Thread: Changes on the way...

http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/devdiaries/2236-riders-of-rohan-developer-diary-the-ettenmoors

The Warden Ettenmoors armour sets FTW!

wow I read the whole thing. Im liking the changes this will bring the moors closer back to the way things use to be. also with these changes we will have much better fights i think and alot more ways to FLANK. its about time moors got a full makeover.

Well it does look pretty neat....but it also looks like hunters continue to to get the shaft by the developers (on the other hand, freepstalker is almost purring).

Good Hunting,

Ell

Having everything actually mean something will be wonderful. Will make leading groups/raids much more interesting.

...or does it mean on smaller servers like crick...you're going to have 1 (maybe 2 groups) each side running around all corners of the map not intentionally engaging an enemy until they've got enough of the buffs rolling.....

....i.e. Outpost whack-o-mole.

The large map control bonuses dramatically reduce the viability of solo/1v1 play....you'll have large swings in your dps based on faction map control alone.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

...or does it mean on smaller servers like crick...you're going to have 1 (maybe 2 groups) each side running around all corners of the map not intentionally engaging an enemy until they've got enough of the buffs rolling.....

....i.e. Outpost whack-o-mole.

The large map control bonuses dramatically reduce the viability of solo/1v1 play....you'll have large swings in your dps based on faction map control alone.

I totally agree and was commenting same to quag this morning....this will be great for the 'group or die' crew, but those of us that are here for single combat get shafted.

Good Hunting,

Ell

So Wargs will have disappear every 3m but hunters DF in combat (20m cooldown) is still OP?...

*boggles*

Originally Posted by chrisCML

...or does it mean on smaller servers like crick...you're going to have 1 (maybe 2 groups) each side running around all corners of the map not intentionally engaging an enemy until they've got enough of the buffs rolling.....

....i.e. Outpost whack-o-mole.

The large map control bonuses dramatically reduce the viability of solo/1v1 play....you'll have large swings in your dps based on faction map control alone.

Don't forget the people who are gonna flip to the side that has the bonuses which means more zergs yay

How will 1v1's ever happen again to be even at that ? one sides gunna have both relics or one sides gunna have more keeps/ops . Anyways I do like the map changes etc Also the changes being made to creeps, Li's for r10+ so the dedicated freeps dont have to skraid yay . What I do disagree on is for some reason I have a feeling like my fellow pvper's above me have said that Alot of flippers alot of zerging . Other then that everything looks pretty legit

Originally Posted by Spider29

Don't forget the people who are gonna flip to the side that has the bonuses which means more zergs yay

the incentive to fight on on the losing side seems missing.....

So your options are join the "winning" side and receive a nice damage buff combined with increased kill reward gains......or.....get farmed?....hmmmmmm I wonder what people will do.

the nerfing of PvE rewards, while encouraging actual pvp(good), removes peripheral PvE as an attractive option to at least keep the losing side on the map when overwhelmed (bad).

Currently I would solo/1v1 away from the zerg as an option, but that too is being made less viable come RoR.

Zerg or be zerged....RoR PvP?

boost creep skills is wht annoy's me

warg with a skill that hit for 10% from target morale and hips/spritn go down to 3 min cd's ( lmao like they need more starhug skills )
spider can steal mits up to 30% ( !!!!!!! ) light armor will have zero mits lol
difler get heals from there aoe attacks ( lol rly how freeps gonna kill defliers )
revears get mits boost and when they lose morale gets dps boost ( this 1 is not bad since reavers need some love )

gurad armor is the same too no changes


all i can say ./clap

and no more 1v1 ^^ or at least fun/good 1v1's

The new creep skills seem good on paper, but they will probably be underwhelming just like the previously added skills.

"new skills for each Creep class, along with an OVERALL balance adjustment on Creep damage and healing to ensure they are commensurate with Freep values."

Wargs and BAs will probably be close to the values that most average/decent geared freeps are at right now. Give the freeps their new gear and you're right back where you started. This overall balance stuff never works.. it's a temporary, slack &&& solution; I'm sure freeps will be back to out-healing, out-CCing, out-DPSing, and out-surviving creep side within a couple months of the update dropping.

Not that any of this matters since most of this update caters to zerg ballers and those who want to PvE for constant buffs. Prepare for imminent troll/ranger spam on Crickhollow btw.

Just glad to see Reavers get some love, although you never know how many it will take to take down a mini or a warden.

looks good, I hope it turns out to be an improvement. It will at least be different...

I don't see LMs getting much love. Looks like our 10 second solo battles will be 8 seconds now.

But the good news is that it'll be much more group play, so our debuffs etc. will be of more use.

Am I missing something.. ? I had just read/skim'd through the dev diary.

I truly am sick with a high grade fever, hence why I am even writing on the forums and up at this hour..

But uhm, where is the losing side incentive? All I see for crick is zerg one side or other depending who controls map. I feel like I missed something in my read of it.. cause, I don't get how this new system promotes anything beyond flip-flopping zergfests.

And what Dusk said about 'whack-a-mole' with the Outposts. Looks like removing PvE gains.. for, well.. PvE gains that cut into time people actually spend beating the snot out of each other. I dare say.. to an even worse extent than what exists now as it will make more freeps, and not just mostly creeps at present, spend their playing time in the moors doing PvE activities. Fail.

Delving being made useful, cool.. wish it was also turned into a dp haven again for both sides to utalize as that would attract more attention. But the whole reason turbine made comms was to remove dp, so tp was used more for buffs with the near absense of dp.. hence more money made. All the logical people, and spoiled kids/adults asking for this that and the other doesn't have the same impact as the all mighty dollar. Justifying making an r15 creep brand usable at any rank as 'balance' out of lootboxes is rather silly and proves its about more USD than game growth.. which pretty much shows how lazy this dev team, and turbine as a whole is, concerning the ettenmoors.

Further proof for the lack of insight, and how lazy they are.. NO F'IN CLUBS for the r10+ LIs?! Where are my midget racial trait bonus clubs? That's cool the other races are taken care of.. but why neglect one of the races? Personally annoyed by this.. sure, an easy second age for me right off the bat and would prefer one that lets me do more dmg than other weapon types, like everyone else. Just pointing this out to showcase, again, how lazy and lack of effort they really do put in the moors.

Don't get me started on the freep armor gear.. christ, again.. lack of insight and looks completely thrown together in a 20 minute meeting on a Wednesday afternoon that ended early half way through cause the lead dev spilled mountain dew on his 5 buck tee-shirt he got at a Radiohead concert off a roady named Puck. Rollar coaster of either completely lackluster or completely overpowering set bonuses. These guys don't seem to know a damn thing.

Creep bonuses. I skim'd this too much, admittedly. Concentrated on WL cause I hope every day for a WL change that actually makes the two stances, you know, unique and do what they say. Oh well.. so much for that. Apparently too logical to make brute stance, a brute.. and healing more viable in ALL healing intensive circumstances, unlike how its a flop now.

Wargs.. just what we needed. More star huggers. We certainly didn't have enough already.. (did I read it wrong tho and detect a flayer nerf?)

I hope creeps get skills/revisions that they want, honestly I do. Hoped my wl would have, did not with current knowledge.

I'm hoping for the best, I like some of what I had read. Hoping for the best, but am now expecting the worst. That dev diary just proved to me how far out of touch the people behind this game are now. Oh well.. I'm going to vent by flopping in fights and then df'ing my group to amuse myself with my awesome new skill..

- Kick

Originally Posted by ButternutsMacGuyver

Am I missing something.. ? I had just read/skim'd through the dev diary.

I truly am sick with a high grade fever, hence why I am even writing on the forums and up at this hour..

But uhm, where is the losing side incentive? All I see for crick is zerg one side or other depending who controls map. I feel like I missed something in my read of it.. cause, I don't get how this new system promotes anything beyond flip-flopping zergfests.

And what Dusk said about 'whack-a-mole' with the Outposts. Looks like removing PvE gains.. for, well.. PvE gains that cut into time people actually spend beating the snot out of each other. I dare say.. to an even worse extent than what exists now as it will make more freeps, and not just mostly creeps at present, spend their playing time in the moors doing PvE activities. Fail.

Delving being made useful, cool.. wish it was also turned into a dp haven again for both sides to utalize as that would attract more attention. But the whole reason turbine made comms was to remove dp, so tp was used more for buffs with the near absense of dp.. hence more money made. All the logical people, and spoiled kids/adults asking for this that and the other doesn't have the same impact as the all mighty dollar. Justifying making an r15 creep brand usable at any rank as 'balance' out of lootboxes is rather silly and proves its about more USD than game growth.. which pretty much shows how lazy this dev team, and turbine as a whole is, concerning the ettenmoors.

Further proof for the lack of insight, and how lazy they are.. NO F'IN CLUBS for the r10+ LIs?! Where are my midget racial trait bonus clubs? That's cool the other races are taken care of.. but why neglect one of the races? Personally annoyed by this.. sure, an easy second age for me right off the bat and would prefer one that lets me do more dmg than other weapon types, like everyone else. Just pointing this out to showcase, again, how lazy and lack of effort they really do put in the moors.

Don't get me started on the freep armor gear.. christ, again.. lack of insight and looks completely thrown together in a 20 minute meeting on a Wednesday afternoon that ended early half way through cause the lead dev spilled mountain dew on his 5 buck tee-shirt he got at a Radiohead concert off a roady named Puck. Rollar coaster of either completely lackluster or completely overpowering set bonuses. These guys don't seem to know a damn thing. ~ I almost spit my coffee all over when I read this! lol

Creep bonuses. I skim'd this too much, admittedly. Concentrated on WL cause I hope every day for a WL change that actually makes the two stances, you know, unique and do what they say. Oh well.. so much for that. Apparently too logical to make brute stance, a brute.. and healing more viable in ALL healing intensive circumstances, unlike how its a flop now.

Wargs.. just what we needed. More star huggers. We certainly didn't have enough already.. (did I read it wrong tho and detect a flayer nerf?)

I hope creeps get skills/revisions that they want, honestly I do. Hoped my wl would have, did not with current knowledge.

I'm hoping for the best, I like some of what I had read. Hoping for the best, but am now expecting the worst. That dev diary just proved to me how far out of touch the people behind this game are now. Oh well.. I'm going to vent by flopping in fights and then df'ing my group to amuse myself with my awesome new skill..

- Kick

Great points and opinions on the changes Kick, it's not often that you post to the forums - thanks for doing so.

/salute

Not sure if Crick situation changes that much to be honest. Well, other than being shafted in some areas that are usually "meh" anyway.


Lack of incentives for losing side - annoying issue that undermines entire new paradigm, not sure how they intend to prevent that without "flip CD". Which is not even an incentive.

...but I must've missed those great incentives for losing side that exist NOW :P Other than everybody *wants* to join losing side, as long as it's... everybody. Keep Flipstreak Fail ensues. So much for incentive - and for "losing side".


Imbalancing solo/1vs1 - yup, adding two more stackable buffs on each opponent provides a lot of different scenarios and escapes traditional balance.

...sorry, but that "traditional" balance was a load of horse... on Crick - or anywhere else. So many variables to account for even now - rank, Audacity, out-of-whack class matchups, store consumables, buffs, not to mention degree of un-development for some classes. Oh, and let's not forget "rules" for 1vs1 that seem to be different in each community with various "bad CDs & bad buffs". If anything, those additional buffs help to bring down that entire delusion about "good 1vs1" because you can't even pretend to balance various combinations of damage & mits with some &&&&&&&& "rule" pulled out of a random, arbitrary hat. Though, for some reason, it was possible with combination of factors I listed above, go figure - consistency FTW... It feels more like being attached to certain state of things and considering them "correct" or "better". As if having some random duel was not fun enough and required additional pretending one or two buffs can automatically remove. That 10% dmg buff is going to be ~5% real, tooltip increase, let's not pretend that present rank, gear & Audacity disparity between random opponents are so insignificant in comparison.


So I can encounter a Runekeeper with 15% advantage in dmg buff, he will crit-kill me 2 seconds faster. Later on I encounter the same Runekeeper, but this time I have 15% advantage in dmg and some mits. Fight gets more interesting - that's primary, result being secondary. Finally I run into some failhunter while having surreal 100% set of buffs - surprisingly, failhunter dies.

Today I encounter Runekeeper Phil, full Aud, FA & ToO jewels. Boom. Boom. Ka - boom. Later on I run into Runekeeper Louis, ToO set, crafted jewels, badly relic-ed SA, generally confused - and hey, he dies. Next time we fight, he makes sure there are some NPCs around so he has "dps buff". Finally, I run into failhunter and surprisingly, failhunter dies.

Arrrgh, solo play is so ruined, because differences between those fights are so... different. /sarcasm


- no more Candy - yup, unnecessary IMHO, people are attached to that institution, leaving some "classic" area for them would be reasonable; so now you know why it's not going to happen, Thor :/

- OPs zergfest & flip-flops - possible; but I have a feeling that Crick non-peak pop will lead to something "different": unbuffed group hugging a keep, buffed group standing outside, staring contests & usual bs shuffle until more people log-in and there is someone available to redistribute buffs - possibly even fights around contested OP - how often THAT happens today?; I have some degree of optimism left and hope people are not *stupid* enough to miss the simple fact: that oversealous flipflopping nets zero currency & infamy and additional zero if bored opposition logs; on the other hand - no more standing in one spot, expecting from opponents to constantly run to you in "Entertain meeee" attitude? very small, but still a win...


class bonuses etc - not Crick - related, but it can't be decribed any better... so let's quote it one more time

Originally Posted by ButternutsMacGuyver

Don't get me started on the freep armor gear.. christ, again.. lack of insight and looks completely thrown together in a 20 minute meeting on a Wednesday afternoon that ended early half way through cause the lead dev spilled mountain dew on his 5 buck tee-shirt he got at a Radiohead concert off a roady named Puck. Rollar coaster of either completely lackluster or completely overpowering set bonuses. These guys don't seem to know a damn thing.
I hope creeps get skills/revisions that they want, honestly I do. Hoped my wl would have, did not with current knowledge.

...either class devs prepared some huge revamps or, most likely, are out of touch with Etten team... and in some cases - their classes AND their grey matter... :/

Unsure why people keep saying *Insert Freep class here* Got the shaft! This was pvmp dev diary. Not an LM dev diary, not a hunter dev diary. Creep class changes were listed because they are exclusively a part of pvmp unlike freeps classes.

3 Minute HIPS cd will make crick worse than it is now as far as star-hugging, but ROI originally had Warg HIPS gated by r9. My point is, things are subject to change.

Thank god there are so many people who know everything and anything to tell the rest how it will turn out. They know what will fail and how it will fail...

Wait until live to QQ perhaps?

I am personally happy about the fact that there is a big change at all, I expected something like - creeps get 10% more dmg and mits and freeps get 1 more rank item.

Originally Posted by Cliffle

Prepare for imminent troll/ranger spam on Crickhollow btw.

One word: Prophet

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...81#post6303681

Originally Posted by Nifroth

Thank god there are so many people who know everything and anything to tell the rest how it will turn out. They know what will fail and how it will fail...

Wait until live to QQ perhaps?

I am personally happy about the fact that there is a big change at all, I expected something like - creeps get 10% more dmg and mits and freeps get 1 more rank item.

There is a reason why mmo companies tend to reveal info about up coming batches/expansions early as well as have the changes in a beta/test server 'world' before releasing. It's for feedback. It is better to &&&&& about problems in hopes they get resolved, before they are an actual problem in the game.

I understand that devs aren't playing the game as much as the average player, and they tend to suffer from tunnel vision because of their main projects and/or love for one particular area (which they might not be working on).. making them blind to other aspects they might not account for. Atleast, that is what I like to believe with a glass half full rather than them simply half &&&'ing the moors.

I do like the ideas of trapdoors, flagroom entry for either side, backdoors, delving 'tunnel-system'. I REALLY LOVE the ford changes around TA, stab/wtab changes, removal of npcs on TA lawn, and the idea of moving stuff around like ec/oc and ops.
But.. I do not like where ec/oc are being moved. Too close to tr/lugz imo.. I'd rather see ec moved near that slug pond between lugz and dwarf camp, closer to grams. And move oc between gv and lc, kinda where those random three trolls are near gv. Camps right at enemy fortresses, with the new tunnel system I'd say this is more ideal for rhythmic gameplay fun.. couple this with putting the rez circles closer to delving entrances.

Originally Posted by ButternutsMacGuyver

True stuffz

Heh, actually I was commenting all the whining about things before knowing every detail. Saw some of it on gmoors too :P
Too often is there immediate complaining without looking from another angle or listening to other's opinion. To some the whole change is reduced to the negative aspects...

Just cheer up more often ^^

Originally Posted by Nifroth

Just cheer up more often ^^

Lol this would go a long way for some people.

Originally Posted by YOUNGGUIDO

Other then that everything looks pretty legit

Hey Guido,,,it's THAN, not THEN

Miss ya bro


Zub

personally I'm completely baffled that people are trashing the warg sprint/hips updates when burgs can hips 2-3 times in the same fight, a champ sprint can last for almost a whole minute(not sure what you can get the cd too) and now people pop in combat brands like its candy. Or maybe i just missed something. But of course you'll all say (we use those skills to fight!) thats a laugh, sorry i didn't use my sprint to try and kill you with the two other freeps holding your hand, when you can crit me for at least 2k and i'm lucky to get a 600-1200 crit on you. I'm glad our hips is going to have such a short cd. maybe now you'll know how we feel trying to catch burgs, or watching champs/guards sprint away.

Originally Posted by Selethdawarg

or watching champs/guards sprint away.

well sorry for not trying to get hopeless kills ALL the time >.> :P

Originally Posted by Selethdawarg

when you can crit me for at least 2k and i'm lucky to get a 600-1200 crit on you.

Would like to say that wargs (rank 6-9) land dev crits on my burg for around 2k. Just super sayian!

...needless to say my burg is undergeard, but doesn't ignore the fact that wargs in shadow are crazy DPS monsters and some of the skills even ignore b/p/e. Or if the other select wargs feel like trololololoing they can just hop into flayer, where they have higher mits and armour value than my warden.

Originally Posted by Galahadur

So Wargs will have disappear every 3m but hunters DF in combat (20m cooldown) is still OP?...

*boggles*

yes DF is and always will be OP. disappear works the same as HIPS. can still be tracked, popped from stealth, and killed. not so with DF, which completely removes the player from combat to the nearest rez.


side note.

wargs will be OP when they get a ready and able style skill and an evade such as burgies until then we're stuck with *unevadable skills that can still be evaded* while burgs suffer from other skills that should evade, not evading......


and $()*% all those people that ruined stealth in the moors by hips/disappearing into rez circles and GV/grams.

/murderizeINC

*sigh*

Originally Posted by Nifroth

Heh, actually I was commenting all the whining about things before knowing every detail. Saw some of it on gmoors too :P
Too often is there immediate complaining without looking from another angle or listening to other's opinion. To some the whole change is reduced to the negative aspects...

Just cheer up more often ^^

^^ this. Remember when they did the minstrel revamp and most of everyone who played a minstrel was up in arms about a "nerf"? Prophets every one of them. The minstrel class really did become underpowered. They knew it all from reading a dev diary.......

I couldn't write that and keep a straight face.