Thread: What Burglars need in the moors right now

Originally Posted by wakeandbacon

says the ridiculously OP mini lol, credibility fail

That's one of the most stupid refutes ever.

Originally Posted by Mrblowitbytheoz

I've played on every American server. And let me tell you, the creeps of Meneldor are a huge joke. I stopped playing because there was no challenge beating down on clueless kids all day. If these BW burgs came to your server you'd probably transfer. Include Sload and Elem in that mix as well.

ha ha, ha ha ha -_-

Originally Posted by MrJaZn

This reminds me a little bit of the problems Wardens had before where the majority of that community could not perform their roles as well as guards. The great players made Wardens look like they could be taken on every run and tank well. The average or less than average players made Wardens look like a complete fail tank class. They got a buff that I personally think they needed and now average players look pretty amazing on the Warden.

Good players on a Burglar can function fine and participate in the Moors and PvE raiding perfectly fine if not great. Average players or less than average players are having a little bit of difficulty and can't faceroll easymode everything in sight without thinking so they claim there is something significantly wrong with the class. Right now I don't believe the situation is anywhere close to as bad as the Warden one seemed and I don't want the Burglar to be reworked into godmode. I think the disagreement might even lie between our different opinions of what is "winning" in the Moors. My definition would be getting 1 or 2 kills per death. I feel like alot of people think "winning" is 100 k/d ratio.

tl;dr - Sure it's tougher now out there. Quit crying and learn to play better or go roll a Champ/Minstrel/Warden. Every class isn't for everyone so this just might not be the one for you at this time. Come back in a year when it's our turn to be super godmode.



Yeah, I don't believe much of this. If you knew the fullest extent of the class, you'd be doing alright in the Moors. I don't see a R7 a4 warg beating "great players" unless those afk RK's count.

I know this post comes out as most of you are pretty bad and doing it wrong, and I'm doing good out there so I'm awesome. I just can't keep my mouth shut anymore. For the record, I don't think I'm very good at this class but with the amount of in my opinion average players, it makes some of us look pretty amazing.

QFT.



woooooooooooooooo

Originally Posted by veiledcham

QFT.



woooooooooooooooo

your right in a way, great players can still seem above average on the burg if they play smart. however on my r8 warg i have been destroying every burg i come across, and its not even a fair fight!
that being said i got my burg too 2k before retiring him until they fix the class, yes i could still get by the way it is but meh ill just play my warg and have more fun

This thread has been something I've referred to often. good stuff

I notice that noone has posted anything about spiders pets, following burglars through thier HIPS....

Fighting a spider is already frustrating enough. Am I the only one that hasn't figured out something obvious about these little buggers?

Originally Posted by swellrif

This thread has been something I've referred to often. good stuff

I notice that noone has posted anything about spiders pets, following burglars through thier HIPS....

Fighting a spider is already frustrating enough. Am I the only one that hasn't figured out something obvious about these little buggers?

This is annoying and a little hard to track down. Sometimes spider pets follw through hips and sometimes they dont. I have also occasionaly had problems with NPC like trolls following me after I hips in the moors. My current guess is that it a timing issue. Something like if you hips right around the time the spider pet is about to use one of its attack skills then it keeps following you trying to finish the skill usage. (I noticed one time that when my spider pet was following a burg after hips my combat log kept getting periodic messages about the pet using one of its attack skills.)

While changes to TnG and Knives Out are desperately needed most of the problem regarding the burg right now is that we have no real effective slow or gap closer. Any creep r5 or high can kite kill the burg by keeping slows applied and keep damaging until the burg is dead or has to use escape cool downs. Many of the better creeps have already learned this on BW and will do this against burgs. The only chance you have of getting a kill is to pop a brand before hand or use HiPs offensively. Yet, this does not work that well because of the 10 minute CD on HiPs.

While store trackers and pots seriously hurt the burgs ability to survive in the moors some sort of movement speed increase would go a long ways towards helping the burg in the moors.

Originally Posted by Elranduri

While changes to TnG and Knives Out are desperately needed most of the problem regarding the burg right now is that we have no real effective slow or gap closer. Any creep r5 or high can kite kill the burg by keeping slows applied and keep damaging until the burg is dead or has to use escape cool downs. Many of the better creeps have already learned this on BW and will do this against burgs. The only chance you have of getting a kill is to pop a brand before hand or use HiPs offensively. Yet, this does not work that well because of the 10 minute CD on HiPs.

While store trackers and pots seriously hurt the burgs ability to survive in the moors some sort of movement speed increase would go a long ways towards helping the burg in the moors.

now imagine how things will be with the (honestly deserved) buffs to creeps in ror. but those eternal terrybad creeps will get farmed like in SOA and insist on the burg being OP XD

Originally Posted by dantheman865301

Yeah, I have to disagree. I have my R11 burglar with full aud who I know how to play to the fullest extent of the class. I also have a R7 warg with 4 aud. I log on my burglar, and log out of frustration in 10 minutes. I log on my warg, and I rake in points. I hold my own against great players with nearly no thought put into traits, and not even all R5+ skills. If I get the jump on something on warg I'll usually win without my opponent making several bad mistakes, unless it's a completely geared good player. Burglar? I just try to not log on to cope.

The onset of audacity and especially the shadow stance mean it is actually easier to survive on a low rank warg (mines almost R6 with 1 audacity) than it is on my R8 Burg with 5 audacity.

Now don't even mention the ability to track everyone (stealthed and all) every min...
AND... run speed my warg is cruising at about 130% stealthed (fully traited and with perks 5% buff)
My burg i can get to 105% with 10% coffee.

That is a massive difference. And lets face it 1V1s and small group fights are ALL about SLOWS if you are moving faster you have a significant advantage!!!

Originally Posted by Elranduri

While changes to TnG and Knives Out are desperately needed most of the problem regarding the burg right now is that we have no real effective slow or gap closer. Any creep r5 or high can kite kill the burg by keeping slows applied and keep damaging until the burg is dead or has to use escape cool downs. Many of the better creeps have already learned this on BW and will do this against burgs. The only chance you have of getting a kill is to pop a brand before hand or use HiPs offensively. Yet, this does not work that well because of the 10 minute CD on HiPs.

While store trackers and pots seriously hurt the burgs ability to survive in the moors some sort of movement speed increase would go a long ways towards helping the burg in the moors.

^^^^THIS^^^^

I have just read up the list a bit... seems i'm not the only one who is concerned about speed...

Originally Posted by sebo2yoface

L2p man...

my burglar is so op in the moors i have to hold back on 1v1s

Originally Posted by Mrblowitbytheoz

I've played on every American server. And let me tell you, the creeps of Meneldor are a huge joke. I stopped playing because there was no challenge beating down on clueless kids all day. If these BW burgs came to your server you'd probably transfer. Include Sload and Elem in that mix as well.

Who was your character on Meneldor and when did you play there?

Time period is important. Good creeps have come and gone and come and gone and, currently, come back.

RoR is going to really hurt the soloers out there regardless of class. The buffs from holding OPs will be hard to overcome if you're on the wrong side of the map, especially for an already marginalized class like the burglar. By marginalized I don't mean we can't kill anything or that we are significantly underpowered. I mean that we are generally a solo class in the moors with limited usefulness in a raid (again, doesn't mean we can't get into raids, just that our usefulness is somewhat lacking).

I would like to see ways of making the burglar more useful in groups/raids.

We will always be able to take down the unskilled creeps, but that just makes us bottom feeders. I can't imagine trying to take down a skilled weaver or BA (or any creep for that matter) with outpost buffs in RoR. Even in a group setting we won't be doing much to them as we get kited around and focus fired.

Out of all of the classes I believe the RoR changes hurt the burg the most.

Originally Posted by hall9003

RoR is going to really hurt the soloers

Out of all of the classes I believe the RoR changes hurt the burg the most.

YUP just like audacity hurt burgs the most, right now the class is in a downward spiral and the devs are looking the other way

Originally Posted by hall9003

I would like to see ways of making the burglar more useful in groups/raids.

I hate to say this but I will actually be considering a 5MM build for group/raid PvMP in RoR.

Group wide removal of all poison dots on a 20s cd will be nice vs weavers.

4 Target mez/stun with a big 2 min finesse debuff might be nice (traited confound)

The ability to apply dust in the eyes with 1 minute duration to an entire creep raid in seconds might be worth trying out (0 cd on tricks)

Traited enrage the snot out of BAs (I believe this shuts down their high damage attacks like revenge and headshot)

30s ranged root on a 15s cd with a different diminishing returns timer from our stuns and mezs

It ALMOST sounds playable... MAYBE....

Originally Posted by Mystarr

I hate to say this but I will actually be considering a 5MM build for group/raid PvMP in RoR.

Group wide removal of all poison dots on a 20s cd will be nice vs weavers.

4 Target mez/stun with a big 2 min finesse debuff might be nice (traited confound)

The ability to apply dust in the eyes with 1 minute duration to an entire creep raid in seconds might be worth trying out (0 cd on tricks)

Traited enrage the snot out of BAs (I believe this shuts down their high damage attacks like revenge and headshot)

30s ranged root on a 15s cd with a different diminishing returns timer from our stuns and mezs

It ALMOST sounds playable... MAYBE....

I already was trying it. And you have right in every point. Problem is without stealth (=MM) we dying in second. Maybe switching stance after Snag will change it somehow :/

Originally Posted by Cliford

I already was trying it. And you have right in every point. Problem is without stealth (=MM) we dying in second. Maybe switching stance after Snag will change it somehow :/

That is the biggest problem right now once out of stealth our survivability is seriously lacking on all fronts against ranked creeps. We have no bubble, KO only works against melee and is not that effective, TnG is useless as it stands now. HiPs is on a 10 minute cool down making it only effective for one run.

a burg is like playing the old warg class. you can actually die

sucks huh

:P

BTW: burgs are awesome in raids

Originally Posted by IGolbezI

a burg is like playing the old warg class. you can actually die

sucks huh

:P

BTW: burgs are awesome in raids

I love argumantation. Warg in past was bad, so burg should be now! Yea! Lets hit burg for all what devs done to wargs! :/

Add a third attack on Flashing blades so the animation actually fits the skill.

BAM! were OP now

I gave up seriously playing my burg as after the introduction of audacity our main purpose ie cc was taken away . Our developer should have been sacked ages ago if they haven't already . The new proposed changes are simply piecemeal . Who ever used confound ? Why the obsession with mischief ? Give us back the skills we used the most and made us feared throughout , stop tracking in pvmp what's the use of stealth for a stealth class when every clown creep can track you ? How absurd is that ?

What is the ultimate purpose behind all of this , reduce the numbers of burgs ? Well guess what Turbine check you stats , well done you have succeeded. It's sad but obvious that the conspiracy comes from the warg developer , sack them as well as they have ruined the moors .

i kill wargs like a fat kid with a 100$ bill in a candy store puts down candy.

so you cant 3hit kill something, aud took away one hitter quitters, i say it made fights epic.

here are some tips for those that complain about ko getting nerfed.

when you pop glee throw on +inc healing items first, glee then swap back. takes X quick button clicks. can really improve your heal.

i run 5 pieces of the dev suit, get my dev crit up, swap to 3 pieces of the ko suit, pop ko, swap to big agi suit, (for me 2300agi), dps big on them, swap to dev suit when ko up, keep yur dev crit bonus up, and rake in the comms. good setup against wargs.

for fights with non-wargs. reavers, ba's. do same gear swap outs, hit tng, swap into the +evade gear for its bonuses as well to give you a quick dps boost, swap back and forth each time your SS is up.

get use to not using find footing at every single moment its up, and useable. I save mine for wargs that hips, and come in for a re-pounce at the end of a fight.

use everything. not just what looks the best, it all works, and is easily swapped.

trait perplexing riddle, make that mes a 5 second stun. aud makes it 15seconds, but that 5seconds in the beginning, is a stun.

when you pop feint attack, utilize that 7.5% dps increase, dont waste it. quit a snag, has a +2% inc dmg modifier to target as well.

if your outnumbered, but you think you could pull it off possibly, hips, suprise strike, pop ko, ready and able, pop ko. hips after ko is up, and switching into your big hit gear. and tear into them. Throw the fools off. Works great on the wargs that kite your ko's, they circle you, waiting for it to wear off. pop that ready and able, and ko them again. 9 times out of 10, they wont expect it. and will try tearing into you.
you guys say this and that, but im still tearing it up solo without issue. Other than the times i have 5-6 wargs on me, i still get a kill most times.

your hips can be tracked? so use it for offense, and not defense. they gonna find you through it anyways, so give it to them like the burg you are.

im not bragging, and im not saying im the best burg. I have my share of deaths, as much as the next person. but i am in no way nerfed, or inadequate in comparison to any creeps. Burg is OP to those who make the attempt to be their best. you dont want to put in the effort, your gonna suck no matter what.

Start fighting without using any cd's at all. train yourself to not need them, then when you do end up using them, you maximize the duration of the cd used. or limit yourself to just KO, do that for a while, learn your rotations to max out damage per second. i went from 950dps to 1500-2450 in the beginning of my burg life, just from combatanalysis and checking out what i could do on a training dummy. we are fully capable of not killing with the aid of our cooldown skills.

Get out there and stabawarg.

Vagma

Originally Posted by sebo2yoface

L2p man...
(nyyx)
my burglar is so op in the moors i have to hold back on 1v1s

Nyyx aint kidding either. One Badass burg, hats off to you nyyx, you and jetsu two of the best there are. thanks for teaching me the ways of the burg, still practicing what you taught me.

Originally Posted by Claytiger

i kill wargs like a fat kid with a 100$ bill in a candy store puts down candy.

so you cant 3hit kill something, aud took away one hitter quitters, i say it made fights epic.

here are some tips for those that complain about ko getting nerfed.

when you pop glee throw on +inc healing items first, glee then swap back. takes X quick button clicks. can really improve your heal.

i run 5 pieces of the dev suit, get my dev crit up, swap to 3 pieces of the ko suit, pop ko, swap to big agi suit, (for me 2300agi), dps big on them, swap to dev suit when ko up, keep yur dev crit bonus up, and rake in the comms. good setup against wargs.

for fights with non-wargs. reavers, ba's. do same gear swap outs, hit tng, swap into the +evade gear for its bonuses as well to give you a quick dps boost, swap back and forth each time your SS is up.

get use to not using find footing at every single moment its up, and useable. I save mine for wargs that hips, and come in for a re-pounce at the end of a fight.

use everything. not just what looks the best, it all works, and is easily swapped.

trait perplexing riddle, make that mes a 5 second stun. aud makes it 15seconds, but that 5seconds in the beginning, is a stun.

when you pop feint attack, utilize that 7.5% dps increase, dont waste it. quit a snag, has a +2% inc dmg modifier to target as well.

if your outnumbered, but you think you could pull it off possibly, hips, suprise strike, pop ko, ready and able, pop ko. hips after ko is up, and switching into your big hit gear. and tear into them. Throw the fools off. Works great on the wargs that kite your ko's, they circle you, waiting for it to wear off. pop that ready and able, and ko them again. 9 times out of 10, they wont expect it. and will try tearing into you.
you guys say this and that, but im still tearing it up solo without issue. Other than the times i have 5-6 wargs on me, i still get a kill most times.

your hips can be tracked? so use it for offense, and not defense. they gonna find you through it anyways, so give it to them like the burg you are.

im not bragging, and im not saying im the best burg. I have my share of deaths, as much as the next person. but i am in no way nerfed, or inadequate in comparison to any creeps. Burg is OP to those who make the attempt to be their best. you dont want to put in the effort, your gonna suck no matter what.

Start fighting without using any cd's at all. train yourself to not need them, then when you do end up using them, you maximize the duration of the cd used. or limit yourself to just KO, do that for a while, learn your rotations to max out damage per second. i went from 950dps to 1500-2450 in the beginning of my burg life, just from combatanalysis and checking out what i could do on a training dummy. we are fully capable of not killing with the aid of our cooldown skills.

Get out there and stabawarg.

Vagma

Are you really think that ppl who write here do not know that? I dont know is it complicated way of saying l2p, or just ignorance. I still have problem, and I claim to think I am not so nooby burglar. Maybe on your server it looks diffrently, but on main, something like solo warg/solo creep, practicly do not exist. I don't think that audacity=shorter stuns killed us, but finesse and lack of might (mitigations/parry). Our dps is ok, even to high on my taste, we miss survavility. Now its slowly comes in direction of glass canon, high dps, nothing else. After all I am damn support class, and I would like to keep it that way.

Originally Posted by Cliford

Are you really think that ppl who write here do not know that? I dont know is it complicated way of saying l2p, or just ignorance. I still have problem, and I claim to think I am not so nooby burglar. Maybe on your server it looks diffrently, but on main, something like solo warg/solo creep, practicly do not exist. I don't think that audacity=shorter stuns killed us, but finesse and lack of might (mitigations/parry). Our dps is ok, even to high on my taste, we miss survavility. Now its slowly comes in direction of glass canon, high dps, nothing else. After all I am damn support class, and I would like to keep it that way.

Of course you lack survivability if you run Quiet Knife, they are made to be dps class glass cannons. If you want more survivability and want to feel like REAL support class (with still pretty decent dps), you have to roll a 5blue 2yellow gambler. More stuns, more evade, better debuff (gamble). Always have improved disable on your warg/reaver. Also, have a swap tool for when you use glee with tactical damage + incoming healing and all glee legacies on it. It DOUBLES the power of glee. There you got your survivability and you can kill the strongest warg (not without effort though).

Gambler, the "play with your food" class. Can't go wrong with that in PVMP

Originally Posted by Claytiger

i kill wargs like a fat kid with a 100$ bill in a candy store puts down candy.

so you cant 3hit kill something, aud took away one hitter quitters, i say it made fights epic.

here are some tips for those that complain about ko getting nerfed.

when you pop glee throw on +inc healing items first, glee then swap back. takes X quick button clicks. can really improve your heal.

i run 5 pieces of the dev suit, get my dev crit up, swap to 3 pieces of the ko suit, pop ko, swap to big agi suit, (for me 2300agi), dps big on them, swap to dev suit when ko up, keep yur dev crit bonus up, and rake in the comms. good setup against wargs.

for fights with non-wargs. reavers, ba's. do same gear swap outs, hit tng, swap into the +evade gear for its bonuses as well to give you a quick dps boost, swap back and forth each time your SS is up.

get use to not using find footing at every single moment its up, and useable. I save mine for wargs that hips, and come in for a re-pounce at the end of a fight.

use everything. not just what looks the best, it all works, and is easily swapped.

trait perplexing riddle, make that mes a 5 second stun. aud makes it 15seconds, but that 5seconds in the beginning, is a stun.

when you pop feint attack, utilize that 7.5% dps increase, dont waste it. quit a snag, has a +2% inc dmg modifier to target as well.

if your outnumbered, but you think you could pull it off possibly, hips, suprise strike, pop ko, ready and able, pop ko. hips after ko is up, and switching into your big hit gear. and tear into them. Throw the fools off. Works great on the wargs that kite your ko's, they circle you, waiting for it to wear off. pop that ready and able, and ko them again. 9 times out of 10, they wont expect it. and will try tearing into you.
you guys say this and that, but im still tearing it up solo without issue. Other than the times i have 5-6 wargs on me, i still get a kill most times.

your hips can be tracked? so use it for offense, and not defense. they gonna find you through it anyways, so give it to them like the burg you are.

im not bragging, and im not saying im the best burg. I have my share of deaths, as much as the next person. but i am in no way nerfed, or inadequate in comparison to any creeps. Burg is OP to those who make the attempt to be their best. you dont want to put in the effort, your gonna suck no matter what.

Start fighting without using any cd's at all. train yourself to not need them, then when you do end up using them, you maximize the duration of the cd used. or limit yourself to just KO, do that for a while, learn your rotations to max out damage per second. i went from 950dps to 1500-2450 in the beginning of my burg life, just from combatanalysis and checking out what i could do on a training dummy. we are fully capable of not killing with the aid of our cooldown skills.

Get out there and stabawarg.

Vagma

wow so you have to get macros and all the gear to gear swap just to kill a warg? and my Rank 8 warg can still kill you, tough talk to bad you dont really deliver

Originally Posted by Simon23

Of course you lack survivability if you run Quiet Knife, they are made to be dps class glass cannons. If you want more survivability and want to feel like REAL support class (with still pretty decent dps), you have to roll a 5blue 2yellow gambler. More stuns, more evade, better debuff (gamble). Always have improved disable on your warg/reaver. Also, have a swap tool for when you use glee with tactical damage + incoming healing and all glee legacies on it. It DOUBLES the power of glee. There you got your survivability and you can kill the strongest warg (not without effort though).

Gambler, the "play with your food" class. Can't go wrong with that in PVMP

here, a burg i will listen too! ya looking forward to seeing you back out there....solo trying to prove all the other burgs wrong

Originally Posted by Tirn

I gave up seriously playing my burg as after the introduction of audacity our main purpose ie cc was taken away . Our developer should have been sacked ages ago if they haven't already . The new proposed changes are simply piecemeal . Who ever used confound ? Why the obsession with mischief ? Give us back the skills we used the most and made us feared throughout , stop tracking in pvmp what's the use of stealth for a stealth class when every clown creep can track you ? How absurd is that ?

What is the ultimate purpose behind all of this , reduce the numbers of burgs ? Well guess what Turbine check you stats , well done you have succeeded. It's sad but obvious that the conspiracy comes from the warg developer , sack them as well as they have ruined the moors .

this x1000000 for me, first off i know rating does not mean much but my burg is 2k , i hit it 1 week after audacity and decided to retire him because my margin of victory had decressed noticably in just that 1 weeks time as creeps got more audacity and my CC and burst DPS became less and less effective. im sure i could still do ok but still hate facing a warg, however maybe ill learn a thing or 2 from pales return and get interested in what a gambler burg can do

Originally Posted by Claytiger

i kill wargs like a fat kid with a 100$ bill in a candy store puts down candy.

so you cant 3hit kill something, aud took away one hitter quitters, i say it made fights epic.

here are some tips for those that complain about ko getting nerfed.

when you pop glee throw on +inc healing items first, glee then swap back. takes X quick button clicks. can really improve your heal.

i run 5 pieces of the dev suit, get my dev crit up, swap to 3 pieces of the ko suit, pop ko, swap to big agi suit, (for me 2300agi), dps big on them, swap to dev suit when ko up, keep yur dev crit bonus up, and rake in the comms. good setup against wargs.

for fights with non-wargs. reavers, ba's. do same gear swap outs, hit tng, swap into the +evade gear for its bonuses as well to give you a quick dps boost, swap back and forth each time your SS is up.

get use to not using find footing at every single moment its up, and useable. I save mine for wargs that hips, and come in for a re-pounce at the end of a fight.

use everything. not just what looks the best, it all works, and is easily swapped.

trait perplexing riddle, make that mes a 5 second stun. aud makes it 15seconds, but that 5seconds in the beginning, is a stun.

when you pop feint attack, utilize that 7.5% dps increase, dont waste it. quit a snag, has a +2% inc dmg modifier to target as well.

if your outnumbered, but you think you could pull it off possibly, hips, suprise strike, pop ko, ready and able, pop ko. hips after ko is up, and switching into your big hit gear. and tear into them. Throw the fools off. Works great on the wargs that kite your ko's, they circle you, waiting for it to wear off. pop that ready and able, and ko them again. 9 times out of 10, they wont expect it. and will try tearing into you.
you guys say this and that, but im still tearing it up solo without issue. Other than the times i have 5-6 wargs on me, i still get a kill most times.

your hips can be tracked? so use it for offense, and not defense. they gonna find you through it anyways, so give it to them like the burg you are.

im not bragging, and im not saying im the best burg. I have my share of deaths, as much as the next person. but i am in no way nerfed, or inadequate in comparison to any creeps. Burg is OP to those who make the attempt to be their best. you dont want to put in the effort, your gonna suck no matter what.

Start fighting without using any cd's at all. train yourself to not need them, then when you do end up using them, you maximize the duration of the cd used. or limit yourself to just KO, do that for a while, learn your rotations to max out damage per second. i went from 950dps to 1500-2450 in the beginning of my burg life, just from combatanalysis and checking out what i could do on a training dummy. we are fully capable of not killing with the aid of our cooldown skills.

Get out there and stabawarg.

Vagma

It's really nice that you found a way to play your burg effectively. It's also very nice of you to write it all down for us.

But honestly, you are saying that we need to have 3 sets of gear and use all of them during one battle. I mean, isn't the cost, the trouble and the concept (swapping tons of armor during a battle) of that a little ridiculous?

I haven't been 75 for a long time, and i haven't even entered the moors until one week ago. So i have a lot to learn.
When i came to the moors i got really frustrated by the uselessness of our stun/mez. Audacity, anti-stun brands and pots. Add that to how bad touch and go is right now and the fact the wargs can track us down and BA's will see us. We can't be wargs. We will be spotted and we will be killed if we act like one. Fortunately, we can still sneak on single targets. But even in my low-population server (meneldor) there are so few lone creeps that you waste so much time crawling on stealth to find someone alone that it's just not worth it. Creeps have a lot of life. Creeps have audacity. Creeps have anti-stun. The possibilities of a quick kill as a burg are reduced to solo play and even there they are rare. If it comes down to a prolonged battle, it seems to me we are at disadvantage, unless we have some crazy-&&& macros and tons of gear like the guy in the quote.


Up to now, as a QK burglar, I only find 2 uses for myself in a group, which are: 1) protecting the rear from wargs. 2) stunning enemies during the battle or while they are trying to escape. The second option requires the 5s riddle stun traited, and trick range + in your weapon. Solo play is rare. Forging ahead with other melees is a death sentence for us.

I'm still trying to find an alternative. Still struggling to find a decent way to play my class. I will try gambler, but i know i'll find with gambler the same problems i find with QK. My hope is that mischief-maker is somehow useful, though i have the feeling i'll have to give up my agi items just to stay alive for a few seconds once stealth is gone.

Oh well. We'll see.

Originally Posted by Simon23

Of course you lack survivability if you run Quiet Knife, they are made to be dps class glass cannons. If you want more survivability and want to feel like REAL support class (with still pretty decent dps), you have to roll a 5blue 2yellow gambler. More stuns, more evade, better debuff (gamble). Always have improved disable on your warg/reaver. Also, have a swap tool for when you use glee with tactical damage + incoming healing and all glee legacies on it. It DOUBLES the power of glee. There you got your survivability and you can kill the strongest warg (not without effort though).

Gambler, the "play with your food" class. Can't go wrong with that in PVMP

Agreed, I have a FA swap sak, with HIPS, and MG healing/pulses as well. its stacked with relics/title concerning tactical mastery and inc healing. the initial heal is over 1K... I've also been making use of 5 blue, and feel my surviveability has gone up.

Burg isn't my main, I made it for kin runs, but I am qwiklee falling for it's complications and versatility.

I'm just wondering, but how much does burgs normally crit on 7+ creeps in the moors?

when soloing, I usually crit around 1.5k with ss from posistion and then follow the attack with my crit chain, but the creeps don't lose more than about 1/4 health, and when I have done 1/4 of his health, hes done 3/4 of my health, even when I have poped touch and go? That's atleast what I feel. I don't have the best burg though, but I am rank 5 with 9 audacity and feel pretty okay, but still can't win most 1v1 fights. This is only when fighting 7+ creeps though, when fighting lower ranks I usually win with full moral because they panic or don't get to use any skills.

I just feel like an easy match... :P
Someone have any tips to improve myself?

EDIT: didn't notice that the post was old, but hope I can get an answer anyways. :P

Originally Posted by Demiron

I'm just wondering, but how much does burgs normally crit on 7+ creeps in the moors?

when soloing, I usually crit around 1.5k with ss from posistion and then follow the attack with my crit chain, but the creeps don't lose more than about 1/4 health, and when I have done 1/4 of his health, hes done 3/4 of my health, even when I have poped touch and go? That's atleast what I feel. I don't have the best burg though, but I am rank 5 with 9 audacity and feel pretty okay, but still can't win most 1v1 fights. This is only when fighting 7+ creeps though, when fighting lower ranks I usually win with full moral because they panic or don't get to use any skills.

I just feel like an easy match... :P
Someone have any tips to improve myself?

EDIT: didn't notice that the post was old, but hope I can get an answer anyways. :P

To be completely honest, in the state of the moors right now, you shouldn't be losing against anything as a burg, including spiders. Exceptional reavers and spiders can still be a challenge, but for the most part, no. What I think you need is just experience, every class out in the moors has a steep learning curve to play it well, or even decent. I can't help you with specific questions because you haven't really noted any specific problems, other than you dieing faster than you're killing them. I would recommend swapping gear, just to try it out, and watch other people's videos or look at burglar's builds. Also, if you ask specific questions or advice, I think you might get some more beneficial answers. Didn't mean for this post to be malicious at all and am very willing to answer any questions asked.

Originally Posted by Agonize

To be completely honest, in the state of the moors right now, you shouldn't be losing against anything as a burg, including spiders. Exceptional reavers and spiders can still be a challenge, but for the most part, no. What I think you need is just experience, every class out in the moors has a steep learning curve to play it well, or even decent. I can't help you with specific questions because you haven't really noted any specific problems, other than you dieing faster than you're killing them. I would recommend swapping gear, just to try it out, and watch other people's videos or look at burglar's builds. Also, if you ask specific questions or advice, I think you might get some more beneficial answers. Didn't mean for this post to be malicious at all and am very willing to answer any questions asked.

Okay, I have just reached 85 and only have 1.6k agility, so I'll might try to raise that a little before complaining, and it varies on how good I am, sometimes I can tank 3 medium ranked creeps and kill everyone of them with a little help and sometimes a spider kills me in 10 secs.

I will try to get better gear and just try to learn, thanks for the tip

Btw, your burglar rocks, can you tell me your build?

Originally Posted by Demiron

Okay, I have just reached 85 and only have 1.6k agility, so I'll might try to raise that a little before complaining, and it varies on how good I am, sometimes I can tank 3 medium ranked creeps and kill everyone of them with a little help and sometimes a spider kills me in 10 secs.

I will try to get better gear and just try to learn, thanks for the tip

Btw, your burglar rocks, can you tell me your build?

My build in what way? Gear/virtue/traits?

Myself, I have actually recently switched to a more tac mit/morale build. Not completely but where I can obtain it, I will go for it. I am sitting at around 43% tac mit and 10k morale atm. Probably your best bet to try to gain some more crit and drop phys mastery for a moors build aswell, with the outposts being there now. I trait 5r2b sometimes 5r1b1y depening on what I am doing.

Hey Agonize,

I watched all of your videos probably a month ago, and have made a lot of changes since then based on what I learned. I loved your burglar build video, but would really like to get more info on how you're building for morale and tactical mit. I've traited the same virtues you used (per the video) and have been ranking them up as most are still around 8-10. I use the Norcrofts Iron Necklace and Wold Iron Bauble for the tactical mit (something 1513 and 1537 respectively, I believe) as well as vitality and some physical mit. I'm going to equip the protective cloak of Eomer once I can get it made for the extra 778 tactical mit, as well. My concern is that I'm sacrificing too much offensively with these items, especially with 2 of them being purple and underlevelled. Any advice on gear based on what you use? Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by Meriweather

Hey Agonize,

I watched all of your videos probably a month ago, and have made a lot of changes since then based on what I learned. I loved your burglar build video, but would really like to get more info on how you're building for morale and tactical mit. I've traited the same virtues you used (per the video) and have been ranking them up as most are still around 8-10. I use the Norcrofts Iron Necklace and Wold Iron Bauble for the tactical mit (something 1513 and 1537 respectively, I believe) as well as vitality and some physical mit. I'm going to equip the protective cloak of Eomer once I can get it made for the extra 778 tactical mit, as well. My concern is that I'm sacrificing too much offensively with these items, especially with 2 of them being purple and underlevelled. Any advice on gear based on what you use? Thanks in advance!

Hey Meriweather,

My answer to you would be that you're doing most of the stuff right. I forgot to mention but I am also looking for critical defence gear wherever I can find it. Pretty much just taking my burglar in the direction of more survivable as a whole as a whole bunch of burgs are doing now. Your one concern of sacrificing too much offensively can go away. As you will be sacrificing offense, the amount of it is negligible as to what you're gaining. With the outpost mastery buffs they added, you can sacrifice a ton of phys mastery and still be doing good, because when you start going huge into phys mastery, the DR on it is huge. The only place you might want to try to keep high is your crit chance, so maybe swapping relics with phys mastery for some crit chance relics.

Currently these are the peices of gear I have switched for more defence.

-Defensive Cloak of Eomer(The Crafted one)
-Starblossom Necklace of Endurance(Tac mit and Crit Defence)
-Petrified Great Eagle Egg(Has a ton of Crit D)

Originally Posted by Demiron

I'm just wondering, but how much does burgs normally crit on 7+ creeps in the moors?

when soloing, I usually crit around 1.5k with ss from posistion and then follow the attack with my crit chain, but the creeps don't lose more than about 1/4 health, and when I have done 1/4 of his health, hes done 3/4 of my health, even when I have poped touch and go? That's atleast what I feel. I don't have the best burg though, but I am rank 5 with 9 audacity and feel pretty okay, but still can't win most 1v1 fights. This is only when fighting 7+ creeps though, when fighting lower ranks I usually win with full moral because they panic or don't get to use any skills.

I just feel like an easy match... :P
Someone have any tips to improve myself?

EDIT: didn't notice that the post was old, but hope I can get an answer anyways. :P

Part of what you are seeing is the HUGE effect of Audacity. Rank 7+ creeps are getting tot he point where they will have full audacity (13). If you only have 9 audacity then you are fighting at a noticeable disadvantage vs them.

Another part of what you are seeing is experience. You can hit rank 5-6 by just doing map quests without ever actually doing any PvP. However, by the time someone hits rank 7 they have probably gotten some actual PvP under their belt and they aren't going to freak out when they see you. They are going to try to kill you when they see you.

Another part of what you are seeing is that before rank 6-7 creep dont have many of their class defining skills.Once they hit rank 7 they probably have most of their core skills.

As far as gear/stats go. I build for survival in the moors.

In particular that means:

13 audacity

10k+ morale (unbuffed)

2,000+ agility (You should be able to keep you agility above 2,000 even in moors gear)

9k-10k tact mit (Always run offensive and defensive scrolls. There are several items for the cloak, pocket, & neck equipment slots that can help your mits)