Thread: Cry of Vengeance upgrade?

Re-reading the Cry of Vengeance skill (http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Cry_of_Vengeance) and the buffs as displayed are seriously underwhelming.

Does anyone know if they scale?

If not, then perhaps it's an option for an 'improved skill' on the way from here to 85 (or later)?

Presently I don't use Cry of Vengeance outside of a raid situation. Scaling the buffs might turn it into a more versatile skill, tempting cappies to choose between triggering it for the buffs or saving it for the in-combat rez?

Perhaps something like:
Updated skill becomes 'Shout of Vigor':
Range <equivalent to current banner range> (currently 15m)
Target revives with 30% morale (currently 20%)
Target revives with 0% power (currently 15%)
Effects applied to the Fellowship within <equivalent to current banner range> meters:
+<scales with level, i.e., +85 at level 85> Might, Agility, Vitality, Will & Fate (currently only +10)
-5% Attack Duration (currently -4%)
+500 Armour Value (currently +234)
Duration: 30s (currently 20s)
Cooldown: 20 minutes (currently 30 minutes)

The main increase is obviously to the +stats, functioning like a second IDOME (or first where captains have unslotted the trait).

Over-powered, under-powered, or just meh (un-worthy of the Dev's attentions)?

The 30 minute cooldown for a really, REALLY bad rez is just soooo underwhelming.

Um. These are the stats at 75 (BoN not traited).



Also, it's only usable after a fellow dies.

Apparently, in Ye Olden Tymes, the skill only provided the buff. The rez was added later. 105 to all stats, extra armour, and reduced attack duration is actually a pretty nice buff to apply on the whole fellowship.

The only things I don't like about the skill are the short distance on the rez and the fact that the cooldown can't be reduced in any way.

Yeah, if you don't trait this res, it's pretty unuseable. Even traited the CD is way too long, probably could use some CD reduction.

Originally Posted by furtim

Apparently, in Ye Olden Tymes, the skill only provided the buff. The rez was added later. 105 to all stats, extra armour, and reduced attack duration is actually a pretty nice buff to apply on the whole fellowship.

The only things I don't like about the skill are the short distance on the rez and the fact that the cooldown can't be reduced in any way.

The stats are good, but overall it's a terrible buff, since it only lasts for 20 seconds.

This skill's dumb. Tying a buff to the death of a party member is dumb.

The res. is okay but the 30m cd has yet to be explained.

Originally Posted by Nakiami

Um. These are the stats at 75 (BoN not traited).

Thx Nakiami, I couldn't log in to check when I mused on this =/

Originally Posted by Nakiami

Also, it's only usable after a fellow dies.

/facedesk as that obviously negates any 'choice' options; can't believe I forgot that, lol

It's a pretty nice skill IMO, the only other 'instant' rez is the RKs, and that has to be used before the actual death. My main complaint with it, like many others have, is the CD. I'm not sure why it's not affected by gear, LIs, or the trait. Honestly, if any of those three dropped the cooldown it'd be a much nicer skill.

That being said, this is still my raid group's rez of choice for ToO, since we're all usually grouped up pretty well and it doesn't require anyone to stop what they're doing (not to mention the CD isn't much of a factor in case of a wipe, since all skills reset on boss fights).

I'd be fine with it if the cooldown was affected by Blood of Numenor and the legacy that gives a shorter cooldown to Escape from Darkness.

Yes this move needs to be buffed considerably.

I've been calling for our in-combat raise abilites to be strengthed for quite some time now on these forums.

They either need to have their cool-downs drastically lowered or have them reset after ANY combat ends. One or the other - because their current forms just don't do it for me.

Has anyone else heard of Cry of Vengeance rez being bugged? I think twice now someone has taken my rez and it has put them at the start of the instance instead of by my side (and yes I was alive the entire time). Happened in Foundry and Draigoch I think. I need to remember to /bug it if it happens again, but my kin says it's been happening for a while now.

Originally Posted by toom87

Has anyone else heard of Cry of Vengeance rez being bugged? I think twice now someone has taken my rez and it has put them at the start of the instance instead of by my side (and yes I was alive the entire time). Happened in Foundry and Draigoch I think. I need to remember to /bug it if it happens again, but my kin says it's been happening for a while now.

Don't be in the air when you hit it.

Doh. I was using it to rez dead people the other night in Acid and they kept appearing somewhere else. How lame. This 20 second timer has to go.

Originally Posted by gherak

Doh. I was using it to rez dead people the other night in Acid and they kept appearing somewhere else. How lame. This 20 second timer has to go.

I agree. The 20 second timer to use it is &&&&&&&&.

its the best buff ive seen in any video game. ever.

but the cost is HUGE... sumbody gots ta die! ...and it only lasts like 15-20s

so, its been relegated to, "our bad rezz."

kinda sad

Originally Posted by SapienChavez

so, its been relegated to, "our bad rezz."

Yep, our kin calls it the "dirty rez" because of how low the base morale/power is.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Yes this move needs to be buffed considerably.

I've been calling for our in-combat raise abilites to be strengthed for quite some time now on these forums.

They either need to have their cool-downs drastically lowered or have them reset after ANY combat ends. One or the other - because their current forms just don't do it for me.

In combat rezes have high CD for a reason. Short in-combat rezes would change the whole instances mechanics, you need to realize it.

And it's already possible to have a 2m30 (good) rez. Just keep cry for emergencies.

Originally Posted by toom87

Has anyone else heard of Cry of Vengeance rez being bugged? I think twice now someone has taken my rez and it has put them at the start of the instance instead of by my side (and yes I was alive the entire time). Happened in Foundry and Draigoch I think. I need to remember to /bug it if it happens again, but my kin says it's been happening for a while now.

I'm pretty sure it happens when you use the skill while in the air or any kind of invalid spot for the rezzee to spawn at. Same thing happens with the Warleader rez in the moors.

The skill is useless without the trait for raiding situations. With the trait it's ok (if only so the person doesn't die again immediately), but I have better options to trait for death prevention anyway. I would much rather separate the skill into a rez and a separate short term buff.

Originally Posted by Leonide

In combat rezes have high CD for a reason. Short in-combat rezes would change the whole instances mechanics, you need to realize it.

And it's already possible to have a 2m30 (good) rez. Just keep cry for emergencies.

I strongly disagree. They already reset after raid boss encounters anyways. So there is absolutely no legitimate reason in my mind why this isn't the case everywhere - nor do I understand how it would affect instance mechanics negatively.

So I stand firmly by what I said. Either the cool downs need to reset after combat, or the cool-downs need to be drastically lowered. One or the other.

Originally Posted by Beastnas

The skill is useless without the trait for raiding situations. With the trait it's ok (if only so the person doesn't die again immediately), but I have better options to trait for death prevention anyway. .

I'm the same way. I have a really hard time justifying to myself giving up a trait spot for such a limited circumstance as when a player dies. I rather use something that has more consistent value.

Originally Posted by Othniel

I'd be fine with it if the cooldown was affected by Blood of Numenor and the legacy that gives a shorter cooldown to Escape from Darkness.

That would be reasonable, actually, and fits with how BoN improves it and Escape From Darkness.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I strongly disagree. They already reset after raid boss encounters anyways. So there is absolutely no legitimate reason in my mind why this isn't the case everywhere - nor do I understand how it would affect instance mechanics negatively.

So I stand firmly by what I said. Either the cool downs need to reset after combat, or the cool-downs need to be drastically lowered. One or the other.

End-game bosses are one thing. They are particular fights. And ToO boses were designed with THAT in mind.
Turbine will not make «blowing rezes like candy» a viable figthing strategy, you can't forget that. CD are CDs for a reason.

And I'm strongly against 2m30 rezzes. It just creates bad captains IMHO.
Now, if you say: improve the cappy rezzing skills and fellowship death responses: i'm 1000% for. Reducing rezzes CDs is a TERRIBLE idea.

Originally Posted by Leonide

End-game bosses are one thing. They are particular fights. And ToO boses were designed with THAT in mind.
Turbine will not make «blowing rezes like candy» a viable figthing strategy, you can't forget that. CD are CDs for a reason.

And I'm strongly against 2m30 rezzes. It just creates bad captains IMHO.
Now, if you say: improve the cappy rezzing skills and fellowship death responses: i'm 1000% for. Reducing rezzes CDs is a TERRIBLE idea.

I never said make the CDs so short that you can "blow through them like candy". That's unreasonable.

And like I said, I would be fine with simply making them reset when out of combat. But I strongly believe Captains should have these abilities available to them during combat. If it's fine that they reset for raid boss encoutners, then they should reset for other encounters too. That wouldn't imbalance the game or negatively impact instance mechanics in any way I can think of.

Originally Posted by Leonide

Reducing rezzes CDs is a TERRIBLE idea.

EfD's effective cooldown is 10m with an emblem swap + trait.

For some reason CoV has a 30m cooldown and nothing that effects it. it should really be dropped to a 20m cooldown; Frankly i'd prefer 10 minutes.

10 minutes is still too long... But would be easier to manage for the dev's, I suppose... And we do have 2 res's.

Hypothetically you are wiping on a non-raid boss in a 6man, or raid-trash. It takes about 5 minutes per wipe if your group is reasonably quick and contains very few smokers. That means if I use CoV, I have to go through 5 more wipes before it's back off cooldown. That's a pretty ridiculous timeframe and I don't understand the justification for it. It turns CoV into more of a 'raid-only' res.

Conversely EfD is a better res (more m/p), which has a small induction, but also never respawns people at the beginning of an instance; It has no buff associated with it, but also never misses because a guy is out of range. And EfD doesn't go on cooldown if you use it on a guy who has already been res'd. AND you can drop the cooldown to 10m with very little investment. There are ways to drop it even further, but I won't mention them for the moment.

I just don't understand. What is the point of having it on a 30m cd? Maybe at one point this made sense when you could reset the res. with Time Of Need, and it would res two people. But it doesn't anymore.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

And like I said, I would be fine with simply making them reset when out of combat. But I strongly believe Captains should have these abilities available to them during combat. If it's fine that they reset for raid boss encoutners, then they should reset for other encounters too. That wouldn't imbalance the game or negatively impact instance mechanics in any way I can think of.

Long story short: We need a dedicate out of combat rez.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Long story short: We need a dedicate out of combat rez.

Well, why not, indeed.
In-combat rez is the ultimate CD in MMOs. Some fights like Gortheron or Saruman were not designed for 2m30 rezzes; and I do enjoy those long fights. If you have -5min CD rezzes, you make the devs think again before designing good bosses fights likes Gorthy or Saruman and youll get dull DPS fights.

But of course you can have a different opinion, i'm just exposing mine.

Originally Posted by Leonide

Well, why not, indeed.
In-combat rez is the ultimate CD in MMOs. Some fights like Gortheron or Saruman were not designed for 2m30 rezzes; and I do enjoy those long fights. If you have -5min CD rezzes, you make the devs think again before designing good bosses fights likes Gorthy or Saruman and youll get dull DPS fights.

But of course you can have a different opinion, i'm just exposing mine.

Big difference from having trivial cooldown on the in combat rezzes, and then having a dedicated out of combat rez. I want the latter - NOT the former.

What I assume Jeremi was asking for was a way to use an in combat rez as an out of combat one.

This is what I'm saying:

Escape from Darkness = 30 minute cooldown.
Cry of Veangence = 30 minute cool down.

30 minutes is an unacceptably long cool down IMHO. Especially when you consider the fact that in-combat raises are most useful when learning new content (which probably means wiping and re-entering combat a lot). And in situations like those, only being able to raise once every half hour just isn't gong to cut it. A fact even the game seems to recognize, as they purposely reset these abilities after raid boss encounters.

And to point out the obvious just in case it is brought up - yes I know the cool down can be reduced on Escape from Darkness using traits and legacies. But a Captain shouldn't be forced to give up a trait slot and level up a legacy just so they can have one of their abilities available to them on a reasonable and consistent basis in my opinion.

That's why I strongly believe the cool-downs on these abilities should reset after combat. It would make them more dependable - as a Captain could actually rely on having them available. And this solution would also give us the added fix of being able to raise people when out of combat without having to effectively "waste" our cool down - which is just lame and another bad side-effect of these ridiculous cool downs.

Originally Posted by TheBigMenace

Yeah, if you don't trait this res, it's pretty unuseable. Even traited the CD is way too long, probably could use some CD reduction.

I disagree, I find it very helpful when in the moors. Can change the course of the battle. Just saying.... i would like to see the CD reduced, and the range extended. I cant tell you how many times one of my fellows died, but I was too far away and the skill never became available.... kinda dumb.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Long story short: We need a dedicate out of combat rez.

I disagree with this too. RK, Minnis, and LMs all have out of combat rezzes. In most group makeups, you will at least have one of these three in your party. I would like to see cappy rezzes reset after combat, but that would negatively impact PVmP, cappies would become way OP due to constant rezzing and buffing with CoV. I believe an acceptable solution would be to reduce CD (Without having to trait), I would also like to see the induction decreased too. I hate it when trying to rez and you are being attacked by tons of mobs, knocking down your rez. Sucks.... anyways thats my 1.5 cents.

Originally Posted by aadaboy19

I disagree with this too. RK, Minnis, and LMs all have out of combat rezzes. In most group makeups, you will at least have one of these three in your party. I would like to see cappy rezzes reset after combat, but that would negatively impact PVmP, cappies would become way OP due to constant rezzing and buffing with CoV. I believe an acceptable solution would be to reduce CD (Without having to trait), I would also like to see the induction decreased too. I hate it when trying to rez and you are being attacked by tons of mobs, knocking down your rez. Sucks.... anyways thats my 1.5 cents.

Aadaboy, all they would have to do is make them reset only for PvE. They already make them reset for just raid boss encounters. So it wouldn't be nothing new - and woudn't affect PvmP in any way if they did it that way.

And I couldn't count for you the number of times I've been in a group without those classes you name. A lot of Captains play healer for 3 and 6 man content. And our lack of a out-of-combat raise without burning a long-&&& cooldown is just obnoxious at times, and forces players to have to trek the dungeon back. It's a needless annoyance in my opinion.

I do agree with you about shortening the induction though, and I should have mentioned that. I totally agree there is nothing on this game more annoying then trying to raise someone while being attacked.

Originally Posted by aadaboy19

I disagree with this too. RK, Minnis, and LMs all have out of combat rezzes. In most group makeups, you will at least have one of these three in your party.

Except healing 3man's. There's no reasonable expectation a main-healing class will be along. We have the lucky privilege of telling someone they better start walking if they die. Also what possible balance reasons are there for not giving us an ooc res?

every class should have an out of combat ress.

with all they are staling from Star Wars, might as well take this one too!

in that game, healing classes have no CD on thiers, nonhealers have a 30m CD.

Originally Posted by SapienChavez

every class should have an out of combat ress.

with all they are staling from Star Wars, might as well take this one too!

in that game, healing classes have no CD on thiers, nonhealers have a 30m CD.

I tend to agree with you on this. I don't see what value having to run back in through an empty instance after a wipe brings to a game.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I tend to agree with you on this. I don't see what value having to run back in through an empty instance after a wipe brings to a game.

Easy: An excuse to go play another!