Thread: Reactions to PvMP dev diary

Was curious what Imladris thinks of the new proposals for the "reimagining" of the moors... I've heard a lot of positive things on creepside, but think it would be fun to have a conversation serverwide.

I am optimistic the changes will make the moors much more enjoyable but skeptical at the same time.

Anyways, I'm at work and bored and don't have anything better to do than read qq posts about class nerfs and buffs and claims of OPness.

I like landscape changes, is not like having a new map, but it's something. However, I don't liek what they're doing with keeps/OPs/Delving. This will not incentive pvp at all, people will want to flip stuff all the time, and yes, there will be some defending it, but both factions will be concentrated to get the keep, not for the pvp.

Also, if lets say creeps control a lot of keeps, and freeps are defending the only one they got, they will not stand a chance unless they outnumber creeps by a lot with all the buffs creeps get, I mean, ranger sucks, it doesent help them at all

I love the lowering of skills/traits cost, that was really needed.
I don't like new audacity and that freeps get 10% discount and creeps don't.

They think that removing comms on some quest will make people less interested in pve? Pretty sure people want comms now because prices are ridiculous but infamy is the second reason. You can get the same infamy completing a quest than killing someone solo(a bit less).

Reaver changes seem good, defiler new skill will totally suck, and inc healing/damage buffs are nice but not sure how they will implement them.

Originally Posted by Inglaran

I like landscape changes, is not like having a new map, but it's something. However, I don't liek what they're doing with keeps/OPs/Delving. This will not incentive pvp at all, people will want to flip stuff all the time, and yes, there will be some defending it, but both factions will be concentrated to get the keep, not for the pvp.

Also, if lets say creeps control a lot of keeps, and freeps are defending the only one they got, they will not stand a chance unless they outnumber creeps by a lot with all the buffs creeps get, I mean, ranger sucks, it doesent help them at all

This is the source of my skepticism. On one hand I think it will add a lot of dynamics to the map, but you're right, it has a high potential to backfire. Ultimately I think it will come down to the player base and the style of play. The potential for large groups to ball together and zerg the map is high, but I think if the outnumbered side plays smart they can try to force the zerg to split.

For example, if there is a group of 20 freeps and have 4/5 keeps and all 3 OPs vs. 10 creeps, the creeps will have to split into groups to take the OPs in order to turn the tide of battle while the freeps continue to take keeps. In this scenario a group of 3 creeps could travel around and flip the OPs while the remaining 7 defend the keep. After a couple OPs flip the odds of 20 v. 7 could lead to a wipe... and if the freeps want to take those OPs, they will be forced to splinter into groups.

Scenarios like this depend also on control of the relics, but could be a great gameplay mechanic for the moors. One thing is for sure though, open field battles will be far less likely and will probably only occur when a group is caught trying to ninja an OP/keep/relic.

Originally Posted by Tristhoth

For example, if there is a group of 20 freeps and have 4/5 keeps and all 3 OPs vs. 10 creeps, the creeps will have to split into groups to take the OPs in order to turn the tide of battle while the freeps continue to take keeps. In this scenario a group of 3 creeps could travel around and flip the OPs while the remaining 7 defend the keep. After a couple OPs flip the odds of 20 v. 7 could lead to a wipe... and if the freeps want to take those OPs, they will be forced to splinter into groups.

Scenarios like this depend also on control of the relics, but could be a great gameplay mechanic for the moors. One thing is for sure though, open field battles will be far less likely and will probably only occur when a group is caught trying to ninja an OP/keep/relic.

This is very true, and it's what it makes me sad. The only way you can win a zerg is PvEing, in a PvP zone. This won't make people less interested in PvE at all, au contraire, now everyone will want to flip everything for the shiny bonus rather than kill creeps/freeps (also they may have removed comms on keep flipping but NOT infamy, and with the comms price being lowered I belive noone's gonna miss it).


Of course you want these bonuses to PvP, but I don't think it can be called PvP, when someone fights with +50% damage, less incoming damage, extra outgoing healing etc..

Hard to tell if flipping will occur more or if people will keep sit. Both are pretty lame. It would be nice if an alert system would be added letting you know how many people just killed a guard at keep or outpost X (Old games have had this function). Keep farming you say? Use the backdoor. Also being a smaller server, say goodbye to 1v1s/small group action unless they add something similar to CM that is additionally immune to the zone buffs.

how its been said, the age of the solo is over... the age of the zerg is about to begin... A pvp zone based on pve for bonus? thats bad. So map is red, creeps have +40% damage, 1 more audacity point for relics, how will you ever solo a ranked creep like this? I pretty much already think audacity made CC depended classes like burg and LM bad in moors, now its going to be even worse. I dont know but if things really goes this way i'll just quit.

@apache: yeah organized 1v1s will be gone unless they designate a part of the map as immune to map wide buffs... but I did see someone post a question on the official thread asking if they would create an area on the map like this.

@liz: yep, soloing will be pretty much nonexistent and futile for either side, that is assuming they fix a few class balance issues...

I like bacon. It's tender and delicious.

Originally Posted by CantankerousTim

I like bacon. It's tender and delicious.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by CantankerousTim

I like bacon. It's tender and delicious.

I like the idea of the changes, but it won't do anything about the imbalance of the pvmp on the server. It might even make the imbalance bigger, because the creeps will hold the keeps and OP's most of the time, like they do now.

Originally Posted by Inglaran

au contraire

who are you

Originally Posted by Rogue17

who are you

Stuart: You can throw all the French around you want, it doesn't make you right.
Sheldon: Au contraire.

Originally Posted by Nyahh

how its been said, the age of the solo is over... the age of the zerg is about to begin... A pvp zone based on pve for bonus? thats bad. So map is red, creeps have +40% damage, 1 more audacity point for relics, how will you ever solo a ranked creep like this? I pretty much already think audacity made CC depended classes like burg and LM bad in moors, now its going to be even worse. I dont know but if things really goes this way i'll just quit.

Yes, such a zone would be good for those who like to solo, so lets hope they make such an area for you guys.
Eventhough I never solo myself- playing LM's only my class might not the most ideal for it.

I fear you are right, things do not look getting easier then for CC-depending classes. This is a highly discussed thread on the LM-forums as well. Being a supporter-class I actually don't mind being clothy squishy- for that I got a pet and just my CC.

But after audacity i time-stopped the nerfing effect:
* my longmezz of 30secs (35 with moorgear)= last 6 secs (or 7 secs with moorgear)
* my double-rooting of cracked-earth+herb of 40 secs = last 6-7 secs, and barely 5 secs if not dubbled

that's a juicy nerf to our classkills of about what- ... 80% roughly? (imagine they did that to mini's/rk's healing!)
And that applies even to our shortmezzes, who are supposed to buy us time to get off our long inductions.


Fazit:

It was hard enaugh to get Elen her Gear and a few ranks in the Moors. So Elbion will have to stick with the already grinded armour from Isen/Galtrev, and except for might a few social runs in Ettens, he will stay out of the Moors, its not worth it.

Greetings to you folks.


ElenEstel:
Ljus of Landroval (75)
Elbion of Imladris (75)

Originally Posted by CantankerousTim

I like bacon. It's tender and delicious.

Originally Posted by Tristhoth

Was curious what Imladris thinks of the new proposals for the "reimagining" of the moors... I've heard a lot of positive things on creepside, but think it would be fun to have a conversation serverwide.

I am optimistic the changes will make the moors much more enjoyable but skeptical at the same time.

Anyways, I'm at work and bored and don't have anything better to do than read qq posts about class nerfs and buffs and claims of OPness.

Well, I read, and re-rerad....and re re-read the info. It's....confusiong to see what will really happen. It does look like BA's will be even more dangerous...but that will have to be seen.

I do like the chance to get trolls out...well...besides the ones we get in open chat :P

I do understand they are trying to make monsters similar in power to players...but...um....were spose to not be equal...just more numerous...what Id like it to have the npcs for the creeps more in numbers...and somewhat more helpful (satnds in a sea of trolls while slowly getting killed....strange it didn't look like the sun was up..yet the trolls are standing as if stone)

The inf drop from quests is fine with me..it is a pvp zone, but........coms...well we eat them up fast in pots and the like...i'm wondering if there will be enough to keep stocked or if its going to be a constant drain on available coms....didn't really look at that too close though.

Thats most of what i see..random as it is......i'll be looking for you out there...run...run back to your friends..and nevermind that new arrow..its nothing to worry about...(group wide explosion with a cackle from afar)

Yes the monsters where always supposed to be more powerful in the books and movies while the free peoples where always the underdogs. So yeah creeps should have a little more advantage. Also ba is gonna be a little more powerful but a warg's Advanced Dissapear and Advanced Sprint are going to have a 3min CD instead of 5 min so in my opinion wargs are getting nerfed again. They also said that you would get roughly 100 commas a kill after ror launches which will take care with alot of grinding quests for comms. So besides 1v1 extinction i think it will be a pretty good expansion.

Thing is that creepside has more players than freepside.
In LOTR books, about 100 orcs(creeps) = 10 freeps, that can't happen in an online game, because people would obviously complain the imbalance in 1vs1, or when not so many are on to fill these 100 spots. Now, if they make 1 creep = 1 freep, the over population on creepside will make it more imbalanced hence there will be 100 creeps > 10 freeps.

Just comparing things, not real numbers.

Since the majority of my time in this game has been solo, on both sides of the map, I've kinda grown to despise grouping up.

Creepside, grouping up usually means I'm going to die, and probably die quite a lot, meaning a huge rating hit. This equates to less infamy gained for me, which just isn't something I look forward to.
On the other side, whatever, soloing is just fine by me, and once I get my freep to max level, you're not gonna see it in the moors cause I creep here. I've brought my freep into the moors ONCE so far since I've gone VIP, and that's only to say that I've been there. I'd like to get the map explored on my freep, but even that's not really a priority.

So now it looks like I'm gonna have to group more on creepside. UGH. Whatever, fine. Not like I've been creeping much lately anyway.

Like the new map, waiting for the warden changes.

As long as the warden changes nerf the class out of fotm status.