I have a man capt, and im very happy with it, i just dont really understand why we cant make an elvish captain, i mean think of Gil Galad...and imagine how cool an elvish cappy would look :-)
No.
Elves might have been able to be captains in the first and second ages, but not in the third age. With the waning of the elves, they just can't muster up the charisma to be captains.
Capitan make sense to all races except to the hobbit, all races that participate in wars often have their great captains. I just don't know why turbine made them available only to men.
Capitan make sense to all races except to the hobbit, all races that participate in wars often have their great captains. I just don't know why turbine made them available only to men.
a certain form of capts would make sense for hobbits, if youve read the books you know about bullroarer took, "tall enough to ride a man horse, and hit the head clean off a goblin a hundred yards into a rabbit hole" (re-worded but you get my point)
I can imagine elf/dwarf captains being introduced with Northern Mirkwood/Lonely Mountain, I'm sure a battle taken place in the north as well during the War of the Ring? So going by that, they would need captains to lead the battle!
There have been plenty of threads about this. Eventually it will turn into a flame war. *sigh*
Yes, elves and dwarves should be allowed to have captains. Plenty of precident in lore.
There is also the fact that each player character is actually THE unique character in the storyline, so one elvish/dwarvish captain isnt really a big deal. If it was, having hundreds of elves and hobbits running around middle earth wouldn't make any sense either.
Also consider there are elvish captain trainers in Loth.
Thats all I'll say on the subject, as I know the flames are a brewin.
No.
Elves might have been able to be captains in the first and second ages, but not in the third age. With the waning of the elves, they just can't muster up the charisma to be captains.
This is the most intelligent and accurate comment made in this thread. And every other comment has ignored this one. As far as I'm concerned Okamion has settled the matter, and there isn't a need for further questions.
This is the most intelligent and accurate comment made in this thread. And every other comment has ignored this one. As far as I'm concerned Okamion has settled the matter, and there isn't a need for further questions.
Thank you.
Now regarding hobbit captains and dwarf captain: Hobbits don't have the military background to be captains. Dwarves are probably the most selfish of the races. The only way they could be captains is if their buffs and heals only affected other dwarves.
Elves are fading... right. But they are still fighting the dark from the east.
Evles aren't emo. They are... elves.
Happy and sad. They have seen many beautiful and wonderful things being destroyed never to return again, but they know more than any other race, how important it is to enjoy the presence. Everything can vanish faster than expected, so enjoy it as long it's there.
Elves can be happy, funny and childish.
Elves can be sad, dramatic....
Elves are... elves.
We just can't say exactly what it's like to be an elf. We aren't immortal. (And I surely don't want to be immortal!)
Elves still fight an have captains. Even the "lesser" woodelves. They fought with orcs and goblins at the Erebor.
Elves have a different mind than men. They are motivated differently.
Sticking with my all elf theme I would have created an Elf- Captain if I was allowed but instead I had to make a man. Then I decided I liked playing a diffrent race so I made a Hobbit Burglar, something else an elf can't be, and then made a dwarf Minstrel just because I like the idea of a guitar playing Dwarf.
All I have to say is forcing me to use man for my captain enhansed my LOTRO experience. Thank You developers for limiting certain classes to certain races.
What we need are classes that can only be played by Hobbits, Dwarves, and Elves.
Elves still fight an have captains. Even the "lesser" woodelves. They fought with orcs and goblins at the Erebor.
Elves have a different mind than men. They are motivated differently.
captains, yes, but not Captains. Lowercase captains, as in commanders of their organized military, but not Captains, inspirational leaders who, by their force of will and personality, lead people to acts of greatness. Just as you say, Elves have a different mindset than Men or Hobbits or Dwarves. They wouldnt be able to inspire the other races the same way, not the way that leaders like Gil-Galad did in ages past.
Originally Posted by BitzM
What we need are classes that can only be played by Hobbits, Dwarves, and Elves.
RK is only Dwarves and Elves. Dont know why you have to be so Man-racist Hobbits and Men are in many ways the same; the only real difference is cultural, which is why Hobbits are barred from the more martial classes. The only classes Man is barred from tend to be ones that require more longevity than either Man or Hobbit are granted.
Some of you talk as if the elves are just dead and dont do anything, what about Haldir? (in the movies not sure about books) he lead a troop of elves to helms deep to aid the men....not all the elves are just depressed and ready to leave middle earth.
The way I see it, lore is followed loosely in this game. Therefore, I can see the possibility of other races becoming Captains with subtle differences. What I would suggest is giving them different names (as opposed to 'Captain'), weapon proficiency (as opposed to 'Halberd'), passives (healing modified depending on race), and renamed skills from 'of Men' to 'of the Free Peoples'.
DWARF
Inspiration: Thorin Oakenshield
Name: Sentry
Weapon: 2H Great Maul
Passive: Healing effects increased on Dwarves, decreased on other races.
ELF
Inspiration: Gil-Galad
Name: Sentinel
Weapon: 2H Bladed Longspear
Passive: Healing effects increased on Elves, decreased on other races.
HOBBIT
Inspiration: 'Bullroarer'
Name: Bounder
Weapon: 2H Frying Pan (Joking... Maybe a metallic 2H club?)
Passive: Healing effects increased on Hobbits, decreased on other races.
Last edited by Aztec_Soul; Jul 03 2012 at 02:40 PM.
Here, I wrote really much about racial things, but most of the people were too lazy to read it.
I totally agree with Okamion about the captains of elves, but, I think the remaining Noldors could fit to the captain class. There are perfect classes, fitting for the kinds of elves. The sindars and wood-elves are hunters, and, of course, wardens, it is not an accident that the wardens are inspired by Haldir and the hunters by Legolas. The avars also known as dark-elves would be perfect burglars, but, elves cannot play burglars - or avars. The telers, well, there is not much about them, so, I don't say anything. I like them as minstrels and guardians with spears. The noldors were perfect as champions, but since Turbine took the shields from them, I still mourn my shielded, spear or sword wielding noldor champion.
So, yes, Okamion has right: the captains of the elves have gone, but, they have other warriors, styled by the lore.
Some of you talk as if the elves are just dead and dont do anything, what about Haldir? (in the movies not sure about books) he lead a troop of elves to helms deep to aid the men....not all the elves are just depressed and ready to leave middle earth.
Haldir, as portrayed in the movies has no bearing whatsoever on the lore of the game, which is based on the books. There is no company of elves in Helms Deep, only Men of Rohan, and the Members of the Fellowship that made that leg of the journey.
Most people speculate that race population is the main reason for man-only Captains. As the game is set at the doom of the 3rd Age and presumably will be set at the birth of the 4th Age, it is the Age of Man. As such, Men should be the most populous race.
Most people speculate that race population is the main reason for man-only Captains. As the game is set at the doom of the 3rd Age and presumably will be set at the birth of the 4th Age, it is the Age of Man. As such, Men should be the most populous race.
If that is the case why are there more elf classes than dwarf, elfs are leaving middle earth, therefore their number is probably lower than the number of dwarfs
If that is the case why are there more elf classes than dwarf, elfs are leaving middle earth, therefore their number is probably lower than the number of dwarfs
There are already more Elf classes than Dwarf classes.
The way I see it, lore is followed loosely in this game. Therefore, I can see the possibility of other races becoming Captains with subtle differences. What I would suggest is giving them different names (as opposed to 'Captain'), weapon proficiency (as opposed to 'Halberd'), passives (healing modified depending on race), and renamed skills from 'of Men' to 'of the Free Peoples'.
DWARF
Inspiration: Thorin Oakenshield
Name: Sentry
Weapon: 2H Great Maul
Passive: Healing effects increased on Dwarves, decreased on other races.
ELF
Inspiration: Gil-Galad
Name: Sentinel
Weapon: 2H Bladed Longspear
Passive: Healing effects increased on Elves, decreased on other races.
HOBBIT
Inspiration: 'Bullroarer'
Name: Bounder
Weapon: 2H Frying Pan (Joking... Maybe a metallic 2H club?)
Passive: Healing effects increased on Hobbits, decreased on other races.
I think most of the important points against elf captains have already been made. However, there's a point which hasn't been made. We all already know that the elves will soon be leaving Middle Earth and that's a large part of why elves can't be captains in the game. Captains are not just leaders in war but in this case the leaders of the future. With the end of the third age and the fourth age being the age of man, it's obvious that an elf captain is not going to be a leader of the future.
That said, I'm not saying there aren't elf captains of note. However, most of these elves are dead, gone or planning to leave at this point. It was said earlier that there were obviously great elf captains in the first and second ages and that's of course true. Those same times are the reason we can't see elf captains now. Dwarves as a whole obviously do not get along with elves and elves with dwarves due to betrayals and problems from the first and second ages. That alone is enough to hurt any true ability of an elf of the late third age to be an inspirational captain. With some exceptions, elves are taboo or just legends to men. Look at the reaction of the Rohirrim with regards to elves in the Great River region. In general they're scared of elves and even call Galadriel a witch; although that is something the elves of Lorien encouraged.
As we know, the hobbits do not have a martial tradition at all and they prefer to hide and stay oblivious to the outside world. This is to the point where practically no one knows they even exist.
This leads us back to men. While men are not fully trusted in general that is not the case with individuals or even in large groups such as the Dunedain. Basically men are the middle ground between the other races. At least some men are basically known and respected by all the races and have more recent examples of bravery and such. Basically, while men in general have a weaker will than the other races, they do have many individuals and groups who are basically the opposite. Keep in mind that most of the peace and prosperity of Middle Earth in the third age is due to men. Dwarves are as secretive as ever in their own places, elves have pulled back into a few concentrated areas basically hiding out while many have left Middle Earth altogether. Men are clearly in the forefront seen moving to the future and leading the way. I believe that is the reason we shouldn't be seeing elf captains. The current state of Middle Earth and the free peoples do not truly allow for anything else.
Haldir, as portrayed in the movies has no bearing whatsoever on the lore of the game, which is based on the books. There is no company of elves in Helms Deep, only Men of Rohan, and the Members of the Fellowship that made that leg of the journey.
In he book there weren't elves at Helms Deep, right. But the were some Dunedain who brought the banner from Arwen ("grey company")
The way I see it, lore is followed loosely in this game. Therefore, I can see the possibility of other races becoming Captains with subtle differences. What I would suggest is giving them different names (as opposed to 'Captain'), weapon proficiency (as opposed to 'Halberd'), passives (healing modified depending on race), and renamed skills from 'of Men' to 'of the Free Peoples'.
DWARF
Inspiration: Thorin Oakenshield
Name: Sentry
Weapon: 2H Great Maul
Passive: Healing effects increased on Dwarves, decreased on other races.
ELF
Inspiration: Gil-Galad
Name: Sentinel
Weapon: 2H Bladed Longspear
Passive: Healing effects increased on Elves, decreased on other races.
HOBBIT
Inspiration: 'Bullroarer'
Name: Bounder
Weapon: 2H Frying Pan (Joking... Maybe a metallic 2H club?)
Passive: Healing effects increased on Hobbits, decreased on other races.
Dwarf - Thorin could not be the inspiration, he was more of a Clan Leader than just a Captain type. Clans usually DON'T have something like a Captain but I could see Sentry as unique though now you have to define what Sentry is because it sounds more like a Tank class or, since Men Captains are a combination of role parts, Sentry is the same but different abilities. A Sentry would need to Off-Tank without primary Tanking, perhaps more stealth and CC instead of Healing, finally some DPS and of course Buffing. No reason for the maul, dwarves favor other weapons but I would consider letting this class use bow or crossbow. I am not sure how to make a pet for this.
Dwarves need dwarven females too.
Elf - OK, honestly I have to agree more with what was said here, Elves are leaving and besides they have access to the second most number of classes in the game (7), do they NEED another? Elves need appearance fixes before another class.
Hobbit - Bounders are more like local authorities so I don't see them adventuring. I would make something more like a Naturalist or Herbalist given the Hobbit connection to nature, a class that used natural creations for Buffing others with a bit of Healing and Debuffing and DPS. The pet would be an animal rather than a Herald.
Glicyn, Man CPT; Drigrin, Hobbit BUR; Heli, Dwarf MIN; Eliyvan, Elf LM- Imladris
Soldiers of Gondor - Kin
I have a man capt, and im very happy with it, i just dont really understand why we cant make an elvish captain, i mean think of Gil Galad...and imagine how cool an elvish cappy would look :-)
Captains should stay men only
I shiver even at the thought of seeing a sissy looking elf male standing in that lame elf posture trying to look like a captain.
Elves should stay with their bows, pew-pew'ing shrews....
-¤-¤-¤- Errare humanum est, ignoscere divinum est -¤-¤-¤-
Dwarf - Thorin could not be the inspiration, he was more of a Clan Leader than just a Captain type. Clans usually DON'T have something like a Captain but I could see Sentry as unique though now you have to define what Sentry is because it sounds more like a Tank class or, since Men Captains are a combination of role parts, Sentry is the same but different abilities. A Sentry would need to Off-Tank without primary Tanking, perhaps more stealth and CC instead of Healing, finally some DPS and of course Buffing. No reason for the maul, dwarves favor other weapons but I would consider letting this class use bow or crossbow. I am not sure how to make a pet for this.
Dwarves need dwarven females too.
Elf - OK, honestly I have to agree more with what was said here, Elves are leaving and besides they have access to the second most number of classes in the game (7), do they NEED another? Elves need appearance fixes before another class.
Hobbit - Bounders are more like local authorities so I don't see them adventuring. I would make something more like a Naturalist or Herbalist given the Hobbit connection to nature, a class that used natural creations for Buffing others with a bit of Healing and Debuffing and DPS. The pet would be an animal rather than a Herald.
eh, just throwing in placeholder names there, thought up in few moments... The devs would have more time to think up better names, and they are probably much more versed in lore than I. Anyway, I am happy with my Man Captain, and only mention the possibility of branching the class out to other races as a route that may happen in the future.
Truth be told, there are times I wished I played as a Dwarf of Moria, with Captain-esque abilities to go with the leadership abilities of those who chose to confront the dangers of those mines after it was claimed by monstrosities of the deep. Wishful thinking, but Captain or no, I hope Dwarves get another class, as their current list seems a bit lacking.
There have been plenty of threads about this. Eventually it will turn into a flame war. *sigh*
Yes, elves and dwarves should be allowed to have captains. Plenty of precident in lore.
There is also the fact that each player character is actually THE unique character in the storyline, so one elvish/dwarvish captain isnt really a big deal. If it was, having hundreds of elves and hobbits running around middle earth wouldn't make any sense either.
Also consider there are elvish captain trainers in Loth.
Thats all I'll say on the subject, as I know the flames are a brewin.
THIS is a very intelligent and accurate post, and I'm sad that people have ignored it in favor of a harsher post.
Honestly, the arguments for Elves not having Captains is... off. In that case, we shouldn't have Elf Minstrels. And elves should only be Hunters, Champions, Guardians and Lore Masters, no other class, since they're the most fading.
Yet despite that, they have the second most classes. Which leads me to believe that the "fading" argument is a non-sequiter.
The elves and dwarves may be fading, but they haven't faded yet.
As for Hobbits being captains, there is actually precedent. Pippin and Merry, after all, led the hobbits against the lingering forces of Saruman -- and won. And while some people would be quick to point out, "That's an exception, not the rule", they should be quick to remember that Aragorn, whom the Captain was inspired by, was also an exception, not the rule.
There are arguments in favor of other races other than Men being captains, pretending there aren't is condescending.
Beauty is not a feminine trait. Strength is not a masculine trait.
Whilst I would like it, I'm actually against the idea. I would prefer a separate exclusive class for each race. Here's my suggestions:
Dwarf Miner:
Melee class/crafter. Can buff, but buffs only work on dwarves.
Passive Traits: Automatic Expert Prospector, increased hope whenever underground, with additional increase in Moria.
(Class Exclusive) Weapon: Pickaxe
Nosey/Hungry Hobbit (You Choose)
Annoys posthobbits. Gossips.
Passive Traits:
Nosey: Recieves mail 1 day after it is sent, decreased Mathom Society reputation, better sneaking.
Hungry: Increased Cooking skill, increased buffs from food. Decreased stats if 'Hungry' Debuff, which occurs if you haven't eaten for 1 hour.
Weapon: Voice (Cries)
Elf Traveller:
Leaving Middle Earth, for Valinor.
After Ered Luin, instead of leaving to Bree, the Traveller class has an exclusive option to go to the Grey Havens (Mithlond will be a new zone,) from which they will travel away from Middle Earth. The game will then display this message: "The age of the elves is over. The age of men has begun." The character is then transported to Valinor, where he will be for eternity. As this is an MMO, and few players have time for eternity, the game simulates this eternity, and fastforwards, using the Phasing technology, to the year F.A. 15694. The character dies, the game then ends, and the character is permanently deleted.
Passive Traits: None.
Weapon: Dagger.
Armour: Light
THIS is a very intelligent and accurate post, and I'm sad that people have ignored it in favor of a harsher post.
Honestly, the arguments for Elves not having Captains is... off. In that case, we shouldn't have Elf Minstrels. And elves should only be Hunters, Champions, Guardians and Lore Masters, no other class, since they're the most fading.
Yet despite that, they have the second most classes. Which leads me to believe that the "fading" argument is a non-sequiter.
The elves and dwarves may be fading, but they haven't faded yet.
As for Hobbits being captains, there is actually precedent. Pippin and Merry, after all, led the hobbits against the lingering forces of Saruman -- and won. And while some people would be quick to point out, "That's an exception, not the rule", they should be quick to remember that Aragorn, whom the Captain was inspired by, was also an exception, not the rule.
There are arguments in favor of other races other than Men being captains, pretending there aren't is condescending.
Everybody is missing the point of the arguement against Elf Captains. It's not... off. It's spot on. The Elves want to diminish their sense of responsibility and involvement in Middle-Earth. The idea is they can't do this if they are Captains. They want to fade, they haven't faded yet, which is why they don't train Captains. Having Human only Captains is a way of expressing the fact Humans will become the dominant force. It's expected that if someone keeps telling you something and you ignore it they're going to get frustrated.
Captains are supposed to be representative of military leaders. They Elves have not faded yet, and the idea is they can't do this if they take on leadership roles, especially of the military variety.
I don't follow your logic on deciding Minstrels, of all classes, shouldn't be allowed if there are no Elf or Dwarf Captains. That is a perfect example of a non-sequitar.
I'm definately failing in not being patronizing, and I ask for your understanding. But this seems to be a theme on this thread - a point has been brought up and it's either off-handedly dimissed or outright ignored in a most condescending manner. Why wouldn't this be a cause for aggitation?
On the other side, I'm not terribly against the idea of Elvish Captains, as they are not subject to standard mortality, and I suppose there would be a few leftovers from bygone days. But I'd rather support the vision and direction of the developers if I think it's a good one, and in this case it is, because the concept integrates itself with Middle-Earth as a mythology.
I'm for anything that makes this game truer to Tolkiens concepts, at least in part, and less on the sort of extremely bizarre half-sense that would turn this game into a second-rate World of Warcraft.
I don't follow your logic on deciding Minstrels, of all classes, shouldn't be allowed if there are no Elf or Dwarf Captains. That is a perfect example of a non-sequitar.
Someone said that Elves are fading and so aren't great for inspiration, or something like that.
But the entire point of Minstrel is inspiring your fellows in battle.
Ergo, if Elves cannot be captains because they cannot inspire, then they cannot be Minstrels because they cannot inspire.
I'm definately failing in not being patronizing, and I ask for your understanding. But this seems to be a theme on this thread - a point has been brought up and it's either off-handedly dimissed or outright ignored in a most condescending manner. Why wouldn't this be a cause for aggitation?
Indeed. Which is why I am agitated. Someone brought up a great point and it got dismissed because of Okamion's post. Not even addressed. Just dismissed and ignored outright.
And guess what? It's STILL being ignored and dismissed outright. Not even an argumentative breakdown. Just... ignored. As if it doesn't exist. And when brought up, implicitly implied that it's simply "wrong" without even so much as addressing it.
On the other side, I'm not terribly against the idea of Elvish Captains, as they are not subject to standard mortality, and I suppose there would be a few leftovers from bygone days. But I'd rather support the vision and direction of the developers if I think it's a good one, and in this case it is, because the concept integrates itself with Middle-Earth as a mythology.
And I'm all for game balance, and it's unfair that Men get a class that's unique to them, and no other race gets one. There are two ways to do this. Either make it a class that's not unique to Men, or give each race a unique class (except maybe Hobbits)
Obviously, the easiest one is to make it a class that's not unique to Men.
There is lore precedent, in the books, for Hobbit captains of all things, but whenever it's brought up, people plug their ears and shout the la la song ... and then use very similar lore to support Men being captains.
I'm for anything that makes this game truer to Tolkiens concepts, at least in part, and less on the sort of extremely bizarre half-sense that would turn this game into a second-rate World of Warcraft.
Elf Captains will make the game more like World of Warcraft? Now that's a non-sequiter.
Maybe if you guys stopped patting each other on the back for "intelligent posts" (translation: Posts I agree with, regardless of intelligence) and actually tried to talk instead of being condescending, maybe we could have a discussion instead of simply being dismissed.
And for the record, I am not calling your posts unintelligent, I'm just saying that the whole patting each other on the backs thing is annoying no matter who does it.
Last edited by Zachski; Jul 05 2012 at 03:57 PM.
Beauty is not a feminine trait. Strength is not a masculine trait.
Someone said that Elves are fading and so aren't great for inspiration, or something like that.
But the entire point of Minstrel is inspiring your fellows in battle.
Ergo, if Elves cannot be captains because they cannot inspire, then they cannot be Minstrels because they cannot inspire.
Indeed. Which is why I am agitated. Someone brought up a great point and it got dismissed because of Okamion's post. Not even addressed. Just dismissed and ignored outright.
And guess what? It's STILL being ignored and dismissed outright. Not even an argumentative breakdown. Just... ignored. As if it doesn't exist. And when brought up, implicitly implied that it's simply "wrong" without even so much as addressing it.
And I'm all for game balance, and it's unfair that Men get a class that's unique to them, and no other race gets one. There are two ways to do this. Either make it a class that's not unique to Men, or give each race a unique class (except maybe Hobbits)
Obviously, the easiest one is to make it a class that's not unique to Men.
There is lore precedent, in the books, for Hobbit captains of all things, but whenever it's brought up, people plug their ears and shout the la la song ... and then use very similar lore to support Men being captains.
Elf Captains will make the game more like World of Warcraft? Now that's a non-sequiter.
Maybe if you guys stopped patting each other on the back for "intelligent posts" (translation: Posts I agree with, regardless of intelligence) and actually tried to talk instead of being condescending, maybe we could have a discussion instead of simply being dismissed.
And for the record, I am not calling your posts unintelligent, I'm just saying that the whole patting each other on the backs thing is annoying no matter who does it.
finally...i was waiting for someone to say this. hopefully everyone listens
Whilst I would like it, I'm actually against the idea. I would prefer a separate exclusive class for each race.
I'm with this.
One thing I have to say, I just don't like the idea of what happened to D&D happening here. Originally D&D had certain classes restricted by race that gave each a flavor, unique qualities that made each race interesting and different. But then it became generic with every race able to access every class.
I can understand wanting more classes for races. Men have the most (8), Elves second (7), Hobbits and Dwarves last (5). If you want another class, I would ask to make them unique.
So now each would be somewhat like a Captain with 1 Primary and 3 Secondary roles but have a unique feel to it instead of a generic carbon copy for everyone. Really, should we just make the whole list generic with every race having access to every class? I like some variety meaning certain classes should be restricted by race. A perfect example, even though Tolkien Dwarves use bows they are known for axe use best maybe because it is so similar to a mining pick, look at how many Dwarves in game throw axes. So where is the unique Dwarven Axe-Chucker (or better name) class?
Last edited by Glicyn; Jul 06 2012 at 11:16 AM.
Reason: Correcting class numbers for Hobbits
Glicyn, Man CPT; Drigrin, Hobbit BUR; Heli, Dwarf MIN; Eliyvan, Elf LM- Imladris
Soldiers of Gondor - Kin
You know what, I can't keep supporting not having non-human Captains. Mainly because even though the idea behind Human- only Captains was that they would be military leaders. But they're not. They're cheerleaders in heavy armour. They can't lead a fellowship any more than Minstrels, Lore Masters and Rune Keepers. Their skill set doesn't support their proscribed reason for being. I can't ignore that truth just because they it is said "The Captain is a masterful leader". This just isn't effectively true.
Captains have little ability to direct outside of their mark placement, or their ability to draw threat. The reasoning is obvious, because they didn't want to create a controlling character, but that reasoning inherently eliminates having a military leader that can provide on field direction and bring order to battlefield chaos. So the name Captain is only cosmetic.
People are still completely ignoring the reasoning behind Human only Captains, but now I understand (for the most part) why, and that's because in-game and on the field, the reasoning doesn't have any practical application.
To address Zachski specifically:
Originally Posted by Zachski
And I'm all for game balance, and it's unfair that Men get a class that's unique to them, and no other race gets one. There are two ways to do this. Either make it a class that's not unique to Men, or give each race a unique class (except maybe Hobbits). Obviously, the easiest one is to make it a class that's not unique to Men."
What about the Rune Keeper? You almost decribed a Rune Keeper perfectly. Yes, Dwarves and Elves have to share the class, and Humans don't have to share. How badly does everyone want a new class is the question.
Originally Posted by Zachski
Indeed. Which is why I am agitated. Someone brought up a great point and it got dismissed because of Okamion's post. Not even addressed. Just dismissed and ignored outright.
And guess what? It's STILL being ignored and dismissed outright. Not even an argumentative breakdown. Just... ignored. As if it doesn't exist. And when brought up, implicitly implied that it's simply "wrong" without even so much as addressing it.
As far as this goes you did as good a job as anyone of ignoring whatever it is that is being ignored. I'm not certain what you're talking about. However....
Originally Posted by Zachski
There is lore precedent, in the books, for Hobbit captains of all things, but whenever it's brought up, people plug their ears and shout the la la song ... and then use very similar lore to support Men being captains.
This hasn't been ignored, it's been directly addressed by saying Men are supposed to be taking on the leadership role in the future. Zachski, no one is singing a la la song. We just haven't finished following through with our arguements.
Originally Posted by Zachski
Elf Captains will make the game more like World of Warcraft? Now that's a non-sequiter.
No it isn't. This game is more likely to be less and less like Middle-Earth and more like a ridiculous brand of fantasy, which is how I view WoW (and most fantasy-based computer games). The fact you're calling it a non-sequitur is a non-sequitur. We just haven't come to a decent understanding quickly enough to avoid mildly impertinent slights.
Originally Posted by Zachski
Maybe if you guys stopped patting each other on the back for "intelligent posts" (translation: Posts I agree with, regardless of intelligence) and actually tried to talk instead of being condescending, maybe we could have a discussion instead of simply being dismissed.
And for the record, I am not calling your posts unintelligent, I'm just saying that the whole patting each other on the backs thing is annoying no matter who does it.
You're guilty of this too, and that kind of stuff is to be expected somewhat in a format such as this, especially during intitial stages of discussion. It's hard to be both brief and thorough when making arguements and trying to understand where other people (especially an indeterminate group of debaters) are coming from. It's a skill, I'm sure.
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Originally Posted by droid
Elves are emo...who would follow them in battle?
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Hobbits and Men are in many ways the same; the only real difference is cultural, which is why Hobbits are barred from the more martial classes. The only classes Man is barred from tend to be ones that require more longevity than either Man or Hobbit are granted.
Droid's Combo-button Mastery for Wardens (AHK script): http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...button-Mastery
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But we have them. They're called Dwarves!
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