Thread: A solo journey to the level cap - Undefeated or Die

After reading a few threads here over the last few weeks about the Undying title, how far people have gone undefeated, and the fact that no one seems to know if anyone has ever done so or if there may be a hidden title at the end for doing so, I've decided to give it a go. As soon as I post this, I'm going to log on and create my umpteenth Elven Hunter Explorer with one purpose and one purpose only... to make it to cap, solo and undefeated, BUT NOT by playing it safe and doing only grey/green/light-blue content.

I intend to stay, as much as is reasonably possible, within the dark-blue/white/yellow range with an orange thrown into the mix from time to time. I'm going to play smart - think before I leap, consider EVERY encounter a possible defeat, use tactics and strategy in every situation no matter how easy it appears to be, stay geared and buffed properly, and flee when necessary. If he goes down, it's perma-death and all 36 of my other characters will mourn his passing by wearing all black for a month. No matter how familiar I am with content, I'm going to view it as a new experience (since, in essence, it is. If he dies, there is no coming back!) It's a one-shot, do-or-die deal. If he doesn't make it, I'll never try it again.

Now, since I do have 36 other active characters, I won't be devoting all of my playing time to just him, but I do intend to play him a minimum of eight hours a week, more if possible. I'll keep you all posted throughout the journey (I may start a blog about it. Still looking into it).

Even though I'm an old vet here, there's always something new to learn. If anyone has any tips, advise, or just plain old encouragement, I'm all ears.

And so the journey begins...

Originally Posted by Adder

Even though I'm an old vet here, there's always something new to learn. If anyone has any tips, advise, or just plain old encouragement, I'm all ears.

And so the journey begins...

Good luck!

I thought somebody reported attempting it a year or so ago, but I could be mistaken. I don't remember whether he tried the "no guts, no glory" approach you're planning.

Don't forget that it's a bad idea to do attempt all of Book 1 as you're doing this.

Good idea! I was leaning towards something like this with my burg.

My intention was to make it to level 25 at least with out dying - and play perma-death

*I would included all the quests with-in reason (solo and fellows) in breeland including the epic story, all done at or near level.
*All of the deeds in the zone (and perhaps a few in the shire)
*Once I hit level 20 I would start pugging GB and get the armor set by 25

I would go mostly solo - but would join a fellow if it struck me - especially - impromptu encounters where you are in the same area as another player going after the same thing - i often join forces in this situation even if its just a quickie with no real communication or involvement.

I would not avoid any mobs or areas specifically but if the warg didnt show in chetwoods while i was there i wouldnt wait around for him either - in short play as i would if i wasn't seeking the title - smart but daring, cautious but brave.

I hadn't decided on skirms - but i am leading towards skipping them because I have a full agenda already and didnt want to level too fast and not meet my other goals - so nothing past the introduction quests that unlocks them.

In my mind i was going to turn it into a sort of starter leveling guide - and go through each concept and aspect of the early game for the bree-land zone and explain the rep and craft and ah systems - the housing - creating a kin- including tricks like mule and bank toons - what to spend tps on and what not too - when to grind and what to grind for - how to make coin - the whole she-bang but i'm waaaayyy to lazy to ever do something like that so thankfully my burg died at level 19 - lol

Good luck

still - I am kind of inspired by your post and it rekindles my original desire and i might just try again... hmmmmm?

D

I'm also in the process of attempting this on my second character. I'm currently 25 without dying as a Hobbit Minstrel who is a soloer. I'm just going to play as normal, and since I've already hit Mirkwood with a Hunter, I pretty much know what to expect in terms of difficulty for each area.

I wonder if there is any interest in somebody (or group of somebodies) organizing a across server community challenge event?

What would be the rules to consider such a thing?

or is this hyjacking?

D

Good luck on your travel. Regarding my experience grouping is one of the bigger problems. 2 of my undyings died when they first grouped GRD at 34 and Mini at 37. So I decided not to group with the toons going to level cap as undefeated. The biggest problem though is lag and connection issues. I had a Mini die at 30 when I got disconnected just the second I fought a green Orc in the Lonelands and a Guard died at 19 just a few xp before the title when attacking two blue Orcs just before disconnetion. They were both completing deeds. Same happened to my Hunter at level 38 which is now 49 and besides that undefeated. Currently my highest level still undefeated is a lvl 49 Burg which did the Moria intro at 45.
So I avoid grouping and hope for no connection issues. Basicly I do all quests in an area but some of the Epic ones and I pick them up to 4 levels above me. I grind most deeds(always the ones of the equipped traits) to make my toon stronger and have some decent armour and always a critted Weapon on level.
As for Skirmishes my Champ died first at lvl 33 when his bannerguard aggroed all the mobs in the final area in Tuckland wouldn't have happened with a herbalist. Those are all the toons that I tried and still try to get undefeated to level cap.
As my advice to a veteran(which is probably not needed) have a good bow, decide with whom you group and always remember your desperate flight. Regarding the fact that I almost died a few times with my toons due to poisoning and and wounds I always carry some pots even in low level areas. My Burg carries also scrolls and tokens and different types of food. Be extra carefull when you enter an area where you know there might be respawing mobs because another player just came by.
Besides that no new titlw so far and as far as I know the last is lvl 20 undying.
I am pretty confident that you will go to level cap undefeated if you have no connection issues.
PS. Even when your toon dies he does not deserve to go into the black darkness of deletion.

I've made it to level cap without dieing once ... However I have been defeated lots of times

after coming close to dying once and reading the OP i think i might give this a shot. hardy dwarf ready to wreck some orc

It's not so hard. You just take the fun out of the game, don't play instances and reach cap easily.

I think when I leveled my hunter (so he could get the high level reputation recipes) I died 2 or 3 times and I was not even trying to reach cap without dying.

Best of luck

/tips her fancy Shirrif's hat

Good luck on your journey, however it will go.

Fare well!

It's certainly possible, I know kinnies who have done it, though I only got to 54 myself. Good luck

GL, hope your connection is good and your pc don't crash.

I wish you the best of luck and hope that you find the extra zest in your gaming that I found from playing that way.

All of my characters are hardcore, perma-death characters except one that is reserved for grouping with. I know that some people have told me I am stupid for playing that way, but it adds that much more thrill to my gaming when every single battle can mean the difference between progressing further or having to delete and start from scratch. I even delete all equipment and money that the character has when it dies after all, hardcore is hardcore.

I think that the game should have some sort of penalty for dying, whether loss of equipment, money or experience, because as it stands at the moment death in this game is meaningless and I have seen players doing suicide attacks repeatedly to win/kill something, crossing it off their to-do list and playing on cheerfully as if it is normal practice!

Good luck



spoiler alert





and avoid Vol 1 book 9 (i think that's the one in Angmar with the forced defeat)

I was almost ready to start my own inquiry when this post popped up. Thanks to the op. I've been playing for several years on two different accounts. My original has 9 toons, all levels 65-75, most of whom had trouble making it even to the level 20 deed...

At some point I started a second f2p account which is currently under subscription, since I wanted to play through Isengard without needing to grind for the 3495 tp needed or needing to pay cash for it on a 2nd account having already done so on the main account.

In any event, my toons are on Elendilmir, and I have a Hobbit Warden named Hewer who is currently level 74.4, and is playing through the Pit of Iron. Never defeated, never died. Most of the time he's solo, some of the time duo with a kinmate, and almost always playing quests blue-white-yellow and even orange. He has fastidiously avoided known auto-die epics in Volume I, and almost died in one of the map table instances at Grimbold's Camp. Good old Hobbit Stealth. Rarely used, but key in this case. *whew*. I anticipate being able to finish up level 75 successfully, then likely to park this guy until the level cap is raised again.

Those of you on Elendilmir, if ye see a little guy running around in Sea Blue armor with Spear/Javelin, give me a High Five.

Best Wishes to the others trying the same.

p.s. Arlecchino79 is correct. My old Sony VAIO crashed all the time and took several characters' attempts with it. Hewer has my new top o' the line Dell to thank for this trip....

Having already got all class's to cap with Mirkwood (65), and knowing all the quest hubs, i decided to give this a go and managed to get a Hobbit warden to Level Cap (65) at the time. Have since got it to 75 without dying and have managed since to get a hunter to 75 without dying, currently working on a burglar.
I just level the way i would have normally, not doing skirmishes unless they are part of book. Only handing in tasks if they give me rep for a faction, and generally not doing any Green Quests unless i have them in my log already and have leveled before handing them in.
I do check router reset time before questing with an Undead, but have DC'd a few times in areas but have been lucky so far.
Sad I know,

It's not worth the effort to be honest as I myself tried that. I got to level 35 without dying once, then BAM right in the middle of a fight my screen froze for about 10 seconds or so and i could not move or fight. The 2 mobs that were attacking me however did not have this problem and kep hitting me. 2 seconds after i died the screen freeze went and so did my undying feat. So believe me it is nor worth it cos this game freezes far too much and sooner or later it will happen during a fight and you will die just like I did.

Originally Posted by Dwarendele

I wonder if there is any interest in somebody (or group of somebodies) organizing a across server community challenge event?

What would be the rules to consider such a thing?

or is this hyjacking?

D

I have gone to 65 when it was the level cap without dying

http://www.rguilds.guildportal.com/M...5-alive/129518

shortly after we had a 0-65 and still alive contest in kin, it is a significant investment of time for that many people and hard to keep motivated.

good luck if you plan to try a contest

I may try the 85 in RoR

Originally Posted by SPARTIOTIS

It's not worth the effort to be honest as I myself tried that. I got to level 35 without dying once, then BAM right in the middle of a fight my screen froze for about 10 seconds or so and i could not move or fight. The 2 mobs that were attacking me however did not have this problem and kep hitting me. 2 seconds after i died the screen freeze went and so did my undying feat. So believe me it is nor worth it cos this game freezes far too much and sooner or later it will happen during a fight and you will die just like I did.

This happens to me annoyingly often, mostly with dropped connections. There is no reason that a fully-geared fully-equipped level 28 character should die to a single level 20 mob, yet I've logged back in at the rez circle many a time :P

Hi, interesting and appealing!

How will you do with the Epic story content? Skip it entirely or run it when seriously over the given level?

My main issue with the Epics always was the bits where you were supposed to get mock-defeated. Isn't it Sambrog nearly at the beginning of Vol1 where it's very easy to die repeatedly in anticipation of the deus ex machina from Bombadill? And Gates of Carn Dum I also always found unnervingly tough on-level, as were many other parts of the epics.

For a true challenge, run this on a new server.
Alt server: start with zero marks medallions and seals and cash but keep whatever convenience upgrades you have: traits, bags, cash cap, swift travel, shared storage and so on. Still, you'll be able to benefit from whatever incidental TP you happen to make.
However it means that you'll need to work for vault upgrade cash (but you will keep auction bonus slots unlocked account-wide over all servers so this could be easy) and you will not have the benefit of instant fresh barters from skirmish vendors.

(Alternatively, give yourself a different challenge, like gaining all the traits you can from gaming content or the like - make up your own meta-deeds.)

Originally Posted by Adder

if there may be a hidden title at the end for doing so,

There are no non-defeated titles after level 20.

I think you've set yourself a wonderful challenge! It's intriguing! I might do something similar with my Hobbit Guardian whom I'm using for my journal. It will be fun. Granted, up until now she's only level 15, but still undefeated.

Have fun!

Originally Posted by Calta

and avoid Vol 1 book 9 (i think that's the one in Angmar with the forced defeat)

There is another one in Moria...

Thanks for all of the input! I was going to reply to many of you but had so many quotes it would have been ridiculously long, so I'll address this generically while commenting on a few specific posts below that...

• Epic Quest line - I'm planning on doing them BUT above level for the ones marked as 'small fellowship'. I'm still not decided on the sections with the forced death. After all, my goal is to reach level cap undefeated by my own ineptitude or mistakes. A programmed death that must be experienced to continue the quest line doesn't reflect on my abilities at all.
  • A question here - Do the forced deaths cost you armor repairs equivalent to being defeated in combat, or is it treated the same as a death due to misfortune such as falling off a cliff? I never really took notice.
• Skirmishes - I haven't decided if I'll use them or not. I don't much care for them personally and rarely do them anyway but, I may throw a few in to keep it interesting. Just not sure yet.
• Lag/Connection Issues - I'm well aware of these issues as is evidenced by my many posts in those 'official' threads as well as my first ever and only rant thread that disappeared rather quickly. I'm just going to have to play it as it goes. If lag is horrendous or starts acting up in a new or difficult area, I'll just have to back off and wait it out, trying another day. Even at that though, it is so unpredictable at times that I may very well succumb to it. If it happens, I'll end it there.
• Grouping - This is out of the question. As the title says and I stated in my OP - SOLO. No pugs, no friend fellowships, no kin help (only 1 of my 37 characters is currently in a Kinship anyway).
• Titles - As some of you have pointed-out, I realize that there are no DOCUMENTED titles after the level 20 undefeated deed title, Undying. What I was referring to is the possibility of an UNDOCUMENTED title for reaching cap undefeated. Up until this thread, I have never seen anyone state that they had reached cap undefeated even though I've asked numerous times. Some who have posted here have indicated that they or someone they know has indeed done so. Apparently there is none, at least none for the way in which cap was reached. Perhaps there is some factor that needs to be involved - completing all deeds, completing the Epic line, completing all quests or all quests from your starting area on up (although that would have you doing a LOT of grey, green, and light-blue content), or something along those lines. There have been many undocumented titles and rewards discovered in this game. There may well be one there yet to be unlocked.

Originally Posted by Neumi

It's not so hard. You just take the fun out of the game, don't play instances and reach cap easily.

I think when I leveled my hunter (so he could get the high level reputation recipes) I died 2 or 3 times and I was not even trying to reach cap without dying.

But you didn't do it did you. How is this taking the fun out of the game? If anything, it's putting it back into a dumbed-down, too easy version of what this game used to be and what the old games were like.

Originally Posted by Macroscian

Hi, interesting and appealing!

How will you do with the Epic story content? Skip it entirely or run it when seriously over the given level?

My main issue with the Epics always was the bits where you were supposed to get mock-defeated. Isn't it Sambrog nearly at the beginning of Vol1 where it's very easy to die repeatedly in anticipation of the deus ex machina from Bombadill? And Gates of Carn Dum I also always found unnervingly tough on-level, as were many other parts of the epics.

For a true challenge, run this on a new server.
Alt server: start with zero marks medallions and seals and cash but keep whatever convenience upgrades you have: traits, bags, cash cap, swift travel, shared storage and so on. Still, you'll be able to benefit from whatever incidental TP you happen to make.
However it means that you'll need to work for vault upgrade cash (but you will keep auction bonus slots unlocked account-wide over all servers so this could be easy) and you will not have the benefit of instant fresh barters from skirmish vendors.

(Alternatively, give yourself a different challenge, like gaining all the traits you can from gaming content or the like - make up your own meta-deeds.)

Green - To be honest, after creating the character on my main, most used, and richest server last night (even purchased my 12th character slot to do it - on sale ), I considered making it more challenging by using one of my poorer servers. Had not considered a completely new server though. I have decided to take on that challenge but with a twist... I'm going to run two characters - The one I created last night with the advantage of help from the other characters for crafting and such, and one on a new server, alone and totally dependant on himself. I'm going to attempt to give both equal time by parking the characters on my two least played servers for the time being. That should allow me an average of 6 to 8 hours each per week minimum.

Blue - Being a Lifetime/Founder with all expansions purchased (collector/legendary, etc) as well as some bonuses from betas, I have quite a bit to start regardless if I start fresh on a new server or not (doing both as I stated), and I have shared storage maxed out (and wardrobe/cosmetic slots) so I start with a bit of advantage no matter what I do. I do intend to use them.

Yellow - I do plan on gaining all traits on my way, from content, just as I do now and have always done. I don't purchase anything from the store except account-wide items like shared space, wardrobe, character slots, wallet, and a few cosmetics, and occasionally, a milestone. I did pick up a few stat increases for a few characters in my first week back after an extended break before F2P was launched, then decided that I didn't like that (P2W in my book). Haven't done so since and don't intend to in the future.

Originally Posted by Susuwatari

Originally Posted by SPARTIOTIS
It's not worth the effort to be honest as I myself tried that. I got to level 35 without dying once, then BAM right in the middle of a fight my screen froze for about 10 seconds or so and i could not move or fight. The 2 mobs that were attacking me however did not have this problem and kep hitting me. 2 seconds after i died the screen freeze went and so did my undying feat. So believe me it is nor worth it cos this game freezes far too much and sooner or later it will happen during a fight and you will die just like I did.

This happens to me annoyingly often, mostly with dropped connections. There is no reason that a fully-geared fully-equipped level 28 character should die to a single level 20 mob, yet I've logged back in at the rez circle many a time :P

Yup. Has happened to me one more than one occasion. Lost the undying title by a green wolf as well as other occurrences equally ridiculous and frustrating. If it happens, it happens. Nothing we can do on our ends is gonna remedy the situation. C'est la vie.

__________________________

Dang! This still turned into a loooong post.

Originally Posted by Adder

A question here - Do the forced deaths cost you armor repairs equivalent to being defeated in combat, or is it treated the same as a death due to misfortune such as falling off a cliff? I never really took notice.

It's considered to be death by misadventure, and there are no repair costs.

My warden is currently Level 58, and his only "death" thus far has been the forced death in the Volume I epic book.

It was interesting that he was killed even though his morale didn't go down to zero. I used Never Surrender because I knew what was coming, and when "killed," his morale went down to 1--not zero. But dead is still dead. I wish I'd remembered to take a screen shot.

Forget the naysayers who try to tell you how to have fun. I'm having a good time trying this as well. Good luck!

A guy in our kin took an alt to 75 without being defeated, never grouping, skipping any forced defeat situations. It's certainly not hard.

He was disappointed though, as all he had gained was getting to 75 without enjoying grouping, and avoiding anything that could lead to a defeat.

(Don't expect recognition from your peers either, they'll just be annoyed that you turned down sharing adventures with them along the way.)

It's kind of like driving a car without ever exposing yourself to a speeding ticket, or only eating bread and water, why eliminate the excitement, thrill and risk?

Obviously some set their own goals and enjoy that, if so, more power to you, but don't set yourself up for failed expectations at the end please, as that's no fun. ;-)



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

I think that many people are missing the point of the thread - or maybe i am - It sounded to me like he was not going to pike to level cap - that the intention was to do grouping and quests that are difficult - ok - forced defeats are one thing - but they are rare so no biggy if you skip those few quests - unfortunately that may mean skipping the epics. so maybe - just maybe a forced defeat is acceptable - as pointed out anyone can pike and avoid defeat till cap - but to level and group and do the main story arc quests at level with out dying is a-whole-nother thing.

And im sure that many people will claim that they know a guy who has done this or that they have 3 alts that did this before breakfast yesterday - and Im not doubting them - however claims like this are more impressive with proof.

To state publicly your intentions before hand and possibly blog and update progress as it happens while leaving your quest history view-able by anyone on mylotro to see is perhaps more accountable and admirable.

I would think that after the 20 title - that even a defeat is ok as long as you dont retreat - no rez circles - and in grouping as long as you were rezzed in the quest and not forced to retreat it is still ok - but maybe not - Im just thinking of a way to do it that will allow for forced defeats and a reasonable shot at doing challenging content in groups.

in the end its the ops call and its really only for his amusement and perhaps a little entertaining to lurkers - so go for it buddy.

keep us posted

D

edit - i guess i missed the post where you explained no grouping - so dis regard my points where i mentioned grouping - but honestly - if you avoid grouping - its kind of piking - just my opinion and is meant in no way to belittle or undermine your goals.

Originally Posted by Dwarendele

edit - i guess i missed the post where you explained no grouping - so dis regard my points where i mentioned grouping - but honestly - if you avoid grouping - its kind of piking - just my opinion and is meant in no way to belittle or undermine your goals.

What exactly is piking? I only play solo, so am I automatically piking by just playing by myself as always?

Originally Posted by LethalLethality

What exactly is piking? I only play solo, so am I automatically piking by just playing by myself as always?

Sorry - piking or to pike is a term used in MMOs (mainly in DDO from what ive seen) that is used to describe someone that is leeching XP or loot from a quest, without contributing to the quest or group. or more broadly someone who never puts themselves in any danger and levels by avoiding challenges that can kill you - in the extreme there has been games that has user generated content through an editor - and some people have level farms where you enter a door -at level one - walk in - and level right up to cap - and walk out the door.

In DDO its pretty common for gulde mates (their version of kinsman) to join a group that their guldies are doing and pike at the entrance as monsters dont generally respawn and go afk while the rest of the party does the work and the piker gets the same xp as the rest of the party.

So in this case i mean piking to be avoiding at level content and playing it incredibly safe - like never leaving the shire.

D

so soloing and doing all the work is by definition not piking - unless you do low level quests at an incredibly higher level.

I see... then no, I'm not piking, as I'm getting close to death on numerous occasions here in the Lone Lands. Enemies in the quests I have at lvl 26 are borderline too dangerous, such as the Shornbeard Dourhands or the White Hand goblins in Minas Eriol, and they're two levels under me. >.<

ive wanted to see how far i can get nekkid! or maybe just with starter gear.

Originally Posted by Neumi

It's not so hard. You just take the fun out of the game, don't play instances and reach cap easily.

I think when I leveled my hunter (so he could get the high level reputation recipes) I died 2 or 3 times and I was not even trying to reach cap without dying.

I have to disagree about "taking the fun out of the game". I've had a lot of fun trying to get my burglar to cap without defeat. I didn't constantly play it safe. I still took on some orange quests and enemies and still tried some instances. With six active characters, there are still plenty of others to do instances and raids. Nothing wrong with taking one or two and doing something different, right? It's just another way to play the game.

I didn't quite make it, by the way. Got to 61, then wading in the Anduin instakilled my burglar, about a bar from 62. He's still never had a combat defeat, and he's about halfway through 64 now. Was fighting Dragon Clan in Trum Dreng while playing the other night, and they're orange, so I'm not sticking with green and grey quests by any means. If nothing else, it's a point of personal pride to have made it that far without combat defeat.

I'm not sure it can be done with the first character though. You learn what to try and what to avoid through experience. The burglar is my fourth character to get that far, with the first three capped. And admittedly, only his HIde in Plain Sight skill has saved him on several occasions, including some instances where I stuck his neck out a bit too far!

Originally Posted by SapienChavez

ive wanted to see how far i can get nekkid! or maybe just with starter gear.

Are you kidding? I easily leveled to 20 nekkid. The monsters all took one look at me and then jumped off the nearest cliff to die by misadventure.

I had heard that mobs in this game are a lot less tough than they used to be, but this was my first tangible proof.

Originally Posted by Dwarendele

Sorry - piking or to pike is a term used in MMOs (mainly in DDO from what ive seen) that is used to describe someone that is leeching XP or loot from a quest, without contributing to the quest or group. or more broadly someone who never puts themselves in any danger and levels by avoiding challenges that can kill you - in the extreme there has been games that has user generated content through an editor - and some people have level farms where you enter a door -at level one - walk in - and level right up to cap - and walk out the door.

In DDO its pretty common for gulde mates (their version of kinsman) to join a group that their guldies are doing and pike at the entrance as monsters dont generally respawn and go afk while the rest of the party does the work and the piker gets the same xp as the rest of the party.

So in this case i mean piking to be avoiding at level content and playing it incredibly safe - like never leaving the shire.

D

so soloing and doing all the work is by definition not piking - unless you do low level quests at an incredibly higher level.

Definitely not piking. As I said, I plan on staying on level or even below as often as possible - dark-blue, white, yellow, and orange when I'm looking for that extra 'punch'. I don't plan on backing away from challenging content, but instead of shooting headlong into it without considering defeat as happens too often when that defeat essentially means nothing, I'm going to plan it, look for the proper strategy and the best way to approach the challenge in order to win the first time into it, knowing that should I fail, that's it. Lights out. Adios Amigos. I personally dislike piking, or power-leveling which is basically the same thing. And I do plan on doing the Epic Quest line. The forced deaths are programmed misadventures and I won't count them as a defeat.

EDIT - BTW, Thanks for the tip on opening the characters for public view on My.LOTRO.com. I never even thought about that. That'll be a nice touch.
____________________________

One more thing... Now I may have to do this with a third character - a nekkid dwarf. The only question, male or female? o.O

An update (of sorts) - I have one character created and am going to create the second one on a new server tonight. Was going to start them both today but the downtime and the subsequent commotion over the dummies kinda sidetracked me. I think I'll see about setting up a blog tomorrow and then get both characters started either tomorrow night or Wednesday. I'll report my progress at certain milestones like level 15, 20, finished a major quest line or area, completed a chapter or volume, etc. When things are slow, I'll update every few days here and in the upcoming blog.

A side note here - been wanting to start an LOTRO blog for awhile now, just never seemed to get around to doing it. I had one while I played EVE and really enjoyed writing it. This will get me started on that too, so another reason for doing this.

Originally Posted by Dwarendele

...however claims like this are more impressive with proof.

Well, avoiding things is hardly impressive, but just view folks who have provided screenshots of the tutorial pop-up explaining defeat to them after they got to 75.

The one I referenced was shared privately on Google+, so not my place.

...more accountable and admirable.

This is my own opinion, but what is to be admired in limiting oneself? I personally admire behaviors that push one to excel, break through boundaries, encourage risk, not do things well within their means.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by RJFerret

Well, avoiding things is hardly impressive, but just view folks who have provided screenshots of the tutorial pop-up explaining defeat to them after they got to 75.

The one I referenced was shared privately on Google+, so not my place.



This is my own opinion, but what is to be admired in limiting oneself? I personally admire behaviors that push one to excel, break through boundaries, encourage risk, not do things well within their means.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

I guess you didnt read the entire thread and just cut and snipped quotes out of context to make your point - because I was advocating that he didnt pike or avoid grouping or harder content - and so was the op with the exception of grouping - which is his call - but thanks for playing.

D