Thread: Does anyone know why Simon & Lewis are soo down on Lotro?

The Yogscast seems to utterly hate Lotro...

They've reviewed it twice in the past & said they had no interest, but this latest just seems to be a bit of extra vitriol. I am a bit baffled frankly. I get they didn't like the game back when, but this latest almost feels like there has to be something personal going on behind the scenes.



Just curious if anyone has any ideas why they'd take this pot shot? Just seems odd to me that they'd bother with the effort if there wasn't something underlying factor that would motivate them to do this...

*shrug*

Every good game has its haters.

And its fanbois.

Both types of web sites exist, both are as meaningless as each other.

All I've got to say is ... Who?

i have never heard of those guys so i dont really care..

I love Simon and Lewis <3 It's a bit disappointing they don't like LOTRO but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This game is not exactly the best MMO out there but it's kept me playing since the beginning - probably due to the fact that it's the first MMO I've played, and because I love the books so much.

Judging from the type of games they play it's understandable why they won't like it. Although the "unoriginal quests" comment makes me wonder what MMO has "original" quests - whatever that might mean. I've tried WAR, Aion, Rift, WoW, Age of Conan, and all the quests seemed to be the same... "Kill [x] amount of [y]" or " Gather [x] amount of [y]".

There's a lot of things other MMOs have done better than LOTRO (especially with PvP) but I'm not going to list them here. If someone is into PvP, then LOTRO will not be the game for them. PvP might be there for those of us who enjoy it but it is not exactly the best or most balanced PvP system out there.

They have two videos of their LOTRO reviews on youtube. Both are low level characters and I don't think one can get an appreciation of the game from that. I'm not sure how long they played before the F2P but I don't think it would have been long enough.

For them to be moaning about killing so many boars and what not, I highly doubt they made it past North Downs - if they even got that far. And, if that's the case, it's not exactly a fair "review". At least in their new videos (after F2P) they didn't get past lvl 5...

Obviously they tried the PvP

I disagree - their review is more weak and uneducated than particularly negative. It's not that bad. A lot of us could write much better "negative" reviews of the game [and of course glowing reviews too].

I don't think they would convince anyone they knew what the were talking about - or really knew the game.

This basic idea I can support: The generic quests - kill X - is so old school. This is 2012. So in this basic feeling I can agree with them. Also, leveling in Lotro can be pretty slow and repetitive - another quest! So while I think they are pretty clueless, some of their points are not too far off. But yes, not a very good review.

Who cares about the Yogscast? All they do is play minecraft and cater to their rabid fanbois.

Here what I have to say about Simon and Lewis. There Quality in Reviews are lacking and they seem to be trolls.

I have to admit, even though the commentary seems a little misinformed, the final exhortation of "Ride with us! Please? Please! Pleeeeaaasse..." had me laughing so loud I woke someone else up. I was picturing someone in Turbine's marketing department whose job is depending on pre-purchase revenues making a similar plea.

Perhaps if Turbine had included a similar voice-over with the apparel dummies "Buy our clothes! Please! Come on, you know you want to." the uproar would have been one of laughter instead of indignation.

Originally Posted by Fredelas

I have to admit, even though the commentary seems a little misinformed, the final exhortation of "Ride with us! Please? Please! Pleeeeaaasse..." had me laughing so loud I woke someone else up. I was picturing someone in Turbine's marketing department whose job is depending on pre-purchase revenues making a similar plea.

Perhaps if Turbine had included a similar voice-over with the apparel dummies "Buy our clothes! Please! Come on, you know you want to." the uproar would have been one of laughter instead of indignation.

Hahaha EXACTLY what I was thinking!

Ok so they diss Lotro. So what? They are still very funny

Originally Posted by Catisa

All I've got to say is ... Who?

Originally Posted by EggandBacon

i have never heard of those guys so i dont really care..

Exactly...!

FYI: The bulk of the Yogscast crew dislike MMOs in general...

That video was terrible, it was just a stab at the game. There weren't very valid points in their argument why the game is bad.

Terrible, terrible video.

They are entitled to have their opinions whether we like it or not.

Game reviews (and most other reviews) are purely subjective. Personally I think the guys over at YC have very little knowledge of gaming, but somehow they still get showered by fan culture.

I have never bought / not bought a game based on what reviewers think. I always download demos and get my own impressions. By all means, I READ reviews and forum posts regarding games, but my personal experience is that I often find games, that reviewers hate, awesome and vice versa. Being a veteran gamer coming up on 30 years of experience I have played my fair share of games that reviewers lashed out at. Some was indeed utter garbage, but some was awesome.

That's the "wonderful" thing about gaming - subjectivity

Z.

Originally Posted by Zhira

They are entitled to have their opinions whether we like it or not.

Game reviews (and most other reviews) are purely subjective. Personally I think the guys over at YC have very little knowledge of gaming, but somehow they still get showered by fan culture.

I have never bought / not bought a game based on what reviewers think. I always download demos and get my own impressions. By all means, I READ reviews and forum posts regarding games, but my personal experience is that I often find games, that reviewers hate, awesome and vice versa. Being a veteran gamer coming up on 30 years of experience I have played my fair share of games that reviewers lashed out at. Some was indeed utter garbage, but some was awesome.

That's the "wonderful" thing about gaming - subjectivity

Z.

So true. I've loved a few games that got terrible reviews, and despised some that were supposedly the greatest game ever created. Moral of the story, download the demo, reviews don't tell the whole story. This review in particular doesn't really say anything(the video in the OP). If you're gonna knock something, at least have a couple of points as to why it's bad. "We don't like it, therefore it's bad, because we say so."-Isn't going to sway many opinions(intelligent ones at least).

Ermm, did they make any points? Killing tonnes of stuff is boring? Seems you could make that video and substitute LotRO with any mmo out there and it would be just as valid.

Thanks for the vid though, they may be funny but at least I now know not to take them seriously.

Originally Posted by Zhira

Game reviews (and most other reviews) are purely subjective.
That's the "wonderful" thing about gaming - subjectivity
Z.

But you can make some objective points. At least good reviewers do.

They're not really into Tolkien, so their views are based on just the game itself. And let's face it, the game is pretty poor. In fact it's very poor without that Tolkien element.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

They're not really into Tolkien, so their views are based on just the game itself. And let's face it, the game is pretty poor. In fact it's very poor without that Tolkien element.

And what is 'very poor' here?

Originally Posted by Wanderv

And what is 'very poor' here?

- slow gameplay
- limited animation graphics
- dire PvP system
- laggy servers
- endless grind for just about everything now
- cashcow featured everywhere you look


Most of it is just because the system is outdated, so it can actually be salvaged

I've never heard of these guys either, so I'm not really bothered by their commentary. In fact, I found it rather humorous. That part at the end though... pondering whether Turbine is just throwing out pricey expansions just to milk a final few dollars from the game. That one stung a little close to home. >.>

^{​haha they sound like they dont know anything about lotro XD "I think it went F2p but i can't guarantee that" lol}

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

- slow gameplay - I like the pace of combat just fine.
- limited animation graphics - I find the animations fine.
- dire PvP system - you got me there.
- laggy servers - I don't experience lag.
- endless grind for just about everything now - completely agree!
- cashcow featured everywhere you look - I ignore the clothing dummies and store button. It's like TV commercials. Do something else while they're on. Do something else while the game is loading and you won't see the loading ads.


Most of it is just because the system is outdated, so it can actually be salvaged

All in all I think this is the best MMO I've ever played. That's probably why I've played this one the longest. Having said that, I never would have tried the game if it wasn't based on LOTR.

Originally Posted by Jarryd

Does anyone know why Simon & Lewis are soo down on Lotro?

Who???

1. Never heard of them.

2. Haters gonna hate.

Originally Posted by AnElephant

^{​haha they sound like they dont know anything about lotro XD "I think it went F2p but i can't guarantee that" lol}

And I thought it was sarcasm :P

Originally Posted by Lykena

Although the "unoriginal quests" comment makes me wonder what MMO has "original" quests...

FFXI's quest system was vastly different from the "Kill X of Y / Deliver X to Y / Fetch X from Y" formula. Quests there were almost completely divorced from character advancement, rewards were primarily reputation or further quest/area/zone access, and were heavily story-driven (makes LotRO's quests look like the generic busywork they are). Unfortunately, the entire system was mostly ignored because the vast majority of quests weren't mandatory for advancement.

their pc can't handle the graphics

They sound like idiots. Who cares.

Originally Posted by CWood

FFXI's quest system was vastly different from the "Kill X of Y / Deliver X to Y / Fetch X from Y" formula. Quests there were almost completely divorced from character advancement, rewards were primarily reputation or further quest/area/zone access, and were heavily story-driven (makes LotRO's quests look like the generic busywork they are). Unfortunately, the entire system was mostly ignored because the vast majority of quests weren't mandatory for advancement.

Which FFXI were you playing, because it's not the one I've played since '05 and do so still?

If you strip away the cut-scenes and other story-telling mechanics .. which I don't suggest you do normally, SE's story telling is wonderful and hugely superior to Turbine's .. the quests themselves really are the standard 7 kind of MMO quests.

The S.O.B. quest-line, the various job AF quest sets, etc. really are Fedex/go-find/go-get/go-kill type.

Well, not quite the insider info I was hoping for, but it was a shot in the dark afterall...

So no one witnessed them perhaps having some kind of heated verbal exchange at a convention, or something of the like, that would lead to bad blood? Nope, doesn't look to be the case.

Ah well, pity they bother. I personally hate WoW, but beyond the passing comment in a thread... I would never make the effort to put out a video slamming it. Everyone has different tastes. I was just surprised that after reviewing it twice in the past and not showing it in a positive light, that they'd return yet again after all this time, to say more negative things. Made me curious that there might be more to the story then the surface of it.

As to who they are? Pretty much the biggest youtube 'gamer' themed channels. Their vids are frequently in the most viewed in overall themed vids & always at the top of the gamer section. They are affiliated with 'The Game Station,' which is a network of vloggers, much like machinima, only less corporate & more grass roots among gamers.

It is a pity for LotRO, because if fence sitters are contemplating trying the game, well... it doesn't take much to push a fence sitter one way or the other. On youtube, these guys reach a lot of viewers. I am just glad they placed this on an alternate channel in their network, rather than their main.

Before they was a minecraft channel they was very much a WOW channel and with that a feeling any other similar mmo is substandard.

Probably they are neither role players nor lovers of middle earth. I haven't gone to their site but I'd wager that it is a typical site where they've played every MMO ever made, they love the ones with awesome graphics that require $2000 gaming rigs, they love the ones with massive world PvP, they love the ones with spiky armor bits, they love the intricate dungeons that separate worthy players from noobs who should go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

In short, they're probably gamerz. Gamerz love to hate things.

Looking at their videos about GW2 it looks like they had a lot of fun with that game and the difference between how ArenaNet has been handling the hype build-up of GW2 and the how they have implemented that game versus how Turbine handles the hyping for Lotro and how they have implemented Lotro could explain why those two guys like the former but apparently not the latter.

For example, has Turbine offered them to participate in a press beta for Rohan? Has Turbine even considered setting up a well prepared press beta? I don't have the impression that's the case. In fact Turbine didn't apparently really care about the session they had with the guy from the Ten Ton Hammer website either, because if they would have actually cared about how their game comes across in the stream and how it is presented then they would first and foremost have switched the server to day light instead of leaving it at night time with the consequence that the viewers could barely see what's going on. Planning a nice sight seeing tour with a bunch of teasers and nice vistas upfront wouldn't have hurt either.

Another example is general game play. Lotro's game play feels slow compared to other MMOs and especially slow compared to GW2. Note that this is not about the speed of combat - this is about how the game feels because of the length of induction times, cool down times and whether you're able to move your toon while using an ability.

Many things in Lotro have induction times that make your head scratch and wonder why the induction times are so long. Even such trivial things as smelting a piece of ore takes long compared to other games or even just leaving an instance through the "Leave Instance" context menu item takes forever. Many of the combat abilities that require inductions root you in place (but for some mysterious reason not all of them). Many abilities that do not have inductions can not be used while running and you get an annoying error sound instead. Other games give the player more flexibility in this regard and do not force him so much to wait for the sake of waiting and it appears that Simon & Lewis really do not like the kind of game that make you wait for the sake of waiting - hence why they loved playing GW2 so much. Note that induction times in GW2 are very short compared to Lotro across the board and you can use all abilities - including induction based ones - while running.

The user interface in Lotro is also nothing to write home about. It is very restricted and forces the player to click and click and click and click some more and because clicking so much is that much fun we make the user click 20 times more. Respeccing an LI is just horrible in this game because every single time you assign a point to a legacy it asks you whether you are sure. Neither the WoW nor the GW2 make you click like a mad man to get things done. So I'm not surprised if the Lotro UI alone turns off a game tester right from the start. Not to mention that the art style of the UI clashes with the art style of the game world.

I personally love the world design of this game and that it is a seamless world (and this is an area where GW2 fails spectacularly in my book), but the UI, the needless slowness all across the game and Turbine's typically amateurish behavior as a business do certainly not help to win over any game tester.

It is to my eternal shame that these idiots appear to be British.

Looked at a small sample of their output, and al I can say is "Why would anyone care what they think?"

There are (many) times when I feel that while the Internet makes it easy for people to communicate, it doesn't mean that everyone should.

Originally Posted by mjk47

It is to my eternal shame that these idiots appear to be British.

Looked at a small sample of their output, and al I can say is "Why would anyone care what they think?"

There are (many) times when I feel that while the Internet makes it easy for people to communicate, it doesn't mean that everyone should.

Minecraft has made a lot of Youtube celebs these days. They have *some* entertaining content, especially when you can separate the people from the characters they portray.

That said, as I said before, generally speaking they aren't very keen on MMOs overall, and neither of them have done much in the way of reading the Professor's work on LOTR and have relegated themselves to labeling the game against their experiences with the movies.

They have fallen into the lot of people who believe that GW2 is some second-coming in MMOs though, and with that I lead myself more to enjoy another Brit Youtuber, TotalBiscuit, which has shown more oft than not that if a game is good, the game is good, and if the game has faults, it will be stated in a non-bias manner.

Simon & Lewis are actually not very good gamers, but that's what make their videos valuable. They consistently show how games look like through the eyes of the average gamers.

Of course they would go off hyperbole and exaggerate for dramatic and comedy effects, but their criticisms aren't that far off the line. We certainly were made to kill pigs and boars even in ROI, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were more in ROR.

If this wasn't Middle Earth and you weren't a fan of Tolkien, would you be playing this game? If your answer leans towards no, then you aren't really disagreeing with Simon & Lewis. They've made no comments on the game's lore and settings, it's the gameplay they have issues with.

When I see other revievs of Turbine's games, I sometimes wonder if Turbine is paying revievers

But back on topic, that video is weak, bellow level of Beavis and Butthead's jokes

I like the yogscast. Maybe they don't have exactly the same taste in games as I do, but they're generally entertaining and they often make decent, though also sometimes uninformed, points. But they're not professional reviewers, so they don't have to be informed.

Anyway, they played a lot of WoW or at least used to, don't know if they still do or not. So they're likely just tired of the whole MMO grind, and in that sense, starting a character from scratch in LoTRO is just more of the same if you're not a fan of Tolkien.