Thread: Mounted combat - the more I hear, the less I think I'll enjoy

Originally Posted by Dorothir

I agree with what you're saying but I will just have to point out this part. There are two ways it affects them.

One is that if less and less people like mounted combat, Turbine would find less and less of a reason to add the Store to it and so would see less of a reason to keep mounted combat in later updates. This would mean those who do like mounted combat will suffer because those that don't want it are the majority (entirely hypothetical).

A second is that people who do want mounted combat may be very impressionable. When they read these forums and see people who don't like the concept, it may make them start to doubt their own opinion of it. Sometimes people can become agitated to find that the opinions of others have affected them and so it can add a little doubt to their enjoyment. When they do eventually play, they remember the person who didn't like it and what they said, which can result in their own displeasure at mounted combat (again, entirely hypothetical).

Or it might even be people think opinions of people will change the world and that it's their solemn duty to argue against it to prevent such a global event.

Are you saying that people should keep their opinions to themselves because it may influence someone else? I see nothing wrong with advocating your position to gain support for your view.

Originally Posted by Ace_Rimmer

Are you saying that people should keep their opinions to themselves because it may influence someone else? I see nothing wrong with advocating your position to gain support for your view.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm explaining why some people might believe that, hence why they would attack anyone who says they don't like the concept of mounted combat.

*deposits 2 cents into jar* Well, after watching most of the video someone posted earlier I am more enthusiastic about mounted combat. It will take a little getting used to, but I think I can handle it. It also looks as though normal foot combat is possible, just harder. The movement kind of put me in mind of the old Spyro games, which worries me a little cause I'm always running Spyro into walls and off cliffs. I do like that the war horses are so customizable. (Although Glaam is still mad about not being able to have a War Goat) I think that any further opinion will just have to wait til I've experienced it for myself.

Originally Posted by podgie_bear

Now excuse me if I have got the completely wrong idea here, but I was under the impression that a 'forum' was a place to air peoples views and to give them the ability to respond to the thread that had been posted.

And you did that. And i replied with my own view. We're allowed to disagree, no?

It just seemed that you were deciding that you would hate mounted combat based on some very sketchy and very preliminary information.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

When they said mounted combat, I was honestly expecting it to be like combat on foot, just on a mount.

And quite a lot of players for at least a couple years now have been saying that they do not want combat like that at all and that it would be a big failure if that's what mounted combat turned out to be (ie, merely "horse pants").

And while it's the big focus of Rohan I don't think you'll be required to use mounted combat very much at all. Remember how skirmishes are hyped so thoroughly with Mirkwood and yet they ended up being such a small part of the game. Any new tech gets the hype. I doubt new instances will require you to be mounted when those are released; though it would be interesting to have a mounted combat instance I'm not sure how it would really work.

Originally Posted by Lohi

And quite a lot of players for at least a couple years now have been saying that they do not want combat like that at all and that it would be a big failure if that's what mounted combat turned out to be (ie, merely "horse pants").

And while it's the big focus of Rohan I don't think you'll be required to use mounted combat very much at all. Remember how skirmishes are hyped so thoroughly with Mirkwood and yet they ended up being such a small part of the game. Any new tech gets the hype. I doubt new instances will require you to be mounted when those are released; though it would be interesting to have a mounted combat instance I'm not sure how it would really work.

Skirmishes a small part of Mirkwood? You cannot complete the Epic Quest line in Mirkwood without skirmishing, period. And since the skirmishes have a minimum level on them of 60, that means you have to put in the effort to level up a soldier as well. That to me is not a small part. It would not surprise me at all for mounted combat to be required for the epic this time, which forces you to level up a mount.

BTW I am not a hater of skirmishes, I have maxed soldiers and gobs of left over points. And I have completed the Mirkwood epics on six toons.

I am also not looking forward to mounted combat. It is not something that appeals to me. I suspect mounted combat is going to be extremely prominent throughout the whole expansion and I would guess it is going to be included in the epic story.

As to how much it will feature going forward, I dont think Turbine will want players to learn to play their class one way till level 75 then adopt a new play style for 10 levels before changing back to their previous play style in future updates with mounted combat disappearing.

So for those that dont like it I suspect you are going to have to deal with in being there and get used to the playing style or I guess LOTRO will not being something you play to often

Originally Posted by Lohi

And you did that. And i replied with my own view. We're allowed to disagree, no?

It just seemed that you were deciding that you would hate mounted combat based on some very sketchy and very preliminary information.

No, it is based on the information that speed and reactions seem to be the primary focus and as someone with arthritic hands who deliberately plays in a slow and strategic style since my reactions are pitiful, I said that it does not appeal to me. I don't hate mounted combat, and if it is playable at a walking pace and in a carefully planned style I will look forward to trying it but if it is speed and reaction based it will probably be beyond my physical abilities and I therefore do not look forward to it. At no time have I ever mentioned hating it, I only said it was not for me. It was other posters who accused me of hating it, pre-judging it and being determined not to like it before I had even tried it.

I came to visit the RoR forum due to what happened yesterday.

Yesterday there was a FB link from LOTRO about the mount combat. It was the first I read that mount combat would use new combat skill, and it'll be speed based. Yes, the first thing that came to me was: sounds like FPS style play. I'm sure many players will enjoy it, and others won't. Most of my friends who did not stay with LOTRO found its combat too slow. They had left ages ago, back when LOTRO first began. The one friend of mine who loved LOTRO for all these years is handicapped with missing fingers. He is a great player and a roleplayer. I wondered if he would be able to do FPS styled play, so I posted on FB asking a simple question:

Will we still be able to fight with our normal class skills at some parts of ROR? Or will the entire expansion be mount combat skill based?

Thinking it would be unreal if progression in ROR would disallow our normal class skills, I went off not really worried after posting my question. After all, will Turbine really expect the fast-paced players who left eons ago to return and endure a slow paced combat for 75 levels just to play RoR? (This may be possible only if Turbine later enable mount combat through the entire game.)

12 hours later, I returned to check for an answer. (I had expected an answer from Turbine because about 2 posts prior to my question, Turbine had answered someone else.) I was looking forward to a simple answer. Um, what I found was the whole thread had obviously been "cleaned up". It was reduced to 12 reader responses. My question has vanished. So had any Turbine replies, if there had been any. Even the prior answer I had seen from Turbine was gone! Why? It was baffling.

In shock and bewilderment, my mind became troubled. Um, I had pre-purchased RoR because recently I became very enthused about GW2. I still do love LOTRO. I was a founder who bought 2 life time accounts in the beginning, and later, despite that I did not like many things and even quit for a long time, I still returned when FTP began. Once I knew I would be playing 2 games, I began trying to level up in LOTRO, being I was only level 48, and playing 2 games would slow me down further. So I immediately purchased RoR, and began to play LOTRO as much as possible in the hope of reaching at least level 60 by September, and be 85 before the next expansion comes out. Why?

Recently I have been playing in the revised Moria, and found it really fun. I had been avoiding Moria hearing it was dark and frustrating. Well the revised Moria is excellent. The nights I wandered around alone in the Water Works felt like a sojourner alone in a vast ruin. Simply awesome.

Besides, while newer games may offer flex play a la FPS with constant position shifting, I would always come back to LOTRO for the leisurely style of play for a pace change. (I had actually smiled when I made this grand plan of playing 2 games for 2 distinct play styles.)

In addition, I bought RoR for the 6th inventory bag and the 25% exp bonus item. So, NO, I am not regretting buying ROR. Not at all, even if it was fully mount combat, I am sure I'll find some way to finish it. A part of my mind tells me: I've seen so many older, mature players post on the LOTRO forum over the years that I seriously doubt Turbine will make an expansion that abandons their needs for a more leisurely styled play. I hope my handicapped friend can make it. He loves this game, and if he can't, I will try to help him.

As someone pointed out: there is very sketchy information on this from Turbine. I know so because even my question on FB had been deleted.

The thing that bothers me now is the apparent deletion of my question. All the arguments in this thread from players can easily be soothed if only Turbine make a statement so that both sides will be happy. The FPS style lovers will be happy about speed. The leisurely players will be relieved they can still progress in this expansion.

Really hope someone from Turbine will just answer a simple question: Will mount combat be a requirement to progress in RoR?

To Turbine, please know when you delete player question and/or posts, it raises a flag in our minds. I for one am now wondering what is the future of this game? If you act like you are hiding something in the sand, I am starting to wonder what is the problem? Is it a drop in revenue? To me, a persistent drop in revenue might be why Turbine is trying to hide facts about the upcoming expansion. I apologize for being open about the question in my head. I do hope this game will live on for a long time. But IF it is indeed a matter of revenue, it's better for Turbine to find out exactly why the revenue is dropping than trying to be evasive about the future, and sell players expansions based on vagueness.

In the long run, your player community is a valuable commodity. Maintaining it with open communication and ample fact is the way to go. Not deletion of valid player community posts and threads.

I can say that for myself, the only thing making me wonder if I will ever buy another expansion is due to the recent deletion of valid posts. When a company does that, I have little faith in its future.

Originally Posted by spiritintelligencia

So when I play my burglar, I Share-the-Fun and my mount is stealthed... We sneak up on a mob and my horse crits a bite from behind, I hit Touch-n-Go and my horse dances back and forth, I hit Counter-Defense and my horse kicks the mob and I go up my crit chain? Sorry, I just don't get exactly how this works as mounted combat... You want to do the same combat, except with a giant horse under you?

Imagine medevil hillbilly nascar,where you circle to the left or right. From what i have read the burg,mini,and the cap have been sort of nerfed on horseback. I dont believe the burg will even have stealth while mounted.you will be a piece of meat...kind of like bait.Please understand i had nothing to do with these changes it is just an observation.

Originally Posted by Perenth

I came to visit the RoR forum due to what happened yesterday.

Yesterday there was a FB link from LOTRO about the mount combat. It was the first I read that mount combat would use new combat skill, and it'll be speed based. Yes, the first thing that came to me was: sounds like FPS style play. I'm sure many players will enjoy it, and others won't. Most of my friends who did not stay with LOTRO found its combat too slow. They had left ages ago, back when LOTRO first began. The one friend of mine who loved LOTRO for all these years is handicapped with missing fingers. He is a great player and a roleplayer. I wondered if he would be able to do FPS styled play, so I posted on FB asking a simple question:

Will we still be able to fight with our normal class skills at some parts of ROR? Or will the entire expansion be mount combat skill based?

Thinking it would be unreal if progression in ROR would disallow our normal class skills, I went off not really worried after posting my question. After all, will Turbine really expect the fast-paced players who left eons ago to return and endure a slow paced combat for 75 levels just to play RoR? (This may be possible only if Turbine later enable mount combat through the entire game.)

12 hours later, I returned to check for an answer. (I had expected an answer from Turbine because about 2 posts prior to my question, Turbine had answered someone else.) I was looking forward to a simple answer. Um, what I found was the whole thread had obviously been "cleaned up". It was reduced to 12 reader responses. My question has vanished. So had any Turbine replies, if there had been any. Even the prior answer I had seen from Turbine was gone! Why? It was baffling.

In shock and bewilderment, my mind became troubled. Um, I had pre-purchased RoR because recently I became very enthused about GW2. I still do love LOTRO. I was a founder who bought 2 life time accounts in the beginning, and later, despite that I did not like many things and even quit for a long time, I still returned when FTP began. Once I knew I would be playing 2 games, I began trying to level up in LOTRO, being I was only level 48, and playing 2 games would slow me down further. So I immediately purchased RoR, and began to play LOTRO as much as possible in the hope of reaching at least level 60 by September, and be 85 before the next expansion comes out. Why?

Recently I have been playing in the revised Moria, and found it really fun. I had been avoiding Moria hearing it was dark and frustrating. Well the revised Moria is excellent. The nights I wandered around alone in the Water Works felt like a sojourner alone in a vast ruin. Simply awesome.

Besides, while newer games may offer flex play a la FPS with constant position shifting, I would always come back to LOTRO for the leisurely style of play for a pace change. (I had actually smiled when I made this grand plan of playing 2 games for 2 distinct play styles.)

In addition, I bought RoR for the 6th inventory bag and the 25% exp bonus item. So, NO, I am not regretting buying ROR. Not at all, even if it was fully mount combat, I am sure I'll find some way to finish it. A part of my mind tells me: I've seen so many older, mature players post on the LOTRO forum over the years that I seriously doubt Turbine will make an expansion that abandons their needs for a more leisurely styled play. I hope my handicapped friend can make it. He loves this game, and if he can't, I will try to help him.

As someone pointed out: there is very sketchy information on this from Turbine. I know so because even my question on FB had been deleted.

The thing that bothers me now is the apparent deletion of my question. All the arguments in this thread from players can easily be soothed if only Turbine make a statement so that both sides will be happy. The FPS style lovers will be happy about speed. The leisurely players will be relieved they can still progress in this expansion.

Really hope someone from Turbine will just answer a simple question: Will mount combat be a requirement to progress in RoR?

To Turbine, please know when you delete player question and/or posts, it raises a flag in our minds. I for one am now wondering what is the future of this game? If you act like you are hiding something in the sand, I am starting to wonder what is the problem? Is it a drop in revenue? To me, a persistent drop in revenue might be why Turbine is trying to hide facts about the upcoming expansion. I apologize for being open about the question in my head. I do hope this game will live on for a long time. But IF it is indeed a matter of revenue, it's better for Turbine to find out exactly why the revenue is dropping than trying to be evasive about the future, and sell players expansions based on vagueness.

In the long run, your player community is a valuable commodity. Maintaining it with open communication and ample fact is the way to go. Not deletion of valid player community posts and threads.

I can say that for myself, the only thing making me wonder if I will ever buy another expansion is due to the recent deletion of valid posts. When a company does that, I have little faith in its future.

Fair points all.

Open and honest communication about potentially controversial or divisive issues is not Turbine's strong suit, especially when it comes to pre-purchasing expansions. Turbine seems to feel that it's best to leave players in the dark and trade on their good faith in hopes that people will pre-purchase rather than risk discouraging sales by disseminating information that may turn people off.

Will Mounted Combat be required to complete the new epic book?

Will Mounted Combat be required to reasonably attain level 85?

What about the Warbands? Will we be required to group up to complete quests for deeds or meta-deeds, or even to just earn enough experience to hit 85?

There are players for whom the answers to one or more of these questions might affect their decision to pre-purchase RoR, and so Turbine won't respond to such questions. Apparently they'll even delete such questions from their Facebook wall (to be fair, it probably wasn't your question per se that made somebody delete it, but more likely a discussion ensued that became relatively heated and so your question was deleted to prevent said discussion from continuing).

I'm lucky enough to not have any physical limitations that will hinder my ability to deal with a potentially faster-paced combat, nor am I adverse to grouping, and even though I have little desire to engage in Mounted Combat, I'll do so if I have to to finish the epic books and get to level 85. The answers to the above questions won't affect my purchasing decision (I've already decided to buy RoR with stored TP because I'd rather spend $40 on a round of shots for my friends than on this meager expansion), but the answers certainly might affect the decisions of others, and I can understand why.

It's a shame that things are the way they are, but c'est la vie avec Turbine.

Originally Posted by Lestache

Will Mounted Combat be required to complete the new epic book?

Will Mounted Combat be required to reasonably attain level 85?

Definitely no to the second, as far as I've heard you're not required to mount up and never dismount for 10 full levels. For the second part I suspect that they may required mounted combat for a chapter or two, but you won't necessarily have to be any good at it. Remember skirmishes were required in mirkwood but you could complete them with a bad soldier (honest, we all had to start at level 60 with no points spent in a soldier when it came out).

I don't think mounted enemies will be untouchable if you're not on a mount. You most likely will be able to fight them on foot. Maybe it will be a pain if you have no ranged skills but it won't be impossible. Unfortunately, nothing so far seems to indicate how much mounted combat is required or not, it would be nice to have it clarified.

As for twitchiness and FPS style. From some web sites you just select your skill then get your horse into range. A real twitchy style would require you to click the skill only after you're in range. So the "speed" part just means going fast as opposed to going fast and doing complicated acrobatics. And speed/Fury just gives a "passive damage bonus" as described in one web site so you can still fight w/o that bonus I presume, I haven't read anything that indicates a level of Fury is needed to execute skills in the same way as Fervour/Focus.

From a web site (http://www.tentonhammer.com/lotro/fe...or_playsession) I see description of "Spur On" that says your next skill will move directly to the target and execute it. So no need to aim or navigate the horse? Maybe it's just a /follow shortcut? But in any case it looks like it's intended for players who do think the movement control is too hard and who want an easier way to do combat. I also see "Arise" that fully fills Fury bar.

What about the Warbands? Will we be required to group up to complete quests for deeds or meta-deeds, or even to just earn enough experience to hit 85?

These sound like optional quests. Just like the current quests to get stuff done in instances, where you can't do it solo. They also sound a bit like rare elites, where some players can down them solo but most average casual players would require 2 or 3 to take it on.

Originally Posted by Perenth

...Yes, the first thing that came to me was: sounds like FPS style play. I'm sure many players will enjoy it, and others won't. [...]I wondered if he would be able to do FPS styled play, ...

Why you equate speed (as in the "physical" speed of your mounts) with "speedy" gameplay like FPS is a bit beyond me. Especially since you use this equation as the basis of your whole post. The videos so far certainly dont show exceptionally speedy gameplay, and absolutely nothing that could even remotely be compared to "reflex" gaming á la FPS.

...A part of my mind tells me: I've seen so many older, mature players post on the LOTRO forum over the years that I seriously doubt Turbine will make an expansion that abandons their needs for a more leisurely styled play. ...

While I´m not quite yet in the demographic you seem to be calling "older, mature" here, I´d feel a bit denigrated by your definition

To Turbine, please know when you delete player question and/or posts, it raises a flag in our minds. I for one am now wondering what is the future of this game? If you act like you are hiding something in the sand, I am starting to wonder what is the problem? Is it a drop in revenue? To me, a persistent drop in revenue might be why Turbine is trying to hide facts about the upcoming expansion. I apologize for being open about the question in my head. I do hope this game will live on for a long time. But IF it is indeed a matter of revenue, it's better for Turbine to find out exactly why the revenue is dropping than trying to be evasive about the future, and sell players expansions based on vagueness.

Seriously: You´re interpreting way too much into a simple vanished FB post. Whatever happened, here´s one thing to note: companies dont want to use social media like we do. They dont want to talk 1v1. It is inefficient and costs time. They want to use the platforms to promotoe peer group advertising, not to socialize. Which may be why the responses that are picking up specific questions were deleted: FB is not the place to discuss it.

Originally Posted by Perenth

...

Will we still be able to fight with our normal class skills at some parts of ROR? Or will the entire expansion be mount combat skill based?
[...]
As someone pointed out: there is very sketchy information on this from Turbine. I know so because even my question on FB had been deleted.

The thing that bothers me now is the apparent deletion of my question. All the arguments in this thread from players can easily be soothed if only Turbine make a statement so that both sides will be happy.

Originally Posted by Lestache

Fair points all.

Open and honest communication about potentially controversial or divisive issues is not Turbine's strong suit, especially when it comes to pre-purchasing expansions. Turbine seems to feel that it's best to leave players in the dark and trade on their good faith in hopes that people will pre-purchase rather than risk discouraging sales by disseminating information that may turn people off.
[...]
It's a shame that things are the way they are, but c'est la vie avec Turbine.

OR, you two could wind your neck in?
Your questions have been answered in the Riders of Rohan FAQ which was available from the first day of presale. Plus several media reports that touched on the subject. So much for the cloak-and-dagger theory.

I´m always open for a good nerd rage/gamer bash but please do your homework first.

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

Why you equate speed (as in the "physical" speed of your mounts) with "speedy" gameplay like FPS is a bit beyond me. Especially since you use this equation as the basis of your whole post. The videos so far certainly dont show exceptionally speedy gameplay, and absolutely nothing that could even remotely be compared to "reflex" gaming á la FPS.


While I´m not quite yet in the demographic you seem to be calling "older, mature" here, I´d feel a bit denigrated by your definition


Seriously: You´re interpreting way too much into a simple vanished FB post. Whatever happened, here´s one thing to note: companies dont want to use social media like we do. They dont want to talk 1v1. It is inefficient and costs time. They want to use the platforms to promotoe peer group advertising, not to socialize. Which may be why the responses that are picking up specific questions were deleted: FB is not the place to discuss it.



OR, you two could wind your neck in?
Your questions have been answered in the Riders of Rohan FAQ which was available from the first day of presale. Plus several media reports that touched on the subject. So much for the cloak-and-dagger theory.

I´m always open for a good nerd rage/gamer bash but please do your homework first.

It was not just my post that was deleted. If you read my post, even the original Turbine rep answer to someone else was gone. After 12 hours, the thread became shorter, much shorter. As for "homework", have you noticed how much publicity there is for RoR? Posts about it are everywhere. But this point is not clear. Even as this thread began on July 18, there has been no official answer. You would like to assume we didn't read the presale the "first day". You want us to all do the "homework" you have done for this game. That's fine. Until I see an official Turbine rep answer in concrete language, excuse me for not trusting your word since you didn't even read my post right. Take care and have a good day.

Who's shouting?

Originally Posted by Lohi

Who's shouting?

I think he's referring to Vandervahn's unnecessarily hostile jab of 'OR, you two could wind your neck in?' and the general air of 'don't discuss it unless you're going to praise it' in his post.

Originally Posted by Perenth

Recently I have been playing in the revised Moria, and found it really fun. I had been avoiding Moria hearing it was dark and frustrating. Well the revised Moria is excellent. The nights I wandered around alone in the Water Works felt like a sojourner alone in a vast ruin. Simply awesome.

Thanks for the quote Perenth, I hope you dont mind me using it but it is a nice basis for a story I have.

I had a friend who started to play LOTRO, he really enjoyed Eriador and had great fun levelling through the old SoA content. He was absolutely convinced that after he finished Eregion and have to venture in to Moria he would hate it and would likely give up the game in frustration. Of course, he had never been to Moria but had heard people talk about it and use words/phrases like 'maze', 'dark', 'enclossed', 'endless mobs', 'frustrating to navigate', 'easy to get lost', 'dungeon' etc etc etc... Anyway, I managed to convince him to take his first steps in to Moria... I said I wasnt going to help him but if he was still struggling after one week then I would come and lend a hand. Long story short after a little bit of initial frustration and sceptisism he started finding his feet and really enjoying Moria... It is now his favourite area in the game and he is levelling multiple alts just so he can experience it over and over again.

I think the OP could perhaps learn a lot about from the above story (which is suprisingly a common one), with regards to mounted combat.

I just don't understand why so many people feel the need to try and convince those of us who are highly skeptical of mounted combat that we are wrong. No one here is claiming to know what mounted combat is going to be like when the expansion releases. They are only saying that what they have seen so far makes them wary. It does not seem like a mechanic they will like. Which is a perfectly reasonable approach to take. I don't see why so many people have to argue against it.

People keep pointing out that the skeptical players don't have enough data to know what mounted combat will really be like. That's true. But the positive players don't know any more. Everyone is seeing a handful of videos and interviews and forming opinions based on them. And you know what? That's ok. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion before the expansion launches. And a skeptical opinion is just as valid as a positive one.

Personally, I am highly skeptical. As someone who is not a 'gamer', but who loves many aspects of the MMO atmosphere, especially here in Middle-earth, this looks to me like a much more complex and hardcore mechanic than I'm really willing to get involved with. I am not very good with fine movement controls and I have no depth perception so this all looks like something I won't be able to handle.

I can only hope that mounted combat is just a sideshow and is not required for leveling or completing the epic, but I'm not holding out any hope of that. This thing is being hyped like a life saving drug. I cannot recall ANYTHING being hyped this much before. (No, skirmishes did not have countless videos and interviews and information pages dedicated to them.) Turbine is going all out to push mounted combat so it's hard for me to believe that it isn't going to be a necessary part of Rohan.

Originally Posted by Fionnuala

People keep pointing out that the skeptical players don't have enough data to know what mounted combat will really be like. That's true. But the positive players don't know any more.

So the difference then is that some people are assuming, a-priori, that it will be awful. I just think that's the bad approach to take. If you assume it will be awful then you are guaranteeing that you will have an awful experience.

There's a difference between a skeptical stance and one that proclaims that it will be unenjoyable. "I'm unsure if I'll like it but will keep an open mind" is a better attitude to take towards it than an attitude of "it will be hardcore playstyle and therefore I will be unable to play it". Especially when there is no evidence that it's hardcore twitchy playstyle.

I do believe it was mentioned elsewhere that mounted combat is completely optional. You don't have to do it, it will just be "slightly" harder to kill mounted mobs if you don't. Or at least that's what was said.

Originally Posted by Lohi

So the difference then is that some people are assuming, a-priori, that it will be awful.

No, people in this thread were not assuming (other than you, anyway). People in this thread were saying "I'm afraid, based on what I am seeing, that mounted combat is not going to be something that I will like to do and I'm afraid I won't have any choice about it."

And there's plenty of evidence for what kind of playstyle mounted combat will involve. All the videos and all the descriptions point pretty strongly toward a type of playstyle were fine motor control and movement based play will be key. All signs point to it being a far more complex and twitchy play style than anything that casual players have experienced in this game so far. A lot of people won't like that.

So, you know, just stop. Stop accussing people of making blind assumptions, because they're not. They are forming opinions based on data. They may not be opinions you like or agree with, but declaring them
"bad" is arrogant and pretentious. It's not your call.

Originally Posted by Zentoki

I do believe it was mentioned elsewhere that mounted combat is completely optional. You don't have to do it, it will just be "slightly" harder to kill mounted mobs if you don't. Or at least that's what was said.

Do you have a reference for that? I'd love evidence that it really is optional. Though the question is, of course, whether what Turbine calls "optional" is actually reasonably optional. Sometimes they seem to have very odd understandings of what words mean.

Originally Posted by Fionnuala

No, people in this thread were not assuming (other than you, anyway). People in this thread were saying "I'm afraid, based on what I am seeing, that mounted combat is not going to be something that I will like to do and I'm afraid I won't have any choice about it."

And there's plenty of evidence for what kind of playstyle mounted combat will involve. All the videos and all the descriptions point pretty strongly toward a type of playstyle were fine motor control and movement based play will be key. All signs point to it being a far more complex and twitchy play style than anything that casual players have experienced in this game so far. A lot of people won't like that.

So, you know, just stop. Stop accussing people of making blind assumptions, because they're not. They are forming opinions based on data. They may not be opinions you like or agree with, but declaring them
"bad" is arrogant and pretentious. It's not your call.

Well said. Even in old Moria's case, when I read forum threads about it there were definitely more players griping about the darkness than players who said they enjoyed the Moria expansion. Hence the deves revised it! I was here to say I love the new Moria. When things are bad, we need opinions from people who don't enjoy it to correct the situation so that more people can enjoy it. In the case of Moria, now the zones are well-lit, the quest givers are no longer making you run back and forth as much. I do applaud the effort put forth by the devs in correcting the zone design upon people's negative feedback. In the long run this is good for the game because players like me who resisted leveling past 48 are now happily enjoying Moria, looking forward to more levels, and buying the RoR expansion.

And the more revenue, the more hope for funner, broader contents.

It just dawned on me the concept of an MMORPG is player cooperation. It not only applies in grouping, raiding, it applies in game design. All through we need to be considerate of other players with different play styles, and work together. If people really care about this game, imho we should always try to think for all of the players and not just our own opinion in a win-lose manner. Try to think win-win. I totally support people who are worried about not being able to enjoy mount-combat and it would be very nice if some confirmation on their ability to enjoy the expansion via normal foot-combat in all zones can be made.

It can be fun if people on foot are allowed their normal skills, with a few new on-foot skills such as slashing enemy mount's knees, setting traps to trip the enemy mount, baiting the enemy mount with carrots to trick them into running to them for comical effect. When I watch a LOTR movie, I see foot soldiers fight side-by-side with mounted fellowship friends. I was looking forward to seeing that in RoR. Would have been hecka fun to see group cooperation in this way.

Originally Posted by Fionnuala

So, you know, just stop. Stop accussing people of making blind assumptions, because they're not.

I already gave some evidence that they will accommodate people. There is the auto-move-then-attack skill for example.

Originally Posted by Lohi

I already gave some evidence that they will accommodate people. There is the auto-move-then-attack skill for example.

So they will accommodate me in not having to fight on horseback and I will still be able to fight with my pets then you think? Because the "auto-move-then-attack skill" is great for a single attack on a single enemy, but how is that going to help during a battle against a warband? Unless they make the game pause-able between attacks to allow us to keep assessing what is happening and starting the next "auto-move-then-attack skill", then the option is not going to be much help for those players with dexterity worries is it? And since they are unlikely to make the game into turn-based combat, we are back to square one and wondering if we might have problems with mounted combat and therefore not looking forward to it.

All this would not be such an issue if we had some idea of what to expect. A statement from Turbine that we don't HAVE to do mounted combat would solve everything and keep everyone happy. However without such a statement we are stuck in this situation of the enthusiastic berating the skeptical. And I am still skeptical about if I am going to be physically able to play my favourite game in RoR and whether the lag (which is getting a lot worse after every update) is going to be too much for my system when mounted battles are included.

Originally Posted by Fionnuala

All the videos and all the descriptions point pretty strongly toward a type of playstyle were fine motor control and movement based play will be key. All signs point to it being a far more complex and twitchy play style than anything that casual players have experienced in this game so far.

I think you need to add a 'in my opinion' to that. I've seen all the videos too and it does not look very difficult. Coupled with the new 'X' camera functionality and the existing 'auto-move to attack target' functionality being built into at least some fo the mounted skills, I don't see it as being much more 'twitchy' than the festival horse races.

Originally Posted by Fionnuala

Do you have a reference for that? I'd love evidence that it really is optional. Though the question is, of course, whether what Turbine calls "optional" is actually reasonably optional. Sometimes they seem to have very odd understandings of what words mean.

Originally Posted by podgie_bear

All this would not be such an issue if we had some idea of what to expect. A statement from Turbine that we don't HAVE to do mounted combat would solve everything and keep everyone happy. However without such a statement we are stuck in this situation of the enthusiastic berating the skeptical.

From what I've read and watched about mounted combat, they have indicated that mounted combat is optional. I'm too lazy to dig up a specific link, but feel free to go back and re-visit the available Dev diaries and comments and you'll find your answer.

Originally Posted by auximenes

[...] From what I've read and watched about mounted combat, they have indicated that mounted combat is optional. I'm too lazy to dig up a specific link, but feel free to go back and re-visit the available Dev diaries and comments and you'll find your answer.

From the Riders of Rohan pre-order FAQ

11. Do I have to fight from horseback?
To a limited extent, yes. Many of the opponents you encounter in the plains of Rohan will be mounted and an unmounted combatant will find combat more difficult against mounted opponents. Mounted combat is likely to be incorporated into parts of the epic quest line so in the course of completing that content, you will spend a moderate amount of time fighting from horseback. There may also be some optional quests that can only be completed with the extra speed and agility you will have when riding your War-steed.

That's all I was able to find regarding the necessity of mounted combat. I couldn't find any developer diaries devoted specifically to mounted combat. They may be out there but they don't show up in the Recent Developer Diary panel of the Developer Diary page: Riders of Rohan Developer Diary: Captain

I also scoured the last months worth of posts in the Dev Tracker but found no developer post that addresses the topic. Again, those posts may be out there - for some reason Developer / Community Manager posts don't always show up in the Dev Tracker.

In my opinion, mounted combat is going to be optional in the same way that Legendary Weapons are optional. There's no rule that says you have to use Legendary Weapons - you'll likely die a lot and may not be able to progress through the game if you don't, but you certainly don't have to use them!

For what it's worth, I'm not looking forward to mounted combat. It represents a paradigm shift in combat that I neither want nor asked for. I'm hoping the next big expansion (after Rohan) will return us to the current status quo and Rohan will become a region I can skip - like Moria.

Originally Posted by auximenes

I don't see it as being much more 'twitchy' than the festival horse races.

And to be fair here, festival horse raises are indeed extremely difficult for many players. There are players who just can not do them.

However if you miss a jump in the festival horse you lose and have to wait a day to try again. If you miss an enemy in mounted combat then you can just turn around and try again. In that sense festival horse races are presumably harder than mounted combat.

I really don't think Turbine is going to break their own game on purpose by making mounted combat be twitch based or require a lot of dexterity or quick actions. They have a history of making things easier over time, adding solo options, removing landscape based group quests, etc. If it turns out that mounted combat is too hard they almost certainly will address it very quickly. Presumably with the lotto-based beta selection they would have some players in beta who will fall on the side of finding mounted combat difficult and who will provide feedback to Turbine.

Originally Posted by TheREALify

For what it's worth, I'm not looking forward to mounted combat. It represents a paradigm shift in combat that I neither want nor asked for.

You may have not asked for it. I myself was very dubious from early on. However there have been players for several years now clamoring for this; players who have proclaimed loudly that if there was not mounted combat that the game would fail (and be overtaken by Age of Conan :-). Some even complained that waiting until Rohan would take too long.

So I think Turbine essentially must have this feature or they'd be laughed at. So it comes down to how to implement it. Players were worried about having a "horse pants" style where you just fight normally while appearing cosmetically to be on a horse. Others, myself included, were worried about an unrealistic style that would be fun for gamers but very illogical. I think this is somewhat in the middle. It's not very accurate at all; no hobbit who learned to hunt on foot is going to become an expert shot while riding full speed on a horse, the mongol archers were highly trained from an early age. But then you can't really restrict mounted combat to only those players with the foresight to select "Rohan" on the character creation screen. The melee mounted combat seems more realistic, and the horses have momentum so that they don't turn instantly like the travel horses. It's not the perfect way I'd like to see it done but it's very long way from travesty I was dreading.

Originally Posted by TheREALify

In my opinion, mounted combat is going to be optional in the same way that Legendary Weapons are optional. There's no rule that says you have to use Legendary Weapons - you'll likely die a lot and may not be able to progress through the game if you don't, but you certainly don't have to use them!

Yeah, by 'not required' I expect that in many cases mounted combat will be the preferred method of advancing, but it will not be a 'hard' requirement. Shades of grey, in my opinion (not that stupid book!).

Originally Posted by auximenes

Yeah, by 'not required' I expect that in many cases mounted combat will be the preferred method of advancing, but it will not be a 'hard' requirement. Shades of grey, in my opinion (not that stupid book!).

Well, given the quote from the dev diary above:

Mounted combat is likely to be incorporated into parts of the epic quest line so in the course of completing that content, you will spend a moderate amount of time fighting from horseback.

I'd say that it'll be a 'hard' requirement in at least those chapters alluded to in the quote, at least for those interested in finishing the epic quest line (which, I hope, is most people).

It's certainly possible that "you will spend" [emphasis mine] is a misstatement, and the developer means that your chances of success will be higher if you are on horseback rather than on foot (like s/he says in the first part of the quote), but all it takes is for a quest to have a "Mount your War Steed" condition before it advances for Mounted Combat to become "required".

As I said before - I hardly care, as I'll do mounted combat if I have to and don't anticipate having any issues being able to do it, but I can understand the concerns of those who worry that their physical (or other) limitations may prevent them from completing the core content of this game (the epic quest line).

Just a simple "yes, you absolutely will have to participate in Mounted Combat to complete X" or "no, you won't*" statement would be nice for those people to hear.

*(A reasonable "no, you won't" - not some half-truth "no, you won't" with an unspoken "as long as you're geared to the teeth and one of the top players in the game".)

Originally Posted by Lestache

It's certainly possible that "you will spend" [emphasis mine] is a misstatement, and the developer means that your chances of success will be higher if you are on horseback rather than on foot (like s/he says in the first part of the quote), but all it takes is for a quest to have a "Mount your War Steed" condition before it advances for Mounted Combat to become "required".

I would assume that there will be at least some sort of training exercise that requires you to try mounted combat in order to proceed. Something similar to the skirmish introduction quests for example. They want people to enjoy it, and so they are obliged to at least introduce everyone to it. After that if people decide they don't like it and don't want to do anymore of it, then fair enough. But I don't believe they can be faulted if they require you to try something new. After all if you never try it then you will for sure never like it, but if you do try it then there will be some number of people who were skeptical and will actually end up enjoying it.

Originally Posted by Lestache

Just a simple "yes, you absolutely will have to participate in Mounted Combat to complete X" or "no, you won't*" statement would be nice for those people to hear.

Yes, definitely.

Originally Posted by podgie_bear

The question I asked myself is, "If I could import my character into 'Mount & Blade' to play it there, would I do it?" The answer I realized was NO, because it wouldn't be my character using the skills I like and playing how I want to play. It would be some sort of hybrid playing a different type of game in a completely different style of play. That was when I realized that I would be giving RoR a miss, thank you Turbine, but no thanks, not for me.

So when you develop your next expansion after RoR, could you please include a way to fast travel past RoR completely please, thank you.

I've played Mount & Blade for years now, and it has excellent mounted mechanics, but not being able to solo level my burglar or lore master is going to be a show stopper for me.

Originally Posted by Eriandor

After reading the new page on mounted comat mechanics, especially the "Fury" part, I'm starting to worry this won't be anything for me. ( http://www.lotro.com/gameinfo/2222-r...mounted-combat )

Damage that is based on the speed at which you are moving seems to be going so far in the opposite direction of why I'm playing a fantasy MMO instead of a fast paced FPS.

Don't know about others, but I'd been picturing players / mobs coming together at speed, with that speed being taken into account for initial damage (possibly tied to a high damage, long cooldown skill), and then combat going into a moving, swirling brawl of combat. Given that it's also stated that healing range will involve players having to stay in groups, I can't quite get my head around how this will work if we are all charging around at breakneck speed, unless we all end up on /follow to a tank so we stay together whilst doing our stuff - and this sure wouldn't be at all my idea of being in control of a horse.

If the "fury" is in the form of a "power" bar that we fill by moving across landscape at speed so that we can then execute mounted combat skills, or execute them at a higher potential, I guess that might work, so long as it doesn't drain away too rapidly once your engaged with a mob.

If the whole thing turns out to be a high-speed twitch skill on impact scenario, hope there's plenty else in the expac for me to do, as I won't be there for that. (which is what the bottom of the page implies to me)

Lifer, with RoR expansion already purchased (as I so want this game to keep going), but worry about the direction it may take in the future. Hoping that this doesn't look like a whine on something I haven't even seen yet, but more putting it out there as a feeler for what other's are expecting / hoping mounted combat is going to be like.

What say you?

After watching loads of videos and reading articles from people doing alpha tests, I feel that in many aspects, your nightmares are, luckily, untrue. The fury, is where you can build up speed, and the higher your speed, the higher your damage, you can slow down rapidly for a quick turn etc.
Your fear of it being a rapid FPS is also untrue, as what happens is you ride at them, unleash a few hits then ride on, they are also increasing healing range so we don't need to stick together. Another technique is to ride fast at them unleashing a powerful blow, then ride next to them trading the blows, and if you are ranged I believe you could ride on the outskirts firing at them.

Originally Posted by podgie_bear

So they will accommodate me in not having to fight on horseback and I will still be able to fight with my pets then you think? Because the "auto-move-then-attack skill" is great for a single attack on a single enemy, but how is that going to help during a battle against a warband? Unless they make the game pause-able between attacks to allow us to keep assessing what is happening and starting the next "auto-move-then-attack skill", then the option is not going to be much help for those players with dexterity worries is it? And since they are unlikely to make the game into turn-based combat, we are back to square one and wondering if we might have problems with mounted combat and therefore not looking forward to it.

When you say fighting a whole warband, you should very likely be in a fellowship, having discussed a plan, "Guardian draws the flankers and pursuers while the hunter kills them off. The champion meanwhile is chasing the Archer and the captain takes on the jouster" etc. Then, if say, the champion kills the Archer quickly, he can go and help the other players. And the fighting style form the videos suggests that you attack, then ride away so you can plan while turning to face them again.

I understand you don't think you will be able to do it, but everyone will find it hard to start with, its a whole new concept of combat.

Originally Posted by Taraborn

When you say fighting a whole warband, you should very likely be in a fellowship, having discussed a plan, "Guardian draws the flankers and pursuers while the hunter kills them off. The champion meanwhile is chasing the Archer and the captain takes on the jouster" etc. Then, if say, the champion kills the Archer quickly, he can go and help the other players. And the fighting style form the videos suggests that you attack, then ride away so you can plan while turning to face them again.

I understand you don't think you will be able to do it, but everyone will find it hard to start with, its a whole new concept of combat.

Between Mounted Combat and the "rebuild the town" quests, I look forward to the upcoming dueling threads in RoR:

"LOTRO is becoming a game only for the hardcore raiders with no life" (re: learning Mounted Combat)

&

"LOTRO continues to cater to the carebear casuals" (re: doing repeatable quests to rebuild a town).

Originally Posted by Eriandor

Lifer, with RoR expansion already purchased (as I so want this game to keep going), but worry about the direction it may take in the future. Hoping that this doesn't look like a whine on something I haven't even seen yet, but more putting it out there as a feeler for what other's are expecting / hoping mounted combat is going to be like.

What say you?

I say you worry to much ;-). And even if not intended it did sound exactly as you described it.
Wait for it to come online. Or go to beta when it goes open and offer your oppinion constructevly at bug squishing.
And i did not even read the next posts yet but i bet they are full of asumptions, and then raging over those asumptions.
Here i go to see if im right :P

Originally Posted by podgie_bear

So if mounted combat is speed based, what happens when my hunter starts using his traps? My Lore Master her Blinding Flash or Earthquake? And what happens to my Warden's HoTs gambits? Or even a Guardian's Block, Parry and Retaliate skills? Burglar's Stealth and Tricks? Or even Champion's AoE skills? Are Turbine basically abandoning skills for all characters that have been primary skills since forever and which those characters' play styles have been built around?

As far as i can understand what ive been given as info Mounted combat will be imperative to use only against Warbands.

And if you can explain why you wouldnt enjoy a new aspect of your characters wihtout actually loosing the old skills ? I am really curious why you would rather play your chars in the same old dusted way and so very hate a new and original thing?(i assure you you WILL use your chars the normal way most of the time, a Mounted combat raid might be uber original and cool to make but im sure if they do one it wont be the only raid they do, normal instances will come also)

And really now ive seen raging around not having your pet with you the 10 minutes youll be engaging a Warband. Really? We rage for that now? Are you people ever satified? When no mechanic is intoduced --- oooh nothing has changed since SoA. When new mechanics are introduced --- oooh what happened to my old style you ruined me. To bad that it seems these kind of players have the loudest voices. We who apreaciate the work of others whether it is awesome or not just silently offer our thanks.

I for one will probably enjoy Mounted combat if it proves to be something new and original. Even if i wont be able to use my 101 Hunter skills from horseback.

Originally Posted by Taraborn

When you say fighting a whole warband, you should very likely be in a fellowship, having discussed a plan, "Guardian draws the flankers and pursuers while the hunter kills them off. The champion meanwhile is chasing the Archer and the captain takes on the jouster" etc. Then, if say, the champion kills the Archer quickly, he can go and help the other players. And the fighting style form the videos suggests that you attack, then ride away so you can plan while turning to face them again.

I understand you don't think you will be able to do it, but everyone will find it hard to start with, its a whole new concept of combat.

Really? Chasing stuff around? I really hate that. I don't do NCF for that reason. If true (and it sounds awful) I'm giving the whole MC thing a wide pass. The only thing that would make me even look it would be if they gated end game raids (Something that I would not put past them.) with MC somehow. They probability won't this time. But I would be risking being totally gimped for the next expansion because I have no warhorse.