Glad to see it takes this many freeps with healing minis cappies the works to take down the warg pack so pro. We did have fun farming double our number in freeps at the rez for an entire 30m or so was alot of free infamy ty so much.
Let me see if I have this straight, you had a warg pack of 4, was farming the rez, looks like they grouped up and tried to fight in YOUR npc's and you make a post about it Baph?
Should they have just kept feeding your pack 1-2 at a time? I dont understand what your trying to get at.
Let me see if I have this straight, you had a warg pack of 4, was farming the rez, looks like they grouped up and tried to fight in YOUR npc's and you make a post about it Baph?
Should they have just kept feeding your pack 1-2 at a time? I dont understand what your trying to get at.
best windfola pvp is on the forums wrok - let us not forget this
Glad to see it takes this many freeps with healing minis cappies the works to take down the warg pack so pro. We did have fun farming double our number in freeps at the rez for an entire 30m or so was alot of free infamy ty so much.
So what is pro again???.....buying skills from the lotro store???
I think he's trying to say it's quite pro that a pack of four repeatedly beat a group of freeps at least double their numbers, from near a blue rez, and also when they zerged OC looking' for 'em.
That, or steak burger is what's really pro.
And honestly now, can you disagree with him?
Can you really???
Originally Posted by TheRampage396
So what is pro again???.....buying skills from the lotro store???
Pretty sure most people that've spent any amount of time in the moors will agree creeps need some way of acquiring their skills that doesn't involve grinding out rank, and particularly considering they have to fight freeps - who come out with all their skills at hand and also (in a good number of cases) decked out with good gear - for it.
Basically, freeps of all kinds, whether they let their bank account take direct control of their character with buffs and consumables, whether they are terrible raiders or fantastic soloers that was part of the background zerg. They all got their asses kicked for farming unorganised and terribly distributed noobs (maybe not all ) in groups to intentionally overkill. Shame more of the bank accountants couldn't stay to get their reach around too.
The &&& kicking went on for so long, it must have pulled some ego's backwards, and actually made some freeps think that creeps have advantages.
Pretty sure most people that've spent any amount of time in the moors will agree creeps need some way of acquiring their skills that doesn't involve grinding out rank, and particularly considering they have to fight freeps - who come out with all their skills at hand and also (in a good number of cases) decked out with good gear - for it.
No, they shouldn't. That's the entire purpose and game for the Creep. You don't level, you rank. You get skills by ranking.
It's like you're arguing that Freeps do nothing to get their characters ready for the moors, like they just magically level up, have all their deeds and virtues done, and all their gear handed to them.
A Freep would easily spent a couple months (probably more if they're going for BiS) getting in fighting shape, so why shouldn't a Creep do the same? And they do, that's the dynamic. That's how it works.
Not directed to you Shaparo but more in response to a lot of the threads here, I find it funny how serious some take this and how some think they are so skillful, like they're so much better at pressing buttons or something.
Most every fight comes down to numbers, match-ups, or availability of cool-downs for most that have spent any time out here. There's a slight learning curve for both sides to figure out the match-up, but this isn't rocket science like some seem to think.
And anyone using the term pro, isn't one of them. Real pros ain't wasting their time lecturing others on how they should play, they're busy being... well, pro.
No, they shouldn't. That's the entire purpose and game for the Creep. You don't level, you rank. You get skills by ranking.
It's like you're arguing that Freeps do nothing to get their characters ready for the moors, like they just magically level up, have all their deeds and virtues done, and all their gear handed to them.
A Freep would easily spent a couple months (probably more if they're going for BiS) getting in fighting shape, so why shouldn't a Creep do the same? And they do, that's the dynamic. That's how it works.
A just rebuttal, and one I expected, because it's been bandied about for a long while now.
The thing is, the grind on freepside takes only PvE. You're not fighting intelligent (or otherwise) people to level or (unless you actually decide to PvP for every single commendation towards Audacity sets) gear up, you're fighting scripted AI. Let's face it, killing off a thousand and wargs and orcs in Dunland is not a patch over straight-up PvP, where the opponent can actually intelligently react or even forestall your actions. Yes, it takes ages to take a freep toon to 75 and then deck them out for battle, but the fact is you can do that at your own pace outside the moors, relatively hassle-free (insofar as you won't be killed off by a BA or - considering creepside atm - ganking warg).
That creeps come in straight at 75 but are severely underpowered is due to Turbine's insistence on considering PvP'ers second-class citizens. It made no sense to let every freep come out to the moors with at least a basic knowledge of their skills and how to use them - and, lest you forget it, potentially tons of experience raiding thanks to instances - while creeps had to fight them despite being out-healed, out-CC'd, outgunned and often even outnumbered. And all the while, they're hoping to rank up to at least 10 or 11 over a year or so in order to get all their skills, assuming they even stick it out that long in the first place.
Thankfully, Turbine finally realized this (credit where it's due; they've made many gaffes, but they've rectified at least this one), and opted to make skills available to all creeps from green skins on, but with the caveat that they will have to spend TP ($$$) for it. It's a tradeoff that speaks volumes about their long-standing profit-centric motives, but reasonable. If you call that pay-to-win, I have to disagree. It's more pay-to-be-adequate.
Most every fight comes down to numbers, match-ups, or availability of cool-downs for most that have spent any time out here.
- Calesvol
This is only true if all you do is zerg. So while it's true for quite a few on this server that certainly doesn't make it a universal law.
If you 1v1, numbers aren't a factor and neither are cooldowns, unless you are (and I know for a fact you are) the type of person to blow every cd, both bubbles and pop hope, scrolls, and maybe even have captain buffs for a "1v1".
So then it comes down to what you describe as "match-ups" and what some others might describe as PvP.
Try exploring away from the zerg once in a while and you might be surprised at what you find.
Also it goes without saying that even in solo-zerg vs solo-zerg/solo-zerg vs group/group vs group situations it is also not all about numbers. Low ranked and inexperienced players on both sides are nowhere near as combat effective as most (but not all) ranked players, and an argument could be made that they actually hinder a group. But that's another argument. Consider yours refuted.
A just rebuttal, and one I expected, because it's been bandied about for a long while now.
The thing is, the grind on freepside takes only PvE. You're not fighting intelligent (or otherwise) people to level or (unless you actually decide to PvP for every single commendation towards Audacity sets) gear up, you're fighting scripted AI. Let's face it, killing off a thousand and wargs and orcs in Dunland is not a patch over straight-up PvP, where the opponent can actually intelligently react or even forestall your actions. Yes, it takes ages to take a freep toon to 75 and then deck them out for battle, but the fact is you can do that at your own pace outside the moors, relatively hassle-free (insofar as you won't be killed off by a BA or - considering creepside atm - ganking warg).
That creeps come in straight at 75 but are severely underpowered is due to Turbine's insistence on considering PvP'ers second-class citizens. It made no sense to let every freep come out to the moors with at least a basic knowledge of their skills and how to use them - and, lest you forget it, potentially tons of experience raiding thanks to instances - while creeps had to fight them despite being out-healed, out-CC'd, outgunned and often even outnumbered. And all the while, they're hoping to rank up to at least 10 or 11 over a year or so in order to get all their skills, assuming they even stick it out that long in the first place.
Thankfully, Turbine finally realized this (credit where it's due; they've made many gaffes, but they've rectified at least this one), and opted to make skills available to all creeps from green skins on, but with the caveat that they will have to spend TP ($$$) for it. It's a tradeoff that speaks volumes about their long-standing profit-centric motives, but reasonable. If you call that pay-to-win, I have to disagree. It's more pay-to-be-adequate.
have to agree with every point here. play mostly freepside solo burg at this point, but a creep w/o skills i could probably take all my gear off but my dagger and still kill it. factor in the low pop on windy (and many other servers) would take creeps forever to get those high ranked skills. now audacity replaces the skill grind, which is fine with me. let the creeps have every single skill to start, makes for far better fights.
i think if you don't feel this way, you don't spend enough time creepside - the old school grind was horrific.
If you 1v1, numbers aren't a factor and neither are cooldowns, unless you are (and I know for a fact you are) the type of person to blow every cd, both bubbles and pop hope, scrolls, and maybe even have captain buffs for a "1v1".
This couldn't be further from the truth as it relates to me. I rarely, if ever, have hope, scrolls, captain buffs, or really any combination of those, and if I did it wasn't because I popped them and it would be few and far between.
Now, 1v1 out in the wild, sure I'll use every CD I have if needed. But, I don't see anything wrong with that. That's just playing your class. That's the game. And, if making full use of all the class tools available somehow diminishes your skill as a player, then I just don't get it. Seems to me, that's what separates good from bad.
Now, you can make the argument against store-bought buffs or even destiny I guess, which I don't use either (although I did try out the no falling injuries TP thing the other night), but I got no problem with people using perks.
Again, it's part of the game and all is fair in love and war. I don't use them not because I'm against it, I just don't have the TP or destiny, and quite frankly I just don't care about PVP enough to where I need to win at all costs.
Originally Posted by DrGonzoJD
So then it comes down to what you describe as "match-ups" and what some others might describe as PvP. Try exploring away from the zerg once in a while and you might be surprised at what you find.
I spend the majority of my time out in the moors roaming. I'm always looking for a small, good fight. I'll solo zerg from time to time depending on what's going on, but honestly I'd much rather run into a random Creep or two out away from the fight than a shuffle or keep fight.
And yeah, match-ups is PVP, but some seem to think that being the rock to someone's scissor somehow makes them a skilled player when in fact it required no skill beyond having the favorable match-up.
And yeah, match-ups is PVP, but some seem to think that being the rock to someone's scissor somehow makes them a skilled player when in fact it required no skill beyond having the favorable match-up.
Champ is all 5, rock paper scissors lizard and spock, yet you still struggle to kill a r0.
Everything, and i can't stress this enough, everything but you .
ps: i dare say everyone, too.
He doesn't mean that, for a split second when he was posting this he forgot, that I exist, otherwise he would have never, ever said everyone.
I suppose that my cries for peace and love are going to fall upon deaf ears (like always), but none the less, do we all have to hate each other all the time? I <3 all you guys!
Champ is all 5, rock paper scissors lizard and spock, yet you still struggle to kill a r0.
<3, The big bang theory is only second to How i Met your Mother. And if someone can't kill a r0 they're playing blindfolded with their hands in a zip tie.
/2cents
Edit: ziptied behind his/her back.
Last edited by treef; Jul 18 2012 at 08:31 PM.
Reason: Cons had a good point
Treefnakh r6 warg Neverfear r7 WL, Treefraas r4 BA
<3, The big bang theory is only second to How i Met your Mother. And if someone can't kill a r0 they're playing blindfolded with their hands in a zip tie.
/2cents
have to agree with every point here. play mostly freepside solo burg at this point, but a creep w/o skills i could probably take all my gear off but my dagger and still kill it. factor in the low pop on windy (and many other servers) would take creeps forever to get those high ranked skills. now audacity replaces the skill grind, which is fine with me. let the creeps have every single skill to start, makes for far better fights.
i think if you don't feel this way, you don't spend enough time creepside - the old school grind was horrific.
<3 lawrencetaylor except for the time he bubble kited my reaver
Basically, Windfola Freeps were bad and Windfola Creeps were bad, but a small group of Creeps (i.e. store-bought Wargs) that could communicate basic commands to each other were able to thwart the advances and/or retreats of players that were mostly extremely terrible.
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Originally Posted by RodhinKinning
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) in groups to intentionally overkill. Shame more of the bank accountants couldn't stay to get their reach around too. 
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Mad kid
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