landroval, shoot me a tell or an in game mail to Reagin (my 59 warden), Searad (my 75 champ) or Joriee (my 53 mini) and my b/f and I would be happy to lend a hand. We both have lower level alts that can group with ya.

We are usually playing in the evening from 6pm to about midnight central US time.

Originally Posted by paintpixie

Frodo and Sam didn't need a full raid in Mordor.

Just sayin'....

Frodo and Sam had THE ring of power, Aragorn and Gandalf led a full raid against the Black Gates to draw out all of Sauron's forces. Sam and Frodo only had to battle a single mob (Gollum) to do Mordor...

Just sayin...



What I can't fathom in this thread is how the OP could do every solo quest in Misty Mountains and Angmar and only go from 45 to 46. I popped two levels just doing the Epic Book, Gloin's Camp and the quests out of Rivendell that were in Misty Mountains and they were all done solo. Malenhad and Gabilshathur will easily add another level or two and that's without doing Myrkworth or the Gath Forthnir quests none of which are gated and can be done solo at anytime.

I don't think it's a matter of too many group quests, I think it's more a matter of the OP not doing the solo quests that are available out there.

Eadreid above brings up a great point - networking. There's a bunch of group content you may want to experience - none mandatory, but all fun and with nice treasure. If so, you'll want to start getting out there and meeting people whom you are comfortable playing with.

You're at a level where you're starting to come across more and more group content. There are all those group quests you mention in Angmar, Goblin Town (level 47ish?), and soon, Barad Gularan/Carn Dum/Urugarth (level 50ish). Then in Moria, there are Forgotten Treasury (level 54) and the 6-instance Moria instance cluster (level 56-60ish) - not to mention the Watcher, Dar Narbugud and the turtle (level 60ish). Hop over to Mirkwood and you'll find a bunch of level 65 instances, and then there's the In Their Absence instances (also level 65). Not to mention the scalable instances in Annuminas, Great Barrows, Eregion, Fornost and Helegrod.

Remember, none of this group stuff is mandatory, but if you're interested in doing all the content, you are going to want to network, and at your level, now is the time to start if you haven't already.

IMHO, Turbine needs to separate and market the quest packs as SOLO vs GROUP/CHALLENGE zones. Create a leveling path where the player can choose quest packs based on what they want to do. Would prevent the call for nerfing group areas.

Originally Posted by Lurkerinthemist

IMHO, Turbine needs to separate and market the quest packs as SOLO vs GROUP/CHALLENGE zones. Create a leveling path where the player can choose quest packs based on what they want to do. Would prevent the call for nerfing group areas.

In my opinion, your opinion should not be so humble, as that is a phenomenally good idea. Of course, I expect there would still be a vocal set of the player base wailing about being "locked out" of certain zones due to their own choices....

But at least we could point to the rating and say "you were warned!"

+rep

Originally Posted by paintpixie

Frodo and Sam didn't need a full raid in Mordor.

Just sayin'....

And what did they do? They surely did not those Dunland-type quests: Kill twelve critters and collect ten of their hides, visit the next NPC 300 meters further and then collect half a dozen flowers while killing eight orcs. Repeat until you are bored to death.

No, they sneaked through half the map trying not to be seen for only one quest: Destroy the most powerful item you possess without fighting except for Gollum and Snaga who are signature mobs and Shelob for which one of you may use Inspired Greatness.

There are no other quests, no friendly NPCs, not even crafting materials. The landscape looks more desolate than Angmar, the Brown Lands and Nan Curunír together while one has at least four Dread. But the 'music' is fitting the region at least. I imagine everyone is going to love that .

One of the things that Turbine has to do is balance the goals of a game with the "Lore" and ideas that fell out of Tolkien's head. One of those ideas is that no one can face the darkness alone. That was the point of having a fellowship in the first place. That may be a concept that's out dated in this techie world of ours, however in a Tolkien world it still needs to be acknowledged. All in all I think Turnbine's done rather well balancing the "Can't do it alone" theme with the "I wanna be a god" attitude alot of players seem to have these days. I think there should actually be more group quests than less. What's the ratio now? Something like 1/3 fellowship quests? Yes, Angmar is heavier on the fellowship quests. As it should be. 1) It was once an endgame area, and 2) It's Friggin Angmar! It's like Mini Mordor! Scariest &&&& in Middle Earth is supposed to live there. It really sounds like someone gave the OP some bad advice. Forochel would have been my choice. You really can solo almost all of it. But even there, there's some fellowship stuff to do. For myself (I rarely group right now. Hardware reasons *and you don't like people* Shut up, Troll!!! Sorry........) I usually bounce between Forochel, Misty, Angmar and South Trollshaws to get from 40-50. (I am also easily bored which prevents me from skirming endlessly) I was of the opinion that if you are wanting to do fellowship quests, you join a kinship. isn't that the whole point of having a kin?? To get help when you need it? And if you're not getting help, then you find another kin. It may be naive of me but I thought that's just how it works. Anyway, my advice to the OP is to save up some TP and get Forochel. I've seriously bought ALL the quest packs with TP earned in game. It's so easy a caveman can do it.

Let me start by saying there should be group content. Probably as many folks like grouping as there are those that are solo artists. Both need to be represented in the content.

That said anything on the Epic story line (the books) should have a solo only option. LOTRO is very story driven and it isn't right to exclude solo players (for whatever reason they are solo) from following that story.

As for the rest of the group content (excluding the books) leave it alone.

In my experience these sorts of thread almost always devolve into a solo vs group war with each side viciously defending their preferred style out of fear that Turbine will listen to the opposite side and exclude them in a future patch. In reality there is no reason both sides of it can't coexist peacefully.

But this wasn't meant to be a solo vs group war =)

Just consider the perspective of someone who can't find said group to complete said content.

Originally Posted by PenguinIceNinja

I don't disagree that group quests have its place in a game, and one or two here and there are fine. And at one time, it was totally appropriate to have lots of group quests in Angmar/Misty Mountains because it was endgame and there was bound to be lots of people around.

But, the developers really need to take a look at changing group questing in old zones like these. I bought both Angmar and Misty Mountains, have only gotten to level 46, and have literally 10 group quests to do. Every time I log in, I do an LFF for them, and no avail. I think buying 2 quest packs for the same level range should be quite enough content to level from.

It's really killing my leveling at this point. It's not fun to log in and search for people to play with when they simply aren't around. Now that these zones are not highly-populated, the developers should alter these quests to be soloable.

Sorry, but I disagree.... as it is, the game is way too soloable already in my opinion....

Originally Posted by paintpixie

Frodo and Sam didn't need a full raid in Mordor.

Frodo and Sam also said 'screw this, you guys suck, we're out of here' after one fellowship member died fighting some trash mobs. Typical newbie Champion, always overpulling. It didn't help that the only healer had gone link dead after he died earlier on, and didn't reconnect til much later. I think they did the right thing ditching that train wreck of a group.

I'd find a kin. It's really not a bad reason to join one. It's the only real reason to join a kin. To get the help you need when you need it. And save up for Forochel

Originally Posted by PenguinIceNinja

But this wasn't meant to be a solo vs group war =)

Just consider the perspective of someone who can't find said group to complete said content.

Oh believe me I do know. I have spent a great deal of time unable to find a group to complete content because no one does most of the lower stuff anymore.

The reality though is folks with agendas will twist any thread that even remotely hints at solo vs group into their own personal soapbox for their own perspective. It is unfortunate but there it is.

My point really was with a few small concessions there is no reason both can't exist at once in a manner that solo folks are not locked out of the Epic quest line and group folks still have lots of group content. Both side however have to be willing to make some concessions. Solo folks have to concede that they will not be able to solo all content at level. Group folks will have to conceded a solo version of Epic quests. From what I have seen Turbine is trying to slowly but surely work this out. It just really will never fully satisfy the folks who are militant one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Ameranth

Frodo and Sam also said 'screw this, you guys suck, we're out of here' after one fellowship member died fighting some trash mobs. Typical newbie Champion, always overpulling. It didn't help that the only healer had gone link dead after he died earlier on, and didn't reconnect til much later. I think they did the right thing ditching that train wreck of a group.

Not that Gollum was really much of an improvement. You know he was just going after a specific piece of elite gear, and didn't care one bit for the rest of the small group.

Good fellowship members are so hard to come by these days.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjSx-1faZQ4

Just a video I've always found slightly amusing and thought was somewhat relevant here. There's also this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z7W1j2wtGI