Thread: What Burglars need in the moors right now

Originally Posted by Leonide

Burgs can no loger take 5 creeps and win therefore the class is broken?
A good burg will win any 1vs1. By far. Including wargs. The class is FAR from broken. Before u6 it was just godmode, now its just very good.

Try to play a creep and you will see how burgs are frustrating, annoying. Thae 4-5k in the &&& from a broken class? Oh yah...

Edit: burg dev diary, tactical debuf, finesse debuff and such...; like my WL would say: quit whinning and fight maggots!

this is so not true. lol do you even play the class? have you spared a decent creep?

I group with a lot of burgs on freepside and I have eyes to see.

And I also play on creepside, a WL. Burgs are monsters.

Originally Posted by Leonide

I group with a lot of burgs on freepside and I have eyes to see.

And I also play on creepside, a WL. Burgs are monsters.

Honestly, I'd say we're fairly balanced. When you get to be +r8(less if you store buy a lot of skills) it is a very close battle in the majority of my 1v1's. Burgs just prey on the lower ranks with ease, and that's probably how it's always going to be.

The burglar problem are just store stuff.

Store insigna, Store sprint, store track.

Otherwise it's balanced, but as soon as you use that stuff, the key advantage of the burglar (stun, slow, stealth), more than for other class. (along with someother 2-3 class)

burgs are not the problem in the moors, its shadow wargs that are the problem

Honestly some good points have been brought up many of which unless you have played a burglar recently with the audacity changes is extremely evident. With the changes that creeps have been given over the last couple of updates combines with audacity has killed the burglar's ability to CC. With the DR that were already in effect in the moors the audacity set did not need to nerf CC even more. Brands and stun/root pots are extremely easy to get with the new commendations system.

While I agree that burglars can bring some good utility to a raid if they have the correct legacies they now lack the survivability to prove to be useful long term. I do not care how good you are if you HiPs and are tracked 5 times after your chances of escaping are right around 1%, if you are lucky. Like someone else mentioned it makes more sense to bring along champions who can put out the same DPS, have bubbles, and wear heavy armor combined with the fact they also have several interrupt abilities, oh and did I mention the ability for massive AOEs?

Yea AOE dust and twist is great until you count in DR+Audacity which makes stuns almost non-existent. Burglars need some serious love especially considering the only way kills are made is with high burst dps, which was seriously hurt by audacity and some minor survivability.

Originally Posted by Elranduri

Honestly some good points have been brought up many of which unless you have played a burglar recently with the audacity changes is extremely evident. With the changes that creeps have been given over the last couple of updates combines with audacity has killed the burglar's ability to CC. With the DR that were already in effect in the moors the audacity set did not need to nerf CC even more. Brands and stun/root pots are extremely easy to get with the new commendations system.

While I agree that burglars can bring some good utility to a raid if they have the correct legacies they now lack the survivability to prove to be useful long term. I do not care how good you are if you HiPs and are tracked 5 times after your chances of escaping are right around 1%, if you are lucky. Like someone else mentioned it makes more sense to bring along champions who can put out the same DPS, have bubbles, and wear heavy armor combined with the fact they also have several interrupt abilities, oh and did I mention the ability for massive AOEs?

Yea AOE dust and twist is great until you count in DR+Audacity which makes stuns almost non-existent. Burglars need some serious love especially considering the only way kills are made is with high burst dps, which was seriously hurt by audacity and some minor survivability.

+rep
well put.

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

I never said you were totally wrong, just exaggerating and being over dramatic about it.

Man i totally agree with you. It is ridiculous the fact that they can buy tracks with coins and track us right away after we hips, we should get like a 10s "untrackable" buff after it. Touch and go its useless and 10s for knieves out its nothing. A r10+ wargs can pretty much zerg you, and if you try to escape they will track you down. The only use i find for cc now its to avoid creeps from running away. Something should be done and I didnt see anything good on RoR for PvP burglars. We're essentially a dmg-cc class and thats exactly what audacity took away from us.
Good luck on killing any wargs now with a non-traited 5min cd sprint/hips.

Originally Posted by Bugahealer

Man i totally agree with you. It is ridiculous the fact that they can buy tracks with coins and track us right away after we hips, we should get like a 10s "untrackable" buff after it. Touch and go its useless and 10s for knieves out its nothing. A r10+ wargs can pretty much zerg you, and if you try to escape they will track you down. The only use i find for cc now its to avoid creeps from running away. Something should be done and I didnt see anything good on RoR for PvP burglars. We're essentially a dmg-cc class and thats exactly what audacity took away from us.
Good luck on killing any wargs now with a non-traited 5min cd sprint/hips.

Agreed with everything....im a pvp player, im not going to pay vip anymore to play burglar..

I've been seeing alot of QQing recently in the forums about the 'moors.

Funny how people on low population servers feel like everything is ok. Killing low rank monsters without audacity, or simply gank Xvs1 in burglar groups yeah that was funny ....5 years ago. Wish you could expirience what it means to play on a high population server.

some improvements we need:


regarding mobility:
- a skill to remove snare effects
or
- a stronger ranged snare(consumable weapon usable in the moors for example)
or
- some kind of snare immunity after skill use(i suggest free fall)
or
- in combat sprint(seriously i don't need an imbalanced sprint like champions have, 10s would be more than enough on a low cooldown)
or
- run speed buff after skill use(something like guardians "for the king", which will buff running speed for 10-15% for a short period of time, i suggest double edged blade)
or
- attack range legacy like guardians have(they actually have the legacy + sprint oO)

regarding group play:
- we simply don't offer anything special to a fellowship or raid apart from dps. hunters and champions are by far the better single target dps option in any moors fellowship or raid. thats not because of their dps but because the fact that hunters are ranged and can't be kited and champions because they have in combat sprint so they can't be kited AND they are really really tanky with their bubbles. played in moors raids for 5 years and there is simply no reason to bring a burg which will die instantly when focussed and which will do a lot less damage then champions and hunters because they are slowed all the time. to make burglars a good option in raids we need a) mobilty --> see above or b) debuffing should make a huge difference. LM debuffs are very strong so i doubt they will buff burglar debuffs, this would be too OP. So even if we are alot squishier than champions it would be very kind of the devs if we could pull out some damage instead of being kited 24/7 with 20 dots.

- someone suggested to make knives out a fellowship buff. not too op because of the short duration. same goes for t&g. it would be awesome to give the buff someone in my fellowhip instead of me. no target = i will get the buff; target = target will get the buff. same goes for hips, it would be awesome if i could hips someone away who gets focus fired. those are some examples of skills which every fellowship would miss without a burglar.


there are so much things which could be improved and even implementing just a few of them would really help.

I was hoping for a bit more of a mature response to this thread but all I seem to have gotten are self-righteous burgs from low-population servers saying the class is fine, and people with creeps as their mains saying burgs are still OP. And people saying "learn to play the class and you'll be fine." And I do believe someone tried to say i'm not rank 8. Lol. Totally irrelevant. I've transferred to Elendilmir and my signature still hasn't updated to say that, so obviously it didn't update my rank or rating either.

I'm sorry, but Arnomion was probably the best burg on Brandywine before update 6, and widely known as such. Not to brag, but I was known as one of the better burglars on the server as well before I transferred, so don't be so quick to pull the "The class isn't broken, you're just bad" card.
I still get kills when things go my way and I jump a creep at the right time, I just can't do much if there's more than one high rank.

None of us arguing on my side are saying the class needs to be god-mode, and none of the changes I think Burglars need are that huge. I'm not sitting here saying we need something like a Warden's Defiant challenge where we're invincible for 30 seconds or anything like that. We just need ways to cope with Audacity, which hit the class very hard. I don't think any of the things I listed are unreasonable changes to ask for. We even got a few of them with the burg dev diary for RoR. That -10% tactical damage on addle is exactly the kind of tactical debuff I was suggesting, and the second way to apply a debuffing gamble is gonna be great. The only other thing I think burgs need is some kind of small heal on skill usage, or what I suggested with giving Reveal weakness a small return on morale when you damage the target that has it.



And let me tell you, PvP doesn't get more zerg-y or brutal than Brandywine or Elendilmir. I've freep'ed and creeped on several servers and they're the worst i've seen.


Creeps can whine and complain about a burg being able to pop a skill with a 30 second duration and a 5 minute cooldown and kill 2-5 creeps at once because of it, but that's the kind of utility that the class needs in the moors because as I said, 90% of the time we're forced to solo.

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

Creeps can whine and complain about a burg being able to pop a skill with a 30 second duration and a 5 minute cooldown and kill 2-5 creeps at once because of it, but that's the kind of utility that the class needs in the moors because as I said, 90% of the time we're forced to solo.

So you want an "I-win" button that allows you to kill 2-5 creeps? Do you actually really wonder why people don't take your whining serious? And btw, the best burgs are still solo and can kill creeps of every rank.

Did I not just say that I solo and can kill creeps of every rank?

after writing in this thread champion dev diary was released:

- “Combat Effect Duration” Legacy has been replaced with “+Targeted Melee Range” Legacy.


lol turbine, even more mobility for champs.

Originally Posted by gorma_eu

Funny how people on low population servers feel like everything is ok. Killing low rank monsters without audacity, or simply gank Xvs1 in burglar groups yeah that was funny ....5 years ago. Wish you could expirience what it means to play on a high population server.

some improvements we need:


regarding mobility:
- a skill to remove snare effects
or
- a stronger ranged snare(consumable weapon usable in the moors for example)
or
- some kind of snare immunity after skill use(i suggest free fall)
or
- in combat sprint(seriously i don't need an imbalanced sprint like champions have, 10s would be more than enough on a low cooldown)
or
- run speed buff after skill use(something like guardians "for the king", which will buff running speed for 10-15% for a short period of time, i suggest double edged blade)
or
- attack range legacy like guardians have(they actually have the legacy + sprint oO)

regarding group play:
- we simply don't offer anything special to a fellowship or raid apart from dps. hunters and champions are by far the better single target dps option in any moors fellowship or raid. thats not because of their dps but because the fact that hunters are ranged and can't be kited and champions because they have in combat sprint so they can't be kited AND they are really really tanky with their bubbles. played in moors raids for 5 years and there is simply no reason to bring a burg which will die instantly when focussed and which will do a lot less damage then champions and hunters because they are slowed all the time. to make burglars a good option in raids we need a) mobilty --> see above or b) debuffing should make a huge difference. LM debuffs are very strong so i doubt they will buff burglar debuffs, this would be too OP. So even if we are alot squishier than champions it would be very kind of the devs if we could pull out some damage instead of being kited 24/7 with 20 dots.

- someone suggested to make knives out a fellowship buff. not too op because of the short duration. same goes for t&g. it would be awesome to give the buff someone in my fellowhip instead of me. no target = i will get the buff; target = target will get the buff. same goes for hips, it would be awesome if i could hips someone away who gets focus fired. those are some examples of skills which every fellowship would miss without a burglar.


there are so much things which could be improved and even implementing just a few of them would really help.

I don't know about Riddermark but trust me, it's THE SAME on Vilya a small server

I almost want to play along, farm a 2.0 rating so I look 'good on paper' then make a post - "what are you people talking about, I get 6K renown a day fighting 5 wargs at one time and killing all may'be one sprints away then I rush into a craid solo and kill the leader, hips out before creeps can do anything...you just gotta know burg class or play something else or another game" Posts like that make me wonder if the people writing them did it at one sitting or were falling out of their chair laughing to themselves "I wonder who's gullible enough to believe this?"

Originally Posted by Dragnipurake

So you want an "I-win" button that allows you to kill 2-5 creeps? Do you actually really wonder why people don't take your whining serious? And btw, the best burgs are still solo and can kill creeps of every rank.

and they can do it with 3rd ages, 10s for virtues and no audacity wearing MoM armor.......Oh Yeaaaaaaaaaaaahh


for all of you who can't you suck, so just shut your mouths, get farmed and take it like a good boy and if you can't handle that go play another class or another game...

On a side note, I've got some gorgeous homes in Detroit I'm offering for the low low price of $250K
One time deal, someone else will snatch em up if you don't buy now

ok i know someone said not to bring the l2p card out, but *lays cards on the table*

just because your on brandy or E doesnt mean the conditions are different from burgs on small servers, u still face the same problems, only differenece is the ones from e and brandy come to QQ on the forums.

ive checked out many servers, just about all of them, ive heard from transfers, and people on brandy and E that the burgs there are worse than most,

and i have a theory as to why that is (granted just a theory) the servers are so big u cant actually learn to play your class efficiently, you cant finish a 1v1 because your getting tracked by another person, you know a raid is near so you will be sloppy and rush through trying to kill someone and make mistakes, you get zerged and that doesnt help you learn to play.

argue with me or not, ive experienced, talked to a lot of people, and seen much more than i need to to know it isnt false.

smaller servers are more beneficial because u can actually have a 1v1, you wont get zerged all the time, its asmall comunity so you can ask the creep for advice if you lose, and actually get it, not just a "u fail l2p" statement.

so maybe all the burgs who think that the class is in a bad place, change something about the way you play dont QQ, the moors is no longer about high burst dps, it is about surviving to kill, if you still play the way you did before u6, your doing it wrong.

sorry for the wall of text... if your read this far.

I have to wonder why you'd think you're forced to solo. On my server it's not too rare for some of the newer burgs to join up in burg packs to better be able to counter the warg packs. A burg pack is amazingly efficient if you can stick together and coordinate an attack.

What you're saying sounds pretty accurate to me. I like your little suggestions list too

Originally Posted by Macgregor1821

I don't know about Riddermark but trust me, it's THE SAME on Vilya a small server

I almost want to play along, farm a 2.0 rating so I look 'good on paper' then make a post - "what are you people talking about, I get 6K renown a day fighting 5 wargs at one time and killing all may'be one sprints away then I rush into a craid solo and kill the leader, hips out before creeps can do anything...you just gotta know burg class or play something else or another game" Posts like that make me wonder if the people writing them did it at one sitting or were falling out of their chair laughing to themselves "I wonder who's gullible enough to believe this?"

pretty much enjoyed reading this :>

Originally Posted by Dawnsinger

I have to wonder why you'd think you're forced to solo. On my server it's not too rare for some of the newer burgs to join up in burg packs to better be able to counter the warg packs. A burg pack is amazingly efficient if you can stick together and coordinate an attack.

Because it's an unbelievable lame playstyle, not everyone has fun being a griefplayer.

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

I just can't do much if there's more than one high rank.

That are both attacking you? I've never understood why some like yourself and ifreborn believe that this indicates a "broken" condition. Why on earth do you think prevailing against two ranked creeps would be "working as intended"? Think my hunter can survive with 2 ranked creeps on them? Or a champ?

As others have suggested, yes the days of soloing with impunity are over for burgs. And if you're in a group and are the zerg's current target? Yeah, you're probably going to die.

That said, I do think store bought trackers and skills are a big distortion.

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

I still get kills when things go my way and I jump a creep at the right time, I just can't do much if there's more than one high rank. None of us arguing on my side are saying the class needs to be god-mode

...

Creeps can whine and complain about a burg being able to pop a skill with a 30 second duration and a 5 minute cooldown and kill 2-5 creeps at once because of it, but that's the kind of utility that the class needs in the moors because as I said, 90% of the time we're forced to solo.

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

Did I not just say that I solo and can kill creeps of every rank?

- You can solo kill creeps of any rank - check

- You can touch and go and kill 2-5 low ranked creeps solo - check

- You have trouble getting a solo kill vs multiple high ranked creeps - check

This is my experience as well... What is the problem?

It sounds to me like you DO know how to play the class but your expectations are too high.

Asking to be able to kill more than 1 high rank creep solo IS sorta asking to be god-mode.

If you stealth up on more than 1 high ranked creep you should think "Not a good fight. Move on."

You shouldn't think "If the devs would only fix this broken class I could kill all of em!"

----------------------
Store trackers ARE a problem

Crumbling Brands are a Pathetic problem

Unrealisitic PvP expectations from watching broken classes like minis and wardens kill multiple high ranked creeps solo is also a problem

Originally Posted by Leonide

Burgs can no loger take 5 creeps and win therefore the class is broken?
A good burg will win any 1vs1. By far. Including wargs. The class is FAR from broken. Before u6 it was just godmode, now its just very good.

Try to play a creep and you will see how burgs are frustrating, annoying. Thae 4-5k in the &&& from a broken class? Oh yah...

Edit: burg dev diary, tactical debuf, finesse debuff and such...; like my WL would say: quit whinning and fight maggots!

This has been the theme for the last year in response "a good burg" implying if you have a problem, it's you, not the game and therefore either get better, play another class, yes we need more minis/hunters etc in the moors! or leave the game.

Well I'll play along, lets say anyone who has an issue with their burg sucks. How many "GOOD" burgs are there on any given server. If you look at blackappendage stats, only warden is played less in the moors. So should there only be that 1 or 2 "GOOD" burgs roaming the moors and people see them and go "oh my, it's him run!"?

These comments of, "oh you just want to faceroll 10 creeps while button mashing" are comical. Yes, that's what these people want, just click of a button and down they go, I mean that's why anyone rolls a class right? To be in godmode and have no skill whatsoever, just clickty click click click.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...06#post6333006

Hai guize!!!!


Nugg is coming soon to a moors near you!

(((( D3 was a fun distraction but overall its a joke ))))



btw as per this thread....

*Availability of CC pots and the double whammy CC reduction.... (audacity/Diminishing Returns)
I mez/cj target, they root pot to break mez and still have stun pot available, or stun pot to break cj (cj stun length against r7 aud creep is a joke, 2-3 seconds at most? on my creep i just eat the stun, its that pathetic.)
THEN i twist target! twist is cut in half by aud, then in half again by DR... 8 sec stun becomes 2sec stun, and now said creep is immune to CC rest of the fight (provided its shorter then 45 seconds)...

*Shadow wargs, i'm ok with, but revamp TnG and FF, make it a shorter duration buff if you have to (im even ok with 10-15 seconds), but for christ sake give us back the evade against the shadow wargs... or even ba's VT jk lol not necessary.

*less harping about who is/was the best burg on the server, we all know ifreborn owns the title..... kthxbye.

<3! <3!

missed you all!

Originally Posted by Mystarr

- You can solo kill creeps of any rank - check

- You can touch and go and kill 2-5 low ranked creeps solo - check

- You have trouble getting a solo kill vs multiple high ranked creeps - check

This is my experience as well... What is the problem?

It sounds to me like you DO know how to play the class but your expectations are too high.

Asking to be able to kill more than 1 high rank creep solo IS sorta asking to be god-mode.

If you stealth up on more than 1 high ranked creep you should think "Not a good fight. Move on."

You shouldn't think "If the devs would only fix this broken class I could kill all of em!"

----------------------
Store trackers ARE a problem

Crumbling Brands are a Pathetic problem

Unrealisitic PvP expectations from watching broken classes like minis and wardens kill multiple high ranked creeps solo is also a problem

dude you cant kill ranked creeps of any class on a burg any more. I can on my rk but not my burg.


maybe you need to find a better server. you are just 2 good for yours.

I don't belive burglars are in such a bad place currently. but i'd like to see some improvments to TnG (pretty much useless against anything else then npcs), and i'd love to see a change with knives out to maybe affect ranged/tactical too?, and a % increase to chance of getting power with glee.

Also the kiting from creeps now are insane(especially with the broken pot), and honestly the ba slow is too much. Also on my server there is usually hundreds of wargs making it impossible to play since they'll kite you and track you to dead.

Looking at the current update coming with RoR is honestly just sad. We get all this stuff that are upper &&&&/useless (except addle tac debuff). At this point i don't really see why it would be worth lvling to 85 with RoR with zero new skills, one skill that is actually *improved* and zero upgrade in morale.

Creeps get new skills, better damage and whatnot. We may not have it utterly &&&& now but i have a feeling that we will when RoR hit live if somethings aren't changed. I'd love to see something that actually make us able to close up the gap with kiters.

And maybe rise the % in find footing healing than currently coming with RoR i also support the idea of a melee targetted range legacy, if champs/grds get it i don't see why burgs can't. blend trick range with melee range. think that would help tremendously against slows and such.

P.S: i'd also like to see something that gives something more then reveal weakness/CD to raid, this two skills are the only reason we currently are allowed into raiding. Giving us something more for raiding/grping be nice. And for godsake rise the morale after 10 levels. was really dissapointed that morale was roughly the same from 65-75 and i believe it will be so after RoR while creeps and npcs morale keep rising. pretty sure i can kill myself soon just by hitting a defiler/reaver with blood of fire without they using any skills.

I am not saying burglars need love; but you people saying you have no problems 1v1 against spiders without CDs are liars.
A r10+ spider with r7 audacity has about a 5% chance of losing to a burglar using all its skills.

Started going to the Moors two days ago. Now Im on rank 3. With +0 audacity im really squishy and I have to rely on TnG/Find Footing/HiPS a lot but in 1v1 I can fairly defeat most high rank creeps. Killed some high rank wargs even if they ambushed me, spiders or blackarrows. Without any of the major survivability skills I am pretty much doomed to die if fighting a high rank creep or a group of creeps generally.
But I find nothing wrong on this, low rank creeps do much worse and high rank creeps die much the same in group of freeps as me in group of creeps. Yeah warden, guards can survive in group of 6 or 7 creeps for some time and then run away practically unharmed if needed, but I at least can kill things quickly. I find nothing wrong here.

Originally Posted by Nytshade617

I am not saying burglars need love; but you people saying you have no problems 1v1 against spiders without CDs are liars.
A r10+ spider with r7 audacity has about a 5% chance of losing to a burglar using all its skills.

Depends. If I have the slteath advantage I do a surprise strike hitting over 4K to r7+ spiders. Following a crit chain, the spider is under half morale within a second. They usually hide in the ground after this. Never fought a r10+ spider though.

Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ

Started going to the Moors two days ago. Now Im on rank 3. With +0 audacity im really squishy and I have to rely on TnG/Find Footing/HiPS a lot but in 1v1 I can fairly defeat most high rank creeps. Killed some high rank wargs even if they ambushed me, spiders or blackarrows. Without any of the major survivability skills I am pretty much doomed to die if fighting a high rank creep or a group of creeps generally.
But I find nothing wrong on this, low rank creeps do much worse and high rank creeps die much the same in group of freeps as me in group of creeps. Yeah warden, guards can survive in group of 6 or 7 creeps for some time and then run away practically unharmed if needed, but I at least can kill things quickly. I find nothing wrong here.



Depends. If I have the slteath advantage I do a surprise strike hitting over 4K to r7+ spiders. Following a crit chain, the spider is under half morale within a second. They usually hide in the ground after this. Never fought a r10+ spider though.

I call shennanigans. Rank 7 spider, with no audactiy also.. you might squeeze a 4k SS out on.. but the whole point of audacity was to reduce dmg.. so if your rank 7 spider has max audacity.. you are not doing 4k SStrikes, especially when you have 1 audacity(total base being 1)(I meant in regards to surviving). are you quoting u6 figures lol?

Nontheless I retract my statement, I did run some numbers and you can hit high rankers with max audacity for those types of numbers

Originally Posted by Nytshade617

I am not saying burglars need love; but you people saying you have no problems 1v1 against spiders without CDs are liars.
A r10+ spider with r7 audacity has about a 5% chance of losing to a burglar using all its skills.

/signed. a good spider is almost impossible. mostly cause when he got like 1k morale he burrows and get full morale again, not to mention brand when coming up again.

Originally Posted by Pasoth

I call shennanigans. Rank 7 spider, with no audactiy also.. you might squeeze a 4k SS out on.. but the whole point of audacity was to reduce dmg.. so if your rank 7 spider has max audacity.. you are not doing 4k SStrikes, especially when you have 1 audacity(total base being 1). are you quoting u6 figures lol?

Why wouldnt I hit 4K with 1 audacity? Audacity affects incoming dmg, not outgoing. I do 6K hits to some low rank creeps with low audacity. I did 3,8K to a r10 warg today - he definitely has max audacity. The thing I use and most burg dont is sweep the leg legendary trait. In combination with dinhigil I do aimed trip before SS which gives me another +10% pos. dmg and 20% crit. multiplier to the SS.

Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ

Started going to the Moors two days ago. Now Im on rank 3. With +0 audacity im really squishy and I have to rely on TnG/Find Footing/HiPS a lot but in 1v1 I can fairly defeat most high rank creeps. Killed some high rank wargs even if they ambushed me, spiders or blackarrows. Without any of the major survivability skills I am pretty much doomed to die if fighting a high rank creep or a group of creeps generally.
But I find nothing wrong on this, low rank creeps do much worse and high rank creeps die much the same in group of freeps as me in group of creeps. Yeah warden, guards can survive in group of 6 or 7 creeps for some time and then run away practically unharmed if needed, but I at least can kill things quickly. I find nothing wrong here.



Depends. If I have the slteath advantage I do a surprise strike hitting over 4K to r7+ spiders. Following a crit chain, the spider is under half morale within a second. They usually hide in the ground after this. Never fought a r10+ spider though.

I do 10,000 damage SS and the spider of any rank with any audacity dies with 1 hit in less than a second. I do 5 hits each of 20,000K damage to flayer wargs and they die in 1 sec too.

I typed this in a forum, so it must be true.

Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ

but I at least can kill things quickly

Trust me, i've got a r8 Reaver, r8 Blackarrow and r8 Warg and with any of those it's easy to figure out how to avoid fighting a burg or even to win. Its just a matter of knowing your pots, knowing how burg CC works. If you succesfully burst high ranked creeps out of a group its because of a) someone doesn't care to die or b) he is a bad or unexpirienced player or has cooldowns on some essential skills/pots. And those situations will let you pop out CDs, what are you doing in between? And I don't think that being competitive to bad or inexpirienced players is what anyone is looking for in the long run.
We are not short of damage, we are short of mobility, its way too easy to kite burglars.

And yes Spiders are very strong but i don't care, they are hard to rank and not easy to play. It's ok to have enemies which you can't beat. Although bad spiders even high ranked are possible to kill.

Originally Posted by Macgregor1821

I do 10,000 damage SS and the spider of any rank with any audacity dies with 1 hit in less than a second. I do 5 hits each of 20,000K damage to flayer wargs and they die in 1 sec too.

I typed this in a forum, so it must be true.

Noob, my lvl 40 burg alt hits harder.

I don't really think burgs need all that much help at the moment. I do miss the old days before audacity when I didn't have to pve so much to be decent, but that's just because I'm lazy and don't really have a good raiding schedule. The only problem I have with burgs right now is getting tracked so many times. I wish turbine could see how many times I get tracked in a minute then they might have some sympathy for us cuz it's pretty ridiculous how much these store trackers affect us.

if you have played this class for a long time you can understand this

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

I was hoping for a bit more of a mature response to this thread but all I seem to have gotten are self-righteous burgs from low-population servers saying the class is fine, and people with creeps as their mains saying burgs are still OP. And people saying "learn to play the class and you'll be fine." And I do believe someone tried to say i'm not rank 8. Lol. Totally irrelevant. I've transferred to Elendilmir and my signature still hasn't updated to say that, so obviously it didn't update my rank or rating either.

I'm sorry, but Arnomion was probably the best burg on Brandywine before update 6, and widely known as such. Not to brag, but I was known as one of the better burglars on the server as well before I transferred, so don't be so quick to pull the "The class isn't broken, you're just bad" card.
I still get kills when things go my way and I jump a creep at the right time, I just can't do much if there's more than one high rank.

None of us arguing on my side are saying the class needs to be god-mode, and none of the changes I think Burglars need are that huge. I'm not sitting here saying we need something like a Warden's Defiant challenge where we're invincible for 30 seconds or anything like that. We just need ways to cope with Audacity, which hit the class very hard. I don't think any of the things I listed are unreasonable changes to ask for. We even got a few of them with the burg dev diary for RoR. That -10% tactical damage on addle is exactly the kind of tactical debuff I was suggesting, and the second way to apply a debuffing gamble is gonna be great. The only other thing I think burgs need is some kind of small heal on skill usage, or what I suggested with giving Reveal weakness a small return on morale when you damage the target that has it.



And let me tell you, PvP doesn't get more zerg-y or brutal than Brandywine or Elendilmir. I've freep'ed and creeped on several servers and they're the worst i've seen.


Creeps can whine and complain about a burg being able to pop a skill with a 30 second duration and a 5 minute cooldown and kill 2-5 creeps at once because of it, but that's the kind of utility that the class needs in the moors because as I said, 90% of the time we're forced to solo.

I think all the points you have made are quite valid and sensible . The law of DR , audacity and the silly boost to wargs has killed our main skill area ie stun , get in fast and kill fast , get out under stealth and move to another area.

i occasionally take my burg into the moors these days , its not really fun anymore as the explosion of people playing warg due to their ridiculous upgrade by the burg haters at Turbine make the experience "irritating" .

We are a declining class as Ive said before , I will not be surprised to see that remain like this for some time as the Burg developer must have either been fired or has just lost interest too !