Thread: What Burglars need in the moors right now

I'm going to start this thread out with saying that I would appreciate constructive comments/criticism only. Burglars are awful in the moors right now after Update 6 and if you don't want to admit that, that's your business. I'm creating this thread so that hopefully the issues with PvMP burglars will be fixed.

My burglar is Handslikehouses, rank 8. I've had my Burg since 2010 and i've seen the class go through various stages of potency. Pre-update 6 RoI was the peak of our classes' power, and we did need a bit of a nerf, or something like that. The ToO auto-devastate set bonus was just too powerful for an already amazing class. But now after update 6, Burglars are just as rare as the 1v1 or even 2v1/3v1 situations they used to thrive in.

Let's also throw the fact on here that most Burglars are forced to solo. I know at least on my server, (Brandywine) there are very few Burg groups. I don't know how it is on other servers but most raids don't want burgs either. Why take a single target DPS/debuffer when you can take a champ or LM? This has always been an issue with the Burglar class, but it wasn't a big deal since there wasn't much, if anything, that could stand up to a well-geared/well-played burglar in the moors. Now I hardly even see any Burgs out there. Some of the best Burglars on my server have given up or quit the game entirely if their Burg was their only toon. I see the occasional new Burglar who doesn't know that they're all but useless now, but that's about it. The reason for this vacancy of Burglars in Brandywine's Moors? Audacity and Shadow Stance wargs.

So here's what Update 6 and the changes to Shadow Stance Wargs a few months ago brought to the table.
First is Audacity. I have to honestly say that it is THE worst stat/concept Turbine has ever put in this game. The moors did NOT need this stat. What they basically did with this was nerf Burgs/LM's. It would be all well and good if you wanted to put a -50% Crowd-control duration/-30% incoming damage aspect into the game if you DIDN'T have two classes which relied on quick kills before the enemy could get out of their CC. I can't help but feel that audacity was a DIRECT nerf to these two classes. And to top it all off, wargs in Shadow stance, which are a burglar's main adversary in the Moors, cannot have their attacks block/parry/evaded. Let's also top off that OP stance with the fact that most creeps have been stacking finesse. This now makes our skill Touch & Go useless against anyone but BA's and Reavers; and honestly it's not that great against either of those classes.

There's also the fact that diminishing returns also reduces the duration of your CC by half each time. So if a 30 second riddle is used on a rank 7 Audacity Warg, that's an immediate 15 second mez. Then you hit Startling Twist and it's an immediate 4.5 second stun. That's time for maybe one crit chain and then aim+flashing blades? And then you've done maybe 3-4k damage because of the incoming damage reduction that audacity gives? And that's IF the warg doesn't pot/brand your stun. If you didn't already know what I was talking about with how much Audacity has messed up how a burg plays in the moors, I hope you see it now. The only high ranked creeps a burg can really stand up to anymore are Reavers and Blackarrows. You can get lucky and beat a WL/Spider/Defiler if you know how to fight them well. But rank 10+ wargs are a nightmare. If they don't stun pot/brand you, popping knives out/putting disable on them and spamming Mischevious glee might give you enough time to kill them, and that's also assuming they don't HIPS or Sprint, or call in a warg pack.

Our only escape skill can also be tracked through, which I think is ridiculous, seeing as how creeps can buy tracking items from Grams.

My point with this entire rant is that Burgs need some love. I'm sure there will be some old-school, die-hard burgs who still won't admit these problems exist, but a class that is forced to solo shouldn't be as bad as Burglars are in the moors right now. I don't think they need a reconstruction or anything like what Orion did to Minstrels/wardens/Champions, but we need some tweaks.

These are some changes I think are reasonable and needed:
-Touch and Go should add a mitigation Bonus or force the Evade bonus to be in place even with things like a warg's shadow stance.
-Knives out should have a 15-20 second duration if the above change isn't feasable.
-I think it's fair enough to say we need one more heal, or have Glee be more powerful. If we can't get those 3-5 second kills while our enemy is still stunned from startling twist, we need more survivability. Maybe another toggle debuff like reveal weakness that gives back 5-10% damage as morale, kind of like a cappy mark. This skill would probably only be able to apply to the burglar using it, because being able to stack that with the cappy mark would be insanely OP.
-I think we need a very meager Tactical damage debuff. Maybe -10% Tactical Damage or something along those lines. Nothing like the awesome skill LM's have called Frost-lore, but something to help us survive 5 seconds longer.
-HIPS shouldn't be able to be tracked through. Plain and simple.
-Gambler debuffs need a huge update too. The subtle stab while gambled debuff is only a -300 to resistances right now. That wasn't even good in Mines of Moria when it was implemented. The Cruel Odds trait needs to be more than +2% melee crit chance also. One more Debuffing Gamble skill besides Clever Retort is reasonable as well.
-I was also thinking that Burglars could use a stance like Flayer wargs have. If creeps are going to start being on the level of Freeps as it seems they will be with the RoR expansion changes, each class needs a way to possibly fight another.

Obviously every one of these changes would probably make the Burglar class the most powerful in the game, and i'm not suggesting all of these be implemented, but they're just some ideas i've come up with while fighting in the moors and trying to figure out why I lose fights when I do.

I urge any Burglars who feel the same way about the class to speak up and post their agreements/disagreements/opinions in reply to this thread. Let's make our voices heard.

Burglars are not awful in the moors.

/thread

I have to agree with you, we need better stuff to fight in moors solo. Our CC is like nothing now, not to mention creeps new brand in combat from lootboxs, its like a r15 brand, cooldown every 5 min and can be used in combat? If thats not op i dont know what else it is. Some creeps on my server pops that up almost every fight.

If i may suggest too, since our touch and go is useless on shadow wargs, they could make our disable like -25% damage when we trait it. That would balance with their shadow stance.

And yes they being abble to track us after we hips is a pain. You ninja jump on someone in the middle of a group, kill fast and manage not to die while doing it and u finally do, hips, for what? So they can spam track you 3 or 4 times, its very hard to get out away with 3 wargs on your tail.

I play LM and Burg and have essentially abandoned the Moors as a bad job. Unless it really flicks your bean and you cant live without it the whole thing has very much moved to a mix of instant gratification for the young teens coupled with milking their parent's cards for cash for TP. Burgs and LMs are CC/debuff classes and guess what, CC and debuffs are the elements that have been nerfed to death. Yes, there are those who can still perform, but they are now very much the edge, its become very polarised and no longer somewhere to go for a couple of hours sociable fun after a Saturday evening raid. The learning curve is now too steep for more folks to start, unless they are possessed of unusual patience, self-beleif bordering on arrogance, or a serious streak of masochism.

I deplore this:-(

/signed

Playing a burglar in the moors is painful. Pre U6 we relied heavily on burst damage. Audacity took that away.
CC + DR, store, and normal in game items? Gone. Survivability? Gone with the introduction of Shadow Stance. Burgs seriously got screwed. It's quite evident when all the prominent burglars on the server just disappear at the same time; with the introduction of audacity.

Originally Posted by dantheman865301

/signed

Playing a burglar in the moors is painful. Pre U6 we relied heavily on burst damage. Audacity took that away.
CC + DR, store, and normal in game items? Gone. Survivability? Gone with the introduction of Shadow Stance.
Burgs seriously got screwed. It's quite evident when all the prominent burglars on the server just disappear at the same time; with the introduction of audacity.

Amen brother

Please, please, please tell me this is a joke?

If you think playing a Burg in the moors right now is hard, try playing any creep class besides BA and Warg. keep in mind, my Burglar is my main class I play with in the Moors.

I have no problem fighting, and winning, 1v1s with any creep class of any rank, without using cooldowns. I have 3 audacity currently. You guys must be doing something wrong.

Originally Posted by WiteWolfEye

Please, please, please tell me this is a joke?

If you think playing a Burg in the moors right now is hard, try playing any creep class besides BA and Warg. keep in mind, my Burglar is my main class I play with in the Moors.

I have no problem fighting, and winning, 1v1s with any creep class of any rank, without using cooldowns. I have 3 audacity currently. You guys must be doing something wrong.

Or you play on meneldor. I've been there too.

I agree with a lot of what's been said here. I've played less and less as of late because soloing on my burg is pretty tough now. Its mainly because my burst dps has been diminished and creeps really never run solo. Its rare to find a non greenie creep that runs solo.

eh id have to disagree...ive had absolutely no problem playing my burg in the moors since audacity was introduced...they are still better than every single creep class

No offense, but you guys who are saying there's nothing wrong with Burgs are playing on servers that are low population. Trying playing on Brandywine or Elendilmir.

Originally Posted by mattg18

eh id have to disagree...ive had absolutely no problem playing my burg in the moors since audacity was introduced...they are still better than every single creep class

This.

I guess it isn't easy for those who don't want to adapt to the changes and gear out for it but there are obviously people still succeeding at playing the burglar in the moors. Sure being tracked 20+ times in 5 minutes by a group of wargs/uruks is annoying but you just have to adapt.

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

No offense, but you guys who are saying there's nothing wrong with Burgs are playing on servers that are low population. Trying playing on Brandywine or Elendilmir.

Thanks for posting that for me <3

Originally Posted by MrJaZn

This.

I guess it isn't easy for those who don't want to adapt to the changes and gear out for it but there are obviously people still succeeding at playing the burglar in the moors. Sure being tracked 20+ times in 5 minutes by a group of wargs/uruks is annoying but you just have to adapt.

Adapt to the class being a job to play?

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

No offense, but you guys who are saying there's nothing wrong with Burgs are playing on servers that are low population. Trying playing on Brandywine or Elendilmir.

i play a solo warg and solo cappy on E...i used to play a solo burg on bw but transfered him off long ago...burgs do not and never really will fare well in big servers...

and now you just said it yourself...its not the burg that has a problem...its the server...why should my burg be buffed back to godmode when theres a few ppl trying to solo on a big server...

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

No offense, but you guys who are saying there's nothing wrong with Burgs are playing on servers that are low population. Trying playing on Brandywine or Elendilmir.

There are plenty of times on Riddermark where it's 40 creeps on and 5 freeps on and I'm still doing very well at those times. If the complaint is that you can't solo against a large number of creeps because you are no longer godmode then I see the answer is obviously find a group. If the public raid or whatever doesn't want a burglar, make friends who don't care what class you are and just want to roll the moors for fun.

I did find the Reveal Weakness (burglar-only) heal interesting.

I'm pretty sure that's not his point. Creepside on a lot of low pop servers is nothing but a bunch of kids and some zerg noobs with the occasional decent player here and there. If I transfered my burg to Meneldor, it'd be a total farm fest for me. Half of the creepside population probably don't even know about bugged pre pots.

Originally Posted by mattg18

burgs do not and never really will fare well in big servers...

After audacity.

you can plead, speak sense to a fool till you are at a lost for words but the burg dev, like the wizard of oz cant help you. They fired him around the moria release.


He is in a "good place" his burg creation is not.

Hum...
This remembers me a topic on the Champions forums on how champions were terrible in the moors and needed more love.

You enver know how to react to that kind of things... x)

P.S. I must say the «I cant no logner win againt 2 or 3 creeps! I want my godmode back » was quite the peak of this post.

I play warg and burglar on my server. I only started recently with burglar and I've had my warg for a long time, meaning I play my burglar similar to how i play my warg and look for similar fights (planning my fight location, looking for terrain that is to my advantage with little risk of nasty surprises).

What I've found is that my burglar wins battles a lot easier than my warg does. My warg still gets more infamy but that's mainly due to spending a lot more time on warg. If i get the jump on something on burglar I'll almost certainly win, unless it runs (which is also kind of a win, just no points for it). If I get the jump on something on warg I might win, but only if my opponent makes several bad mistakes.

Don't go charging in to crowded areas unless there's a group of allies to hide in. Think about which areas you're least likely to get hunted in by a large group. Get a kill and move on, don't stick around for too long because kills are usually called out. Even before you get ambushed, have a plan ready to know how to escape. No class should ever have a 100% escape chance with cds, but you can get very close to 100% escape chance if you choose your fights with care (I die a lot on warg, I'll admit. Usually because I prioritize kills, so I'll charge a raid if there's a chance for a kill. Also regularly push my luck a bit too far on burg or warg which results in a couple of deaths as well).

So basically I don't see the reason burglars should be any more powerful. They're already great if played right (I'm not good with burglar but I still win fights. Good burglars are frightening to fight against).

Originally Posted by Dawnsinger

What I've found is that my burglar wins battles a lot easier than my warg does. My warg still gets more infamy but that's mainly due to spending a lot more time on warg. If i get the jump on something on burglar I'll almost certainly win, unless it runs (which is also kind of a win, just no points for it). If I get the jump on something on warg I might win, but only if my opponent makes several bad mistakes.

Yeah, I have to disagree. I have my R11 burglar with full aud who I know how to play to the fullest extent of the class. I also have a R7 warg with 4 aud. I log on my burglar, and log out of frustration in 10 minutes. I log on my warg, and I rake in points. I hold my own against great players with nearly no thought put into traits, and not even all R5+ skills. If I get the jump on something on warg I'll usually win without my opponent making several bad mistakes, unless it's a completely geared good player. Burglar? I just try to not log on to cope.

This reminds me a little bit of the problems Wardens had before where the majority of that community could not perform their roles as well as guards. The great players made Wardens look like they could be taken on every run and tank well. The average or less than average players made Wardens look like a complete fail tank class. They got a buff that I personally think they needed and now average players look pretty amazing on the Warden.

Good players on a Burglar can function fine and participate in the Moors and PvE raiding perfectly fine if not great. Average players or less than average players are having a little bit of difficulty and can't faceroll easymode everything in sight without thinking so they claim there is something significantly wrong with the class. Right now I don't believe the situation is anywhere close to as bad as the Warden one seemed and I don't want the Burglar to be reworked into godmode. I think the disagreement might even lie between our different opinions of what is "winning" in the Moors. My definition would be getting 1 or 2 kills per death. I feel like alot of people think "winning" is 100 k/d ratio.

tl;dr - Sure it's tougher now out there. Quit crying and learn to play better or go roll a Champ/Minstrel/Warden. Every class isn't for everyone so this just might not be the one for you at this time. Come back in a year when it's our turn to be super godmode.

Originally Posted by dantheman865301

Yeah, I have to disagree. I have my R11 burglar with full aud who I know how to play to the fullest extent of the class. I also have a R7 warg with 4 aud. I log on my burglar, and log out of frustration in 10 minutes. I log on my warg, and I rake in points. I hold my own against great players with nearly no thought put into traits, and not even all R5+ skills. If I get the jump on something on warg I'll usually win without my opponent making several bad mistakes, unless it's a completely geared good player. Burglar? I just try to not log on to cope.

Yeah, I don't believe much of this. If you knew the fullest extent of the class, you'd be doing alright in the Moors. I don't see a R7 a4 warg beating "great players" unless those afk RK's count.

I know this post comes out as most of you are pretty bad and doing it wrong, and I'm doing good out there so I'm awesome. I just can't keep my mouth shut anymore. For the record, I don't think I'm very good at this class but with the amount of in my opinion average players, it makes some of us look pretty amazing.

Nothing to see here everything is fuctioning as intended. The burg was a mistake and we fired the person responsable for it. Over the last "years" we have worked hard to make the people who play it angry upset trolls, pre u6 we were failing at this mission. So we took a step back and thought out side the box with u6. Glad to see we are on the right corse once more. We still have some tweeking to do but the loss of stealth and all CC with mounted combat should be the buff this already perfect class needs.

Originally Posted by dantheman865301

Yeah, I have to disagree. I have my R11 burglar with full aud who I know how to play to the fullest extent of the class. I also have a R7 warg with 4 aud. I log on my burglar, and log out of frustration in 10 minutes. I log on my warg, and I rake in points. I hold my own against great players with nearly no thought put into traits, and not even all R5+ skills. If I get the jump on something on warg I'll usually win without my opponent making several bad mistakes, unless it's a completely geared good player. Burglar? I just try to not log on to cope.

what exactly are you trying to do out there on your burg that you get frustrated so fast out there...in 1v1 situations a burg shouldnt lose to any creep class even without cds and without starting in stealth...maybe rethink your playstyle out there or maybe you cant play to your fullest extent...

as for a warg...sure they can beat mediocre ppl with them making mistakes...but from the great players i have fought on E and know on riddermark you wouldnt stand a chance at 4 aud and not even all your skills...maybe bw just isnt full of great players...which i wouldnt be surprised as the op said youd have to be lucky to even beat a wl/def/spider and stood no chance on wargs...

Burg is fine, CC is useless maybe, but burg doesn´t need stuns or cd´s to kill creeps. I TRY to be Pro and that is the reason why im not use CC ^^ And burg dps is insane.

Experiences seem to differ from server to server. Alot of you are quick to pull the "L2P" card out though. As for winning any 1v1 without cds....I think alot of good creeps would argue that. I play on a relatively low pop server and could still name creeps that could force your cd.

Originally Posted by Imsoclastic

My burglar is Handslikehouses, rank 8.

You are rank 7.

trololo

First off Hands, you are a great burglar on our server and everyone knows it. Second, don't talk about changes Dev's rarely look at them for consideration.

We are on the same server, I dont have trouble getting into raids if I wanted to: We can demolish a single target like a defiler in the back of the raid trying to out of combat rez or get heals off extremely fast, not to mention our addle cooldown legacy on war leaders. If you raid you should trait AOE Dust and do multiple startling twists and then focus on a DPS target and run through the raid causing utter distraction for the creeps. Trust me, when you get a big crit chain off on a non-raid targeted creep they begin to yelp for heals. This spread over multiple targets hurts an overall creep raid. Obviously there are other debuffs like Reveal Weakness, CJs for the group for heals etc etc. We are awesome in raids and if raids don't know it, it is their loss.

Solo, on the same server. Every warg I have come across solo, took some time to learn what the new warg was about, because I don't play creep side and don't bother reading the diaries, I'd rather adapt to what I see and learn from fights. So, on that note, I have not had any issues with 1 single warg and no issues with sometimes up to 4 wargs. Hell Unthag and myself fought for 20 minutes yesterday each time with me at 4,500/6,700 HP and him dead and just running away, out of respect for his rating I didn't persue. Reavers are pie to kill even high rankers, you just need to watch for when they can use their immunities to stuns and also learn when their big hit animations come into affect. Spiders... even if they full heal in a burrow and lay down webbing, you use trick range to twist them as they come back out, even if you are slowed by webbing you can catch up and destroy them by immediate putting a riddle on. By that time they are running and you are right behind them whacking at their now 6 legs.... :P
Defilers are easy, fear pot the first one, addle multiple times continuously, mez whenever possible even provoke mez, which is amazing, even with out gamble chance on your bag. BA's, just run around in circles... I guarantee if you run in an opposite circle motion you will kill them in about 20 seconds or less, because they are that dumb. War leaders, addle, stun etc etc dps.

Those are just tips, solo fights are all possible. You just need to learn the routines of your opponent, break those up and they just start to melt and cry.

I have 7 audacity with 3 panda and 3 chance set. Stacking damage bonus on evade is ridiculous and makes up for lost agility with the chance set. Buffed with scrolls and a token I am sitting at right over 8k morale, my physical mastery isn't obviously for PvE, its lower in PvP so I get these buffs from the armor sets to make up for lost physical mastery. And to any unseen armor burgs out there, why just why? Despite the 7 audacity from the complete set, do you realize by the time you get to the point of a devestate 25% chance, the creep should be pretty much dead, unles you are in a fight over X amount of time to tier yourself up, regular crit chance is what matters in our short burst fights, especially as a solo'r.

Originally Posted by mornon

First off Hands, you are a great burglar on our server and everyone knows it. Second, don't talk about changes Dev's rarely look at them for consideration.

We are on the same server, I dont have trouble getting into raids if I wanted to: We can demolish a single target like a defiler in the back of the raid trying to out of combat rez or get heals off extremely fast, not to mention our addle cooldown legacy on war leaders. If you raid you should trait AOE Dust and do multiple startling twists and then focus on a DPS target and run through the raid causing utter distraction for the creeps. Trust me, when you get a big crit chain off on a non-raid targeted creep they begin to yelp for heals. This spread over multiple targets hurts an overall creep raid. Obviously there are other debuffs like Reveal Weakness, CJs for the group for heals etc etc. We are awesome in raids and if raids don't know it, it is their loss.

Solo, on the same server. Every warg I have come across solo, took some time to learn what the new warg was about, because I don't play creep side and don't bother reading the diaries, I'd rather adapt to what I see and learn from fights. So, on that note, I have not had any issues with 1 single warg and no issues with sometimes up to 4 wargs. Hell Unthag and myself fought for 20 minutes yesterday each time with me at 4,500/6,700 HP and him dead and just running away, out of respect for his rating I didn't persue. Reavers are pie to kill even high rankers, you just need to watch for when they can use their immunities to stuns and also learn when their big hit animations come into affect. Spiders... even if they full heal in a burrow and lay down webbing, you use trick range to twist them as they come back out, even if you are slowed by webbing you can catch up and destroy them by immediate putting a riddle on. By that time they are running and you are right behind them whacking at their now 6 legs.... :P
Defilers are easy, fear pot the first one, addle multiple times continuously, mez whenever possible even provoke mez, which is amazing, even with out gamble chance on your bag. BA's, just run around in circles... I guarantee if you run in an opposite circle motion you will kill them in about 20 seconds or less, because they are that dumb. War leaders, addle, stun etc etc dps.

Those are just tips, solo fights are all possible. You just need to learn the routines of your opponent, break those up and they just start to melt and cry.

I have 7 audacity with 3 panda and 3 chance set. Stacking damage bonus on evade is ridiculous and makes up for lost agility with the chance set. Buffed with scrolls and a token I am sitting at right over 8k morale, my physical mastery isn't obviously for PvE, its lower in PvP so I get these buffs from the armor sets to make up for lost physical mastery. And to any unseen armor burgs out there, why just why? Despite the 7 audacity from the complete set, do you realize by the time you get to the point of a devestate 25% chance, the creep should be pretty much dead, unles you are in a fight over X amount of time to tier yourself up, regular crit chance is what matters in our short burst fights, especially as a solo'r.

ugg can not beleave i am responding.


maybe part of it is that brands and pre pots and tracking tomes make all the stuff we can do useless.

maybe another part of it is our "cool downs" are kinda weak now and pointless in a most situations. If you are focused by a warg and a BA what do you hit for a cool down? what works?

What we could use:
a 20m blink attached to FA
a movement speed buff
evade made a viable pasive once more. kind of a joke stat right now.
HiPs make it work. do somthing about the pots.
and more

there's a fair amount of good points on both sides of this argument. playing a burg is certainly not what it was years ago. ive played 3 burgs (one perma banned) and this is frankly the hardest its been.

as noted our cd's are pretty much useless. being tracked after hips is counter intuitive. a spider pet chasing me after hips is silly. is our stealth movement speed on bags even working? audacity has killed our cc. wargs of r5 with store bought stuff can ruin your day. ba's that get a slow on you are laughing. there's a whole laundry list of items.

that all being said you can still get kills - just comes down to picking your targets careful and not being concerned about stars. i feel pretty good about my time out there, but i burn every and any cd possible for comms, as i just recently returned. don't be afraid to hips to get the kill, tng to start so on..

happy hunting!

Originally Posted by mornon

And to any unseen armor burgs out there, why just why? Despite the 7 audacity from the complete set, do you realize by the time you get to the point of a devestate 25% chance, the creep should be pretty much dead, unles you are in a fight over X amount of time to tier yourself up, regular crit chance is what matters in our short burst fights, especially as a solo'r.

Since most 1v1 fights go for more than 10-20 seconds I find the extra +10% dev chance after 10s very helpful. Crits win me fights and if I don't crit at all I usually struggle and the fight isn't going to be good for me. With my build of 7.4k morale and 24.4k phys mastery unbuffed I do very well with the unseen set.

I've learned to deal with tracks, they are easy to avoid if you know how to get away. Tracking through Hips does suck, thats why we have ready and able and if you were smart you would be going the way they would least expect, ie: in a creep keep, OC etc, there are multiple places to hide out of combat, and restealth. Brands, both store and in game are annoying yes, thats where disable and kiting comes into play and stacking bleeds. I don't typically have an issue with a solo or duo branded creep unless its a WL + BA/spider combo, but even then.. been done. What it comes down to with burglars is every fight is situational and you have to be keen on how you approach it, rank, buffs, brands, if they are healers or dps. Sometimes I do avoid a battle I know I won't win like on our server we have a high ranked WL running around pocket healing a reaver/BA/spider and that combo can be difficult if they both have 7 audacity. You might be able to kill the warleader, get good renown but die from the other creep, it happens. I still don't believe in the unseen set, I can see your point, but that +25% devestate is not needed, devestates can still range to a low number. I never have a dull moment, I still didn't even mention safe fall, fight near a cliff and see what a difference it makes.

I'm not worried about future updates, playing a burglar moors or PvE is an ever changing experience which makes our class a lot more fun for each situation. There are those that cry but that just means they don't get how much fun it is to play this class.

Since debate isn't welcome here, if I'm doing it wrong on burg, all you people saying a warg who can't do what I stated are playing your warg incorrectly.

So where are we now.

what we need is caltrops and stun dust to work in moors.

Originally Posted by dantheman865301

Since debate isn't welcome here, if I'm doing it wrong on burg, all you people saying a warg who can't do what I stated are playing your warg incorrectly.

So where are we now.

Burglars are still a strong class. However, we've steadily been receiving nerfs for quite a while now and power creep is definitely catching up to us. We don't know how RoR is going to turn out yet but if this continues we will grow weaker and weaker as everyone else gets buffed.

Uhhhh.... what? I stopped playing Lotro pre-ROI on my rank 9 burglar, when i returned to PVP on my burglar, post audacity it was just as easy to play my burglar, i got bored of it and started playing a war leader.

Originally Posted by MrFreddy

Burglars are still a strong class. However, we've steadily been receiving nerfs for quite a while now and power creep is definitely catching up to us. We don't know how RoR is going to turn out yet but if this continues we will grow weaker and weaker as everyone else gets buffed.

I agree with that.

Ofcourse, I see they are still nerfing burgs evade even more in next patch.

IMO, Turbine should be concentrating more on the top PvP classes. i.e. Minis, Wardens, RKs and champs.

That is where the nerfing should continue!

Burgs can no loger take 5 creeps and win therefore the class is broken?
A good burg will win any 1vs1. By far. Including wargs. The class is FAR from broken. Before u6 it was just godmode, now its just very good.

Try to play a creep and you will see how burgs are frustrating, annoying. Thae 4-5k in the &&& from a broken class? Oh yah...

Edit: burg dev diary, tactical debuf, finesse debuff and such...; like my WL would say: quit whinning and fight maggots!