Thread: What makes a good officer in a kinship?

I was asked to be an officer in my kinship, but hesitated because I felt I did not have enough experience with LOTRO to be any benefit in that role.

I may be underestimating myself, but I had to do a quick reality check. Why was I considered to be an officer? What credentials could I possibly have to take this responsibility, since I only started playing 3 months ago, and have not even reached level cap? These are questions I should have asked the leader.

Granted, I don't think the officer role was clearly explained to me in the beginning. Some individuals accept the role because they want the prestige. I am the opposite. I'd like to do a good job as an officer, but what does that entail?

So....I am asking this community one single question......

From your experiences in kinships.....how would you define what makes a good officer, and what makes a bad one???

Well all kins are diffirent. Most main thing is your willing to help mostly newer player's or lvl's kinmate's.. question's,crafting, resource's,gear, questing, instant's.. ect ect. Being trust worthly officer's need be trust worthy, an unbias about thing's. So kin's make trusted mmeber's mainly for control on use of kin chest's. Also some just because they figure everytone looking for the prest. and use it to keep everyone happy.. i guess.
Your here asking, so u seem look for answer's to quetion's,, which be a plus for someone still learning. other than maybe the some 3-5 yr vet's i thnk alot of officer's probably still learning thing's even in lower lv; area's an stuff.
In all be just stay yourself,, you'll learn what being an officer is about in your kin. Thats what got ya to officer lvl .
best luck with it and have fun

Some kins make everyone an officer. Others, specific duties are expected. If they wanted to promote you without detailing any extra responsibilities, I would assume there aren't any. Though I'd be wary of any such kinship, myself.

Apart from the extra kinship powers given by the game mechanics the actual role of an Officer would vary from Kin to Kin. In the larger or more organised Kinships the Officers would be given specific roles such as :-

Kin Leader - the overall leader of the Kinship.
Seneschel - responsible for the hearts and minds of the Kinshop members, aka morale officer. Deputy to the Kin leader.
Quartermaster - responsible for organising people equipment to help ensure members are given help/advice over their gear.
Commander - responsible for teaching PvP skills etc. Also might lead any Kinship efforts into the Ettins.

Just a few ideas, but as i said i believe every kin will have their own unique personalised view of how and what their Officers do.

Hi Tiboric

thanks for your response.

I noticed that the officer role you've observed is generously broad. I mean, it appears that an officer role entails being the somebody that wears multiple hats, and can multi-task to a certain degree. You know what I conclude about that observation?

OFFICER BURNOUT......and then maybe a little resentment.....equals no fun at all.

The kin I am in is still relatively small in recruits and kin members. So, it's not likely that officer duties will be subdivided into a specific role per officer. There also aren't enough officers to fulfill specific duties (ie. crafting, events planner, recruitment, welcome wagon, etc). However, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to bring forth these concerns to the leader. The last thing an officer or kinship needs is an exhausted officer doing double-duty, over-time, and silently suffering.

Does anyone else have more to add, specifically about officer duties, how to handle the mayhem of rapid recruiting, and how to manage duties without going crazy?

thanks for your time

Originally Posted by Tiboric

Well all kins are diffirent. Most main thing is your willing to help mostly newer player's or lvl's kinmate's.. question's,crafting, resource's,gear, questing, instant's.. ect ect. Being trust worthly officer's need be trust worthy, an unbias about thing's. So kin's make trusted mmeber's mainly for control on use of kin chest's. Also some just because they figure everytone looking for the prest. and use it to keep everyone happy.. i guess.
Your here asking, so u seem look for answer's to quetion's,, which be a plus for someone still learning. other than maybe the some 3-5 yr vet's i thnk alot of officer's probably still learning thing's even in lower lv; area's an stuff.
In all be just stay yourself,, you'll learn what being an officer is about in your kin. Thats what got ya to officer lvl .
best luck with it and have fun

Yeah, you've made a strong point....and I agree with you. I'll have to say that maybe this kinship is just too small and new. The leader is new in his role, but has a good sense of what his vision is for the kin. He's also very active helping kin members out, and answering questions. A great leader, however, the officer duties are vague and subject to change once the kin becomes larger, I think.

Personally, I like details....I like knowing what I'm getting into.....versus jumping blindly into a role without understanding the expectations.

As a kinsperson, I still help others out in the kin, and share crafting etc. But it's not as demanding with the expectations that an officer might have....especially when the duties of an officer are not clearly defined. It's like being everybody and everything to everyone. IMHO, it's a recipe for burnout and resentment.

Originally Posted by Frisco

Some kins make everyone an officer. Others, specific duties are expected. If they wanted to promote you without detailing any extra responsibilities, I would assume there aren't any. Though I'd be wary of any such kinship, myself.

Of course, there's the usual caveat: it depends on the kin, but....

What I look for in an officer is leadership - this can take many forms including:

• Promotes and organises instance runs, or other group content
• Is active in kin-chat, always polite and helpful - doesn't mind explaining things to newer players
• Is reliable, always turns up if they've said they will.
• Is regular, you can pretty much rely that they will be online and/or will turn up to most kin events anyway.
• Is enthusiastic, gets involved with kin stuff
• Is humble. Doesn't abuse their greater experience and perceived status.

Some kin officers may have specific duties depending on their interests, like, responsibility to run the kin lottery (or some other kin event), but in general, I look on officers as a point of contact within the kin, that other kin members can look to for leadership, and will encourage greater cooperation between members to group up and do stuff together.

I don't believe the lack of specific defined responsibilities causes burnout UNLESS that officer is being left with the lions share of everything. Which begs the question: what are the other officers doing? Are they actually suitable as officers?

I did have one long term kin member ask me in private why he was not an officer, when 2 of the other ppl who joined around the same time were. The truth was that although he was a frequent/regular player, he didn't often get involved in either kin events or kin chat. It seemed to me he wanted the faux-prestige of the officer title. I had never considered him officer material before our chat, and I didn't after it too.

It's always a good idea to know what is expected before accepting. For an established kin, I would say the best qualities of an officer are tact and discretion. Anytime you have groups of people, there is eventually going to be drama and dissension over something, can you recognize it and work to resolve it (work with the other officers to do so). Can you take a step back and objectively state an issue without taking it personally?

If you do accept, don't be afraid to return to member status if you find out that you don't like the role, or that it takes too much time.

Thanks Skadoink.

You mentioned experience. Well, to be honest, I don't have much of it. I do not have a high level toon, in comparison with the rest of my kin....so, I couldn't possibly be the right candidate for officer duties, other than perhaps recruiting low level players and then mentoring them in some capacity that I'd be able to. I get a suspicious feeling that when new players are given an officer role without explanation of what is expected....it's because they want you to fill a very generalized position, and they're counting on your naivity about the whole situation before you end up saying "no" to the offer.

Originally Posted by skadoink

Of course, there's the usual caveat: it depends on the kin, but....

What I look for in an officer is leadership - this can take many forms including:

• Promotes and organises instance runs, or other group content
• Is active in kin-chat, always polite and helpful - doesn't mind explaining things to newer players
• Is reliable, always turns up if they've said they will.
• Is regular, you can pretty much rely that they will be online and/or will turn up to most kin events anyway.
• Is enthusiastic, gets involved with kin stuff
• Is humble. Doesn't abuse their greater experience and perceived status.

Some kin officers may have specific duties depending on their interests, like, responsibility to run the kin lottery (or some other kin event), but in general, I look on officers as a point of contact within the kin, that other kin members can look to for leadership, and will encourage greater cooperation between members to group up and do stuff together.

I don't believe the lack of specific defined responsibilities causes burnout UNLESS that officer is being left with the lions share of everything. Which begs the question: what are the other officers doing? Are they actually suitable as officers?

I did have one long term kin member ask me in private why he was not an officer, when 2 of the other ppl who joined around the same time were. The truth was that although he was a frequent/regular player, he didn't often get involved in either kin events or kin chat. It seemed to me he wanted the faux-prestige of the officer title. I had never considered him officer material before our chat, and I didn't after it too.

I would NOT worry about your LotRO knowledge. It is more important in a kin officer that they be caring about the folks in their kinship. If someone has questions about LotRO that you can't answer, then it's something that both you and the person asking can learn together!

Your primary job as an officer isn't to be something that the /advice channel can give, but to be there for your kinnies. If that is something that appeals to you, then I think you should give it a try.

Np, btw, that was just a list, and not necessarily exhaustive. It's not a test (get 100% and you're an officer), just some possible attributes of what I look for. Experience is useful, but not essential. Tbh, my original post only remarks about experience in the context of 'officer material' not abusing their (if they have it) greater experience. Shukar said it well

Definately talk to your leader if you're worried about overwhelming duties, or the drama that may ensue with higher level players being overlooked, but honestly, the fact that you're asking likely is a reason the position was offered to you. In my experience, officers can't be expected to know everything, but your willingness to go out and seek the answer? Thats the start of a great officer. On top of that, you've already stated that you to help with crafting etc, and you seem to have a fairly open dialog with your leader. With those qualities, especially in a small kin, I have no problem seeing why the leader felt they could trust you in an officer position, regardless of your level of lotro experience.

Like someone already stated, just be you. Officers serve best as role-models, regardless of their 'duties'; the standard you set simply by the way you participate in your kin goes a long way to encourage the same in your mates. They see you welcoming new members to the kin, or helping a group through their first GB run, or crafting whats needed, and they will come to reflect that. Getting promoted doesn't mean the leader is expecting you to be Super Oshy, it means they think regular OshyKoshy already reflects what they want the kin to be.

Originally Posted by OshyKoshy

Hi Tiboric

thanks for your response.

I noticed that the officer role you've observed is generously broad. I mean, it appears that an officer role entails being the somebody that wears multiple hats, and can multi-task to a certain degree. You know what I conclude about that observation?

OFFICER BURNOUT......and then maybe a little resentment.....equals no fun at all.

The kin I am in is still relatively small in recruits and kin members. So, it's not likely that officer duties will be subdivided into a specific role per officer. There also aren't enough officers to fulfill specific duties (ie. crafting, events planner, recruitment, welcome wagon, etc). However, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to bring forth these concerns to the leader. The last thing an officer or kinship needs is an exhausted officer doing double-duty, over-time, and silently suffering.

Does anyone else have more to add, specifically about officer duties, how to handle the mayhem of rapid recruiting, and how to manage duties without going crazy?

thanks for your time

I have one character in a Kin that is not all my own Real Life family so I am going to respond from what I experience with her.

That character got made an officer of the Kin after about 2 weeks specifically because I was constantly answering questions of new players in kin chat.

As an officer she is expected to keep doing this. Help with crafting, assist with group quests as she can, run skirms and dungeons with other members.

It does get VERY overwhelming at times. I just had to learn to either say no when I really had had enough or simply play another character/log out when no wasn't an option. Recently I have been dealing with a very nasty summer cold, but because I work so hard when I am there on my officer character the kin has had no problem with me being offline quite a bit the last few days.

My best advice. Do your best. Learn your limits. Talk to your kin leader if you feel like they are expecting you to exceed your limits and see if you can work something out. NEVER let being an officer ruin the fun for you!

Originally Posted by OshyKoshy

The kin I am in is still relatively small in recruits and kin members. So, it's not likely that officer duties will be subdivided into a specific role per officer. There also aren't enough officers to fulfill specific duties (ie. crafting, events planner, recruitment, welcome wagon, etc).

It may make a bit of difference whether your kin is small because the kin leader wants to keep it small or whether it's small because it's relatively new or hasn't had much luck with recruiting. If your kin leader wants the kin to grow, that's one reason for appointing more officers, because officers are able to recruit new people into the kinship.

Originally Posted by OshyKoshy

I do not have a high level toon, in comparison with the rest of my kin....so, I couldn't possibly be the right candidate for officer duties

If a kinship is highly focused on end-game raids and PvP, then having your character at level cap is important. (Some of these kins don't even recruit members until they're at level cap.) But if your kin's focus isn't just on end-game, then you don't need a high level character. Indeed, if all the officers were at end-game, they wouldn't have much chance to help or interact with other players at other levels. In some kinships, officers whose characters get too high-leveled are likely to abandon that character to start a new alt specifically so that they can have low or mid level characters which are more helpful to the rest of the kin.

As a Founder & Leader of many Guilds/Kinships/Clans over the years, picking my Officers was always the toughest, most time-consuming, and most daunting part of the role. The Officers can make or break a Kinship and I've experienced both. The main characteristics that I looked for in appointing Officers were/are:

• Regular and frequent play-time - If the Kin is not focused in a single or close set of time zones, I would personally make a point of playing in every time slot whenever possible to look for Officers in those slots.
• Active participation in Kin Chat discussions and banter as well as the following courtesies...
  • greeting new recruits
  • greeting players as they come online
  • saying goodnight, cya later, or whatever when someone is logging off
  • saying hello when they themselves come online and goodbye when leaving
• Friendly with an unselfish willingness to help other members.
• Enthusiasm toward Kin activities and the game in general.
• Forum participation - not necessarily a lot of posts but frequent use of the forums to stay abreast of current affairs and to gain knowledge of the game in general.

Once I had chosen an Officer and they accepted, this is what I expected of them unless they were given a specific role such as Quarter-Master, Recruitment, Morale, Raid, etc.:

• All of the above.
• Actively looking for recruits even if we were not in a recruitment push.
• Behave as a leader, not as a ruler
• Represent the Kinship in a courteous and friendly manner
• Be active, as much as possible, in Kin activities and attend Officer meetings when and if called.
• Be honest and straightforward with me as Leader in their views and opinions.
• Most importantly, HAVE FUN. If the player is not having fun as an Officer, then they should say so and either step down or help find a solution.

In the few instances where I joined a Kinship or similar group in other games, and was appointed as an Officer, those were the guidelines that I set for myself whether they were specifically stated or not.

Good luck and HAVE FUN if you do become an Officer.

You've gotten some great information. Now on to what no one wants to talk about:

While I did not read everything in detail, the one thing I'd add is that a good officer does NOT/EVER get personally involved with any drama of the moment that may arise. NEVER take sides in the emotions and drama of the moment. It is an officer's job to stand back, gather information, remain neutral for the moment, "separate" those involved, and feed information to whoever is responsible for dealing with the drama and, usually, the associated aggregious behavior.

If you are the one responsible for dealing with drama, step back and do not knee-jerk. You must instead, "separate" the two or three individuals in some fashion, and write down what you think happened, consult with whoever in the kinship hierarchy should be consulted with on matters like this, and then decide what to do and how to do it. Then do it. You must be the impartial judge, relying on the information you have to make as fair and impartial a judgement as you can.

This may make you unpopular with whoever your judgement is "against" but oh, well. Get over it.

If you aren't mature enough to stay neutral in the emotional moment, do the info gathering and report it as accurately as you can to those responsible, or are not mature enough to make and enforce the judgement, and deal with arrows shot in your direction, then, yes, you probably shouldn't take the job.

In my years of experience, this is the hardest job in the kin/guild any officer has, and if your kin does not have a publically stated code of conduct agreed to by all members as a part of joining, if your kin takes all and sundry with no application and review process, then the kin officer hierarchy is asking for trouble in dealing with aggregious behavior by a member. I mean, people are people and they bring their issues in RL into the kinship, just like they bring their issues into their RL personal and business relationships. Neither they nor you can avoid this; so the old motto is true: be prepared, and act fairly.

Good luck!