Thread: The last few days (weeks?) we have so little good fights...

This will probably turn into another creep/freep and pve/pvp fight...

In turns, one side is always gathering a massive force and crushing and flipping all map...

I normally ask the freep groups I am in not to flip lugz, just kill the tyrant and don't flip it... I don't even bother asking anymore. Even if the group listen (hardly happens), someone else outside the group goes and flip it. People complain, but creeps do the same (map is red more often then blue, but that is not excuse to flip it all blue). Most people on both sides do the same. All map blue or red is bad for action, but it is not the only 'problem' here.

Both sides will turtle inside a keep/disband when heavily outnumbered or outmatched (balance is not only about numbers, right?).

Last evening started good, some good numbers non grouped on both sides fighting at TA/STAB (ta red), until some creep gathered a good group (full of high ranks). TA fight dead and LC flipped red. Freeps started to organize to defend TR (last blue dot on the map). A bit later some freep came in and freeps have a bigger and organized raid. We defended TR a bit, two good fights at LC and after that map all blue, but iseng.

I left moors to do kin stuff before iseng was blue, so I don't know what happened after we took relics, but it looked like the action was about to die with creep raid disbanding. I had the impression of another smaller creep group kind of waiting for the freep raid to disband to gank and flip map red again.

I am trying to do some more 1v1 on gta, but I really don't care about it, I just miss those long and open group fights...

Can't we be a little more civilized at the moors? Don't make a HUGE group when there is no opposition? Scale up groups slowly... leave TR and LUGZ respectively blue and red? Less group farmings? Don't go flipping stuff just to flip it when there is fight going on without the need of pve (sometimes pve calls for pvp, but only sometimes)?

Edit: Trolling someone in OOC for doing something you don't find good just enrages people to do it more. Same and worse when freeps try to cheat to avoid pve action (like getting the relic and running to 1 shotters or aggroing a tyrant outside of the room to reset it), it will just enrage people to do worse.

If we all keep point fingers on each other and using that as an excuse to do the same we will never have more fights.

Cheers moors people, we are all on the same side when it comes to have fun. Lets do better.

Originally Posted by Tchad

This will probably turn into another creep/freep and pve/pvp fight...

In turns, one side is always gathering a massive force and crushing and flipping all map...

I normally ask the freep groups I am in not to flip lugz, just kill the tyrant and don't flip it... I don't even bother asking anymore. Even if the group listen (hardly happens), someone else outside the group goes and flip it. People complain, but creeps do the same (map is red more often then blue, but that is not excuse to flip it all blue). Most people on both sides do the same. All map blue or red is bad for action, but it is not the only 'problem' here.

Both sides will turtle inside a keep/disband when heavily outnumbered or outmatched (balance is not only about numbers, right?).

Last evening started good, some good numbers non grouped on both sides fighting at TA/STAB (ta red), until some creep gathered a good group (full of high ranks). TA fight dead and LC flipped red. Freeps started to organize to defend TR (last blue dot on the map). A bit later some freep came in and freeps have a bigger and organized raid. We defended TR a bit, two good fights at LC and after that map all blue, but iseng.

I left moors to do kin stuff before iseng was blue, so I don't know what happened after we took relics, but it looked like the action was about to die with creep raid disbanding. I had the impression of another smaller creep group kind of waiting for the freep raid to disband to gank and flip map red again.

I am trying to do some more 1v1 on gta, but I really don't care about it, I just miss those long and open group fights...

Can't we be a little more civilized at the moors? Don't make a HUGE group when there is no opposition? Scale up groups slowly... leave TR and LUGZ respectively blue and red? Less group farmings? Don't go flipping stuff just to flip it when there is fight going on without the need of pve (sometimes pve calls for pvp, but only sometimes)?

Edit: Trolling someone in OOC for doing something you don't find good just enrages people to do it more. Same and worse when freeps try to cheat to avoid pve action (like getting the relic and running to 1 shotters or aggroing a tyrant outside of the room to reset it), it will just enrage people to do worse.

If we all keep point fingers on each other and using that as an excuse to do the same we will never have more fights.

Cheers moors people, we are all on the same side when it comes to have fun. Lets do better.

There are no rules in a PVMP zone.....it's kill or be killed and flip every chance you get. Alot of new players have lost sight of why it's important to keep the zone blue....it slows the creeps progression...well at least it did untill Turbine provided a process to power level a creep with a credit card...go figure.

Val

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

There are no rules in a PVMP zone.....it's kill or be killed and flip every chance you get. Alot of new players have lost sight of why it's important to keep the zone blue....it slows the creeps progression...well at least it did untill Turbine provided a process to power level a creep with a credit card...go figure.

Val

Val, I respect your decision to play for one side and remain loyal to it, but even you ought to know that creeps can still complete quests towards their Lugs map while it's blue, because a couple of quests in DG count for Lugs, so saying you want to flip it just to screw over the greenies doesn't even make sense. Leaving one rez keep red and one rez keep blue is preferable in the interests of letting everyone be able to get back into the action quickly.

Also, saying it's important to keep the map blue just to screw over the greenies is kind of pathetic. You're basically saying "I prefer to fight opponents that are half-gimped weaklings missing much of their skillset," which, well, is kind of pathetic.

Originally Posted by Tchad

Cheers moors people, we are all on the same side when it comes to have fun. Lets do better.

The definition of fun varies greatly among those on this server.

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

There are no rules in a PVMP zone.....it's kill or be killed and flip every chance you get. Alot of new players have lost sight of why it's important to keep the zone blue....it slows the creeps progression...well at least it did untill Turbine provided a process to power level a creep with a credit card...go figure.

Val

Yes Val, we all know u love to fight a buncha greenies/low ranks, but some of us like me like to actually have a challenge and fight high ranks (when I was on freeps anyway). That's y u r still the same poopy lm and will always be the same poopy lm. If you want to fight greenies and low ranks, go back to book 7-8 pvp in SoA. That cater to your needs quite nicely; sad thing is tho, u would still suck so bad even when lms were op as balls then.

Originally Posted by Tuin

The definition of fun varies greatly among those on this server.

Quoted for truth, as well as +rep.

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

There are no rules in a PVMP zone.... As long as you don't spar, flip to the side that needs help, or interupt a good grams camp.

*fixed*

Double-standards gonna double-stand.

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

Alot of new players have lost sight of why it's important to keep the zone blue....it slows the creeps progression

I'll say it again Val. Hutu extremists, Adolf Hitler, the former minister of Darfur, Sudan ALL had this same ideology as you. Funny right?

Originally Posted by the_blah

*fixed*

Double-standards gonna double-stand.

I do miss you Mister Clown.

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

There are no rules in a PVMP zone.....it's kill or be killed and flip every chance you get. Alot of new players have lost sight of why it's important to keep the zone blue....it slows the creeps progression...well at least it did untill Turbine provided a process to power level a creep with a credit card...go figure.

Val

Val, I understand your point of view and I am not really proposing rules for pvp. Just some good sense on what we can do to make gladden pvp better. Keeping the map blue to slow creep progression is a bad idea in my humble opinion. 1st: slowing creep progression = bad for pvp and for fun. 2nd: keeping map blue don't really slow creep progression. 3rd: no one can keep a blue map long enough to make even a small difference.

Happened again last night. I came back after Doth Saruman Kick &&& Time (boring easy, we are not having many t2 raideres online at the same time, meh). Action was nice again on STAB/TA (ta red), good numbers, no groups, people helping each other, giving cover fire, healing, freeps pushing, creeps pushing... good renown... some actual fun... until... until...

Creeps grouped and organized. There was not need, group did not scale up according to opposition, lots of green and blue ranks... Zerg time started and action dead. The group pushed from TA to EC, TR, TR rez, back to EC. Many solo freeps died alone. Many freeps went idle on GV or just log.

PS: TR was red and was flipped blue before DOTH ToO run. When I went back to moors, TR was red again, and some group flipped it back to blue. I am sure it didn't stay blue for long after I left.

No whining, no crying, no complaining and not pointing fingers on creeps (freeps do the same) or anyone. Just saying it is bad.

Originally Posted by Tchad

Val, I understand your point of view and I am not really proposing rules for pvp. Just some good sense on what we can do to make gladden pvp better. Keeping the map blue to slow creep progression is a bad idea in my humble opinion. 1st: slowing creep progression = bad for pvp and for fun. 2nd: keeping map blue don't really slow creep progression. 3rd: no one can keep a blue map long enough to make even a small difference.

Happened again last night. I came back after Doth Saruman Kick &&& Time (boring easy, we are not having many t2 raideres online at the same time, meh). Action was nice again on STAB/TA (ta red), good numbers, no groups, people helping each other, giving cover fire, healing, freeps pushing, creeps pushing... good renown... some actual fun... until... until...

Creeps grouped and organized. There was not need, group did not scale up according to opposition, lots of green and blue ranks... Zerg time started and action dead. The group pushed from TA to EC, TR, TR rez, back to EC. Many solo freeps died alone. Many freeps went idle on GV or just log.

PS: TR was red and was flipped blue before DOTH ToO run. When I went back to moors, TR was red again, and some group flipped it back to blue. I am sure it didn't stay blue for long after I left.

No whining, no crying, no complaining and not pointing fingers on creeps (freeps do the same) or anyone. Just saying it is bad.

Don't disagree with you Mel...problem lies with game design and mechanics. I can't keep a raid intact after the map is flipped, everyone logs over to their creeps and the process starts all over again. Devs have stated that Rohan will bring some new changes to the Moors which will make fighting more desireable than keep flipping and quests. If they don't fix renown/infamy gain to curb the 1v1 play then none of the changes will matter. Players want instant rewards/rank and the fastest way to do that right now is to 1v1.

Val

I am hopping for some PVP instances with RoR, like making the same smirks we have today with the same objectives available to creeps and freeps together. Don't look like a big development to me, but I might be wrong. Setup groups (IF for creeps?) on the same or balanced size and fair class type distribution? Won't it be nice to lead a creep group to take Gondamon and be in a freep group trying to defend it from actual players and not the boring and predictable NPCs?

Anyway, I don't see how 1v1 is doing anything bad to pvp. Between logging or joining a group, I am sure most 1v1s will join a group when there is a zerg group out. Happens that many times there is no leader on the other side or not enough numbers.

Without group or solo don't mean 1v1 on GTA. One can rang around close to other people from the same faction without grouping.

What is hurting the action is zergs and full map flips. I have been in groups where the leader disbanded after a few attempts to get creeps to fight, but the opposing group kept sitting in a keep. The groups were pretty even. I happened to join a freep group that was forming to oppose a big zerg creep raid yesterday or the day before. Unfortunately they disbanded at the same time. We flipped TR and disbanded. Action kept going on without groups.

Have some more examples of people starting solo (again, no 1v1 on GTA) to see how the fight is, make a small group and scale up according. A weaker raid getting wiped trying to find a better place (close or inside keeps), creeps didn't show and the leader went out again just to keep the fight going.

That is the kind of stuff that we are missing.

PS: Just to clarify before someone starts to defend creep population, I am just giving examples based on my experience, since I only play freep side, but I know that the same examples apply to both sides. Not accusing or point finders on creeps or anyone.

You both are incorrectly using the term 1v1 where you should be using solo. That is all.

Val is right about one thing....game mechanics currently encourage solo play.

HPS : DPS disparity between factions (assuming competent play) result in creepside needing more and more numbers relative to freeps as the encounter size scales up. The need to assemble a large group 2x the size of your opponents is unappealing to many creep players, and often requires PuG groups, which on creepside in particular requires a leader with extreme patience, or to be several drinks in.

Solo play (especially on warg, where the majority of creep pop is these days) is actually often the closest to balanced play (note: its still not balanced, but you can pick your fights at least)

w/o changes to creep:freep balance - skirms or set groups would never work with even numbers on both sides.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

Val is right about one thing....game mechanics currently encourage solo play.

HPS : DPS disparity between factions (assuming competent play) result in creepside needing more and more numbers relative to freeps as the encounter size scales up. The need to assemble a large group 2x the size of your opponents is unappealing to many creep players, and often requires PuG groups, which on creepside in particular requires a leader with extreme patience, or to be several drinks in.

Solo play (especially on warg, where the majority of creep pop is these days) is actually often the closest to balanced play (note: its still not balanced, but you can pick your fights at least)

w/o changes to creep:freep balance - skirms or set groups would never work with even numbers on both sides.

All good points however; I only partially agree with your last statement. Problem is many of the creeps are not ranked which is what skews the balance of play. A high level creep (with all their skills) raid against a well geared freep raid is a coin toss imo if both sides are playing smart....balance will tip to whomever doesn't make the first mistake.

Turbine tried to compensate for the lack of high level creeps by adding the skills to the store however; until they correct mechanics so that grp play ROI is greater than 1v1 ROI we'll see little or no change to the moors. Creep and Freep grp play skills have degraded to a point that it's just easier for players to run solo or 1v1 becaue the returns are greater and it takes alot less effort.

Val

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

All good points however; I only partially agree with your last statement. Problem is many of the creeps are not ranked which is what skews the balance of play. A high level creep (with all their skills) raid against a well geared freep raid is a coin toss imo if both sides are playing smart....balance will tip to whomever doesn't make the first mistake.

Turbine tried to compensate for the lack of high level creeps by adding the skills to the store however; until they correct mechanics so that grp play ROI is greater than 1v1 ROI we'll see little or no change to the moors. Creep and Freep grp play skills have degraded to a point that it's just easier for players to run solo or 1v1 becaue the returns are greater and it takes alot less effort.

Val

The thing I don't get with you: Why can't you just let grouping and 1v1s coexist? I don't understand, u just make things difficult with your zerging bs.

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

All good points however; I only partially agree with your last statement. Problem is many of the creeps are not ranked which is what skews the balance of play. A high level creep (with all their skills) raid against a well geared freep raid is a coin toss imo if both sides are playing smart....balance will tip to whomever doesn't make the first mistake.

Turbine tried to compensate for the lack of high level creeps by adding the skills to the store however; until they correct mechanics so that grp play ROI is greater than 1v1 ROI we'll see little or no change to the moors. Creep and Freep grp play skills have degraded to a point that it's just easier for players to run solo or 1v1 becaue the returns are greater and it takes alot less effort.

Val

Low ranks add to the problem yes. Creeps w/o audacity will melt in raid aoe action alone, and freevers are often nothing more then renown nodes/free rallying cries in RvR situations.....

All that being said (assuming competent play again - ie both sides play well and are geared etc) the current game mechanics (and math) don't allow for even number raids to be competitive (even with ranked creeps). Outside extraordinary conditions, the numbers needed creepside are going to be larger because creepside has lower DPS, and lower HPS.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

and freevers are often nothing more then renown nodes/free rallying cries in RvR situations.....

+rep for making me lol

If it was free, I would rename my reaver to "Freerallyingcry"