Thread: Champion, Guardian, or Warden?

Basically, I have a level 18 Woman Loremaster Explorer, and a Level 21 Elf Runekeeper Tinker

They're great characters, I love playing as them, but sometimes, I want to stop worrying about how my poor squishies are going to get stabbed in the gut. Since I only have one more character slot, I want to play a frontline class.

I don't, however, want to play a Burglar. Burglar is kinda... monotonous early on. Stealth, sneak up behind an enemy, surprise attack. Repeat. It's a great class, but right now I just don't have the right kind of patience to deal with it.

I also don't want to play as a Hobbit. I have nothing against hobbits. They're easily a great race. What I hate... is the Shire. I don't get lost in the Shire. I am lost in the Shire. So many NPCs... so many quests... so much running all over the place... makes one tempted to use that 24 hour horse whistle early, but it seems like a waste to use it in a prologue zone... argh.

If it weren't for the Shire, I'd easily play a hobbit. And bearing in mind, I already automatically skip any quest that involves nosy/hungry hobbits.

So, yeah. I'm desiring a frontline fighter. But I'm having a hard time making a choice. Do I want to play as the Captain, and lead the party/my herald to victory? Or the Guardian, so I can stalwartly take attacks and attack back in kind? Or perhaps the Warden, which, I'm sad to say, I still know very little about, especially since I haven't really given one a fair shot since the revamp - it's probably my second least played class (Champion being least played)

EDIT: Dangit, I forgot that this forum doesn't have strikethrough :-/ also, changed Champion to Captain because Champion is no longer on the table.

Originally Posted by Zachski

Basically, I have a level 18 Woman Loremaster Explorer, and a Level 21 Elf Runekeeper Tinker

They're great characters, I love playing as them, but sometimes, I want to stop worrying about how my poor squishies are going to get stabbed in the gut. Since I only have one more character slot, I want to play a frontline class.

I don't, however, want to play a Burglar. Burglar is kinda... monotonous early on. Stealth, sneak up behind an enemy, surprise attack. Repeat. It's a great class, but right now I just don't have the right kind of patience to deal with it.

I also don't want to play as a Hobbit. I have nothing against hobbits. They're easily a great race. What I hate... is the Shire. I don't get lost in the Shire. I am lost in the Shire. So many NPCs... so many quests... so much running all over the place... makes one tempted to use that 24 hour horse whistle early, but it seems like a waste to use it in a prologue zone... argh.

If it weren't for the Shire, I'd easily play a hobbit. And bearing in mind, I already automatically skip any quest that involves nosy/hungry hobbits.

So, yeah. I'm desiring a frontline fighter. But I'm having a hard time making a choice. Do I want to play as the Champion and rend all of my enemies to pieces? Or the Guardian, so I can stalwartly take attacks and attack back in kind? Or perhaps the Warden, which, I'm sad to say, I still know very little about, especially since I haven't really given one a fair shot since the revamp - it's probably my second least played class (Champion being least played)

You forgot captain as a nonsquishy, very soloable class (and great in groups).

Wardens are more of a 'main' toon; with the complexity of gambits, if you take a break, you may very well forget the gambit combinations. It's not necessarily a 'drop-in' kind of class for the impatient. They're an "advanced" class for a reason.

Keep in mind that even though champs wear heavy armour, their stances in favor of DPS can essentially reduce them to glass cannons as well, unless you trait some tanky things.

Guards are the opposite of the champ in that regard; very resilient, low DPS, but you can trait some damage-y things.

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Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell

Yeah, I forgot to address Captain.

I suppose I could play one, but at the same time, I actually have a level 10 one on another server. I don't know why, but... Captains are kinda hard to play. (Not hard as in "OMG I die all the time", but hard as in "So... slow... can't... talk... normally...")

Maybe I'm playing them wrong. Also, being restricted to Man is kind of annoying, even though I like playing as Man, I also like options. But, eh, gotta keep what lore we have as intact as we can, I guess.

Also, fair point about Wardens. I was actually kinda leaning towards them... I mean, I suppose I also could just take the time to re-learn gambits, but at the same time, they are kinda slow, too.

And actually, I was also leaning towards taking Champion off of the options list, and now I think I will. I want to play a class that can actually take a hit.

So, replace Champion with Captain then... *goes to edit first post*

EDIT: I should clarify... I want to stick to one server. Namely due to the fact that there's a serious glitch between my internet and Turbine's servers. If I ever get disconnected, my computer ever overheats, or even if I simply exit out of the game, I can't reconnect to Turbine's servers for a random amount of time because my internet refuses to connect to Turbine's "Logon Server". So, hopping servers is no longer a feasible thing for me at this time.

This only happens with Turbine's servers. The other F2P MMOs that I play I can reconnect to just fine.

So make a hobbit guard, run over to Archet and do the Man starter area instead. (I agree, I don't quest in the Shire, despite having two hobbits, I also don't quest in Loth.)

Don't play a captain, you already have a lore-master and don't want to do the burg support class thing. If you think burg play is routine with all it's variety, captains have no variety to their skills at all to start whatsoever. Heck, even in Moria now, it's the exact same routine over and over.

Warden isn't even on the list, folks who know they want to play warden's do, it's not a class to just randomly play.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Wait, that's actually feasible?

Hum... let's see... ride from Michel Delving to West Bree... run down to Archet, grabbing all of the stable master locations along the way... I guess that's possible.

It feels a bit... cheaty though? I dunno.

Actually, that makes me think. Is there, like, "the lost wanderer's guide to the shire" or something? I dunno, haha.

My problem with Burg isn't variety. My problem is, well, heaving to stealth every time I attack the enemy, making sure I sneak up behind them so they don't detect me. It's a lot of unnecessary steps to begin each battle. I suppose I don't HAVE to, but in a sense, I feel obligated to. Lore Master, though, you only really need Sign of Power: Command to prepare for combat, and maybe Blinding Flash, too, depending on how close enemies are to each other and how likely they are to assist each other... and you can do that from a distance without having to be behind the enemy.

Captain is, to me, the opposite of a Lore master. Buffs and melee as opposed to debuffs and magi-- tactical damage. So it's still viable.

Also, Warden is still on the list. Sorry that I don't meet your standards, but I'm keeping it on the list because I choose to keep it on the list.

Originally Posted by Zachski

Yeah, I forgot to address Captain.

I suppose I could play one, but at the same time, I actually have a level 10 one on another server. I don't know why, but... Captains are kinda hard to play. (Not hard as in "OMG I die all the time", but hard as in "So... slow... can't... talk... normally...")

Maybe I'm playing them wrong. Also, being restricted to Man is kind of annoying, even though I like playing as Man, I also like options. But, eh, gotta keep what lore we have as intact as we can, I guess.

Also, fair point about Wardens. I was actually kinda leaning towards them... I mean, I suppose I also could just take the time to re-learn gambits, but at the same time, they are kinda slow, too.

And actually, I was also leaning towards taking Champion off of the options list, and now I think I will. I want to play a class that can actually take a hit.

So, replace Champion with Captain then... *goes to edit first post*

EDIT: I should clarify... I want to stick to one server. Namely due to the fact that there's a serious glitch between my internet and Turbine's servers. If I ever get disconnected, my computer ever overheats, or even if I simply exit out of the game, I can't reconnect to Turbine's servers for a random amount of time because my internet refuses to connect to Turbine's "Logon Server". So, hopping servers is no longer a feasible thing for me at this time.

This only happens with Turbine's servers. The other F2P MMOs that I play I can reconnect to just fine.

Captains are a pet-optional class compared to LM, but the pets can be quite useful when used and traited properly. Still, you typically won't see captains really shine until later levels. They are indeed slow with the usual DPS-vs-survivability trade-offs. They're a utility class, however, much like the burg, and some people just can't be bothered with it. In general, it's the kind of class immediately attractive only to people who're more interested in hybrid/support play.

I'd say, go guard too.

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Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell

Originally Posted by Zachski

Wait, that's actually feasible?

Hum... let's see... ride from Michel Delving to West Bree... run down to Archet, grabbing all of the stable master locations along the way... I guess that's possible.

It feels a bit... cheaty though? I dunno.

Actually, that makes me think. Is there, like, "the lost wanderer's guide to the shire" or something? I dunno, haha.

Hobbits can be more adventurous than other races. Maybe. We're talking about individualism, though, so you can easily think of a background that fits with the lore. Probably. It makes a lot more sense than all the Elves running around, honestly. But yes, easy enough to get to Combe from Michel Delving, at least I think the starter stables are all automatically connected now. It's been a long time since I rolled a new toon.

My problem with Burg isn't variety. My problem is, well, heaving to stealth every time I attack the enemy, making sure I sneak up behind them so they don't detect me. It's a lot of unnecessary steps to begin each battle. I suppose I don't HAVE to, but in a sense, I feel obligated to. Lore Master, though, you only really need Sign of Power: Command to prepare for combat, and maybe Blinding Flash, too, depending on how close enemies are to each other and how likely they are to assist each other... and you can do that from a distance without having to be behind the enemy.

Burgs do not need to be in stealth all the time. There is a stance--err, thing, I forget what it's called, which blocks stealth but greatly reduces the cd on Riddle, an excellent cc. Group-friendly, thus, and also eases multi-pulls.

Captain is, to me, the opposite of a Lore master. Buffs and melee as opposed to debuffs and magi-- tactical damage. So it's still viable.

Also, Warden is still on the list. Sorry that I don't meet your standards, but I'm keeping it on the list because I choose to keep it on the list.

Ultimately, the right choice is whatever you choose and enjoy. What anyone else says can only offer additional perspective. I've never played LM so I can't comment about that. If the Warden still interests you, try it out--the class's survivability is rather legendary. Your memory for gambits may be better than mine, at least!

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Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell

Why so quick to dismiss champions? If you want survivability, champs have an entire trait line devoted to tanking and survival. Furthermore, if you choose to trait for survival, champs still deal a very respectable amount of DPS. Even in the champs so called "glass cannon" mode, champs are anything but squishy. You cut through mobs like butter, and with heavy armour and morale bubbles, you're still quite survivable. If you want a front line fighter, champs are the way to go.

Originally Posted by Zachski

So, yeah. I'm desiring a frontline fighter. But I'm having a hard time making a choice. Do I want to play as the Captain, and lead the party/my herald to victory? Or the Guardian, so I can stalwartly take attacks and attack back in kind? Or perhaps the Warden, which, I'm sad to say, I still know very little about, especially since I haven't really given one a fair shot since the revamp - it's probably my second least played class (Champion being least played)

EDIT: Dangit, I forgot that this forum doesn't have strikethrough :-/ also, changed Champion to Captain because Champion is no longer on the table.

Well, part of this depends on what your long-term goals are. Are you mainly a solo player that occasionally groups? Or have designs on end-game raiding? The Captain class, is not necessarily the designated leader of the fellowhip, and their role is indeed, largely support. For a Guardian or tanking warden you need to know that you'll be taking on a large responsibility role in fellowhip/raid play. In a fellowship, the tank generally controls the pace of play and what you're fighting, when. Champs can tank if need be, but generally are free to dps away. They may, however, with hunters or DPS rune keepers, be assigned the task of target assist.

If you have the time, pick one and play it to a high enough level to decide if you want to keep it or not. Then buy another slot and/or consign the toon to deletion if not for you.

Originally Posted by Trilwych

Captains are a pet-optional class compared to LM, but the pets can be quite useful when used and traited properly. Still, you typically won't see captains really shine until later levels. They are indeed slow with the usual DPS-vs-survivability trade-offs. They're a utility class, however, much like the burg, and some people just can't be bothered with it. In general, it's the kind of class immediately attractive only to people who're more interested in hybrid/support play.

I'd say, go guard too.

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Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell

I've actually heard that there are issues with the Guardian. Like... OP stance sucks up too much Power, and Guardians are only good at the tank role, not good at any secondary roles.

Been doing research while waiting for replies in this thread. Still not sure.

Originally Posted by Trilwych

Hobbits can be more adventurous than other races. Maybe. We're talking about individualism, though, so you can easily think of a background that fits with the lore. Probably. It makes a lot more sense than all the Elves running around, honestly. But yes, easy enough to get to Combe from Michel Delving, at least I think the starter stables are all automatically connected now. It's been a long time since I rolled a new toon.

I don't remember being able to go to Combe from Michel Delving, and Archet doesn't have a Stable-Master, I think...

That being said, it's funny how when a Hobbit decides to become adventurous... hoo boy, they become adventurous.

(As for the whole "Elves and Hobbits" running around, gameplay and story segregation )

Burgs do not need to be in stealth all the time. There is a stance--err, thing, I forget what it's called, which blocks stealth but greatly reduces the cd on Riddle, an excellent cc. Group-friendly, thus, and also eases multi-pulls.

Gambler?

I'm not in stealth all the time... eh, I dunno, I'm just sick of going stealth backstab.

Ultimately, the right choice is whatever you choose and enjoy. What anyone else says can only offer additional perspective. I've never played LM so I can't comment about that. If the Warden still interests you, try it out--the class's survivability is rather legendary. Your memory for gambits may be better than mine, at least!

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Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell

I'm definitely leaning towards Warden at this point. Maybe even Hobbit Warden.

Originally Posted by Himodhur

Why so quick to dismiss champions? If you want survivability, champs have an entire trait line devoted to tanking and survival. Furthermore, if you choose to trait for survival, champs still deal a very respectable amount of DPS. Even in the champs so called "glass cannon" mode, champs are anything but squishy. You cut through mobs like butter, and with heavy armour and morale bubbles, you're still quite survivable. If you want a front line fighter, champs are the way to go.

Because I'm not a fan of the class, in all honesty.

Since the latest revamp, the elf starting area around Celondim is one of the better organized in the game. Flows well, sends you from hub to hub and is on the cheap swift route. If you made a hobbit, you could take your first mail bag for the run speed buff to Michel Delving and hop a swift to Bree, Celondim or Thorins.

While it's true that Warden is a tough class to play casually, you will eventually develop a sort of muscle memory for the gambits you use most often. It does depend on what you want to do at end game though. I like my warden because she's great to solo and can grind through things that would wilt most of my other classes. I have no ambitions to tank, so I rarely group with her.

On the other hand, if you want to group at end-game, Captains are always desired in groups and raids. Having a well-played Captain along just makes any group better and any run go more smoothly. They are a bit tedious as soloers; it takes a long time for them to develop much in the way of dps. They can do it and usually survive pretty well, it just takes longer than for a real dps class.

Guardians are expected to tank when in any sort of group, so if that's not your ambition, making a Guard is probably not a great idea. They hardly ever die, but they're also not a fast dps class, especially in early levels. If you want a sturdy solo character, Wardens kill a bit faster and to me at least, seem more interesting to play.

I actually don't mind the concept of tanking.

My only issue is what I'll do when I'm not tanking for the purpose of keeping enemy attention. Since I do tend to prefer soloing instead of relying on a party, but still wish to be able to party when I need to.

I'm torn between Warden and Guardian now. Hmm. Definitely want to play a tanky class.

Originally Posted by Zachski

I've actually heard that there are issues with the Guardian. Like... OP stance sucks up too much Power, and Guardians are only good at the tank role, not good at any secondary roles.

It is true that the OP sucks some power, but I usually play with OP while soloing since it is much faster to kill mobs and don't have big problems with power. If you want survivability and like to tank, go for the guard.

So, OP works out well while soloing... hmm...

Okay, I'm going to roll up a Guardian then. I don't think I want to do Dwarf, though, so... Man or Elf or Hobbit...

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm unsure again =_= Guardian, Warden, or Captain...?

Originally Posted by Zachski

So, OP works out well while soloing... hmm...

Okay, I'm going to roll up a Guardian then. I don't think I want to do Dwarf, though, so... Man or Elf or Hobbit...

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm unsure again =_= Guardian, Warden, or Captain...?

So you only have one character slot left.

It would be easy to say--just try one, and if you don't like it, delete it and try another. But I will add here that some classes don't "mature" until later, so only playing like 20 levels isn't a good indication for a given class's true capabilities.

Aaaaand, that said, if a class's general gameplay doesn't interest you within those first 20 or whatever levels, then it's probably not worth investing past the initial hook phase. A good example is the warden--once you comprehend the gambit system, you can extrapolate the more complex abilities that a warden will gain in later levels and could decide if you're up for that. It's much less obvious with captain where the skills vary across all types--damage, buff, heal, threat, utility, pets, etc.--but you can get some idea by reading the class traits and skills on various updated sites (LotRO Wiki).

If you're still unsure, just roll one and don't invest heavily in its gear/crafting/etc. until you get past the initial hook lowbie phase and decide that you truly enjoy playing it and want to go end-game (or something).

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Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell

Okay, I'm going to remove Captain from the list and narrow it down to Warden vs. Guardian.

To help me decide, I want to ask a few questions.

What are some things about Guardian that are interesting?

What are some things about Warden that are interesting?

What is it like to tank as a Guardian? As a Warden? What is it like to solo?

I know that Warden appears to be the FOTM for tanking classes, but FOTM is not something that generally affects my choices. The only time a class's power level is taken into account is for when a class is underpowered to the point where it has trouble joining groups in later content.

My policy is... solo early on, to get used to the class. Get used to how it works. Then at later levels, when the content starts to get more difficult for at-level, start to join more parties.

I also don't send money between my characters, nor do I buy equipment for one character with another character's money. Either the equipment is crafted, or bought from NPCs or other players by the character who needs the equipment. I don't know why I'm like this. But my characters have to stand on their own, financially. It feels like I'm cheating if I don't do this.

(And for the record, this only applies to me. I have no problem with others doing it.)

If you are down to the two, make one of each on another server and play a bit of each of them.

The guardian is a reactive class, the warden is the exact opposite, depending on your mind/personality and how you think, one will fit you very well, the other won't be as comfy.

PS: On level content actually gets much easier as you go up in levels. Meanwhile, if you don't group at lower levels, to learn your grouping skills and form a good foundation with them, typically you'll be more lost how to effectively group at higher levels. I have yet to meet someone who wasn't regretting avoiding grouping at lower levels if they did, and didn't feel they'd be more effective now.



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by Zachski

Okay, I'm going to remove Captain from the list and narrow it down to Warden vs. Guardian.

To help me decide, I want to ask a few questions.

What are some things about Guardian that are interesting?

What are some things about Warden that are interesting?

What is it like to tank as a Guardian? As a Warden? What is it like to solo?

I know that Warden appears to be the FOTM for tanking classes, but FOTM is not something that generally affects my choices. The only time a class's power level is taken into account is for when a class is underpowered to the point where it has trouble joining groups in later content.

My policy is... solo early on, to get used to the class. Get used to how it works. Then at later levels, when the content starts to get more difficult for at-level, start to join more parties.

I also don't send money between my characters, nor do I buy equipment for one character with another character's money. Either the equipment is crafted, or bought from NPCs or other players by the character who needs the equipment. I don't know why I'm like this. But my characters have to stand on their own, financially. It feels like I'm cheating if I don't do this.

(And for the record, this only applies to me. I have no problem with others doing it.)

Interesting about Guardian? I have a level 50 something stuck in moria. Have not been able to go back after rolling a Warden. Like the captain I find the gameplay so slow. You can literally count the seconds between skill clicks.

Intersting about the Warden? Gambits, and speed of gameplay are very fast. Fastest in the game. You have to be on your toes and constantly paying attention. Self healing while playing solo makes you indestructible and the most survivable solo class out there. If you are using recklessness stance while soloing the combat pace is very, very fast. Not dps wise mind you, Wardens are only average dps wise, just the pace.

Tanking as a Warden is hectic and more difficualt than a Guardian. Due to mitigation differences Wardens are more succeptible to big hits and take more spike damage than guardians, making them harder to heal in tougher content. Self heals help but take time to heal you, spike damage is instant. Because of this, for harder content, a Guardian is generally still preferred over a Warden

Originally Posted by Zachski

Okay, I'm going to remove Captain from the list and narrow it down to Warden vs. Guardian.

To help me decide, I want to ask a few questions.

What are some things about Guardian that are interesting?

What are some things about Warden that are interesting?

What is it like to tank as a Guardian? As a Warden? What is it like to solo?

I know that Warden appears to be the FOTM for tanking classes, but FOTM is not something that generally affects my choices. The only time a class's power level is taken into account is for when a class is underpowered to the point where it has trouble joining groups in later content.

My policy is... solo early on, to get used to the class. Get used to how it works. Then at later levels, when the content starts to get more difficult for at-level, start to join more parties.

I also don't send money between my characters, nor do I buy equipment for one character with another character's money. Either the equipment is crafted, or bought from NPCs or other players by the character who needs the equipment. I don't know why I'm like this. But my characters have to stand on their own, financially. It feels like I'm cheating if I don't do this.

(And for the record, this only applies to me. I have no problem with others doing it.)

I've been playing a Warden for over 3 years now, IMO it's the best class there is. the Warden is a somewhat complex class, not hard though especially if you focus on the class. however, if you do plan on tanking as Warden start early, Wardens by nature require more effort then Guards for them to do things right, now while you can figure things out even if you only start tanking at 75 it'll be that much harder.

Wardens can, especially since the revamp, fill 3 roles at the switch of a stance, melee DPS, ranged DPS and tanking, they won't be as good as they can be when not traited properly but can still perform very passably. as far as solo survivability Wardens are kings, those who are patient enough (not me :]) have been know to solo full felowship content (there is a a reason why Riddermark has a kinship that used to be all Warden called "...Is A Small Fellowship".

Yeah, I'm going to give Warden a go.

Really, though, I hate how I overthink everything.

EDIT: Okay, playing for 20 minutes and I already feel sick of this class. I get the feeling toughing it out won't endear me anymore to this class.

So, logically, I'd go over and try Guardian anyways, right? Nope. Game decided to disconnect me, right as I was actually starting to play. Which means I'm not going to be able to reconnect for about an hour or so.

I hate this. Does anyone know of a potential fix for this thing?

Originally Posted by Zachski

Wait, that's actually feasible?


My problem with Burg isn't variety. My problem is, well, heaving to stealth every time I attack the enemy, making sure I sneak up behind them so they don't detect me. It's a lot of unnecessary steps to begin each battle. I suppose I don't HAVE to, but in

From this statement I would say roll a champ. When you solo with on a champ its really about jumping into the battle and slaughtering hoards of enemy before they kill you.

It is a nice break from my squishy classes, I just roll in and crack skulls.

I've seen wardens do amazing things and I'll probably level one but I've also seen them get destroyed in end game raids.

Originally Posted by Zachski

Yeah, I'm going to give Warden a go.

Really, though, I hate how I overthink everything.

EDIT: Okay, playing for 20 minutes and I already feel sick of this class. I get the feeling toughing it out won't endear me anymore to this class.

So, logically, I'd go over and try Guardian anyways, right? Nope. Game decided to disconnect me, right as I was actually starting to play. Which means I'm not going to be able to reconnect for about an hour or so.

I hate this. Does anyone know of a potential fix for this thing?

RJFerret put it most succinctly for the main 'feel' difference between the two--the guardian is reactive and the warden is 'active'. That probably explains why it's generally easier to drop back into guard after a break than it is warden. In either case, whatever fits your playstyle/personality...

You'll have to post separately to the technical support forum for the connection thing, though.

Edit: As others have stated, champ can be less squishy depending on how you trait and play it, but if you already have a champ alt and rarely touch it, that's telling too.

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Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell

Maybe I should just play a Captain after all :-/

I want to play a class that can take a hit. I'm kinda annoyed by how Runekeeper can, after two battles, have a significant chunk in his health. Same for my Lore Master, though she doesn't have the problem to the same degree - however, she can't handle crowds real well, probably due to PEBCAK.

I don't know what I want anymore.

My general impression from what you've said is that you should try the Warden to level 20 or so, whenever it is that they get their 3-long gambits. At that point you should definitely know whether you like it or not. If you want to play a Hobbit just ride from MD to Celondim and pretend you're an elf for a while.

Now then, my main is a Guard so let me address your guard questions. If you'd like to approach things almost entirely opposite from the way you do on your LM or RK then Guard may be for you. Even when soloing a guard you actually want to have multiple mobs attacking you because that gives you more opportunities for block and parry responses - which are the lifeblood of a Guard.

OverPower does suck down quite a bit of power. If I'm soloing in OP I stock up on cheap vendor food with OCPR and that helps significantly. I have gone OP a few times in groups (easy or over-levelled content) and it definitely causes power problems unless you've got a Captain traited for power recovery or a LM willing to keep you topped off. Interestingly I think ROI actually boosted our non-OP dps somewhat, but it takes a full block chain to do much damage, which is several rather slow attacks. The advantage of OP is that you can front-load a bunch of damage with fast skills that recover fast enough that they're almost always ready as your run to the next mob. There are some Guards in the forums who really love OP and have posted some pretty hefty DPS, but it takes an extreme build to do it - it's going to be especially hard if you're not helping craft with your other characters.

I have a Captain holding at level 25 that's waiting in line to be leveled (after my RK) but I actually really loved her so far. At that point her and her herald do much more damage than my Guard did at that level. Something about the ebb and flow of playing a Captain seems to appeal to me greatly.

If you ever do decide to tackle the Shire my recommendation is to use the mail delivery as your guide. Finish every quest in an area unless it seems to take you really far away and then do the mail run to the next location. I ignore the Lobelia quest chain and the pie runs. There's a lot of running around in Tuckborough that I ignore as well.

Originally Posted by Zachski

I don't know what I want anymore.

All of the heavies have greater survivability compared to the squishies (with variance depending on playstyle and skill, of course), but it really comes down to "You just have to try it." Good luck.

P.S.: Like your sig.

__________
Crit crafting & the RNG | Dumb noob things we've done in LotRO...
"Be not so eager to advance that you fail to experience the moment, in life and in all things." -Deluros, Rivendell

I decided to stick with Warden for a bit longer, finally being able to log in again.

...And basically not twenty minutes after starting to play, my damn laptop overheats. I hate summer. So much.

And yes, I have a setup designed to keep the laptop cool. Apparently, it didn't help. I'm going to try tweaking it a bit, maybe I messed something up.

I do have to wonder what the point of Defensive Bash (the Shield Shield one) is, considering it doesn't raise defense like it did before.

Also, yes, I like my sig, too it was a motto I spontaneously came up with after seeing the bazillionth post saying that all elves were female.

Originally Posted by Zachski

I do have to wonder what the point of Defensive Bash (the Shield Shield one) is, considering it doesn't raise defense like it did before.

In Recklessnes (lvl 10) it should increase your physical mastery. In Determination (lvl 20) it should increase your block rating. In Assailment (lvl 30) it should decrease threat.

Originally Posted by Zachski

Wait, that's actually feasible?

Hum... let's see... ride from Michel Delving to West Bree... run down to Archet, grabbing all of the stable master locations along the way... I guess that's possible.

It feels a bit... cheaty though? I dunno.

Actually, that makes me think. Is there, like, "the lost wanderer's guide to the shire" or something? I dunno, haha.

My problem with Burg isn't variety. My problem is, well, heaving to stealth every time I attack the enemy, making sure I sneak up behind them so they don't detect me. It's a lot of unnecessary steps to begin each battle. I suppose I don't HAVE to, but in a sense, I feel obligated to. Lore Master, though, you only really need Sign of Power: Command to prepare for combat, and maybe Blinding Flash, too, depending on how close enemies are to each other and how likely they are to assist each other... and you can do that from a distance without having to be behind the enemy.

Captain is, to me, the opposite of a Lore master. Buffs and melee as opposed to debuffs and magi-- tactical damage. So it's still viable.

Also, Warden is still on the list. Sorry that I don't meet your standards, but I'm keeping it on the list because I choose to keep it on the list.

Cheaty? Naah. It's lore friendly at least, there are a lot of Hobbits in Bree-Land.
I would recommend a Guardian, they're survivable to the point that I can take 2 signature mobs without too much effort on my level 45. DPS is slow, to say the least, but it's a fun class, and its always good, and dependent, in group play as well as solo.

I like your signature too. +rep for a signature? sure, why not.

Originally Posted by danno8

In Recklessnes (lvl 10) it should increase your physical mastery. In Determination (lvl 20) it should increase your block rating. In Assailment (lvl 30) it should decrease threat.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense now. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Boblet1

Cheaty? Naah. It's lore friendly at least, there are a lot of Hobbits in Bree-Land.
I would recommend a Guardian, they're survivable to the point that I can take 2 signature mobs without too much effort on my level 45. DPS is slow, to say the least, but it's a fun class, and its always good, and dependent, in group play as well as solo.

I like your signature too. +rep for a signature? sure, why not.

I'm tempted to switch over to Guardian from Warden, but I'm not sure. Level 20 generally takes at least three days to get to, which to me is a lot of time to invest in a character to simply try it out.

I think I'll get Warden to at least level 11 (so that I've played through level 10) before making a call on it.

Also, thanks for the rep

I only have brief experience with Champion and Warden (only played them to 24 out of curiousity and took the points of the starting areas...the character slot was determined for a rune-keeper).
Champ was definitely too boring for me, it's all about devestating mobs with ridiculous amounts of damage, not too surprising but still didn't meet my expectations.

I also knew the warden wasn't going to be a perfect fit, but the concept is at least interesting and unique. But too much "interactive memory game" for me, plus funny noise ^^
But I can imagine giving it another try eventually.

My Guardian is now 51, at first it was alright, nice skills and stuff died reasonably fast despite 1h+shield. But towards level 40, it took longer and longer to kill stuff, and after a few mobs you need to regenerate power. So I switched to OP and damage is good, power usage is okay, you still have a lot of morale, so survivability is also okay, but gameplay is downright boring to me. Few skills with pretty much fixed order.
I think this class needs to be played as tank in groups as often as possible, do instances etc. if you don't want to get bored.
Not sure when or if I'll continue leveling.

My Captain is now 59, and I started her quite a bit later than my guard. The first 30 levels were far from impressive, average survivability meets poor damage, and this darn halberd really is slow. But somehow after you have some more red traits and skills the damage goes up considerably, and things start to become fun. There's enough skill choice to not get bored quickly (buffs, debuffs, herald/standard) and those legendary halberds finally cut big chunks of morale out of your enemies on crits, and with pressing attacks getting increased number of targets through weapon legacies it's really fun to just jump into 3-5 mobs and take them apart with ease.
Also legendary items improve your buffs and healing considerably, it almost seems overpowered compared to other classes.
Sure you still won't break speed records, but i think my burglar wasn't really faster in killing stuff at that level, and a LOT more squishy (though with neat tricks to escape and incapacitate enemies).
Overall, I'm really glad I didn't abandon the Captain at level 30.
I also feel more useful in groups than with my burglar, so it might even become my new raid character eventually...

Originally Posted by danno8

Interesting about Guardian? I have a level 50 something stuck in moria. Have not been able to go back after rolling a Warden.

Funny, I'm almost the same. My guardian is the second character I created, and he's still stuck somewhere in Moria. I play him every now and then, but mostly because I feel badly for him being kicked to the sideline by a hyperactive hobbit girl .

My warden was one of the last characters I created (I tried all classes but didn't get the Moria expansion until my minstrel main was well above level 30) and I absolutely love her. She's fun, she's different, she's maybe a bit too full of herself and thinks herself invincible, but mostly she's right anyway . She's the second character I've actually played all the way to 75, and I love to play her solo as well as in groups (haven't tried her in Orthanc T2 yet, but she's successfully tanked everything else of the current endgame content).

There's something special about a little hobbit girl running through all the big bad baddies, pulling dozends of Uruks or Easterlings (or the whole Globsnaga population of 16th hall) and watching them fall to the ground around her eventually. Admittedly her single target damage (solo on landscape) isn't all that great, but if I just let her pull as many mobs as she can find and stock up on aoe lifeleeches she does just fine.

The one thing the guardian definitely is better at is tanking at low- and mid-levels. Guardians get their main threat management tools early on, while wardens have to wait for the really helpful gambits for a long time. Guardians also have an easier time picking up and keeping threat on specific targets, while wardens are better at controlling large groups of mobs (not helpful in instances that need specific mobs cc'ed). On the other side if things go wrong the warden self-heal and self-buff abilities are much more versatile than the guardian's abilities, making it much easier to survive a bad pull or unlucky respawn.

Personally, I like playing my guardians (besides the one in Moria I have a hobbit lady guardian in her 30s on another server who was originally created for roleplaying only), but not nearly as much as my warden. I guess I'm just a warden kind of person.

About the race and questing problem, if you don't like the Shire (how can you not like the Shire? ) the Michel Delving stable master will give you a ride to Thorin's Gate, Celondim, West Bree or Combe for a single silver piece so you can pick your questing area of choice (I'd take the dwarves if I would ever get tired of carrying mail through the Shire ).

*edit: While I love my warden, she definitely is just an alt and will likely never take the place of my minstrel main. Still I don't find it hard to get back into playing her after neglecting her for a while. *

My 2cp:

In addition to the proactive/reactive divide, I find wardens easier than guard from the standpoint of movement. The warden is MUCH more maneuver-friendly, in the sense of footwork. When you're trying to tank stuff, it helps a lot if you can move freely. I am a soloer, so maybeso others can tell me I'm full of it? The guard was more fun at lower levels, tho.

YMMV

I am having this same debate right now. I need to figure out what my first alt will be and started each of the three in the thread title. They are all level 2 right now though and I can't decide between them. It would be nice to have a tank to go with my hunter.

What would people recommend for a tanks crafting ability? I have a woodworking hunter right now. I was thinking about going cook to make consumables but would like to know if crafting heavy armors would be bettet for a tank.

Crafting armor or jewelry is more helpful leveling simply because those professions give you six items, whereas wood or metal weapons give you maybe two items. Yes, the weapons are more important (especially early on), but it is also much easier to find one or two items than six. Tailors make armor for six classes, metalsmiths for three (but also tools). Everyone needs jewelry.

Endgame, scholars make the best, most broadly useful consumables.

Well... My Warden is level 52, my Captain is level 19 and my Champion is level 10 (no character slot for a guardian yet)...

Since I don't have any real experience with any but the Warden, I'll have to say the warden is an excellent class IF you manage to get past the initial levels where you only have a couple of gambits.

My warden can actually do the solo instances in Moria faster than my hunter used to (and with a lower level) because he can just draw aggro on lots of enemies and mow through them all at the same time.

It's just great heading into the Training Halls, killing the first 5 orcs at the same time, then the 4 patrolling ones and then just hit the boss and fight 12 orc recruits, the boss AND 2 regular orc trainners at the same time.
It's possible that it's not even faster, but considering I had to kill one or two orcs at a time, then 3 orc recruits at a time and then the boss alone, I needed between 11 and 14 short pulls with my hunter or RK, while my Warden does the instance in 3 pulls...
It may not be faster since each pull takes a lot more time, but it is definitively more FUN.

As far as the first 19 levels of my captain go, I don't find it too slow, but since I have played all classes but guardian, my comparison chart is pretty wide...

I'm not going to comment on my level 10 champion, specially seeing that you already ruled champions out...

Originally Posted by lf2536

I've been playing a Warden for over 3 years now, IMO it's the best class there is. the Warden is a somewhat complex class, not hard though especially if you focus on the class. however, if you do plan on tanking as Warden start early, Wardens by nature require more effort then Guards for them to do things right, now while you can figure things out even if you only start tanking at 75 it'll be that much harder.

Just wanted to reinterate this point...I solo'd all the way to 75 never really learning what my class could do. I joined a kin this year and have had a huge learning curve tanking (still learning btw). I've played most classes into the 20's but warden was the one I WANTED to play....it is a great class to play and so much fun. If you stick with it you will be well rewarded.

Good Luck!

I haven't read other posts, but as you can see from my sig I roll a level 62 Guard. This is my first MMO experience - so I wanted something very durable. Guards are definitely low dps - but can also take a walloping and survive. Not only that, I don't have to manage my pulls super carefully - I can generally take on multiple mobs including elites and such and not worry overly much about dying.

I solo'd up to Eregion and then teamed up with my husband's hunter and went into a more tanking vs. OP role. And she's been a lot of fun to play. There's a lot to be said for being able to tank with another character or in a group. But it all depends on your play style and what you enjoy.

I have a Champ too, but she's been stuck at 27 for ages...once I get my Guard leveled and my 41 Mini I'll get her going again.

As for Wardens, they are my husband's favorite class. Extremely durable and capable of high dps and crazy mob pulls. They can be a tricky mechanic to play (for a newbie like me not appealing). And the general impression I get is that for every good warden there are 9 wardens still figuring out gambits and how to play a warden effectively. One man fellowship is also heard a lot.

I like my guard a lot. I like her even more now that I'm grouping with another character and have the chance to play a guard in a tank situation. I'd spend some time reading the various class forums and see what ultimately sounds the most appealing and go from there!

I have all 4 (Including Champion) classes and the most fun to play for me is champion BUT Guardian is my main.

The point I wanted to make though is this..

If you're rolling a tank, always make it a man. Men have the 2000 - 3000 heal racial trait and a passive ability which increases incoming healing rating by 5%, which is Very important.

Also, don't be quick to dismiss questing in the shire as you get +2 innocence, which is an essential virtue for tanking. Yes, it's boring as hell and hobbit npc's are incredibly annoying but it's worth just doing it.

And suddenly I feel like rolling up a Champion.

Weird mood shifts are weird :-/ Sorry guys.

Well my Guardian just hit level 75 this week. I now have four at 75: Captain (man), Warden (man), Champion (man) and Guardian (dwarf). Here are a few thoughts based on (a) how I like to play and (b) my personal experiences.

For the record, I would categorize myself as a serious solo player. My goal is to become a solid group player/casual raider.

Captain - my first toon. I loved playing the Cappy up until Isengard. Trouble is that I don't like healing.

Warden - I love playing the Warden as a solo player. But since I want to be a solid group player, I must learn the gambits. I am too lazy to learn them at this point in my life. Also, some groups have had trouble with a weak Warden, and I don't want to have to deal with that (or in my case reinforcing their negative opinions).

Champion - I had the most fun getting this toon to level 75 because I like a good old-fashioned in-your-face fight. My daughter cannot stand her Champ (lvl 42) and does not play him anymore. I fully expected to have my Champ as my main, but I had a little trouble finding groups because of the availability of DPS toons. It seemed to me that tanks/healers are in greater demand, therefore...

Guardian - I rolled a Guard. The mid-40's to mid-60's were a pain in the neck for me. Of course, it was my fourth time running the content (like Moria), and I may have just been bored. When I hit level 55 I made a big push and got my my Guard to lvl 75 in about 4 weeks. I have just started tanking the 3-man/6-man stuff, and I think this toon will become my main. Very enjoyable for me to play in groups.

When the new update comes out in September, and the cap increases to level 85, I anticipate that I will play both my Champ and my Guard. Not sure at this point if I will level the Capt or Warden at all.