Thread: Modify the 'Undying', 'Undefeated' titles/deeds!!

See I am more of a smart aleck

My conversation would have gone more like this

Person 1: Hey, can I join your group?
Person 2: Sure, but do you have the 'Undying' title?
Person 1: Yep, sure do
Person 2: /invite Person 1
/group ports to instance
Person 1:/Fellowship Oh I forgot to ask you leader - do you have a Prized Pie? /whips out Prized Pie
Person 2: /Fellowship Of course not!
Person 1: /Fellowship Oh, sorry I can't group with you then
/Person 1 leaves the fellowship

This still amazes me that someone would use a title to determine if someone is group worthy, one of my characters lost their chance at level 19 due to a server crash.

I am wondering if all these people that are doing this aren't just one person and their alts.

All that title means is they ran away when it gets hard, do you Want to team with them? /ignore add *name, wish it was account wide

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

I agree totally. I hate that deed, I really and honestly do.

Then ignore it entirely? Just because you don't like it, it's not a valid reason to remove it from the game when plenty of others enjoy it.

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I too have never heard of this happening. It's not a serious problem and not one that's going to 'tear the community apart'. Extremist much? If someone is really that picky as to who is in their group and is going to rely on silly stuff to filter people, then that person is not worth grouping with. Seriously, just move on.

It may well be, that the real reason was a totally different one, and this 'excuse' was just used to get Op out of their group. As for what reasons, i let everyone make a guess.

My main character and my Hunter don't have Undying title...

First time I died with my main was becouse me and my friend found a nice waterfall near Celondim and decided to take a Dive from it. Well there was the end for my Undying Title, also I didn't know about the title so I was pretty careless it's just a game.

On my burglar I got to level 19 and a bugged spider in Lone-Lands made me pull the whole area, got rooted and I didn't have HiPs.

For the rest of my character I think I have the title and I have been aiming to get it, means I have been extra carefull.

Having the Title "The Red" or meta titles from doing all deeds in a raid and stuff is much more worth than a lousy Undying title. Anyway in my opinion titles are just for fun not something to judge players from, there will always be yerks out there even if you get rid of the title from the game there will always be something else.

So all in all I am happy with the undying deed as it is.

The Unwise title is so much better anyway, and any one can get that one

The Undying Title is so easy to get nowaday compared to 5 years ago you can get it while asleep. Turbine has bent over backwards to make the first 20 level possible in a matter of hrs for hardcore players. I have been playing since beta on Brandywine and not once have i been denied entry to a group because i didnt have undying on a toon. And before you ask i just recently made a new toon and already she is 65 and not once have I been asked although she does have it.

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I know this has been written more times in this thread, but I have NEVER seen anytning like this on the server I play on (Snowbourn EU). My best guess is that it's a few rotten apples suffering from severe "WoW achievement illness" or somehow think that they can use titles as an equivalent to GearScore or what that stupid addon was called.

Undying was NEVER hard to get - not at launch and not now. It's all about playing "smart" until the deed is in the house. I have "Undying" on both my Burglars. I think I got the first title 2 days after launch by just doing solo content, lower level quests, no FS and just playing it safe. I'm by no means a overly skilled player, I'm better than lots of players and far worse than lots of players

I think it's a fun title, but it tells NOTHING about my skills. I have severe deed OCD though so I might delete my toon if getting defeated before getting the deed. But that's only me being.... well weird...

Personally I would never join even the most imba fellowship if they asked me to flash "Undying", even though I have it.

I'm not really interested in Turbine redesigning it, but if there was no other choice it should follow the expansions:

L50 undefeated deed
L60 --
L65 --
L75 --
L85 --

But then again, whats next then? Server first L?? deeds and other useless stuff? Let the other games keep that. They tell nothing about skills, only amount of time invested

Z.

Enjoyed reading the thread and had to laugh now and then.

I mean, damn it is a title and not even a real deed. What do you get for the deed? The title. You dont even improve your character by that.
I usually complete all deeds I have in my book. That means when starting an elf, I finish the first quests in Celondim with level 10, 11 or even 12. You know the first area when killing wolves and gathering wood. I kill all 90 wolves to get the first deed which gives you not only the wolves-slayer-title, but also 15 turbine points and that trait (which often doesnt even matter as my class probably doesnt need AGI/MIGHT or whatever it gives).

Since a good time, I don't know which update it was, probably any, leveling up became more than easy (though probably I could also blame me not being new anymore, I tend to use some time for new games to become "better"). Getting the title isn't a problem anymore, and wasn't even back when LotRO started.
I also got it on most of my characters but not on those where I die by stupid mistakes, like riding near a cliff or just lagging when engaging a boss or similar situations.

Not that I would really care about the title.

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Those guys probably come from other MMOs where it is "cool" to have a title more than you. In WoW you can even click on other players and compare your achievements with them. The achievements in WoW don't even give you anything, rarely a title.

I would not want to play with someone who has never been defeated in this game, because it doesn't mean he knows how to play his char, but it means he is not willing to take risks or sacrifice himself to protect the group healer.

Back in the day, I remember being teased for having Undying showing. For some of the same sentiment i see, if i have it, I must not be willing to take risks,etc. I have never seen it the other way around since beta. Personally, either way, the discrimination is stupid. So what if i have it or not. I tend to solo a lot, and early game, unless you do a bad pull, dying is not likely. My first hunter had made it to 19 and had one bar to go, was cruising in Goblin area in the greenfield, pulled that signature goblin by accident, with 3 others, and well that was that Anyone that has played with me knows, if im on a heavy or a strong enough melee char, I tend to do what I can to be last man out, that's the way I am.

If someone demands to know if you have that title, ask why, if he wants to be a elitist &&&&, find another group, if hes just cuirious then have fun.

In all of my years since beta and with 37 characters, I have never heard of someone thinking that that title made them elite and turning away someone who doesn't have it. When I see someone wearing one of those titles, I just have to smile. I know it's not a vet's alt. The titles are a surefire way to recognize a newbie. If I ever did try to group with someone who asked me that, I'd probably have a stroke from laughing so hard. That is just too funny to take seriously.

Being denied the opportunity to group with people who use that title as a criteria for acceptance is a lot like being denied the opportunity to contract leprosy; I'm better off missing the opportunity.

I have never heard about this 'Not-having-undying-title-racism', so I think there are no problems with these titles, they should just simply remain.

Originally Posted by Nemelis

I personally have gained it only on 1 character and will not gain it on more, since the purpose of that character is to stay alive until max-level, so it is appropriate for that character.

Wow, I've never seen anyone else try this and get beyond about 30. Good luck!

Back to the point, I don't really see a problem with it. I like the titles. It's nice when a low-level alt, who all I've done on them is deliver post, gets called Indomitable or Undying. I've never seen the issue your talking about.

I'm still not seeing the reasoning behind "it's unfair" beyond you simply repeating the phrase "it's unfair".

I'm tempted to believe an earlier poster's assertion that you may not be entirely sincere in posting this...

Fantasy:

Person 1: Hey, can I join your group?
Person 2: Sure, but do you have the 'Undying' title?
Person 1: Er, no?
Person 2: Sorry, you can't join.
Person 1: Why not!
Person 2: You don't have the 'Undying' title. You need to reach level 20 without dying to get it.
Person 1: Okay well, that was five years ago when the game was much harder!
Person 2: Tough luck, and I started playing this game and it's so easy and I didn't die that much. I'm better than you.
Person 1: That's nice! Can I join now?
Person 2: No.
Person 1: This is not fair at all...
Person 2: Really? I got just the best alternative.
Person 1: What's that?
Person 2: Person 1 has been added to your ignore list.

Reality:

Person 1: Hey, can I join your group?
Person 2: Sure, but do you have the 'Undying' title?
Person 1: Sure do!
Person 2: Sorry, you can't join.
Person 1: Why not!
Person 2: You have the 'Undying' title. You spent 20 levels running away from danger.
Person 1: Okay well, that was five years ago when the game was much harder!
Person 2: Tough luck, if you can't take a little risk then you're a bad teammate.
Person 1: That's nice! Can I join now?
Person 2: No.
Person 1: This is not fair at all...
Person 2: Really? I got just the best alternative.
Person 1: What's that?
Person 2: Person 1 has been added to your ignore list.

Originally Posted by Mephistophelis

Firstly, I think these titles of reaching a certain level without dying are contrary to what Turbine's main aim is: to bring fair gaming for everyone. Frankly, there is nothing fair about this system where you earn a title or deed by not dying. People damn right use these titles or deeds to earn themselves a higher seat than others, who spend equal time getting to where they want to be.
*snip*

you've got to be kidding me...
I'm starting to believe you're just a troll.
All your suggestions I've been reading so far did involve some kind of dumbing down and streamlining of the game... why would you want that? Why take away the last bit of customization and individualism? Next you're gonna suggest to get rid off cosmetic outfits... *rolls eyes*

If you're seriously saying there are people who won't take you along because you don't have the Undying title, I'd seriously reconsider what kind of people you play with... I'd tell them to go to hell, my main doesn't have that title either, I screwed it up way back, so what? I still try to get it with each alt I roll and at least there's something still to work for that not everyone can get too easily... why not just invent the "I win"-button, you just press it and get everything you can possibly get in the game, all titles, gear and deeds... sounds like fun, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Nemelis

And for that I would like to see more titles or benefits added to the current ones:
lvl 30: new title: Permanent morale boost: 5%
lvl 40: new title: Again 5 % permanent morale boost
etcetera: for each 10 lvls not dying: gain 5 % permanent morale boost.

Not a good idea at all. People would just avoid any difficult quests (translation: group quests) all the way up to level cap to avoid losing their bonus. That would make finding a group even harder than it is now. Level 20 is a good place to stop since that's when you can start running Barrows, the first serious risk for dying for most characters.

Personally I love the Undying title, especially because I got it on my low-morale, suicidal and CBR-permanently-active Champion

I agree with my learned people on the comment section. Title means little. It either means you adapted to your character style quickly, you dont take risks, or you have a lv 75 friend that helps you out all the time. If getting the title means that much to you, suggest changing the requirement from "get to __ level without dying" to "reach __ amount of levels without dying". That way whoever wants the deed can get it whenever they want. (provided they aren't at or near the level cap). But i have reached lv 20 on 5 toons and never saw anything like this. There will always be elites in the world of Middle-Earth, and changing 1 set of deeds wont stop them. Then they'll find another title to brag about, and make a little kinship about it, and exclude all the people they want. /unsigned

Originally Posted by Vilan

Not a good idea at all. People would just avoid any difficult quests (translation: group quests) all the way up to level cap to avoid losing their bonus. That would make finding a group even harder than it is now. Level 20 is a good place to stop since that's when you can start running Barrows, the first serious risk for dying for most characters.

Imagine Turbine adds "but if you die while in a fellowship/raid, it does not count" - not that hard to implement, we already have quests that cannot advance while in a raid, so *something* is tracking our status; and it's hard to imagine significant number of people would be spending 85 levels in a fake "title-grab" group


(I'd like to think there wouldn't be ragethreads from "but I wanna play 100% solo!" people... but I, somehow, can't :P)

I'd have a good laugh if someone would ever ask me that

Anyone who uses the Undying line of titles as an indicator of player competence is an idiot. There's absolutely no way to tell the difference between a green-quest-onry Undying player and a understands-their-class-and-the-game Undying player.

So one idiot decides to use a completely irrelevant feature as a condition for joining their group and you think that's a reason to remove the feature? What if, instead of requiring the "Undying" title, they'd required the "Pie-eating Champion" title? Would you insist that's too elitist as well? Or how about if they only wanted elves in their group and no dwarves, hobbits, or men?

I actually do wish Turbine had implemented the Undying/Undefeated titles differently. I think there should only have been one of them. ("Undefeated" sounds the best, but "undying" would be ok.) Every character should have that title available as soon as they're created, and get to keep it until the first time they're defeated, regardless of level. Being "undefeated" at low levels would be relatively meaningless, but it would mean something for a high-level character to still retain his undefeated title.

Maybe make an instance / skirmish for this title instead of leveling a lowbie?
Something on the lines of "Survive x or y instance/skirmish with no deaths in a party of 2+"?
Getting to 20 is easy enough.

(Sorry if it's already been suggested. I didn't read everything in this thread.)

Survival in Barrow - downs? :P

I don't see a problem with it. And I've never seen or heard anyone denying people access to groups because they didn't have it. I have a few characters that don't have it (these characters were from when it was a little bit of a challenge to get the title, it's completely easy mode now). Honestly, I didn't even know it was still possible to die before you get to level 20 anymore. I do level 2-3 characters up with every new expansion so I see the differences in the difficulty. I had all classes maxed prior to Moria and all 7 maxed prior to Mirkwood. After Mirkwood I made a couple new characters using different race/class combinations. When Mirkwood came out I think is the point in the game that it was complete easy-mode for going 1-20.

I remember going into The Old Forest around level 8 and the trees attacked you instead of just threatening. Barrow-downs at about 13 and you were in the Lone-lands around 15. Now, you can get past 20 just by doing Shire quests.

I'd have to wonder why you'd still want to be in a group that's that elitist after they say you can't enter.
I've never heard of this before, but if I were in the position of wanting to join, and finding out they had this requirement, I would care less, as I don't really hang around elitist jerks.
Still wanting to be a part of that group afterwards says something about yourself, in all honesty.

Makes me wonder if they previously played World of Warcraft.
If your DPS, tanking, or healing wasn't superb in higher levels, you were kicked very quickly.
If your gear lacked, you were kicked. Not much sense, because you need to run the instance you get kicked from to get the gear.

In LotRO here... I've solo'd for about 95% of the game. I've come across more skirm soldiers outside of skirmishes than I've seen elitists. And that is very rare.