Thread: New Creep Class

I know this has been put out a lot, and I apologize, for bringing up an old thread. But I wanted to know what people thought of making a Morroval Class. And maybe provide lore supporting it and rank pictures? I was attempting to map the class out myself after seeing a few mentions of it in the forums, but got stuck on a few points, chiefly the ones above. So far I only have the description, the class name, nine skills(initial and rank 1), the stats of the character untraited, and the stats of an untraited companion. Main problem was I didn't know what to put for the companion, creature wise, I already have skills for it too (making 12 skills, total). So, if you made it through that confusing bit, I guess what I am trying to ask is what is some supporting lore to make Morroval a creep class, and possibly rank pictures (16 pictures total, r0-15), and what you think of making a new Morroval Creep class. Thank you for reading that, and I will post what I have so far if I get a chance to correct what I suspect are problems with lore.

Originally Posted by TheObserver5967

Morroval Class.

Er.....no thank you. If any new creep class, please make it a Goblin or a Sorcerer/Sorceress type.

May I know why this is a bad idea? I just heard people asking for new creep classes, and Morroval came up a few times so I started working on that. If you have better ideas, please tell me. If this is a bad idea, I'd rather not put more time into it. Also, please give me something else to try on. I've been wanting to help make a new class for a while. Maybe put a couple ideas together, or some votes?

How can they make a morroval class, whan you fight them in getting into op?????

Never thought about that. My only guess on what the argument was that it was along the lines that men fight men, dwarves fight dwarves, so why not let Morrovals fight Morrovals? Sorry for not checking up on that!

Only thing they could make is goblin or sorcerer, cuz there is nothing else in the map, that you don't fight against...

I guess then, maybe help me come up with what type of goblin class/ sorcerer class? How they would fit into lore, and rank skins? Maybe some supplement skills, or what there Primary/Secondary role is? Probably other points. So should I get to work on that, and show you what I get? (stopping at the initial skills or rank 1, so I can get feedback on where I need to fix, and what I should put in)

Originally Posted by TheObserver5967

May I know why this is a bad idea? I just heard people asking for new creep classes, and Morroval came up a few times so I started working on that. If you have better ideas, please tell me. If this is a bad idea, I'd rather not put more time into it. Also, please give me something else to try on. I've been wanting to help make a new class for a while. Maybe put a couple ideas together, or some votes?

Because A. they are aesthetically ridiculous, B. they are hostile to creeps, C. they are not unique enough or do not fill a niche that could not be filled by a more intimidating creature.

The best alternative is either a Cargul or an Angmarim.

Originally Posted by Squelcher

Because A. they are aesthetically ridiculous, B. they are hostile to creeps, C. they are not unique enough or do not fill a niche that could not be filled by a more intimidating creature.

The best alternative is either a Cargul or an Angmarim.

I still don't know why they didn't add an Angmarim in the first place... I mean seriously! Angmar = Shadows of Angmar= start of lotro, Ettenmoors = Angmar army battles out the Free People - Any actual Angmarim involved or in site on the battlefield???????

??? I just don't get it lol xD

... yet there are Angmarim npc selling potions in Grams... great -.-... hope everyone (including Turbine!) can tell I wanted to play as an Angmarim lol

EDIT!: I mean can you just imagine a raid of these guys walking towards Elf Camp... they would just zerg Freeps like a boss. (and a taste of there own medicine )

Originally Posted by Squelcher

The best alternative is either a Cargul or an Angmarim.

Cargul would be overpowered for your average player.
Angmarim is a very good idea, as the army in the Ettenmoors is out of Angmar.
The problem of course is finding a role for the new class that won't wreck PvMP.

I once had a new class idea thread. Don't expect anything out of these. Sorry to say so, but...

Originally Posted by Etarion

Cargul would be overpowered for your average player.
Angmarim is a very good idea, as the army in the Ettenmoors is out of Angmar.
The problem of course is finding a role for the new class that won't wreck PvMP.

I once had a new class idea thread. Don't expect anything out of these. Sorry to say so, but...

I would've thought that Uruks that stand a clear 2 feet over grown men would be a bit above the average player too, but Turbine likes to deceive.

For the purpose of not spamming the forums even more with this, want to help make a class with me on this thread?

Originally Posted by Etarion

Cargul would be overpowered for your average player.
Angmarim is a very good idea, as the army in the Ettenmoors is out of Angmar.
The problem of course is finding a role for the new class that won't wreck PvMP.

I once had a new class idea thread. Don't expect anything out of these. Sorry to say so, but...

Freeps are overpowered so what is one class on creepside? Oh wait, flayer is being flayed because some freeps can't faceroll them....carry on...

Wreck PvMP.....I don't think that is possible. Its pretty wrecked already. One freep (looking at you wardens) can solo a keep and walk out smiling while a creep has to wrestle with the bird for a win.....

In terms of Cargul being overpowered I was referring to being overpowered in Lore, not game play. Uruks still die in droves when they fight against ordinary human soldiers, so it's not much of a problem putting them in as opposed to playable Wraiths. In regards to wrecking PvMP, there's no need to make a bad situation worse.

To the OP, if you want to start a new class thread, you should at least figure out what role your theoretical class would play, and how it would be different than other Creep classes while still adding to the group mechanics. That's the hard part. After that class creation is just tedious busywork and trying to find ideas for new skills.
But consider your end goal here, what are you trying to achieve, and is it even possible?

If they can get rid of the wargs I'd be more than happy to let in a morroval. But first, let's work on getting what classes we have helped.

I can give you a basic idea of the skins for a Sorcerer type, alternating between male and female each rank (so players can choose whether they want to be a Sorcerer or Sorceress the whole way). Their randomly spawned weapon would probably be a staff, even though these guys can clearly handle a sword and crossbow quite well.

EDIT: see my post below for skin ideas.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

Er.....no thank you. If any new creep class, please make it a Goblin or a Sorcerer/Sorceress type.

Is it just me who refuse to play tactical classes because it's ezmode?

Here ya go, I made an example picture of possible skins. (right click => View Image to enlarge)
Like I said earlier, I chose to alternate between male and female at every new rank, so that the player has the choice to play as male or female. The two R0 skins would be one as male (not depicted below, I couldn't find a basic looking male's robe) and one as female.







As for class role, they would be a tactical DPS class with mostly dots and debuffing. Possibly with a spirit pet, but Spiders already have that area covered so it isn't needed. Damage type would obviously be shadow and fire.
The Black Numenorian NPC's AoE stun would also make a fine addition as a skill, as would a cowering or fear skill, just to give them a little bit of survival CC.
Although a lot of these are shown to have healing abilities as NPCs, I feel making them a healer as well would be far too OP. A self-heal would be fine I reckon though. To make sure it's not too powerful, you could have them do their signature sitting/kneeling animation with a channel-skill heal over time. That way it can be interrupted but still has use.

before making a new creep class, fix the old ones.

Hello I really think it would be a great idea making an evil made especially as it would fit in perfectly. We need one!

Originally Posted by grapez

Is it just me who refuse to play tactical classes because it's ezmode?

Lol Grapsn, you played Burg when it was easy, then Hunter and now you play mainly Warg, dosn`t need to be a Tactical Class to be current easy mode.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

Here ya go, I made an example picture of possible skins. (right click => View Image to enlarge)
Like I said earlier, I chose to alternate between male and female at every new rank, so that the player has the choice to play as male or female. The two R0 skins would be one as male (not depicted below, I couldn't find a basic looking male's robe) and one as female.







As for class role, they would be a tactical DPS class with mostly dots and debuffing. Possibly with a spirit pet, but Spiders already have that area covered so it isn't needed. Damage type would obviously be shadow and fire.
The Black Numenorian NPC's AoE stun would also make a fine addition as a skill, as would a cowering or fear skill, just to give them a little bit of survival CC.
Although a lot of these are shown to have healing abilities as NPCs, I feel making them a healer as well would be far too OP. A self-heal would be fine I reckon though. To make sure it's not too powerful, you could have them do their signature sitting/kneeling animation with a channel-skill heal over time. That way it can be interrupted but still has use.

The appearance under the rk12 skin looks awesome! Wish Turbine would make this class happen, this is prove that they would only have to work on the class skills/etc since the appearances are all ready to be used.

P.S I think rk14 appearance should replace the rk15 one, it looks much better

Originally Posted by Brandybardard

The appearance under the rk12 skin looks awesome! Wish Turbine would make this class happen, this is prove that they would only have to work on the class skills/etc since the appearances are all ready to be used.

P.S I think rk14 appearance should replace the rk15 one, it looks much better

I agree, it does look better, but I was trying to alternate between male & female skins.


(Also, lol spider cleavage)

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

depicted below, I couldn't find a basic looking male's robe) and one as female.

An excellent selection of skins. God damn it I wish Turbine would just LISTEN AND DO SOMETHING when players provide brilliant suggestions like this. STOP IGNORING US AND STOP PRETENDING TO BE BRAINDEAD MONKEYS. *Waits for smug infraction from a GM.

Originally Posted by Siege_of_Mirkwood

before making a new creep class, fix the old ones.

I also agree with this, but a new class would help to even out faction vs faction balance. Then we could refocus on class vs class.

Originally Posted by Reapor

Lol Grapsn, you played Burg when it was easy, then Hunter and now you play mainly Warg, dosn`t need to be a Tactical Class to be current easy mode.

Never enjoyed the burg class in em so I'm just using him for sparing now and then to learn the class properly. Hunter was my first class and my burg is less then 6 months old at the cap. Maybe you thought some other burg was me?
Burg is an easy class to play in moors once you learned to use all the skills but I believe it was even easier before I leveled him up.

Warg is ezmode? It might be easier then hunter(unless you are a raid baby hunter or a Rave hugger, hint hint) but I played my warg before U6 also. I hit r9 two days after that update. Pouncing from stealth and end up dead was more common then to actually get some infamy back then. Oh sweet revenge!
Rk's and minis are not OP but godmode and I could never get myself to level up one. I should have been more spesific and say that casters are ezmode. I do have a WL, it's a tactical class(I think) but sure isn't ezmode.

I agree you don't have to be a tactical/caster class to be easy mode. (ref: champ and burg). But don't say playing any creep class is easy mode. If a freep get farmed by wargs it's usually because there are 10+ wargs against 3 freeps. Often most of those wargs usually play on freep. lol.
Maybe thats why I spent so much time on reaver and wl lately :P

Take it easy Reapor. Right now Im having a break from the game for some strange reason but cya when I get my motivation back. Maybe I log in now and then but lets see..

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

Here ya go, I made an example picture of possible skins. (right click => View Image to enlarge)
Like I said earlier, I chose to alternate between male and female at every new rank, so that the player has the choice to play as male or female. The two R0 skins would be one as male (not depicted below, I couldn't find a basic looking male's robe) and one as female.







As for class role, they would be a tactical DPS class with mostly dots and debuffing. Possibly with a spirit pet, but Spiders already have that area covered so it isn't needed. Damage type would obviously be shadow and fire.
The Black Numenorian NPC's AoE stun would also make a fine addition as a skill, as would a cowering or fear skill, just to give them a little bit of survival CC.
Although a lot of these are shown to have healing abilities as NPCs, I feel making them a healer as well would be far too OP. A self-heal would be fine I reckon though. To make sure it's not too powerful, you could have them do their signature sitting/kneeling animation with a channel-skill heal over time. That way it can be interrupted but still has use.

Conveys my thoughts on a new class perfectly. A tactical anti=healing Nuker. It won't ever be added but its fun to wish.

The Angmarim Sorcerer is well covered here. Love the skin ideas.

Another obvious choice is a Goblin Sapper. Fire pots, debuffs, AOE bombs, nets. There are tons of goblin skins that could be slightly modified to fit the Sapper mold.

I too think a Morroval class would be fun as well, though their more neutral lore narrative in the Moors is problematic.

The Angmarim Sorcerer/Sorceress sounds like a good first idea, and if we get a chance after, we could work on Sapper, assuming this works out well.
A few questions though:
What do you see the class being like?
What should it be strong against?
Weak against?
What should its Primary Role be , and Secondary Role? (for that one,EXAMPLE: Weaver- Primary:Crowd Control, Secondary: Debuff)
And last, what do you see this class doing in combat?
Really helps get a good design base for later on if we can answer these quickly.

a new class? haha yea sure like turbine will ever do that.

they can't even bother to revamp our traits system that is so old, imporving trait ranks, trait lines etc etc.... a new class pffff, some more useless typo fixes and 100 more tooltip dmg is what you can expect.. oh and more useless morale to get nuked with.

Originally Posted by TheObserver5967

The Angmarim Sorcerer/Sorceress sounds like a good first idea, and if we get a chance after, we could work on Sapper, assuming this works out well.
A few questions though:
What do you see the class being like?

Personally I'd like to see it take the role I described above.

What should it be strong against?

Well hopefully freeps. :P

Weak against?

As NPCs, Evil Men and especially Black Numenorians have mostly been weak against Westernesse damage. I don't see a reason to break that tradition.

What should its Primary Role be , and Secondary Role? (for that one,EXAMPLE: Weaver- Primary:Crowd Control, Secondary: Debuff)

Tactical DPS and a debuffer.

And last, what do you see this class doing in combat?
Really helps get a good design base for later on if we can answer these quickly.

- Shadow dots and debuffs of the varieties -Fate/Will, -Fear Resistance and -Shadow Defense (all resistable and removable as Fear)
- The signature Black Numenorian AoE fire Stun
- Fire cracks or Fear cracks on the floor like we always see them do as NPCs
- A fear or a cower perhaps?
- Channeled heal-over-time, with their signature kneeling/sitting animation
- (possibly summoning a temporary spirit? A normal pet seems too OP and is already filled in by Weaver class)

At BirdOfHermes:
Strong Against and Weak Against- I meant class wise. Example, a Runekeeper is weak to a Warg because the Warg can pounce, silence, and stun them until they die. Runekeeper is strong against Reaver, because most attacks from the Reaver are close combat, and Runekeepers can no induction kite them down. How exactly do you want to see Tactical Dps- kiting with little to no induction skills, or standing still with long inductions for high damage? And could you please post the animations you could find for the things you described? Sorry for asking all that. If you can describe the points above, I could get working on skills and traits, and possibly post them soon. Thanks.

Originally Posted by TheObserver5967

At BirdOfHermes:
Strong Against and Weak Against- I meant class wise. Example, a Runekeeper is weak to a Warg because the Warg can pounce, silence, and stun them until they die. Runekeeper is strong against Reaver, because most attacks from the Reaver are close combat, and Runekeepers can no induction kite them down. How exactly do you want to see Tactical Dps- kiting with little to no induction skills, or standing still with long inductions for high damage? And could you please post the animations you could find for the things you described? Sorry for asking all that. If you can describe the points above, I could get working on skills and traits, and possibly post them soon. Thanks.

Oh right. Well in the end no good creep is a match for a good freep anyway, so I don't think it matters much. If anything, it would be good vs tanks (and maybe Burglars) because tactical skills can't be blocked, parried or evaded. As for animations, you can do a few instances like Carn Dum, Barad Gularan or Ost Elendil to see most of them.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

Oh right. Well in the end no good creep is a match for a good freep anyway, so I don't think it matters much. If anything, it would be good vs tanks (and maybe Burglars) because tactical skills can't be blocked, parried or evaded. As for animations, you can do a few instances like Carn Dum, Barad Gularan or Ost Elendil to see most of them.

Heya bird I stummbled on this thread and saw others wanted an angmarim class as well. In my server's pvmp forum's Ive been working away on just that:

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...6-The-Angmarim

would love suggestions and to others who want to say "Well that skill is stupidly op" well yeah its just a design lol anything can be changed

I think I might have a crack at it one of these days. But I doubt it would ever get implemented.

Derpon: Mind if I just have the forum redirected to your page? Also, would it be alright if I attempted to add things on to the class you have labeled in your forum?

Originally Posted by TheObserver5967

Derpon: Mind if I just have the forum redirected to your page? Also, would it be alright if I attempted to add things on to the class you have labeled in your forum?

you can surely redirect the forum to mine, but add on how?

A new class would defenitally spice things up on the moors, and the Angmarim would make sense. Not only that, if people think, there is already a player-played Angmarim in the game.

[SPOILER ALERT!]
Volume 1: Book 14, Chapter 4: The Prisoner of Sammath Baul

In that quest, there is a session play for an Angmarim in the service of the new steward of Angmar. I would encourage people to play/replay this quest to learn of the abilities of the Angmarim for comparision.
[/SPOILER END]

Turbine would not have to create a class from scratch, they would mearly have to update a class and convert it to monster play. It even has a starting skill set avalible. Of course, they would have to create additional skills for rank ups, but that is a different story...

Originally Posted by davidrspiers

If they can get rid of the wargs I'd be more than happy to let in a morroval. But first, let's work on getting what classes we have helped.

Will people please stop hating on the Wargs. I know you're jealous of our luxurious coats, but c'mon. Enough is enough!

I wish there was something we could do to make the incompetent devs take in Hermes' excellent idea. He has basically done all the conceptual work for them...