Thread: An over-powered Warden ability?

I'm wondering if there should be a cap on the warden debuff Open Wound which is from the 5 piece set bonus of the Spear Lords moors set. Its a debuff which can be spammed and it stacks infinately.
This is very difficult for a healing class who is trying to get away and keep its self alive, or for any target the warden goes after, the debuff can apply a full -100% inc healing making it impossible to heal a target (as if creep healing wasn't hard enough!).


This picture shows the debuff in action, stacking 6 times.


The set in question:


Would this be considered Overpowered? Seeing as there aren't many more things that can gain to this level of reduction to inc healing for creepside save a very situational enhanced blight + dev strike. Any thoughts?
I'm thinking maybe the debuff shouldn't stack more than 3-4 times? (-60% and -80% respectively)
-120% inc heals is a bit over kill.

Thoughts?

just another day in the moors! spamming onslaught with -120% inc healing debuffs and doing quite a lot of damage too.

since this is not something on creep side I would say fixed next year if lucky.

Did they use Turbine Math on it, too? Like, when you have -120% healing, you actually *damage* yourself with heals?

Originally Posted by Frisco

Did they use Turbine Math on it, too? Like, when you have -120% healing, you actually *damage* yourself with heals?

I think wardens might love that, but i don't think it does no. You can see in the picture i tried to use a heal on myself and it just applied the effect while healing for nothing.

I would say it'd be balanced if it were capped at 3 times. -60% INC healing is balanced enough, especially when it's uncurable, can be used on the move, and has a longish duration. Pretty ridiculous that it can stack to 100%...


Lol...really puts into perspective how much firedots ruined the moors when they could stack more than 3 times....this is a lot more detrimental to a side as a whole, and has a lot less publicity. (albeit it is a rarer occurance, I suppose)

Originally Posted by Exion_Blade

I'm wondering if there should be a cap on the warden debuff Open Wound which is from the 5 piece set bonus of the Spear Lords moors set. Its a debuff which can be spammed and it stacks infinately.
This is very difficult for a healing class who is trying to get away and keep its self alive, or for any target the warden goes after, the debuff can apply a full -100% inc healing making it impossible to heal a target (as if creep healing wasn't hard enough!).


This picture shows the debuff in action, stacking 6 times.


The set in question:


Would this be considered Overpowered? Seeing as there aren't many more things that can gain to this level of reduction to inc healing for creepside save a very situational enhanced blight + dev strike. Any thoughts?
I'm thinking maybe the debuff shouldn't stack more than 3-4 times? (-60% and -80% respectively)
-120% inc heals is a bit over kill.

Thoughts?

Yes, it is ridiculous. I've posted a couple of times in the warden forums that it needs to be changed so it doesn't stack with itself more than once per warden per target to bring it in line with most other debuffs. I admit I do sometimes switch out my 3/3 combo for the 5 piece spear lord bonus if I'm up against a group heavily stacked with healers, but in that case I rarely have the chance to put more than one or two of the heal debuff on a given target. I don't generally spam it against a single target (unless it's a defiler who puts flies on me in which case I go berserk and break out every advantage I have because I %*@% hate those #$@# bugs). When I first got the set bonus I tried a couple of experimental spars, and yes, it stacks up until you get "absorbed" when you try to heal yourself.

The sad part is isn't not even the most outrageous of our set bonuses. If you think that one is bad, you should see the debuff called I think heartlessness - it's a 30 second incurable 25% movement speed and 10% attack speed debuff that comes with 5 pieces of the Vigilance set. Not as bad as a stacking heal debuff? Consider it is applied with a choice of three gambits, all of which are AoE, two of which can hit up to 10 targets at a time, and if the warden is in Assailment stance, from as far as 40m away. I don't actually have that set, it's so outrageously overpowered that I've started spending my spare commendations on audacity armor for my unranked captain instead (who might not even reach 75 in time for the next level cap increase since I absolutely hate leveling cappies).

Originally Posted by Hethyba

The sad part is isn't not even the most outrageous of our set bonuses. If you think that one is bad, you should see the debuff called I think heartlessness - it's a 30 second incurable 25% movement speed and 10% attack speed debuff that comes with 5 pieces of the Vigilance set. Not as bad as a stacking heal debuff? Consider it is applied with a choice of three gambits, all of which are AoE, two of which can hit up to 10 targets at a time, and if the warden is in Assailment stance, from as far as 40m away.

Are they turning Wardens into debuffers now?

Originally Posted by Exion_Blade

Are they turning Wardens into debuffers now?

Nah, they're making every freep class able to do every role...

oh ye that heartlessness one surely beats it though.

for some weird reason I bothered to play again even though I knew it's even worse than the last time I went into the moors and I saw a warden spamming this thing on everyone, practically everyone standing around had it at some point.

it's just &&&&&&&&...seriously and none seemed to care either are people seriously still playing and accepted we need to keep getting facerolled by freeps? some argued it is still fun cause you still got a ''chance'' against freeps... yet they forget the amount freeps kill them compared to them killing freeps probably 3-4 times more.

don't get me wrong I a love a challenge but it is way beyond that it is ridiculous and somehow I got a feeling it gets worse in Rohan, but I digress....

Originally Posted by Exion_Blade

Are they turning Wardens into debuffers now?

Making Burgs even more useless then before.

Yeah, this set is ridiculously overpowered. Actually, every warden set is.
The abillity for one person to cancel out an entire craid's heals on one creep, is just... awful.


This doesnt mean i wont use it when theres a healer in a 3v1 though

From a warleader (rank 9) healing point of view, this is the warden debuff I fear the most. There is a certain warden always does this to me, 1v1 no way i will win against him, he just slaughter me once the debuffing is complete. It always happens raid vs raid , both raid have enough healers ( almost equal), all the warden do is to debuffed us one by one while the other freep dps/melt him down, while we creep healers cant do nothing becoz of this OP debuffed, It leads to our creep raid being wipe multiple times.

I'm not against warden class, they really need to be tough as a tank class on pve world, BUT this INSANE incoming heal debuff is stupidly OP.

I hope turbine do some action against this. Its just so frustrating as creep healer.

Originally Posted by Rugba

just another day in the moors! spamming onslaught with -120% inc healing debuffs and doing quite a lot of damage too.

since this is not something on creep side I would say fixed next year if lucky.

Probably, not on the road map!

I think the first thing that should be looked into is the removal of escape skills. Then they can take care of all other skills people want.

it's OP indeed but fortunately there's really few wardens that use it. 2 wardens with this set can cause some serious problems during RvRs

It is really overpowered, fortunately everybody that cared has stopped playing

The fact that the debuff stacks to a meaningless level, and not just that makes it impossible to play a healer against any player using it, strongly hints it is actually a bug.

Why stack to 120%, if stacking over 100% debuff has no consequences? To me, that fact alone, indicates that this debuff stacking at all (given no other class possesses such an extreme healing debuff) means that that the coding behind it is broken.

Hopefully they'll fix such a badly broken debuff it in the next upcoming patch.

Happened again to me during a keep fight, trying to out run the zerg and a warden slows then spams this debuff on me, needless to say i didnt make it up alive.

Where are all those freeps crying for "balance" now?

I haven't had a warden use this debuff on me (to my knowledge) yet, but this is monstrously OP. Freeps complained about the Enhanced Blight, and that was only a little puddle where the debuff was instantly lost on exiting. If the froob was on the run it probably wouldn't hit them at all.

This, however, is completely unavoidable, and devastating to RvR action. Grouped freeps have always been more powerful than grouped creeps, because of all the options they have, but once wardens start figuring this set bonus out, freep zergs will be nigh well unstoppable.


This needs to be fixed with RoR, or sooner, if devs intend to have anything left creepside.

Originally Posted by Andared

Where are all those freeps crying for "balance" now?

<snip>

This needs to be fixed with RoR, or sooner, if devs intend to have anything left creepside.

Mostly crying about the "broken pot" and its one minute Slow immunity - as if that single issue upsets game balance to the point where they're getting repeatedly wiped - or something.

I haven't seen our resident UberHeroicWarden (tm) on Vilya use this. Or even any of the other slightly less UberHeroic ones use it. Stackable AoE Vampire heals? Yes. This? No.

But yeah, with that sort of math, I doubt it's WaI.

We arent crying because this is an armor set with a bonus that Turbine gave wardens. WAI

R15 brands w/o needing r15?
Slow immunity pot for 1 minute? if that was wai, surely it would have some kind of buff under your vitals saying immune to slows. But it doesnt. You cant qq for balance when creeps defend the use of these. Sure put a limit on this warden skill, 120% is too much. Give it 60% cap or something. But it is funny to watch my warden friend put this debuff on the assist target and he melts.

Originally Posted by Cardal

We arent crying because this is an armor set with a bonus that Turbine gave wardens. WAI

R15 brands w/o needing r15?
Slow immunity pot for 1 minute? if that was wai, surely it would have some kind of buff under your vitals saying immune to slows. But it doesnt. You cant qq for balance when creeps defend the use of these. Sure put a limit on this warden skill, 120% is too much. Give it 60% cap or something. But it is funny to watch my warden friend put this debuff on the assist target and he melts.

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by Cardal

R15 brands w/o needing r15?

I believe you mean the R0 brands that were incorrectly marked as R15 brands which are now WAI?

Can we stop this pot BS? It's bugged, it's an exploit, people who use it suck, but it isn't a uber gamebreaker or anything. I think the fact that it takes a few minutes for 3 wargs to kill a mini is a bit worse. I dunno.

I originally thought it funny to see heals absorb, it is a very ridiculous mechanic though something I want changed with RoR for sure.

Those pot are extremely useful:

10 second brand > 1min slow immunity IMO.

I'll keep on using them until they get fixed (if not WAI) and I'll still be using them after they get fixed.

You can QQ all you like about someone using a pot when it's secondary ability just might be bugged. The truth is it is hardly game breaking. My honest opinion is that most of this QQ stems from creeps being able to get away from Freeps who are used to spamming incurable slows and demolishing their target.

It sucks when people get away from fights that you know you were going to win doesn't it? However, these freeps aren't concerned with balance or fairness. Were they crying for a fix when Guardians Charge worked through broken legs, or when a bugged LM ability gave them an in combat DF, RK burg flap anyone? I can recall one thread about each of these issues, they were discussed and then gotten over. How many more threads are going to be made or brought back to this really quite insignificant bug?

Are any of you concerned about the bigger issues of balance in the moors now?

Sadly it seems not, it looks to me like most Freeps are concerned with maintaining the upper hand in any and all fights and justifying the fact that they have this huge advantage (DPS, HPS, CC and survivability) because Creeps have 1/4 more moral.

Originally Posted by Untg99

I originally thought it funny to see heals absorb, it is a very ridiculous mechanic though something I want changed with RoR for sure.

I originally thought it would encourage leaders to rethink target selection. I am usually wrong.

Originally Posted by DaMac

I'm sorry, I seriously TRIED to read the post here, but when I came to this, It was all over.

Originally Posted by Cardal

We arent crying because this is an armor set with a bonus that Turbine gave wardens. WAI

R15 brands w/o needing r15?
Slow immunity pot for 1 minute? if that was wai, surely it would have some kind of buff under your vitals saying immune to slows. But it doesnt. You cant qq for balance when creeps defend the use of these. Sure put a limit on this warden skill, 120% is too much. Give it 60% cap or something. But it is funny to watch my warden friend put this debuff on the assist target and he melts.

And im sure, with out a doubt, that these clearly over-powered items are assuring creep dominance through out the Ettenmoors even to this day. Correct?