Thread: Inside the Game: Mounted Combat discussion

Originally Posted by RingOfFire

Anyway, out of curiosity, what influenced the decision in regards to this specific approach for War-steed skills, rather than other alternatives (ie. a "pet" skill bar, like the ones for Lore-master and Captain pets)?

The skills you're using while mounted are new skills. (They're inspired by existing class skills, but have a very specific mounted context.) With that in mind, it didn't make sense to clutter your UI with another full row of skills that you could only use while on a War-steed.

I'm glad to see a little more communication on Turbine's part, and although, like others, I would have liked to have seen more zoomed-in gameplay footage, I'm glad to have what we got. It looks good so far, and I'm looking forward to seeing more.

I'm more concerned that they seem to have decapitated Horse Dev. Poor guy... is this what he got for talking? Is that why he had to communicate with us in code? Is this why we don't have more developer communication? Now I'm worried about Sapience and Rowan... what's going to happen to them when Turbine finds out they've posted this video?

And they didn't even have the decency to mount Horse Dev's head on a pike. What a waste...

Originally Posted by RingOfFire

A few things I noticed from this video:

Some of these things caused me to note that I needed to turn up the youtube-quality setting. It helped pick out some of these details. (some that I'd missed on previous watch throughs, others I hadn't.)

I wonder what effect the mounted toolbar will have on custom UI skins? I don't use the default game toolbar. I like a much smaller version with very small icons/buttons. Has anyone over there tested custom skins with the RoR UI? If custom skins are not supported, will they automatically be disabled? I'd hate to have my UI go crazy at launch cause I'm using a player made UI skin.

Example of the toolbar skin I use.

Hurrah! more abandoned Farmsteads!!! Also we know that Eaves of Fangorn is somewhere towards endgame. (something about; i'll end up in Fangorn with level 80's if I'm not careful.) Oh, and wandering elites!!!!!!! Does this mean the return of Rare Elites? Nobody else excited by this? no? just me? Ahem....
*blushes*

Thanks Rowan and Sapience for the video. Was really nice to see some more info on mounted combat Looking forward to the next one.

Mounted Combat sounds really advanced, I mean how can the Loremaster still be the Loremaster? If I got it right they wont be given pets while mounted so..: Im just riding around hitting with my staff? the skill burning embers requires a acorn and unless I got them stacked up in my pockets I see no way to pick up the acorns while mounted so for me it will be really interesting to see how each classes will deal with being mounted. Looking forward to RoR (PvE side)

Thanks for the video, it looks like a lot of fun!

I have a question about the new mounted combat stances - if I am a minstrel on the ground in war-speech, and I get on my War-steed, does my mounted combat stance automatically match my ground stance?

(That is, will the war-steed be in Red Dawn stance when I start out, or will I have to remember to choose that mounted combat stance right away?)

Thanks! Keep those videos coming!

Just have to say - nothing at all from that video interests me gameplaywise.

As Sapience mentions - If you are going to be pounced by a warg pack please let it be a warg pack. Especially in a combat heavy area like Rohan.

None of this NPC nonsense.

If Osgiliath / Ithillien / Morannon / Mordor is not an open PVP zone - I shudder to think what this game is trying to achieve. You can certainly keep the Shire etc as non PVP zones, I can even understand Isengard being non PVP. But from here on peeps - it should be open hunting.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Originally Posted by jayspeed

I wonder what effect the mounted toolbar will have on custom UI skins?

This is my main reaction and worry. I hope everything will integrate seamlessly, and if things are broken, we will get an update around the release date. I'm actually looking forward to new graphics to play with, assuming we get them.

The mounted combat looks intriguing. I wonder if it will be especially fun in groups. Thanks for the video!

Originally Posted by Macfeast

Might mounted combat be the reason (or at least a big motivator) for the newly introduced option to lock the camera to a target? I can see how this option would help immensely in mounted combat.

Other observations; The horse dying-animation looked great, except for the fact that it looked to be locked to one spot on the ground. You had this horse galloping full speed suddenly coming to a sudden stop right there on the spot as if it had no momentum, and it just looked really awkward.

Nice to see Uruks mounted (though I really hope the horse is replaced with a warg eventually). Goblins aren't really that menacing visually, but a pack of regular orcs and Uruks, all mounted up, that would be something different.

Not as much gameplay-footage as I had hoped, but I really like that they're making an effort to give us information.

Yes! The camera lock was introduced for exactly that reason. Basicaly, if you play any flight sims, it works a lot like head-lock when mounted. You always track your enemy. so you always know which way to turn.

Originally Posted by Flatfoot789

Oh and are you guys per chance running from an SSD there? Looked like it.

I'm pretty sure Aaron has just a stock, Dell issued, HDD in there.

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

Just have to say - nothing at all from that video interests me gameplaywise.

As Sapience mentions - If you are going to be pounced by a warg pack please let it be a warg pack. Especially in a combat heavy area like Rohan.

None of this NPC nonsense.

If Osgiliath / Ithillien / Morannon / Mordor is not an open PVP zone - I shudder to think what this game is trying to achieve. You can certainly keep the Shire etc as non PVP zones, I can even understand Isengard being non PVP. But from here on peeps - it should be open hunting.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Uh no it shouldnt be open hunting.

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

Just have to say - nothing at all from that video interests me gameplaywise.

As Sapience mentions - If you are going to be pounced by a warg pack please let it be a warg pack. Especially in a combat heavy area like Rohan.

None of this NPC nonsense.

If Osgiliath / Ithillien / Morannon / Mordor is not an open PVP zone - I shudder to think what this game is trying to achieve. You can certainly keep the Shire etc as non PVP zones, I can even understand Isengard being non PVP. But from here on peeps - it should be open hunting.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Translation: I still haven't realized that this game isn't a pvp centered game, and that changing the design philosophy to cater to my needs would alienate the core lotro population. I would be fine with these areas being open hunting if pvp was important in this game. It's not however, PvE is. PvP is a nice mini game.

Originally Posted by Eartholloth

Uh no it shouldnt be open hunting.

And your reasoning is?

These areas, and probably a few more, should be filled with peeps out to give you a very bad time indeed. On Sauron's orders.

Do you honestly expect to walk to the Sammath Naur with no opposition?

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Originally Posted by TheNightAngel

Translation: I still haven't realized that this game isn't a pvp centered game, and that changing the design philosophy to cater to my needs would alienate the core lotro population. I would be fine with these areas being open hunting if pvp was important in this game. It's not however, PvE is. PvP is a nice mini game.

And which caters also to your needs - judging by your rank.

And PvP minigame, maingame, endgame, whatever status you bequeathe it - it is how I play, and you have no right to discern otherwise nor assume my intentions.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

And which caters also to your needs - judging by your rank.

And PvP minigame, maingame, endgame, whatever status you bequeathe it - it is how I play, and you have no right to discern otherwise nor assume my intentions.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

I understand its how you play. However, its not how the devs have designed the game, nor is it how most people play. LotRO is a very PvE centered game, where every one zone but one was made for it. The simple fact is, Turbine is not going to do a 180 and make the rest of Middle Earth PvP to cater to a niche in their player base. They haven't even given PvPers a new map. While I understand the want for a new map or just somewhere else to play for the PvP player base, making one out of iconic locations will come back and bite Turbine in the butt. Most people will want to experience the story of later areas such as Mordor or Helms Deep, and making that a PvP zone would throw away the epic story in that area (very bad idea), and would alienate a large percent of Turbine's player base.

And in all honesty, I think PvP needs larger fixes than just new areas. For starters, its extremely slow paced...

Originally Posted by TheNightAngel

I understand its how you play. However, its not how the devs have designed the game, nor is it how most people play. LotRO is a very PvE centered game, where every one zone but one was made for it. The simple fact is, Turbine is not going to do a 180 and make the rest of Middle Earth PvP to cater to a niche in their player base. They haven't even given PvPers a new map. While I understand the want for a new map or just somewhere else to play for the PvP player base, making one out of iconic locations will come back and bite Turbine in the butt. Most people will want to experience the story of later areas such as Mordor or Helms Deep, and making that a PvP zone would throw away the epic story in that area (very bad idea), and would alienate a large percent of Turbine's player base.

And in all honesty, I think PvP needs larger fixes than just new areas. For starters, its extremely slow paced...

I completely agree with your right to your own opinion, and I am not going to disagree with you for many different reasons.

I will, however, stick with my original point. One does not simply walk into Mordor. Perhaps a bad quote, and not canon, but the idea is the same.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Very nice sneak peek, but I'll still need more information before prepurchasing. The emphasis on the mounted combat makes me wary about the future path the game will take, leveling 75 levels only to start again strikes me as an odd direction change but I'll wait for info, I just hope its not another skirmish soldier situation :/

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

I completely agree with your right to your own opinion, and I am not going to disagree with you for many different reasons.

I will, however, stick with my original point. One does not simply walk into Mordor. Perhaps a bad quote, and not canon, but the idea is the same.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

For myself, and all my friends who play lotro and have no interest in PvMP at all, no.
Once does not simply walk into moria either, yet we did.
One does not simply walk into isengard, yet we did.
We can damn well walk into mordor too without the need for open world PVP to rear it's ugley head.

I've hated every experiance in every game that involved open world PvP, and I have no reason to expect lotro to be any different if the dev's decided to impliment your fantasy.

It would be an immediate departure for myself and my friends.

That said, if turbine used their layer tech so that players could 'choose' to be in the PVE or PVP version of a zone, then I have no problem with this at all. We can both stay in our respective playgrounds and pretend the other doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

I completely agree with your right to your own opinion, and I am not going to disagree with you for many different reasons.

I will, however, stick with my original point. One does not simply walk into Mordor. Perhaps a bad quote, and not canon, but the idea is the same.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

No one is just gonna walk into Mordor. There will be a ton of NPC's standing in our way. Personally I love how PvP is handled in LOTRO. I do wish the Moors got some more attention but I like how PvP and PvE is separate. I do not like getting ganked when I'm questing and trying to level. If I want to PvP, I can go to the Moors and PvP. When I'm not in the mood for gank squads, I can go back to PvE land and quest. I'm the type of player that never selects PvP servers when making my character. MAYBE open world PvP in Gondor/Mordor would work if players could flag themselves as PvP or Non-PvP (overt/covert SWG style) so those that don't want any part of PvP can still quest and level BUT that would really break immersion. It would be weird seeing a warg pack run by me without attacking because I'm marked as Non-PvP. I'm not invisible so it would break my sense of immersion. Turbine could always add another map to the game for just PvMP. Freeps tend to be geared out usually so you'd also have to take casuals into consideration. How fun will it be for a person that only plays a few hours a week and has weak gear to try to level and quest when they are constantly getting mauled by creeps. No thank you. Keep it separate.

Originally Posted by Tannus

For myself, and all my friends who play lotro and have no interest in PvMP at all, no.
Once does not simply walk into moria either, yet we did.
One does not simply walk into isengard, yet we did.
We can damn well walk into mordor too without the need for open world PVP to rear it's ugley head.

I've hated every experiance in every game that involved open world PvP, and I have no reason to expect lotro to be any different if the dev's decided to impliment your fantasy.

It would be an immediate departure for myself and my friends.

That said, if turbine used their layer tech so that players could 'choose' to be in the PVE or PVP version of a zone, then I have no problem with this at all. We can both stay in our respective playgrounds and pretend the other doesn't exist.

That right there is a great idea if it could be done. I imagine creating a separate layer for entire regions on each server would be very costly from a technical viewpoint. I don't know how their layering tech works. Is it capable of covering an entire region? I've only seen it done in small zones so far like Galtrev and other parts of Dunland. I think each small zone within the region is it's own layer. Not sure if they can make one large layer. It would suck chasing a player down and crossing a layer border only to have your target vanish into another layer. Still that's a great suggestion from you.

For everyone talking about open PvP here: if I remember correctly, Turbine is forbidden from implementing open world PvP due to the licensing agreement for the Lord of the Rings IP (and have said so themselves in the past), so we can be sure it will remain in out-of-the-way locations such as the Ettenmoors (or perhaps other plausible alternatives such as PvP skirmishes). I am not exactly sure as to where precisely the line is drawn, so that is something they would have to clarify further themselves.

With that said, and getting back to the main topic of this thread, it looks like the melee skills used in this video have a longer range than normal. I could see this assisting with making it easier to hit while moving in higher ping situations, but have any particular measures been considered to mitigate missing targets on horseback due to lag?

The video looks good, and the in game footage is interesting from a "Dev Playtest Area".

I'm still looking forward to Rohan.

Great interview.. video looks wonderful. My family and I are very excited about Rohan and mounted combat and have no regrets about ROR pre-purchase.

As someone who mostly plays a Minstrel dps style, how will mounted combat affect that? I heard Sapience very nicely explain the healing asopect for Minstrels on mounted combat. Thanks for that except not all Minstrels are healers! Will Minstrels still have their existing almost amazing dps intact or will they be stuck in a healing mode for mounted combat? I certainly hope not because I only love to dps the Minstrel. Thanks so much to answer my question.

Once again, fantastic interview. You do a marvelous job as CM Sapience. I'm very impressed with how professional you are on camera, how you present yourself and your obvious caring for the LOTRO community. Job well done. It was also nice to see one of the devs and how nicely you all seem to get along, like a little family... :-)

PS: On a side note, hate seeing the poor horse die. Can't the horse simply run off to safety once a player passes out from injuries?

Originally Posted by RingOfFire

For everyone talking about open PvP here: if I remember correctly, Turbine is forbidden from implementing open world PvP due to the licensing agreement for the Lord of the Rings IP (and have said so themselves in the past), so we can be sure it will remain in out-of-the-way locations such as the Ettenmoors (or perhaps other plausible alternatives such as PvP skirmishes). I am not exactly sure as to where precisely the line is drawn, so that is something they would have to clarify further themselves.

With that said, and getting back to the main topic of this thread, it looks like the melee skills used in this video have a longer range than normal. I could see this assisting with making it easier to hit while moving in higher ping situations, but have any particular measures been considered to mitigate missing targets on horseback due to lag?

Pretty sure that rule is only for certains areas, like the Shire, Bree-land and such.
It wouldnt be against the lore to have open-PVP in places like Osgiliath or Ithilien. Actually, it would be a better spot to have PVP lore-wise, than the ettenmoors.
That said, open-area PVP will not gonna happen because 1) It's a bad feature 2) Doesnt fit at all with LOTRO player base.

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

And your reasoning is?

These areas, and probably a few more, should be filled with peeps out to give you a very bad time indeed. On Sauron's orders.

Do you honestly expect to walk to the Sammath Naur with no opposition?

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Here's good reasoning:

If memory serves correctly the original license holder has to approve all content and that said license holder has said no to open world PvP, so no matter how much Turbine wants to add open world PvP (which I think is not very much), it's not going to happen.

So no, no hunting. (For which I'm personally glad).

Sapience, nice airplane model at your desk! Spitfire mk I? :-)
Go, aviation nerds!

Some of the concept of mounted combat is interesting. What I dislike is it looks like everything is forcing you to be mounted. Can you knock an enemy off of their horse while you're still on the ground and fight them face to face on your own two feet?

Another concern of mine is the Burglar. He's a stealth class so he sneaks around to attack stuff... I guess mounted combat would completely change how a Burglar plays (for the Rohan region anyway).

Other than those this looks great and promising. Can't wait to get my Captain on his new steed when Rohan is released :P

Very good. It feels smooth and familiar.

The gameplay part hides the skill bars (very clever). What about the skill trees panel?

I watched it in slow motion (recomended, specially with voices lol) looking for poping up textures, It seems the line of sight has been improved but I still see the same typical Lotro bad texture streaming here and there, maybe is Rowan's pc.

I hope we can see more gameplay videos. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

And your reasoning is?

These areas, and probably a few more, should be filled with peeps out to give you a very bad time indeed. On Sauron's orders.

Do you honestly expect to walk to the Sammath Naur with no opposition?

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

My reasoning is that LOTRO is, and always has been, a predominantly PVE game. If PVP were forced upon us, then I, and I suspect many other LOTRO players, would leave, as it would no longer be the game that we play and love.

Originally Posted by Sapience

I'm pretty sure Aaron has just a stock, Dell issued, HDD in there.

WOW!

That´s actually excellent news, as to my eyes the ride looked pretty fluid!

I was quite afraid of the client´s notoriously inefficient texture swapping killing off this interesting new gameplay option.
So your gfx wizards have managed to optimize the client´s texture swap rate only in Rohan or is it a general fix?

And thnx for the answer. We wine because we care.

It is nice that you are showing something but I had hoped to see more. I believe the answers to Minstrel, and Tank class mounted combat were very vague, and just watching a horse run around the screen was in my opinion not showing the combat either.
So far I think that my pre-ordering this Update was the the biggest waste of money on LOTRO yet. The contents of the packages were all just trash except for the horse. The session play with the horse shows a horse galloping slow and the scenery speeding by. It's the worst animation I've ever experienced in this game yet. I think it has a rediculously high Morale for a horse with no armour as well. I used to be continuously impressed with this game and its attention to detail but that horse is a big dissapointment to me.

I really hope there are a few challenges in the quest and instance content of the Update.

Originally Posted by FromgalTheMinstrel

I'm glad that you finally decide to show the main new feature of the next expansion.

No they didn't.. because Mounted Combat is not an expansion feature. Everyone gets it, expansion or not. I wish people would remember this fact when talking about the expansion, as it's not part of it.. further reducing it's appeal to actually buy it.
The expansion is a quest pack and some free TP.
Not the landscape mass, epic story or mounted combat. Those are all free.

It is one... one video people!!!! My god how you can base your opinion on just one short video is beyond me. There is going to be more videos & info in the weeks to come. As they say, patience is a virtue!

Oh come on Sap and Rowan we didn't you provide us with a 2:35:1 4k red camera shot three hour look at all the areas of Rohan, including spoilers of every single quest, epic quest and deeds?

As you might tell I am using our Limeys world famous dry wit . I loved this teaser and am grateful for them both (plus the person filming) for taking time out of their very busy days to show us a teaser. For those who wanted more, where would the fun be in that? The idea is to spark off chat amongst us like what others have said like have you noticed at 3:19 how Sap looks scared of Rowan. Well okay not that but you get the idea

PJ

PS Aaron, if the day job ever dries up you could always make an adult movie called 'The Riders of Rowan' ha see what I did there hmm yeah that was baaaad *hangs head in shame*

Originally Posted by Fredelas

I'd challenge Turbine to show us 60 seconds of real close-up solo mounted combat for each class, and a few minutes of group mounted combat. That sounds reasonable to me for an expansion that launches in just a few weeks.

Second that.

Yes a decent teaser. I enjoyed watching it. I am glad there are folks that go through these frame by frame and post there findings. I never would but thanks to those that did. I have to go back and add rep/

I like the idea of all classes keeping their 3 stances - New names sort of same idea.

What is a interest is are we going to receive all 3 stances at the start or if those mounted skills are the next set of skills we will earn and purchase as we advance to lvl 85.

But thanks for the peek and i am looking forward to more.

PS. It would be great to see one thread that has nothing to do with PvP NOT to have PvP comments in it. Trying to hijack every thread is very counter productive. At least the Devs do not bother answering these posts anymore.

Two questions..

You were fighting one handed, so do we all need a one handed weapon for mounted combat? Seems obvious until you think of hunters using a bow (two hands)

Horse speed... Will it be like the +68% horses or faster? The dailiy horse sessions give us both (and less).
Someone said traits would play a role in deciding (in another thread), if so that would explain the inconsistant speeds in the dailies. It would be good to hear at least a hint!

Enjoyed the teaser. Keep them coming!

Hello, thanks Turbine for the teaser, nice video. A bit short

I agree with the comment on the "dismounted" animation, it's a bit "brutal", if it's possible to make it a bit smoother, the horse sliding down a few meters for example.

Please Turbine, pay attention to the UI interface makers and the Lua Plugins makers !
Take care in advance to give them tools and informations, to give them the opportunity to work and adapt their interfaces and plugins, a lot, a big lot, of players are using that.
It would be sad if everything done by the players (costing them a lot of time and energy) is broken the day RoR is launched.

Keep on going the good work and the commmunication !

Originally Posted by Aevara

You were fighting one handed, so do we all need a one handed weapon for mounted combat? Seems obvious until you think of hunters using a bow (two hands)

I guess this is based on the idea that we'd need one hand (at least) for the reins? While it's more straight-forward to steer with reins, it's definitely possible to do it without... just like it's possible to ride a bike (including taking turns) without using your hands. It's a question of balance and, in the case of a horse, training.

Also, didn't medieval knights have both a shield and a weapon and still ride horses?