Woah, didn't expect to see this many replies over this .
Minor things? Yes. Things that make a massive difference in the moors, like a r15 brand on a r7 creep? No, nothing even remotely close.
There are probably kabillion of things here that people would say make a massive difference and yet with 8 Freeps and 6 Ranked Creeps you only find Minor things? I'm not sure how freep consumables work since I don't bother to play any of my freeps but a look at the skill bars is enough for me to say that I'd love to have the equivalent of freep skills .
Here is something that comes from the 70-75 lootbox on freepside.
Although I don't like this phrase as it reminds me of a certain evernight forum poster, this is a typical straw man argument. I would love to see you quote me saying that this will unbalance the moors overall or change the game significantly. However, for the people that have them, they will undoubtedly make a massive difference to gameplay, especially if you prefer solo/small group fights rather than zergs.
I don't see that many people using store brands, just a few people that pretty much spam them. Using your logic, this makes them fine, as they don't make much difference to the overall picture.
Well played. Directly quoted? No. Implied? I seem to remember the implication that these were somehow going to unbalance the game was what I originally responded to. Though, is it fair for me to use this very post where you say "they will undoubtedly make a massive difference to gameplay" above?
As for the store brands, I'm indifferent to them. I don't use them myself, (don't like spending TP for consumables) though know people on both sides who do. Brands change the tactics for both sides - whether store bought or not. Functionally, this is no different from a store brand - except in the savings in TP.
This is, in effect, roughly equal to a Freep getting their 1st age 75 from a lootbox or lottery - and I know more than one person in each category. A single item that gives them an advantage acquired through the luck of the draw rather than direct action or hard work.
Do I grudge them their win? Not really. It could just as easily have been me.
Not particularly. Whilst it would be nice to see them removed, they make Turbine money so I'm fairly confident they never will be. This item is clearly very similar to a store brand though, hence the comparison. I have yet to hear a reason why this brand is fine but, as most people on both sides seem to agree, store brands aren't (yes, it's rare, so what? A rare OP item is still OP).
Have you heard the term P2W, its a derogatory term often used on creepside for players who use enhancing buffs they buy from the store to give them an advantage they would not have otherwise. Why is that? Because its too often that is is freeps and only freeps who are using these store bought advantages. It could just be my server but i do not see anything outside of wargs who may use these brands, but i do see plenty of freeps pop them like candy on Halloween. If we were to remove store brands that would be a nice step in the direction of balance, but seeing as its currently lopsided with freeps using brands FAR more often than creeps, i in NO WAY see this as unjust or unfair, in fact i believe they could have gone a step further and made the brands tradeable.
Even so that's completely irrelevant when you can get blown up in a matter of seconds by a roving pack of freeps on speed-buffed horses rolling with FA's with store bought crystals, and as many as 4 rows of buffs including store-bought fall immunity (something that was once exclusively for burgs and spiders). Sure i just popped my store brand to help myself get away, oh wait the champs are on me with their 45s run buff and the minis are blasting away at me from a distance and a captain just sounded the charge, in a matter of 5 seconds i went from full to dead and the brand gave me a whole 2 extra seconds.
This doesnt happen for freeps, and its why you see them predominantly use brands. i APPLAUD turbines decision to make the Lootboxes finally give good loot. And here you are calling for 'nerf nerf nerf' and 'unfair advantage'. Get a grip and take a stroll in the moors sometime.
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We could make a list of hugely powerful skills that Freeps have, skills that made this games PvP so extremely unbalanced but I don't think it would help. How could it when his argument boils down to this; creeps have something good that Freeps don't have... QQ.
How about we give creeps at least 3 times the DPS?
How about 6 times the healing with no induction set back and devastate heals?
How about massive crit chance, crit magnitude and uncapped stats?
How about in combat weapon and armor swapping that enables you to maximise every skill with set bonuses and LI's.
These things are available to one side and not the other. These things are game changing. Show me OP where you have voiced your concern about these clearly terrible imbalances because if you have not and you choose to only speak out about this one thing.
Well......
I'll just leave this here too:
Anyone remember How Freeps QQed about the blight effect extending past the animated area? They did the same with WTE.
That sure looks like the effect of Tar extending ~100% past it's animated area.
Considering this thread is about the importance of CC and all I thought it might be relevant.
Have you heard the term P2W, its a derogatory term often used on creepside for players who use enhancing buffs they buy from the store to give them an advantage they would not have otherwise. Why is that? Because its too often that is is freeps and only freeps who are using these store bought advantages.
So you can get an equivalent of the r15 brand (in combat & 5min CD) from a lootbox now. What a great way to remove one of the last reasons for ranking. There's also no freepside equivalent, just the same as the fury pots (but I fully expect some people to say that is fine because creeps are underpowered).
Don't like this as much as i don't like p2w brands, not taking into account balance issues between freeps and creeps.
1 min immunity every 5 minutes is a too powerfull item imo, for either side, and I hate the fact that it's aquired by tons of pve grind and lot's of luck.. (don't think this can be bought in store now or can it?)
...and I hate the fact that it's aquired by tons of pve grind and lot's of luck.. (don't think this can be bought in store now or can it?)
It looks like an item like this will restart the NPC farming grind similar to what we did earlier when sigils were first announced.
I would not be surprised if we see an increase in the TP price for the keys.
There are only three "buffing" ( food not included ) consumables available to creeps : armour ( mitigations ) , evade & resist rating .
Freeps on the other hand can boost : damage , max morale , max power , mitigations , in combat run speed , resist rating , evade , critical chance , critical multiplier , parry & block ( am I missing anything ? ) . And yes , to clarify , all of these stats can be boosted through non-store consumables .
Where do you pull this from? Sounds like DP-Buffs to me more or less, they are available on both sides.
Also about food. You can have four running at the same time.
Regfood
Statboosts (63 on a crit I believe)
Resistance ratings (probably around the same as creep pots)
Runspeed (10% on a crit)
Keep in mind they are all removed upon death.
Other than that I have a couple of consumables to make me, as a hunter, competible. Also removed upon death.
All of these things are a pain in the &&& to craft, it takes long and you have different results since you can not crit everything. Different durations and effectiveness basically. The fact that these are removed upon death angers me to a point to rarely using any consumables other than the ones needed.
Now I would throw my cook, my farmer, my explorer, heck even my woodworker all out of the window, if I had the chance to trade armour, avoidances and resistance pots by a stack for 125 commendations and that are NOT BLOODY REMOVED upon death. Oh and the bugged slowimmunity brands of course.
There is a reason why there are more creeps using consumables (well at least the ones that do not have to spend these idiotic commendations on the even more idiotic audacity), than freeps and the reason is that any consumables are easier to farm creepside and even by doing PvP.
On the brand issue. Brands are a problem right now. The bugged slow-immunity to start with and over to the store brands or fall immunity pots. There are classes out there (both sides) that rely heavily on their ability to CC and slow. Due to the latest changes to CC in the moors and these brands mentioned, CC is a lacking ability. These brands do nothing to balance just insure more income through the store and to keep the low-ranks down on both sides.
Brands change every encounter. The inability to slow or stun hurts any combatant. Of course these loot boxes are rare. Still this item is not added to achieve balance but to sell keys and boxes.
With all the new changes Turbine really stuffed PvP up, the one thing in Lotro that ensured a steady base of players and long-term motivation.
Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
Collector of superb posts.
Where do you pull this from? Sounds like DP-Buffs to me more or less, they are available on both sides.
Also about food. You can have four running at the same time.
Regfood
Statboosts (63 on a crit I believe)
Resistance ratings (probably around the same as creep pots)
Runspeed (10% on a crit)
Keep in mind they are all removed upon death.
Does the coffee stack? I seem to remember that it doesn't stack with the stat boost food.
Originally Posted by VincentVanPort
Other than that I have a couple of consumables to make me, as a hunter, competible. Also removed upon death.
All of these things are a pain in the &&& to craft, it takes long and you have different results since you can not crit everything. Different durations and effectiveness basically. The fact that these are removed upon death angers me to a point to rarely using any consumables other than the ones needed.
Really? Crafting can be a little dull, but, seriously, for cooks it's a piece of cake. It's not even very expensive, and you can pay for your mats by selling off the excess.
Note that Creeps only have a limited number of consumables and all of the good ones are purchased with Commendations (now) rather than coin. Or Turbine Points. None of our basic pots or foods are comparable to high level freep foods or pots.
Originally Posted by VincentVanPort
Now I would throw my cook, my farmer, my explorer, heck even my woodworker all out of the window, if I had the chance to trade armour, avoidances and resistance pots by a stack for 125 commendations and that are NOT BLOODY REMOVED upon death. Oh and the bugged slowimmunity brands of course.
And I'm sure many of the Creeps would love to have the option to craft their own pots/foods/boosts/etc rather than have to spend commendations on them.
Please remember: we have to buy our skills, corruptions, traits, etc., with commendations too. We even have to spend 7500 for our skins.
Originally Posted by VincentVanPort
There is a reason why there are more creeps using consumables (well at least the ones that do not have to spend these idiotic commendations on the even more idiotic audacity), than freeps and the reason is that any consumables are easier to farm creepside and even by doing PvP.
On the brand issue. Brands are a problem right now. The bugged slow-immunity to start with and over to the store brands or fall immunity pots. There are classes out there (both sides) that rely heavily on their ability to CC and slow. Due to the latest changes to CC in the moors and these brands mentioned, CC is a lacking ability. These brands do nothing to balance just insure more income through the store and to keep the low-ranks down on both sides.
I understand your point on the monetary incentive for selling them with TP, but disagree on how massive the effect is on combat. In fact, I would argue that an LM's ability to keep a fellowship more or less permanently stun immune and remove debuffs has a larger effect - and doesn't require any special purchases.
Originally Posted by VincentVanPort
Brands change every encounter. The inability to slow or stun hurts any combatant. Of course these loot boxes are rare. Still this item is not added to achieve balance but to sell keys and boxes.
While I think you exaggerate how much these things affect combat - though the statement applies equally to both sides - you're probably right on the reasoning behind them. Of course, lootboxes on the Freepside are almost as bad in what they can give you vs what they probably will give you.
Originally Posted by VincentVanPort
With all the new changes Turbine really stuffed PvP up, the one thing in Lotro that ensured a steady base of players and long-term motivation.
Just because an item is rare doesn't mean that it isn't blatantly overpowered. You also underestimate how many people actually farm for these, I know of 5-6 creeps just yesterday that already knew about it and were constantly using them(this is on the smallest server). You don't win against a 6 man creep group (r9-10) that all double brand. Especially as a burglar.
Sure, creeps might need buffs. Wargs/BA's are solid classes that can put up a fight, other classes probably need some work. Giving creeps a r15 brand is still a terrible idea, that's not how you successfully balance a game.
I bet turbine thinks we will stop complaining about IMMUNITY TO ALL STORE BOUGHT BRANDS now because there is another way to get them in game that doesn't involve rank gating!
Another fail ;/
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It's totally fine guys. 99% of dedicated creeps are fine with it as long as they get it. It's not even worth your time. You can't prove a point to them.
It's totally fine guys. 99% of dedicated freeps are fine with it as long as they get it. It's not even worth your time. You can't prove a point to them.
It doesn't remove the only remaining significant benefit you get for reaching R15.
I don't see that many people using store brands, just a few people that pretty much spam them. Using your logic, this makes them fine, as they don't make much difference to the overall picture.
¿The only? You get a nice r15 skin, a trait r15, Battlefield Promotion (You grow stronger with rank. Increasing your Health, Power, Damage, and Finesse) and a Akúlhun's Brand of Tyrant. Yes, you can use both, don't share CD (cry a bit more is funny and hey! I got one!).
Many Free People use store brands and other store pots or tracks store. And a lot of OP class freep using store &&&& make a big difference.
Originally Posted by ksjock
We could make a list of hugely powerful skills that Freeps have, skills that made this games PvP so extremely unbalanced but I don't think it would help. How could it when his argument boils down to this; creeps have something good that Freeps don't have... QQ.
Be very afraid freeps, my rank 5 reaver has the brand.
His audacity is still r1 but i yesterday i killed like even the best champs on our server.
This brand is really making my reaver OP.
I think i'll quit my warg and my warleader and only play my reaver for now since he's so uber now.
It's totally fine guys. 99% of dedicated creeps are fine with it as long as they get it. It's not even worth your time. You can't prove a point to them.
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