Thread: Thoughts of a Veteran MMO player

Over the years I have traveled the world. I have served my country for twelve wonderful years. It all ended with an injury back in 2004. Ever since, I collect a monthly check and have tons of time to play mmo's. I've played most of them and have spent literally, thousands of dollars on 4 of them.

When I first tried LOTRO back in 2007 I was not impressed. The server lag, load times, graphics, etc. enticed me to find refuge in another game. This particular game is run by the worst company in the gaming industry. My credit card information was stolen twice, 99% of all forum posts are nerfed by moderators, the company ignores the community, etc. So one day I left the game I love in search of another game to call home.

Since I left that game I have tried over a dozen mmo's. Many of them were fun, for a while. But then I got bored and moved to the next.

This is what lead me back to LOTRO.

I have been playing now for about a week. For the most part, I like what I see. The game quality and feel seems to have improved substantially. I'm enjoying the quest lines, the combat is actually fun and the options of what to do with my time seem endless. But... there is still much room for improvement.

I appreciate the opportunity to try the game without having to purchase it in advance. It certainly is an aspect of being a major gamer that annoys me. I have spent a LOT of money on games that went in the trash can.

So while I enjoy the game, I'm finding it hard to become a subscriber. Here are my gripes:

1. When I come to such an old game and buy the latest expansion, I expect it to include all previous content. Bad enough that I'll have to play months of catch up. I will not purchase each expansion individually!

2. When I purchase a game (3+ year old mmo's specifically) I expect 30 days of free unrestricted game time. This would translate into a VIP membership.

3. Bag space! I'm a quest fanatic. I don't like the have to stop everything JUST to empty my bags. This is a very poor item management system and it takes forever to clear my bags on two characters (I two box every game I play).

4. Two box/ multi-box options. Stopping the autofollow each time you click on a quest npc or harvest a node is the most irritating of any mmo I've ever played! You need beeter two box options that do not rely on third party sources.

5. Customizable keys. Your macro system is also one of the worst I've seen since the launch of Everquest 1 back in 1999.

6. Your launcher and it's inability to connect existing Turbine accounts (non-lotro accounts). I actually had to call your customer service and stop my life for over an hour just to conenct my existing Turbine account. This is just horrible business practice... no excuse.

7. The character screen does not let you switch servers. Do you know how inconvienient this is to someone who has been away from the game for years and can not remember their former servers name? I had to log out of the game and relaunch for each and every server I wanted to check. Again... horrible business practice for an mmo company... no excuse.


That all sounds very negative, but it is the truth. Death is in the details. For me, these things will prevent me from purchasing lotro and becoming an active member of your community. I'm curious if any devs actually read these newb posts and/or listen to the community.

You guys have an old game. My advice would be to shift your attention to players that are upset or bored with their current games. Entice them to buy the game. Give them incentive by including all former content and some free game time to catch up. Retention of your existing community and money go hand in hand, but recruitment is your money maker at this phase! Create an incentive and mail it out to all former players in your database that have left the game. Try harder at recruiting and retention and listen to your community.

"This particular game is run by the worst company in the gaming industry" came out wrong. I was refering to Sony Online Entertainment, not you Turbine.

1. Won't happen, other games usually require A to play B to play C to play D, hence it makes sense to bundle them. If you don't wish to play a certain area in lotro you never need to (though Moria is a tough place to skip, but it is doable to your own detriment)

2. But you don't purchase lotro, its f2p, other games include game time because without game time its worthless, you cannot do anything. You can play the entire Lotro game without ever subscribing or spending a single cent on the game.

3. What do you expect? Unlimited bag space? A vendor to follow you around and available where ever you are? neither is very realistic. Some times you just have to make choices. 6 bags consisting of a total of 90 spaces should be more then enough for anyone.

4. Personally I wish multi-boxing was banned in its entirety, so can't help you here.

5. Macros are too easy mode, push 1 key for your entire combat rotation, gee thats real skill there.

6. never played another Turbine game, but the few times I have called customer service I was helped very quickly.

7. Never understood why this is like that but then I play on a single server so not much of an issue for me.

nice story, but, not believe you...get new marketing tactics

First off, thank you for your service to your country (which I will assume was military).

But really, maybe you should find another game to call home. I've tried a few online games, but never spent anywhere near what you say to have, and I like almost everything about the way LOTRO is done. Most or your complaints dont really sound very reasonable?

Honestly, your post was rather a big downer over-all. I hope you find somewhere to spend your time that wont seem so depressing.

Originally Posted by Vectory

1. When I come to such an old game and buy the latest expansion, I expect it to include all previous content. Bad enough that I'll have to play months of catch up. I will not purchase each expansion individually!

This was brought up in another thread, and I asked what other games do this. I know EQ2 used to, but after they went F2P the expansions there are not bundled, either.

2. When I purchase a game (3+ year old mmo's specifically) I expect 30 days of free unrestricted game time. This would translate into a VIP membership.

I'm not sure why this would even be an expectation. As for the age of the game, I know we living in the fast-paced digital world where toys are "old" after a year, but I still find LOTRO to be better than most out there, so I don't take age into account.

3. Bag space! I'm a quest fanatic. I don't like the have to stop everything JUST to empty my bags. This is a very poor item management system and it takes forever to clear my bags on two characters (I two box every game I play).

As a packrat, I feel your pain. are you trying to make do with 3 bags as Free or Premium, or have you upped to 5 bags? (A 6th is available once the new expansion rolls around. Or available now if you get the Legendary edition pre-purchase.) Bag space can be annoying, but it is manageable with practice. What would you suggest for a change?

4. Two box/ multi-box options. Stopping the autofollow each time you click on a quest npc or harvest a node is the most irritating of any mmo I've ever played! You need beeter two box options that do not rely on third party sources.

Like one of the other posters, I don't multi-box, so I don't have much input here. I have not heard of other games officially supporting it with game mechanics, though. Where does that and how?

5. Customizable keys. Your macro system is also one of the worst I've seen since the launch of Everquest 1 back in 1999.

"Standard" macros were not included by design. If I recall, that was a choice Turbine made very early on to prevent some of the issues other MMOs had seen with botting through the macro system. Whether that could change now or be made more secure, I don't know.

6. Your launcher and it's inability to connect existing Turbine accounts (non-lotro accounts). I actually had to call your customer service and stop my life for over an hour just to conenct my existing Turbine account. This is just horrible business practice... no excuse.

Not exactly sure what this means.

7. The character screen does not let you switch servers. Do you know how inconvienient this is to someone who has been away from the game for years and can not remember their former servers name? I had to log out of the game and relaunch for each and every server I wanted to check. Again... horrible business practice for an mmo company... no excuse.

I agree it would be nice to be able to change servers without logging out completely, but as for "horrible practice"? Turbine lets you have your character limit on each and every server, as opposed to many MMOs I have seen that give you a set number of characters across however many servers they have. Given the choice between the two, I'm ok with this for now. I don't change servers multiple times in a play session, though, and I have not had to log into each server looking for "lost" characters. Had you tried looking at the character listings on your my.lotro page?


Overall, I don't see many of these as big issues in the game. It could be that LOTRO and Turbine's design just are not for you. Or that you need a break from gaming in general after cycling through so many different games and getting bored/burning out on each one. Moderation in all things, right?

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Originally Posted by Vectory

1. I will not purchase each expansion individually!

It´s kinda the industry standard. Doesn´t make it any better, agreed.
And the did just recently lower the prices for the last two expansions.

2. When I purchase a game (3+ year old mmo's specifically) I expect 30 days of free unrestricted game time. This would translate into a VIP membership.

Uh, wrong and they one upped you actually.
If you purchase the Mithril Pack for example, your FREE account gets upgraded "´till the end of servers" to premium and the included regions are yours permanently too.
Read up again on the differences in LotrO´s F2P model.

3. Bag space! I'm a quest fanatic. I don't like the have to stop everything JUST to empty my bags. This is a very poor item management system and it takes forever to clear my bags on two characters (I two box every game I play).

Agreed, so do I in LotrO and this was the main reason I eventually bought all the bags on both accounts.
It gets bearable after that.

4. Two box/ multi-box options...

5. Customizable keys. Your macro system..

Mixed agreement. Absolutely HATE any form of macro. So I´m actually glad LotrO has none. Though for following there are keybinds you can put on the hotkeys. Have to research it myself more throughly, as obviously you should too.

6. Your launcher and it's inability to connect existing Turbine accounts (non-lotro accounts). ..

7. The character screen does not let you switch servers. ..

They have improved, a bit. Last year people had big problems subscribing to VIP without having to automatically open a ticket.
And yes, I still won´t in a million years give Turbine my personal banking data. Not since that total forum hack last year and complete loss of confidence though the abysmal information policies.

Granted the server switch is annoying, but seriously.
How often would you actually use it?
Outside of the free 10TP per server grind or trying to find your characters. Which you could have shortened somewhat by logging on the fora here and playing around in the "My Preferences" options.

That all sounds very negative, but it is the truth. Death is in the details.

Very much agreed.

Too many people nowadays don´t seem to get the difference between constructive criticizm and trolling. I found your post very constructive.
Don´t know about the Devs.

Originally Posted by Vectory

3. Bag space! I'm a quest fanatic. I don't like the have to stop everything JUST to empty my bags. This is a very poor item management system and it takes forever to clear my bags on two characters (I two box every game I play).



7. The character screen does not let you switch servers. Do you know how inconvienient this is to someone who has been away from the game for years and can not remember their former servers name? I had to log out of the game and relaunch for each and every server I wanted to check. Again... horrible business practice for an mmo company... no excuse.

I can only comment on 2 points:
3. You can lock items that you want, and when you go to a vendor sell tab, check the box to hide locked items, then press the "Sell All" button.
Voila! Easy selling!

7. If you go to your "Characters" screen here on the forums, it lists all characters, and the server they live on.

-Sham

Thank you all for the replies. I expected to be flamed much harder than this. That speaks volumes about your community of players!

@Catisa - Your just a bundle of joy arent ya?

@Etorgg - Great reply. Your a force to be reckoned with!

@Sendhound - Thank you very much. Yes, United States Army 12 years. Agreed and touché.

@Thornglen - Server swapping is not common practice, your right. But from an game company's point of view this is not a minor oversite. It's actually very unprofessional. That is a major "no-go" as we say in the Army. Personally I do enjoy playing different servers in most of the games that I frequent. The reason is each server has it's own distinct feel and community. For hard core raiding I stay on one server. For relaxing, questing and crafting I will play on a seperate server. It's my particular playstyle and rule in life. Never put all of your eggs in one basket!

@Flatfoot789 - Very detailed response. Thank you. I guess it's point of view. My point of view comes from a new player arriving to a game that is almost 6 years old. I firmly believe that if a company WANTS a customer, they need to encourage a monetary commitment. That is true in all business, not just games. In my opinion, Turbine is not chasing after new customers. They seem to be hoping we just happen to stroll in and commit. Very poor business practice (I have a BA in Business from Michigan State). Anyway, thanks for an impartial post. It was refreshing.

@Shammwoww - Your name is very familiar for some reason. I'm familiar with the lock. What I would much rather see is a right click/drop down that allows us to lock an entire bag. Then those contents would not show up in the vendor screen at all. It's common practice in many mmo's these days. Also, a tradeskill bag would make a world of difference. Use it to store 30+ tradeskill slot items and I would be a happy camper!


A lot of my comments should not be taken as a flame or disrespect. I mean no harm. I just wanted to leave constructive feedback and assumed that was the intention of this forum. So please do not be offended. I wish this game all the success it deserves. Lord of the Rings was the best movie of all times!!! Your community is fantastic and that alone will make a huge impact on those attempting to find a new home. See ya all in EQ3. Oh wait... that will never happen. Ok see ya in GW2.

@OP

You have good points. Many long time players know, for example, lack of back space is major weakness in this game. I spend HOURS in Lotro moving inventory - something I don't need to do in WoW or Rift.

Lotro is a flawed game. Has some great parts too, and can be fun to play, but it has many weaknesses and comes out badly compared to competition. Maybe for some players it is perfect - for me too many flaws, can't group easily, no PvP with your character to do as a change (unless you are high level). AH is substandard. Lots of unfixed bugs - lag issues they cannot fix and try to hide.

Its a substandard game by a substandard company - who is making lots of money and does not want to spend any of that money to make the game better - will only spend the minimum needed to keep the game going and money coming in.

If you need a new MMO, or want one you can play for little money, though, it's not a bad choice. Nice players, beautiful world, costume system, Moria is amazing and unique in any MMO. They could make it a truly great game but this will never happen. Turbine is content to be 2nd best (to WoW, to Rift, etc.) as long as they are making money.

I will just answer two of your points as I feel the same way most of the others do here but agree with you with one.

Yes when I recently tried to add LOTRO to my DDO turbine account I found I couldn't and had to ring thier premium phoneline which I am a little dissapointed about. Apparently this has been broken for a long time and should be fixed as to not deter new players who may already have a turbine account. Kind of bad practice but hope they will fix this soon.

Secondly, the only other expansion based MMORPG game that I know that doesn't charge for expansion content at all (except for the subscription ofcourse) is EVE Online, but all others charge. There is no reason to rage about this.

I sense from what you have said is that you have played way too many MMO's and just wish every single feature of a MMO that you have gotten used to and like were in a single game. Unfortunately things do not work like that and each MMO has its own way of doing things.

(PS, multiboxing is legal but bad practice imo, play as it was designed to be played!)

(PSS, LOTRO is based on the original books and not the movies which are based on the original books).

(PSSS, you have spent how long in the game and have already decided that Turbine are not updating/improving the game?)