Thread: Elf Champion DW, or 2H?

Hello All,
I am not new to the Champion class, itself. But my problem deals in both gameplay, and roleplay: I have made an Elf Champion, and wanted other Elf Champ's opinions on whether they use Dual-Wield, or a Two-Hander. Elves stance with the 2H looks kind of strange, yet 2H swords look very nice imo. On the other hand Dual Wielding nice swords is a pretty good option, except for prices. I saw swords pricing at 700s per sword! Besides cost, and gameplay I'm looking also in a roleplay standards. Do many Elves roleplay with DW, or 2H? The question may sound trivial but it's rather important to me...

Any, and all help will be appreciated.

Thank you.

Whatever you want, it doesn't matter

ETA: rather, it's pretty much a wash, and this topic has been beaten to death

Yes, I know the topic has been brought up repeatedly, but aside from gameplay I'm also looking at this from a roleplay standard. That and more practicalities. The thing with your reply is I can't decide which I like better. Dual Wielding is cool, but so is swinging around a nice 2Her. WhichI may end up picking...

Well, for roleplaying just pick any old weapon that looks cool. The real issue is when you need to construct an end-game legendary weapon. And by that time, you ought to have a good idea which style you prefer.

Me, I played my female elf champion with a 2h sword for the longest time while leveling, but I ended up preferring the dw playstyle more and use 2 1-handed swords almost exclusively now.

For me i always think a champ welding a two hander has looked very stupid especially when using wild attack and swift strike and for a long time i wouldnt have entertained a two handed because of these reasons so in terms of looks i would say the dual wield .

The best approach is as follows:

On the character select screen, click your Elf champion and then click "Delete Character." Follow the on-screen prompts to delete the character permantently. Then click "New Character" and make a dwarf champion. From there, you can use either 1h and 2h axes.

OK, then: for my female Elf champion, I chose 2H because I use power more slowly, and I chose a great axe because my avatar does not hold it stupidly like she does a great sword.

Though I also have an AOE-focused 1H sword and an offhand axe to play with.

Also, 700s is not much at level 75. Your elf champ is not public so I can't see his level, but if 700s is still expensive to you then don't worry so much about it.

Originally Posted by Gylve

The best approach is as follows:

On the character select screen, click your Elf champion and then click "Delete Character." Follow the on-screen prompts to delete the character permantently. Then click "New Character" and make a dwarf champion. From there, you can use either 1h and 2h axes.

This post just got me some strange looks from co-workers as I was cracking up.

From a RP perspective, I picture dwarves as being the 2H users while elves being DW. I guess it is the whole stocky and burly image versus dainty and agile. Men can be either. Just my opinion, though.

Originally Posted by Gylve

The best approach is as follows:

On the character select screen, click your Elf champion and then click "Delete Character." Follow the on-screen prompts to delete the character permantently. Then click "New Character" and make a dwarf champion. From there, you can use either 1h and 2h axes.

I play a Man Champ, but plus rep for this post.

Lately I've switched to dual wielding a sword mainhand and a dagger offhand for my man champion. And I like that a lot.

Originally Posted by Gylve

The best approach is as follows:

On the character select screen, click your Elf champion and then click "Delete Character." Follow the on-screen prompts to delete the character permantently. Then click "New Character" and make a dwarf champion. From there, you can use either 1h and 2h axes.

I laughed so much I got a fit of hiccups!

I wanted to thank everyone for their replies so far. I finally resigned to giving my Elf a dual-wield build as resting a 2H sword on your shoulder really isn't intimidating :P Thanks to everyone, once more.

You may want to make use of your racial +2% 1H damage bonus, and DW

But really, it depends on the situation. DW is superior for tanking (definitely) and AoE (IMO). When you need burst DPS, 2H will get you the big numbers you need. For regular, sustained DPS, it's your choice really.

Cool, I like champs with 5 hand

Originally Posted by Haunt123

You may want to make use of your racial +2% 1H damage bonus, and DW

This!

I used DW while leveling to 65 after RoI came out the power issues moved me to 2h however after reaching 75 and having my gear mostly sorted out i have returned to DW swords - really missed it -

Lol, there's practically no difference with plus 2% damage or less 2% damage. But, for Champions, in my opinion DW is the best option. All the skills are based on 2 attacks, so you will miss less and will attack more fast.

Originally Posted by Gylve

The best approach is as follows:

On the character select screen, click your Elf champion and then click "Delete Character." Follow the on-screen prompts to delete the character permantently. Then click "New Character" and make a dwarf champion. From there, you can use either 1h and 2h axes.

Plus rep really funny. But with the post topic normally i see all elf npcs have 1 hander.

Originally Posted by Celestrus

Lol, there's practically no difference with plus 2% damage or less 2% damage. But, for Champions, in my opinion DW is the best option. All the skills are based on 2 attacks, so you will miss less and will attack more fast.

You are right in saying 2% damage won't make much of difference.
But, as I said, whether 2H is better than DW or not depends on the situation.

Originally Posted by Haunt123

You are right in saying 2% damage won't make much of difference.
But, as I said, whether 2H is better than DW or not depends on the situation.

Yes, depends. But, in a OVERALL view, 2H is the best option.

Overall it depends on the weapons you have.

2h legendary requires 1 additional strikes of luck when compared to 1h: Stat lines - some are really useless.
If you have a good off hand sword it might be quite more effective DW

Originally Posted by Celestrus

Yes, depends. But, in a OVERALL view, 2H is the best option.

Overall view? lol. If you agree that the use of both weapons is situational, you can't say "but 2h is the best option". DW beats 2H in tanking and in AoE, and is more or less matched in sustained DPS. I wonder what the "overall view" you are referring to is.

My champ is now 56, so I am not an expert by any means...

However I have been hotswapping between DW and 2H, and so far it really seems to speed up my rotations. Basically I build fervour in DW because of the faster weapon speed, then spend it with a 2H for the larger hits. The only thing I have found so far is that hitting enemies 2 or more levels above, DW seems to be a lot better because the effects from missing do not lower overall damage as much.

Has anyone else tried this?

Before RoI, I used to build my pips with DW and swap to 2H for relentless/remorseless. Pip building was and is quicker in DW, and 2H gave me that huge number I wanted

But post RoI I have decided to stick with 2H. Also, I avoid hotswapping now, due to that massive period of lag it causes.

Originally Posted by Celestrus

Lol, there's practically no difference with plus 2% damage or less 2% damage. But, for Champions, in my opinion DW is the best option. All the skills are based on 2 attacks, so you will miss less and will attack more fast.

Ummm...2% is roughly the equivalent of ~770 Phys Mastery and there isn't a person here who wouldn't take extra PhysMastery if it was essentially free (or at the cost of a cosmetic). At end game folks fight and scrap for tenth's of a percent so 2% for, essentially, chosing one particular weapon cosmetic is a pretty awesome and easily obtained bonus.

I'v noticed that all these posts are about what people prefer more but it's really what you prefer more. DW is generally better for DPS because you can attack faster and have more little hits per button press. It is also worthy to note this will use mych more power than the alternative.

The alternative is 2H which is better for AOE and DPS (depending if you use flurry of blows). You will find yourseelf hitting ALOT higher critz but will attack slower(if not using flurry).

Staying with the theme of this thread I will post my thoughts on the topic. I used DW untill 75 when I started experimenting with 2H. I found that I could kill regular mobs faster and use less power(which is usually important since champs have major power problems *Fate: 56 Will: 97* So now I use a 2H for tanking,DPS,and AOE.

In the end it all falls to you. My final words of advice are, EXPERIMENT you will never know which one you like better without practice.

Originally Posted by ajc196

In the end it all falls to you. My final words of advice are, EXPERIMENT you will never know which one you like better without practice.

Before experimenting, I would also suggest reading the damage numbers in skill tooltips for DW and 2h and then make an educated guess as to which skills are better for which style. There are skills that gain an extra blow when dual wielding, skills that don't get _any_ bonus at all from off hand weapon (and therefore are not recommended for DW use) and skills that just do more damage dual wielding.

When trying to get the max out of 2h, you will probably use about as much power as dual wielding.

From my experience (started out as an ardent DW user, just because it felt smoother and more "for me") DW is great for AoE (and tanking) and 2h has a slight edge in single target DPS. The difference in single target DPS is probably in single digit percentages. In the end it's rather a wash between the two styles.

PS: Elves do indeed look the best with a 2h axe!

Originally Posted by ajc196

I'v noticed that all these posts are about what people prefer more but it's really what you prefer more. DW is generally better for DPS because you can attack faster and have more little hits per button press. It is also worthy to note this will use mych more power than the alternative.

The alternative is 2H which is better for AOE and DPS (depending if you use flurry of blows). You will find yourseelf hitting ALOT higher critz but will attack slower(if not using flurry).

Staying with the theme of this thread I will post my thoughts on the topic. I used DW untill 75 when I started experimenting with 2H. I found that I could kill regular mobs faster and use less power(which is usually important since champs have major power problems *Fate: 56 Will: 97* So now I use a 2H for tanking,DPS,and AOE.

In the end it all falls to you. My final words of advice are, EXPERIMENT you will never know which one you like better without practice.

Some thoughts:

1) If you run in Fervour (and if you are DPSing you should be) there is NO reason not to run Flurry of Blows, the perma-flurry buff is THE most powerful DPS-additive tool in the game.

2) With that a full on DPS build will see negligible difference between 2H and DW, most of any difference will come from prefered playstyle and comfort level with the method (same with hot-swapping). Its an endless morass that has been waded in to for a long time but the quick answer remains: play what you prefer.

3) For tanking you should be DWing...period, full stop...emphasis again: When tanking you should DW. The quicker attacks means all of your defensive buff skills (Hedge, BA, BW if you have the Othrod set bonus) can be run through more rapidly on the way to adding in other needed skills for the rotation like Improved Rend, Flurry, 2nd Wind, Wild Attack, and a strike skill. Moreover the offhand means less chance of missing on a bracing attack and...most critically, the extra stats you can load on to an off-hand. Simply put for tanking any option other than DW is sub-optimal.

4) If you have power issues there are a couple threads dealing with that and how to cope (long story short: get all 3 power reduction legacies on your rune and hit 2nd Wind everytime its up)

I'm an elf champion. Haunt123 is pretty much right on with his comments.

The one thing I'll add is that since RoI, a 2H is pretty much a must in a champs' arsenal because brutal + clobber generates a lot of damage using a 2H while requiring only 3 PiPs to execute.

With our bubbles and caps now uncapped on might, in almost all regular game play, it doesn't matter. However, in DPS raids, tight instances where DPS does matter and the Moors, the 2H makes the difference because-

- Big hits can be generated constantly rotating brutal and ferocious, and

- In the moors, being able to hit those fast moving wargs with big hits from brutal + clobber with only 3 pips is really key.

I carry two 1H and two 2H swords (soon to be obsolete with RoR ). One of my 1H is for defense/tanking the other 1H for AoE. One of my 2H is for hard hitting raids where I can dump hate on the tank and the other 2H is for the Moors.

At least for myself, I find that my 2Hs are usable during tank and AoE situations; but, the 1Hs can't generate enough DPS fast enough in the Moors.

Again, just IMHO. There's been many prior posts by high level end game champs that said "it doesn't matter." From my perspective as a "not so high level" end game champ, I've found having 2Hs does matter after RoI.

Originally Posted by pwl120

The one thing I'll add is that since RoI, a 2H is pretty much a must in a champs' arsenal

I'm still not on the boat with people saying 2H is a MUST or 2H clearly outdoes 1H, as I regularly find my DPS to be more than competitive with the DPS of pure 2H or macro-swapping Champs (on dummies and in raids as well).

Originally Posted by pwl120

because brutal + clobber generates a lot of damage using a 2H while requiring only 3 PiPs to execute.

No, Brutal+Clobber still requires 4 Pips (3 for Brutal and 1 for Clobber). Not adding Clobber right after Brutall will hammer your DPS.

Originally Posted by pwl120

in DPS raids, tight instances where DPS does matter ... the 2H makes the difference

I've played with lots of 2H Champs on my Server (Morthond; we have plenty of very good Champs on our server) and I still have to see just one of them outdps me. There are two excellent Champs whom I haven't played with (Morizena, currently retired, and Alvakowski) on my server, but from parses and discussions I am pretty much sure that I'm on par with their DPS. I have some DPS number in the Champ DPS thread.

Originally Posted by pwl120

- In the moors, being able to hit those fast moving wargs with big hits from brutal + clobber with only 3 pips is really key.

That's where I agree with you, you'll probably be better served with a 2H setup in the moors, as you'll want all of your hits to be big, since you won't connect all that many hits with enemies constantly kiting and trying to avoid your melee range.

2H does not have a clear advantage over DW dps-wise. On the training-dummies (w/o buffs), for 3 minutes, I was able to mantain 1.3k DPS with DW, Remorseless+clobber only, and 1.5k with 2h, Brutal+clobber only (Don't judge, I only used my pip builders and remorsless/clobber or brutal/clobber). This was mainly because I got lucky with crits with the 2H, and not so lucky with DW.

Their DPS is surprisingly (to me) around the same.

I've been playing around with a 1st Age 2H and I've been really happy with the DPS. However, I did make 2 big changes while using it: it has the armor rend legacy on it and I've been traiting Improved Rend for boss fights, something I wasn't doing previously and I stacked it with crit relics so my crit rating is 1.1k higher with the 2h. So, my DPS has been reliably higher on purely single-target boss fights with the 2H, but I think DW would definitely be competitive if I had done the relics a little differently (which I plan to do for RoR). 2H also just feels very slow and clunky to me, so while it was fun for a while I'll be going back to DW at 85.