I am sorry if this has been posted already but i was not able to find any info.
Anyways I am playin my LM nowdays in the moorz 6/7 Aud. I fought a deffiler the other day and barely made it out alive (was in HH).
So my question is this can anyone give me some advise as to fighting Deffilers - i tried Power Draining but got interrupted (twice). Then in turn he drain my power and i had not option but to kite into the NPCs.
So should i try to kill the flies first? or smt else i am missing?
I tried to interrupt as much as i could + frost lore when it was available + stacking BE but is seems that he just out healed my DPS easily.
So can a LM beat a Deff (of course this one had audacity) rank 8 I think (it was not a random noobie) or I should just try to run when i see a good Deff?
Flies are terrible, if the defiler has the normal version it's a 15 sec duration with 30 secs cooldown and an induction, u will recognize them because they have 6-7k health, traited flies are 30 seconds duration on 30 secs cooldown with no induction and have like 12k health, in both cases the best thing to do in my opinion is to crowd control them while nuking the defiler, if u can't beat him it's because u don't have enough dps, try to get more (i have same problem with my hunter who is low on agility, not enough dps)
loremasters with enough dps should really be able to win, u have high spike damage skill and stuns and debuffs and whatsoever so try working on it
I don't bother with power drains, I just tend to DPS as hard as possible, flank heal whenever possible (watch your pet as well, it'll run away when feared and you sometimes have to set it to re-attack or it just does nothing - pets are so intelligent right...). Obviously you'd want to have the raven out, for too many reasons to list. Stack dots, interrupt their inductions whenever you can with blinding flash, get some explosive crits and you should be fine. If their morale bar is dropping quicker than they can heal it back up, you know you're doing alright. You /need/ to have the DPS for it though, to keep them on the back foot, worrying about that next explosive ISG. It does depend on your build, and luck though. If you get no flank heals at all during the fight and a lot of resists, you may be in trouble. But generally speaking, this is a fight you should be able to win, especially if you pop wisdom (but this is generally not required if your DPS is high enough and you get some nice crits).
"LM dps ain't that great"
I disagree. A few burst crits/devs, with the right sort of build, and many fights can be over in seconds. Even against defilers with max audacity (speaking from experience).
Never run when solo, especially if you know you're in for a tough fight. Those are the fights in which you can learn the most, figure out what you could've done better/differently, and improve.
EDIT: Another thing I thought I'd mention is the importance of movement and using your staff skills. Get in close, don't stand there and try to range them the whole time. You'll be much more effective if you get in close when possible, run around them, use your staff skills, get behind, mez them up close and shoot them in the &&&. They cannot slow you enough so that you cannot get within melee range. So make the most of that, get in close to make it difficult for them to get their few dps skills off. If you're crazy and erratic, right in their face blowing them up while they're sitting there trying to heal, there's a chance you'll put them into that same "panic mode" a lot of people get into when a warg is right in their face, encircling them at close range. When they begin to move out, fire off some ranged skills, when your staff skills are back up run in for the kill again. I'm serious - this actually works much better than standing in one spot fighting a ranged battle. Might work fine against BAs considering they can slow you, outrun you and fire on the move, but against defilers... You have no excuse to not get your hands dirty and your staff chipped
I disagree. A few burst crits/devs, with the right sort of build, and many fights can be over in seconds. Even against defilers with max audacity (speaking from experience).
Beg do differ . Maybe vs a greenie unranked non audacity defiler .
CC means nothing after the 3rd skill , and if the defiler gets in trouble can just save his fear to easily get his morale back .
I've had well geared RKs , Minstrels and Burglars giving up on my defiler plenty of times to know this .
Originally Posted by Vaapad
Never run when solo, especially if you know you're in for a tough fight. Those are the fights in which you can learn the most, figure out what you could've done better/differently, and improve.
It's a tough fight. People consistently list defilers as the toughest class to 1v1. You might have better luck posting in the loremaster forums or the freep forums. Anyway, a couple things you might try....
Are flies CC immune or affected by DR? If not, then you should be able to easily blinding flash them or root them and move away. The power drain has a short radius, maybe 5 m.
You could also try traiting the eagle for the auto-interrupt because (despite what another poster said on this thread) flies have a 1 second induction even when traited, and so do most of the big defiler heals.
Even if you do manage to deal with the flies, I'm not sure an LM has enough DPS to burn through defiler hots. On the other hand a defiler has no DPS so if you trait your own power drain, you may be able to turn the tables on them after a while.
Freeps: r8 Mini
Creeps: r10 Reaver, r8 WL, r8 Defiler, r8 Warg, r7 Spider, r6 BA
IAre flies CC immune or affected by DR? If not, then you should be able to easily blinding flash them or root them and move away. The power drain has a short radius, maybe 5 m.
Even if you do manage to deal with the flies, I'm not sure an LM has enough DPS to burn through defiler hots. On the other hand a defiler has no DPS so if you trait your own power drain, you may be able to turn the tables on them after a while.
Flies are immune except to Fears .
I have sparred defilers , and tried draining them out of power .
The problem is once we're both out of power , they can just drain the power I'm trying to regen .
they shouldn't have any cc diminishing return, should be full effect as on my spider pet, u can cc it as long as u have a skill up and for the entire duration
i know they can be feared, not sure about mezz or root but it's worth trying imao, at least if power is a problem
i've seen a fight between one of the best lm and one of the best defilers on my server and the lm won, he did some power drain too and the fight was really long but with flank heals and wisdom u should be able to last ^^
Yeah , and even more because freeps run solo so frequently . Am I right ?
Kudos for a brilliant contribution .
... How is that even related to what he said about fear pots?
Honestly, if you're running out of power even against a fly traited defiler BEFORE you manage to kill them, you're just doing something (if not many things) wrong. It is more than likely a build problem, but may also involve your rotation, your movement, and your ability to actually counter what your opponent is doing at any given time. Once again, this is coming from an LM from one of the more active servers of today as far as PvP goes. I've fought plenty of high ranked defilers with flies traited, and even on an instance where one attempted to kite me endlessly around a rock (she/he will remain unnamed) I was still simply able to DPS through it and come out victorious. You don't even need to trait or cast a power drain if your DPS, burst crit especially (this is where your build is important, obviously) is high enough that you can feel confident in your ability to 'know' when you're going to hit for 3-4k if not more with ISG/Ents. You can slot in some ICPR gear, you can take a power pot, you can use a flank to regen some power (through staff strike) if your power is below your morale. Not to mention the fact that if you see a defiler coming, and you're really worried about power, you can quickly eat some regen food first. And yeah, if you're running around in the moors without disease pots (not to mention you can actually cure them without) and fear pots and you run into a defiler... Well, good luck to you.
EDIT: If an LM is stupid enough to wander around solo wasting a trait on power drain... Quite frankly you deserve to lose
... How is that even related to what he said about fear pots?
Words and bla bla bla .
Totally out of context , just like he did with the quote .
And don't assume that just because you fought bad defilers , every other defiler out there is the same .
It doesn't matter if you have a 100000000000000k power pool . Most of my creeps run with tactical mitigation .
A LM just doesn't have the DPS to burn me down . Wich means that regardless of the size of your power pool , you'll run out eventually .
I've tried Minstrel vs WL . We fought for nearly 1 hour ( seriously ) , until freeps and creeps around us got bored and got in the middle of our fight .
Totally out of context , just like he did with the quote .
And don't assume that just because you fought bad defilers , every other defiler out there is the same .
It doesn't matter if you have a 100000000000000k power pool . Most of my creeps run with tactical mitigation .
A LM just doesn't have the DPS to burn me down . Wich means that regardless of the size of your power pool , you'll run out eventually .
I've tried Minstrel vs WL . We fought for nearly 1 hour ( seriously ) , until freeps and creeps around us got bored and got in the middle of our fight .
I'm going to break this down for you slowly, point by point, as I think there is a comprehension issue here.
1) What he said was not out of context. You said something about fears, he mentioned fear pots as the counter to it. You then went and said something about freeps running solo... Yeah, right. What he said was in response to you mentioning the defiler's ability to cast a fear. What you said was touching on an entirely different point - the apparent lack of freeps running solo on your server.
2) Now you're just making assumptions about the defilers I have fought. Not a wise move on your part. Granted, some go down quicker than others - but I maintain my standpoint that simply from a DPS perspective (and once again, this is my DPS. It may be considerably higher than yours. It may be considerably higher than most of the LMs you run into in the Moors. Just a possibility, buddy) an LM should be able to DPS through a defiler's heals sufficiently, regardless of flies/max audacity. I would advise caution before you make such overarching comments about the defilers of Elendilmir - your defiler is rank 6. The E creepside community is very active, and has many skilled soloers, including defilers. I have fought and beaten max audacity defilers, who are of a higher rank than you. With flies and without. That said, I do not know what Evernight is like, so perhaps it is a case of you fighting below average LMs who run around in yellow line doing less DPS with a BE than I do with an autoattack.
3) I could... I could actually facepalm. I'm sorry. Most of your creeps run with tactical mitigation, great! But that is not going to make a whole lot of difference when said creep is up against an LM pushing 115-120% tactical mastery, 90-100% physical, sufficient crit (6-7k) and finesse (4-5k+) and 7.5 to 8k power. I generally sit around such stats - sometimes if I feel lucky I'll swap in a level 58 ring with 6% crit multiplier, with hardly any will, and STILL hit 112% dps with plenty of will, power, and everything else. Once again, you've somehow juxtaposed two things which don't really have a direct relationship. Power pool.. and tactical mitigation? I've seen LMs on E running around with 5k power pools. Yeah, sure, if one of them runs into a decent defiler I suspect they will run into a lot of trouble. And, uh... if an LM was running around with a power pool of "100000000000000k" no amount of tactical mitigation is going to save you from being one shot. I suggest you take greater care in the way you link ideas together.
I'm not even sure if it is worthwhile addressing anything else - as for your defiler running into LMs who can't simply keep up sufficient DPS... Hm. Come to Elendilmir sometime. There are a few here who will surprise you, I think.
It's a tough fight. People consistently list defilers as the toughest class to 1v1. You might have better luck posting in the loremaster forums or the freep forums. Anyway, a couple things you might try....
Are flies CC immune or affected by DR? If not, then you should be able to easily blinding flash them or root them and move away. The power drain has a short radius, maybe 5 m.
You could also try traiting the eagle for the auto-interrupt because (despite what another poster said on this thread) flies have a 1 second induction even when traited, and so do most of the big defiler heals.
Even if you do manage to deal with the flies, I'm not sure an LM has enough DPS to burn through defiler hots. On the other hand a defiler has no DPS so if you trait your own power drain, you may be able to turn the tables on them after a while.
First off thank you all for the tips - I agree that if you plan for 1v1 against Deff you can improve ur chances drastically by Trating Eagle and Frost Lore (for the induction delays) + eat food for the extra ICPR.
All classes do not match-up well, and in this case, the class match-up is skewed heavily in favor of the defiler.
In a agreed upon 1v1, if a high-ranked defiler is dependent upon flies - trait or r5 skill - to kill an LM, it's a trash defiler out looking for an easy win.
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Originally Posted by Vaapad
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