Sometime ago I proposed the idea for this class and went into quite some detail about the theory, skills, mechanics etc. Unfortunately I posted the idea in 3 different forums and all three got taken down because of multi posting it. So I will leave a lot more open for discussion this time and just propose the idea.
I got this idea strictly from the belief that it would be very lore appropriate and a good alternative to captains or lore-masters in group content.
Hobbits are well versed in all things that grow, thus a hobbit herbalist would know how to utilise the many plants and fungi for beneficial ways to their allies and as potent weapons against their enemies.
The herbalist class would utilize potent toxins and poisons for it's red line traits. Combining different poultices will increase the severity of the effects over time.
The herbalist class when doing damage relies on both debuffing and building powerful dots on the target in order to defeat them. Primary front end damage is very limited to the class, it instead relies on quickly applying different toxins to devastate his foes over time, the conditions increasing on tiers and combinations.
The herbalist yellow trait line would focus on using special poultices and herbs which confuse, disable, or otherwise put his enemies into a weakened or debilitated state. When fully traited the herbalist would be a powerful debuffer with some cc and somewhat compromised for dps. This would be a setup
designed for group and raid content.
The herbalist blue trait line would focus on group support. This would be abilities on bolstering allies abilities as well as some healing capabilities. Healing output when fully traited would be around the line of a captain with some unique group buffs.
The herbalist will give players the option of a class that can be a debuffer or support class for group and raid situations or even a different style of dps which would provide consistent and potentially formidable damage over time format.
This class will not replace lms or captains. It will be an option to use instead of. Balancing it will be up to the implementation of such a class. The nature of debuffs and buffs will have to both have new or different effects. The class will do some of the things of those two classes but also do new things as well as not offer certain things in order to give it it's own place. The idea behind all the trait lines is that there are tiering effects like a runekeeper but more unique is the idea of certain tiered skill combos whether it be dps debuff or buff from a herbalist will result in a different more powerful effect. Sort of like a wardens gambit but applied to a target to reach the desired effect.
Primary damage type will be acid for the herbalist.
Legendary weapons could be either staves or even a slingshot.
At the very least for some ranged debuffs and skills the animation could be that of the herbalist loading his slingshot with his desired herb or poultice and launching it at the target.
Legendary item could be a satchel or herb pack.
Class could be light or medium armour.
So in a nutshell I think you guys can paint a very clear picture of this class. It could be a great one and would fit very nicely into the lore of lotr.
Now I ask of the community to help build the vision. Chip in and add to the theory, potential skills and trait lines, help build a solid feasability to this. Alternatively outline some of the potential pitfalls or problems that could occur with such a class. Personally I think this could be one of the best new class ideas in terms of lore and integration to the game. The idea has kicked around my head for two years now and although its too close to ROR, perhaps the idea can get some traction and popularity and be a contender for a future update or expansion. I would ask that the community only comments in a positive manner which builds the idea. If you have nothing constructive to add please just choose to ignore the thread as I want a positive and constructive thread. If you have criticism for the class feel free to share but please do so in a constructive and positive manner. I would very much like to see what we can make of the Hobbit Herbalist.
Thanks for reading, I look forwards to some contributions!
Achereus, Ex-Leader of TDH
April 2007 - January 2012 RIP
Pewpewboomheadshot R10 BA, League of Extraordinary Creeps
I like it! This is the first new class or class/race proposal I've found appealing (just say "no" to dwarven necromancers).
+rep!
Your class suggests a new CC skill unique to the proposed class -- the fear/root or fear/stun. Much like the hunter's beast fear skill, this would apply only to carnivorous beasts and carrion feeders. I envision the herbalist hurling a prepared bait ball, attracting the target perhaps 25 meters away from the herbalist. The target then consumes the bait and is subsequently stunned or rooted (the bait causing temporary paralysis or confusion or some such). This would be a way to drive certain mobs away from melee range and stun them with one skill (a hunter can currently accomplish this using two skills; combining the two actions into one skill would be new).
Party buffs such as increased resistance to disease and poison would make sense for this class. So, too, would it make sense for such a class to bolster or replenish the fellowship's morale and/or power by crushing fragrant herbs. I'd love to see a class that specializes in group power replenishment and this class is a natural (pun intended) choice!
Your proposed class sounds like a lot of fun to play and is one that I find far more lore-friendly than many of the currently available classes!
Last edited by Dark_Toad; Jul 05 2012 at 01:50 PM.
Reason: Typo
I like it! This is the first new class or class/race proposal I've found appealing (just say "no" to dwarven necromancers).
+rep!
Your class suggests a new CC skill unique to the proposed class -- the fear/root or fear/stun. Much like the hunter's beast fear skill, this would apply only to carnivorous beasts and carrion feeders. I envision the herbalist hurling a prepared bait ball, attracting the target perhaps 25 meters away from the herbalist. The target then consumes the bait and is subsequently stunned or rooted (the bait causing temporary paralysis or confusion or some such). This would be a way to drive certain mobs away from melee range and stun them with one skill (a hunter can currently accomplish this using two skills; combining the two actions into one skill would be new).
Party buffs such as increased resistance to disease and poison would make sense for this class. So, too, would it make sense for such a class to bolster or replenish the fellowship's morale and/or power by crushing fragrant herbs. I'd love to see a class that specializes in group power replenishment and this class is a natural (pun intended) choice!
Your proposed class sounds like a lot of fun to play and is one that I find far more lore-friendly than many of the currently available classes!
Your suggestions fit in perfectly with the atmosphere of the class, you have grasped the concept 100%. Thanks for the great contributions.
Funny enough was the group power maintenance was one of my original thoughts as well. Thanks for your input + rep
Achereus, Ex-Leader of TDH
April 2007 - January 2012 RIP
Pewpewboomheadshot R10 BA, League of Extraordinary Creeps
Well let add Flail as a weapon. Basicly a Ball and Chain. Has a longer Range then a Mace. Can have multi balls and chain up to 3 to make the weapon slower but cause more damage.
How on earth can you imagine hobbits would go around poisoning anyone? How's that supposed to be appropriate?
And how on earth can you imagine 2 hobbits traveling from the shire to mordor happened to destroy the one ring?
I'm sure they can get this small task of poisoning people, imo that is easier than ending up in mt.doom
True, although I did think of the class idea before skirms were even part of the game although that is irrelevant. I didn't bite the idea if thats what youre implying...
But that doesn't change the fact that they are in the game. I don't see an issue of the two classes sharing the name herbalist.
At any rate what are your thoughts regarding introducing the class? Viable?
Achereus, Ex-Leader of TDH
April 2007 - January 2012 RIP
Pewpewboomheadshot R10 BA, League of Extraordinary Creeps
True, although I did think of the class idea before skirms were even part of the game although that is irrelevant. I didn't bite the idea if thats what youre implying...
But that doesn't change the fact that they are in the game. I don't see an issue of the two classes sharing the name herbalist.
At any rate what are your thoughts regarding introducing the class? Viable?
In general, I don't like the idea of of it being a Hobbit exclusive. I don't see why the other races wouldn't be able to use herbs.
In general, I don't like the idea of of it being a Hobbit exclusive. I don't see why the other races wouldn't be able to use herbs.
Good point. I have several reasonings behind this.
1) Captains are man exclusive despite dwarves and elves being capable leaders.
2) While elves would have knowledge in herbs and plants they already get rune keepers and lore masters, they dont need to have the herbalist as well..
Why can't a hobbit have their own exclusive? Elves share 2 limited classes, men share 2 and get an exclusive. Hobbitsdo share burgs with men but everyone is familiar with the line "hobbits have a love for all things that grow". It only seems natural that you would find hobbits as this class far more than any other. It is my belief that this would be appropriate to make it exclusive.
Achereus, Ex-Leader of TDH
April 2007 - January 2012 RIP
Pewpewboomheadshot R10 BA, League of Extraordinary Creeps
1) Captains are man exclusive despite dwarves and elves being capable leaders.
Because elves can't muster up the charisma for it because of the waning, and dwarves are too selfish to lead non-dwarves.
2) While elves would have knowledge in herbs and plants they already get rune keepers and lore masters, they dont need to have the herbalist as well..
Why can't a hobbit have their own exclusive? Elves share 2 limited classes, men share 2 and get an exclusive. Hobbitsdo share burgs with men but everyone is familiar with the line "hobbits have a love for all things that grow". It only seems natural that you would find hobbits as this class far more than any other. It is my belief that this would be appropriate to make it exclusive.
They can have their own class, but it has to have a reason. Find something that only hobbits can do. That'll be their class.
Lore wise it sounds great. Gameplay wise, though, I think its filling up too much rolespace...
Red line is DPS (through DOTs) with some debuffs - thats a Burglar
Yellow line is CC with some debuffs - thats a LM
Blue line is healing and group buffs - thats a Captain
So it seems like you're getting to choose between the best of three worlds. Thats a lot of rolespace that can be filled by a single character. Plus, having debuffs, CC, DOTs, buffs, and heals seems like a lot of utility for one class, even without major burst-damage DPS skills. I'd be worried it would eclipse other classes too much.
Lastly, you have to be careful with adding new buffing classes. Any buffs are going to stack with Captain (and Minstrel) buffs, multiplied by however many people are in your group. There's a limited number of class-based buffs you can have in a game and still be able to keep it balanced.
You dont want to add 5 different buffing classes and have groups aura-stack themselves to God Mode. Conversely, you dont want to require groups to have all 5 different buffing classes just to be strong enough to complete certain content. Honestly, with Captain and Minstrel already in-game, and the minor buffs that some other classes have, I dont know if there's room for any more full-time buffers.
I love this idea alot and well thought out! big thumbs up. Slings would be great and a nice big walking staff.
As for poisons I cant see how thats a big stretch of the imagination, hobbits gift with plants and the like Im sure have knowledge of a few toxins for weed and pest control and would certainly know what mushroom were edible and which ones are not....
As for hobbits being all cutey and cuddly and non warlike.....*rolls his eyes*
Go to Brokenborings and have a good look at the statue there and see how unwarlike hobbits are. Not to mention the army of shirefolk who fought at Fields of Fornost...just because hobbits prefer comfort and dont appear warlike doesnt mean they are not.
Not all hobbits are nice people either. The Sackville Baginnses can be seen as greedy, selfish and spiteful.
Lore is all well and good but dont let it blind you
Hey ho to the bottle i go, to heal my heart and drown my woe.....
Well that's easy enough to change isn't it You don't just take the persons very idea and use it raw. You obviously add some changes to ideas and such. Only the very detailed and specific ideas do that sort of thing
Last edited by TiberPancake; Jul 05 2012 at 04:19 PM.
An interesting idea, well thought out. But I have to agree with the others that hobbits poisoning people to death doesn't seem appropriate. Maybe just have them knock monsters out with stun vapours? I think using various types of pipeweed to do things might be a good concept. Pipeweed is already in the game and doesn't really do much, this would be an opportunity to have it be useful.
That's a very very difference idea, the herbalist skirmish soldier is more of a small healer and its a skirmish soldier, most players don't even like skirmishes let alone would be that upset if its name was changed for a new class.
I think that this is an amazing idea, I always felt like the hobbit could use more classes, and this idea is a great lore designed one. You have my vote mate.
As for poisons I cant see how thats a big stretch of the imagination
It's not about knowing what's poisonous and what isn't. It's about wanting to use it as a weapon.
As for hobbits being all cutey and cuddly and non warlike.....*rolls his eyes*
Tolkien said that hobbits weren't warlike, so you can roll your eyes all you like. (I suggest you look up what 'warlike' that actually means: fond of war, bellicose, bloody-minded). Poisoning people is an especially brutal act and hobbits were supposed to be, well, gentler than mankind.
Not all hobbits are nice people either. The Sackville Baginnses can be seen as greedy, selfish and spiteful.
But not brutal and murderous; being nasty isn't the same thing as being downright vicious. (Lotho S-B was almost certainly murdered by Wormtongue, who was the real deal when it came to villainy).
Lore is all well and good but dont let it blind you
I'm not; you just don't seem to have a clue. Look at how the use of poison in war is viewed in real life; it's considered a horror. Then bear in mind that Tolkien actually fought in a war that involved extensive use of chemical weapons, and then try to tell me that casual use of poison by the good guys (and by hobbits, of all people!) could ever be anything other than wildly out of place.
You're getting stuck up on the word "poison"....you're not necessarily hitting them with mustard gas and blistering their lungs until they die.
Of all the ways a Hobbit would use to overcome an enemy, this seems like one of the more likely. Many a Hobbit would definitely know from experience which herbs and mushrooms were good to eat or make a tea or smoke or grind up for a spice or medicine, and would know which ones werent, and what'd happen to you if you took the wrong one.
In game terms, that could mean debuffs, or just generally weaken you enough to eventually succumb. If it really bothered you lore-wise, the "herbs" could just be for debuffs and the direct damage ones could be drawn from the weapon and their experience taking care of "pests and vermin and beasties and such" around the Shire, knowing where to strike an opponent.
Plus, look at the Sackville-Bagginses. They're sneaky and conniving and not very brave, I could completely see poison being their weapon of choice if it came down to that. Historically, poisons have not been the weapon of the "brutal and murderous".
Thats what I meant about it fitting Hobbits, lore-wise.
No, I am not joking and no, that has nothing to do with whether hobbits should be outside the Shire. That was a daft thing to say.
The thing is, hobbits weren't vicious, or cruel, or warlike. Using poison would be out of character, the idea would never even occur to them.
A fair enough point risen, but how many things have been bent and actually broken to allow the game to be played. Despite lore infractions you are still playing the game right? Would you disagree with me on the point that hobbits would at least know how to concoct poisons using deadly fauna or fungi? It is already lore bending that x amount of hobbits would even venture out to fight the forces of Angmar/Isendeep/Mordor, but the ones that were would certainly know they have to make up for their small size by coming equipped with ways to defend and attack their enemies.
Using their knowledge of the natural world to utilize against what they would consider evil enemies would indeed be an effective way to help the cause. Maybe the nature of hobbits would be to never poison those who they know are good and pure, but what would stop them when it comes to dealing with savage beasts and forces that seek to claim what is good and right and pervert it into slavery and destruction? Would it not be an altruistic use of the craft?
Originally Posted by Okamion
Because elves can't muster up the charisma for it because of the waning, and dwarves are too selfish to lead non-dwarves.
They can have their own class, but it has to have a reason. Find something that only hobbits can do. That'll be their class.
You are absolutely entitled to your points and I can see your reasoning and I respect that.
However, I do feel that this class suits a hobbit best because of references to their connection to the natural world and could warrant a class exclusive. This is my opinion, and keeping in mind that lore has been bent or broken to make the game work, do you not think that the function and application of the class itself would not add more fun and depth to the game?
Originally Posted by Sthrax
I would certainly add men into the mix for this class. I wouldn't allow elves or dwarves, though- they already have the RK as their little pet class.
OP, I do like the idea quite a bit. Much better than the other new class ideas thrown about these forums.
And men do have access to two limited classes and one exclusive. One of the reasons why I further leaned towards hobbit exclusive. But that does not mean I am closed to the point I would argue that no other races should utilize the class. I am more interested in getting some good constructive feedback that helps build the viability of such an idea.
Thankyou for your overall vote of confidence
Originally Posted by droid
Lore wise it sounds great. Gameplay wise, though, I think its filling up too much rolespace...
Red line is DPS (through DOTs) with some debuffs - thats a Burglar
Yellow line is CC with some debuffs - thats a LM
Blue line is healing and group buffs - thats a Captain
So it seems like you're getting to choose between the best of three worlds. Thats a lot of rolespace that can be filled by a single character. Plus, having debuffs, CC, DOTs, buffs, and heals seems like a lot of utility for one class, even without major burst-damage DPS skills. I'd be worried it would eclipse other classes too much.
Lastly, you have to be careful with adding new buffing classes. Any buffs are going to stack with Captain (and Minstrel) buffs, multiplied by however many people are in your group. There's a limited number of class-based buffs you can have in a game and still be able to keep it balanced.
You dont want to add 5 different buffing classes and have groups aura-stack themselves to God Mode. Conversely, you dont want to require groups to have all 5 different buffing classes just to be strong enough to complete certain content. Honestly, with Captain and Minstrel already in-game, and the minor buffs that some other classes have, I dont know if there's room for any more full-time buffers.
Very valid points indeed. It could create a need for a lot of adjustments, but at the same time group and raid makeups allow for quite the variety of classes and the more support you bring you often sacrifice much needed dps. I agree that perhaps the class could be too versatile, but that is why I brought the raw idea here; to be refined and considered!
Thanks for your valuable input.
Originally Posted by Harbut
I love this idea alot and well thought out! big thumbs up. Slings would be great and a nice big walking staff.
As for poisons I cant see how thats a big stretch of the imagination, hobbits gift with plants and the like Im sure have knowledge of a few toxins for weed and pest control and would certainly know what mushroom were edible and which ones are not....
As for hobbits being all cutey and cuddly and non warlike.....*rolls his eyes*
Go to Brokenborings and have a good look at the statue there and see how unwarlike hobbits are. Not to mention the army of shirefolk who fought at Fields of Fornost...just because hobbits prefer comfort and dont appear warlike doesnt mean they are not.
Not all hobbits are nice people either. The Sackville Baginnses can be seen as greedy, selfish and spiteful.
Lore is all well and good but dont let it blind you
Thanks for the vote of confidence, and I agree that given the right incentives, hobbits could and would use their strengths in the fight for good. The hobbits love the shire and I think would do whatever it took to defend it.
Originally Posted by Vilan
An interesting idea, well thought out. But I have to agree with the others that hobbits poisoning people to death doesn't seem appropriate. Maybe just have them knock monsters out with stun vapours? I think using various types of pipeweed to do things might be a good concept. Pipeweed is already in the game and doesn't really do much, this would be an opportunity to have it be useful.
Good thought. I would like to stress that the hobbits definitely would not utilize poison on good folk, but Sauron is pure evil, and I stand by my reasoning that hobbits would use their strengths to combat evil by whatever means possible.
I also stress that this is a game, and the lore has to be bent sometimes in order to make it work- we all know that.
Originally Posted by Xanben
That's a very very difference idea, the herbalist skirmish soldier is more of a small healer and its a skirmish soldier, most players don't even like skirmishes let alone would be that upset if its name was changed for a new class.
I think that this is an amazing idea, I always felt like the hobbit could use more classes, and this idea is a great lore designed one. You have my vote mate.
Thankyou
Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU
It's not about knowing what's poisonous and what isn't. It's about wanting to use it as a weapon.
Tolkien said that hobbits weren't warlike, so you can roll your eyes all you like. (I suggest you look up what 'warlike' that actually means: fond of war, bellicose, bloody-minded). Poisoning people is an especially brutal act and hobbits were supposed to be, well, gentler than mankind.
But not brutal and murderous; being nasty isn't the same thing as being downright vicious. (Lotho S-B was almost certainly murdered by Wormtongue, who was the real deal when it came to villainy).
I'm not; you just don't seem to have a clue. Look at how the use of poison in war is viewed in real life; it's considered a horror. Then bear in mind that Tolkien actually fought in a war that involved extensive use of chemical weapons, and then try to tell me that casual use of poison by the good guys (and by hobbits, of all people!) could ever be anything other than wildly out of place.
Fair enough, I can understand the viewpoints on this matter. But you have to ask yourself how lore appropriate is a hobbit strapping on heavy armour and shields and standing toe to toe with a troll. I think a hobbit would prefer to stay agile and inflict poison upon the beast to fell it.
Simply, my viewpoint is that the lore would side with this class over many other things already within the game in other classes. Also refer to my above points about the need sometimes to bend things to make a video game work and be fun. We're all here for fun right?
Thankyou for all of the constructive criticism and of course the support and ideas. Let's keep it coming and I would like to ask everyone to remain respectful of one another views and ideas on the matter.
Achereus, Ex-Leader of TDH
April 2007 - January 2012 RIP
Pewpewboomheadshot R10 BA, League of Extraordinary Creeps
You're getting stuck up on the word "poison"....you're not necessarily hitting them with mustard gas and blistering their lungs until they die.
Of all the ways a Hobbit would use to overcome an enemy, this seems like one of the more likely. Many a Hobbit would definitely know from experience which herbs and mushrooms were good to eat or make a tea or smoke or grind up for a spice or medicine, and would know which ones werent, and what'd happen to you if you took the wrong one.
In game terms, that could mean debuffs, or just generally weaken you enough to eventually succumb. If it really bothered you lore-wise, the "herbs" could just be for debuffs and the direct damage ones could be drawn from the weapon and their experience taking care of "pests and vermin and beasties and such" around the Shire, knowing where to strike an opponent.
Plus, look at the Sackville-Bagginses. They're sneaky and conniving and not very brave, I could completely see poison being their weapon of choice if it came down to that. Historically, poisons have not been the weapon of the "brutal and murderous".
Thats what I meant about it fitting Hobbits, lore-wise.
Good argument, thanks for your input. That is along my line of thinking, especially when you think of little hobbits facing off against trolls, huge giants and worms, nasty menacing evil uruks, etc etc. Why WOULDN'T they use what they know best to vanquish these foes despite the morality of it.
The morality of the enemy knows no mercy and would brutally enslave their people and ravish their homelands.
I see we have started quite the debate.
Achereus, Ex-Leader of TDH
April 2007 - January 2012 RIP
Pewpewboomheadshot R10 BA, League of Extraordinary Creeps
Really great idea, compared to most of the "lets have dwarf burglars, yay!" threads here. Well thought out, and I would actually play it, but unfortunately, I doubt we're going to get a new class though. Here's to hoping! /signed
It is an interesting suggestion. Overall, I like it.
It's hard to get past the poison though. The devs have said before (sorry, I don't have a link handy) that poison isn't an option. Burgs don't get to poison their blades, for example. Using toxic plants is pretty similar, sorry.
I like the sling-shot idea; but not the staff really - LMs have staves, why intrude on them more? Why not go with all sling-like weapons (slings, sling-shots, staff-sling, atlatl, sling-staff, spear-thrower, etc)? All of the skill would fit the medium range (like Warden). No melee skills (but lots of skills could be AoE). That's another niche; there aren't a lot of ranged AoE skills.
The fear/stun idea is great too; I love the idea of throwing bait to "push" a melee mob away from you - where it could be stunned or damaged. So instead of trapping and moving away like the Hunter, the Herbalist would repel and and hold his ground. He could even have noxious fume effects that would work like anti-traps - instead of rooting a mob, it would keep mobs away from the area.
Using one of those effects on/near the tank would be a bad move, but an herbalist could save a minstrel who gets in trouble by tossing a flask at his feet, and any mobs on the minstrel would be forced to flee the area (10m or whatever).
I think it would be better to focus on AoE debuffs and less on buffs (mostly). And less on in-combat healing (so as not to compete with the other classes). Why not have lots of curative effects (cure poison/wound/disease), but only out-of-combat? The buffs you do get could focus on preventing those same effects. Again, out-of-combat, but with long (10 minute+) durations. Going to fight spiders? Buff against poison. Etc.
I agree it fits hobbits best. Elves would be even less inclined to use nature to hurt things. Men, I could go either way. Dwarves? Could work if you included explosives, instead of just natural fume-based AoEs.
Anyway, very good idea. Most of the resistance to it comes from terminology I think. Although Herbalist is a good and fitting name, maybe call it something else. And instead of buffs? Call them protections. Instead of poison/toxin? Call them noxious mixtures.
So overall - a medium range class with very little melee, but lots of AoE "cc" effects. Focusing on keeping that range by using noxious fumes to repel melee attackers. Long duration HoTs, curatives, and preventatives (out of combat), and maybe even an out-of-combat rez (smelling salts).
I agree that poison should only stun/root enemies. Even though Sauron's forces are evil, doesn't meant the Free Peoples have to stoop as low as poisons and such, like Goblins. But really, a name change is warranted. Not sure what to call it, but here's my idea for some adjustments to you EXCELLENT idea: Does damage with knives, clubs, and hammers. Uses plants and the like to stun enemies and rejuvenate allies. Main buff type is power regen, but still has a couple of heals. Power would be more realistic of a heal-type, because there would be more plants that could give energy to allies then heal them. Main dps would be melee attacks supported by stuns, roots, buffs, and heals. Plus, for a ranged attack, hobbits would have their "stoop for a stone" skill as something to draw the enemy to you to start fighting. Also, they could use bows, but not crossbows.
Here's a couple of skills i thought would fit the class type: (I'm not putting amounts or power costs on because it depends on the level, and i have no idea what decent power costs and such would be)
Name: Satisfying Herb Description: You consume a soothing plant, alleviating much pain. Range: 30m idnuction: 3 seconds Removes up to three disease or wound effects, with a maximum strength of __(depending on level) from the target. This skill can be used on either yourself or another
Name: Envigorating poultice Description: With a quick combination of plants and herbs, you restore your energy Range: 20m induction: 1 second. Restores ____ Power (Again, depending on level)
Name: Fragrant Spices Desription: The sweet, relaxing smell of the spice relieves you of your sorrow at the cost of attention to battle. Radius: 10m induction: 2 seconds +200 Fear resistance for 20 seconds. +10% induction time. Removes All Fear effects on self, removes up to 3 for others in radius with a maximum strength of ___.
Hopefully, if such a thing as the Hobbit Herbalist were to be developed, there would be an attempt to somehow connect it with canon. Moving away from canon is inevitable. But the measure of that dissassociaton can be fun for some, and ridiculous to others. Some players don't realize it but that kind of stuff does make the game less fun for some people, even though many would enjoy it.
My main concern is that this would be the only class that centres around making things, as far as I'm aware. Does the poisoner need to walk alongside the assassin? Must they always be one and the same?
But I must say...
Originally Posted by droid
You're getting stuck up on the word "poison"....you're not necessarily hitting them with mustard gas and blistering their lungs until they die.
Historically, poisons have not been the weapon of the "brutal and murderous".
droid, I think you're view of poison is excessively kinder than most peoples. Although your other points were good, if such a class were to pass, and sort of gives credence to Hobbits being adventurous enough to contribute more than four hobbits in the battle against Sauron.
droid, I think you're view of poison is excessively kinder than most peoples. Although your other points were good, if such a class were to pass, and sort of gives credence to Hobbits being adventurous enough to contribute more than four hobbits in the battle against Sauron.
To be fair, the OP used the words "poison", "toxin", and "poultice", so you can really take your pick which one suits your aesthetic sensibilities best. When I see "poison" used in this sense, I dont necessarily think only immediately lethal, lab-synthesized poisons, but "poison" in the sense of botulism (food poisoning), mycetism (mushroom poisoning), etc., where its almost never lethal but always unpleasant and debilitating.
Ie, your Hobbit has been wandering through the woods, snacking on the local fungi enough times to have learned that a certain kind of mushroom makes you really sick and dizzy if you kick up the spores and breathe them in. If he knows there's Orcs all around, he might carefully stick a few into a bag to carry with him, just in case.
That's a lot more "folksy" kind of knowledge than, say, a Lore-master might acquire, and IMO very fitting the pastoral Hobbit mindset. I'm not saying the Hobbits are studying nature like scientists or even alchemists or poisoners, they're just in touch with the land around them as people often are when they draw their livelihood from it. If a Hobbit had set out to help the battle against Sauron (which all our characters, by definition, have), that seems like a very Hobbity way to go about it.
You're getting stuck up on the word "poison"....you're not necessarily hitting them with mustard gas and blistering their lungs until they die.
It doesn't matter what it actually does, it's the principle of the thing.
Plus, look at the Sackville-Bagginses. They're sneaky and conniving and not very brave, I could completely see poison being their weapon of choice if it came down to that. Historically, poisons have not been the weapon of the "brutal and murderous".
Sorry, what? Poisons have always been a weapon of the brutal and murderous. It's brutal (cruel, cold-blooded, ruthless and unfeeling) to slip poison into someone's food, for example, for them to die a slow and horrid death. As for the S-Bs, they didn't kill anybody: they were hobbits, and while Lotho S-B was a quisling he wasn't a murderer. Hobbits didn't act just like little Men, they were a gentler sort altogether so even when they were being nasty, by hobbit standards, it was limited to having people locked up. So no, I can't imagine the S-Bs turning to the use of poison any more than any other hobbit would. That was why I mentioned Wormtongue: he was a real villain, I can very readily imagine him using poison (I think he'd been slowly poisoning Theoden, to enfeeble him and cloud his mind) but the crucial thing is that he was a Man. And in any case, talking about its use by those on the other side of the conflict hardly makes a case for the good guys using it!
Thats what I meant about it fitting Hobbits, lore-wise.
Oh, I know what you meant, I just don't agree with it.
Regarding the hobbits using poison to harm their foes not being lore-fitting... we do have Hobbit Burglars. Really, the best known hobbit made his fame as a burglar. And burglar's more or less main attack is backstab. Now, how many hobbits who do that in the books can the community find?
As for the class idea...
Like many have said, it's well thought out and you've written your suggestion in a good manner. I'm finding it appealing, giving the farmer-hobbits a different way to use their lovingly tended crops. Perchance this class would rely on pipeweed and flowers, turning them from mere funny little notations to actually being useful (other than as a source of dyes and rp).
Ie, your Hobbit has been wandering through the woods, snacking on the local fungi enough times to have learned that a certain kind of mushroom makes you really sick and dizzy if you kick up the spores and breathe them in. If he knows there's Orcs all around, he might carefully stick a few into a bag to carry with him, just in case.
The Shire is, in point of fact, supposed to be a nice but mundane place, a little England. Hardly the sort of place to start sprouting oh-so-convenient fantasy mushrooms of that sort. This isn't the sort of generic fantasy (like WoW, say) where you can go casually inventing things like that.
The Shire is, in point of fact, supposed to be a nice but mundane place, a little England. Hardly the sort of place to start sprouting oh-so-convenient fantasy mushrooms of that sort. This isn't the sort of generic fantasy (like WoW, say) where you can go casually inventing things like that.
Mushrooms in any country can kill you if you eat the wrong ones. There are around 10 poisonous mushroom types native to the UK - some of which can kill, others which debuff you in the form of stomach problems. While none of them have poisonous spores, there are also mushrooms native to the UK that do release spores - imaginatively, the most famous is the Puffball!
Given that, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to get to what droid imagined.
In response to the idea, I'm neither here nor there on a new class, but adding a new one was to be considered, I'd hope suggestions thought through like this one would be top of the list.
The only poisoning hobbit I can see, is one that ate too many onions and beans and has become rather flatulent. How's that for a fear and poison AoE?!?!
Hobbits know much about edible plants and how to grow them. A Hobbit's view to using their crops as weapons would be to throw a tater to your head or smack you with a leek.
... we do have Hobbit Burglars. Really, the best known hobbit made his fame as a burglar. And burglar's more or less main attack is backstab. Now, how many hobbits who do that in the books can the community find?
Well, there is Meriadoc, who back-stabbed the Lord of the Nazgul. I would think that would count. :P
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Originally Posted by Dark_Toad
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You don't just take the persons very idea and use it raw. You obviously add some changes to ideas and such. Only the very detailed and specific ideas do that sort of thing
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