Thread: Ettenmoors one-sided
Jul 01 2012 04:56 AM #1
Reading the thread title you'd probably think i am going to complain about freeps being op (which they are).
However the problem in the moors is actually that freeps are too weak.
With only subscribed players being able to enter the moors on freep side they are horribly outnumbered. On the servers i play creeps, the map is completely red 98% of the time. This situation is bad for both sides as i can't find any opponents on creep side and freeps don't stand a chance of really affecting the map. This means less full scale battles over keeps and more ninjaing / ganking. Many creeps just log in to look/ask how many freeps are online and leave again if there aren't many, so the moors have a potential to draw in a lot more players.
As i see it the best solution for everyone would be to allow F2P freeps to enter the moors 7days per month. That way the balance wouldn't topple the other way towards a all blue map all the time and it still would be a good incentive for people to buy the subscription. Maybe even more so, as they can take a good look at the PvMP which is imo the best part of the game.
Jul 01 2012 05:18 AM #2
I think it best to just allow everyone to PvP, regardless of subscription type. PvP is a gamestyle and it should be a right, not a privilege. For a great company like Turbine to actually make people pay to PvP, I think that's actually affecting the PvP environment massively and the assumption that free-to-play characters are 'noobs' at PvP is just silly, and that's Turbine making the assumption by not allowing them to PvP.
Just saying. There shouldn't be a time limit. Free-to-play players must be granted the same PvP benefits as VIPs because I don't see anything 'pro' about being a PvPer, just elitist."One mind is enough for a thousand hands."
Jul 01 2012 05:49 AM #3
Finaly it has come to this. We f2p are bored just running around map (no questpacks instances no nothing).Freep want more then anything to go into moors.It would be fair to let f2p it wont be same as VIPs since they get all.I dont like the time limit idea but if that is only way I would accept it.FIGHT ON
Jul 01 2012 10:27 AM #4
Jul 01 2012 11:26 AM #5
What does that sopposed to mean mjk47?F2P should go into moors as freep
Jul 01 2012 11:52 AM #6
Look, the whole point of "Free to Play" is that it isn't. You get free access to some stuff, setting you up to buy more stuff with TP and/or real money. It's the real money WB is interested in. I suspect that WB isn't making much money off the Moors in any case, but they're certainly not going to give it away for free when some people can still be persuaded to pay for it.
Do I need to quote the definition of TANSTAAFL again?Eruanne - Shards of Narsil - Elendilmir
Jul 01 2012 12:42 PM #7
Jul 01 2012 12:48 PM #8
Jul 01 2012 02:50 PM #9
On my server the freeps control the map most of North American evenings and a great cry of anguish goes up if a freep group starts keep flipping (except for TR), for the same reasons you cited. The other night my kin even flipped to creep as the creeps were already facing massive odds against the freeps and it was an attempt to balance out the numbers.
But as noted, in the hybrid model that Turbine uses, there have to be incentives for people to want to spend money on a regular basis (subscription) or otherwise purchase TP on a regular basis. Since this is the weekly thread of "let the f2p in the moors on their freeps" you may want to search out previous threads for more commentary.
Jul 01 2012 03:37 PM #10
i should say that, even though the freeps are outnumbered, they're not outpowered. 50% (just a rough estimate) of the creeps out there are underpowered, underskilled, and lack the abitlity to do more than die. So really, adding more freeps, which i would love, by the way (i've got a guardian ive wanted to try out), just makes the odds one-sided again, only the one side is the good guys. Also, it fits the lore. Masses of pathetic creeps, small group of strong, loyal warriors that hold out against the stacking odds. It sounds fun on paper. If this idea were implemented, lots of monster players would drop out because of the impossible odds. They would just switch to freeps and wreak havoc. Personally, i love the idea, but there are some downsides. Perhaps if it were the same week each month, like "Ettenmoors week". Each week a month, everyone who wants may enter the moors as much as they want for the month.
Jul 01 2012 09:42 PM #11
I am not a VIP, but I still agree that VIP players need to get some major benefits over F2P since they spend $100+ a year while F2P play for free. I think Turbine should make PvP time buyable for TP, like Skirmish Soldier on Landscape kind of thing. of course, that might be as much as getting VIP for the month. If they could limit the amount you get a month, it could work.
Jul 02 2012 04:43 AM #12
VIP get benefits like quest packs tp and other.After I passed epic it got realy boring.Give f2p some fun.F2P should be allowed.VIP after that still would be getting much more.Moors should be free.
I checked some other games and they all got pvp free(not to tell whole game).What is in this????
I get bored but this is great game and turbine and WB are selfish.
Jul 02 2012 05:25 AM #13
As a F2Per who loves both LOTRO and LOTR in general, I would like to see F2Pers able to access the Entenmoors and have some fun PvPing. At least put it in the TP Store like a quest pack, arround the 590 mark where the other quest packs are around.
Its just annoying that my kin is trying to organise PvMP runs and to get the entire Kin involved we have to make a Mp equivalent of our kin because so many of our kin members are F2P.
Jul 02 2012 09:22 AM #14
Jul 02 2012 09:42 AM #15
I dont know the numbers but i have seen far to many "x" is over powered "x" is unbalanced ... threads . It is what it is and i doubt the developers are going to change much. what you are seeing is perhaps the way thing run on your server mine i know tends to flip flop some days its freep centric some days its creep centric. I am not a big supporter of PVMP at all so all i can say is that, unless turbine has undisclosed plans for the Ror expansion version of the moors the creeps will most likely auto level to the new cap of 85 the day of release and the poor beknighted freps will be behind the 8 ball for a week or so till they can level and gear up. Do the PVmPers deserve some love? Yes they do Should they get some love yes. But remember that asking for a change means calling the Mighty NERF hammer down on both sides for the sake of"balance" and that always bleeds over to the non-pvmp players in ways we so tend not ot like.
Jul 02 2012 10:18 AM #16
Jul 03 2012 12:32 AM #17
Playing a monster player when you want to go on your freep is like eating a snake when you want cake
Jul 03 2012 01:13 AM #18
You can go on your freep, you just need to subscribe. Turbine makes the rules when it comes to the game, and those are the current rules. Maybe they'll change some day, dunno, but if you want to go that badly, why not subscribe, it sounds like a good use of $10 to get many hours of enjoyment.
Jul 03 2012 02:15 AM #19Perhaps if it were the same week each month, like "Ettenmoors week".
No, if there is a time limit it HAS to be dynamic to not create population spikes.
I like the idea of buying the Ettens / time for it with TP (although 7 days / month still is better). Everything else in the game works that way. I don't see why not the moors in the first place.
Jul 03 2012 11:11 AM #20
Please, just subscribe, and leave the forum for better threads!!
Living is easy, with eyes closed!
Jul 03 2012 11:22 AM #21
Going 100 Turbine Points for a day pass (24 hours real time) means that you get a new discount if you are willing to spend real dollars buying Game Time. Although customers will likely complain and desire a 50 Turbine Point price point.
Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.
Jul 05 2012 06:34 AM #22
The way the it is set up creeps have all the advantages, and they have a gang mentality up their, I have and others have ben attacked by 5 to 10 creeps to one, not exactly even odds in any shape or form
Jul 05 2012 08:51 AM #23
But no, creeps do not have all the advantages. They have a disadvantage in mitigations, in healing, in avoidance and an incredibly large disadvantage in DPS. They have an advantage in morale (except against Guardians and Wardens ofc), which kind of doesn't mean anything without proper mitigations, and certainly doesn't mean anything against their counterpart's DPS.In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead
The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.
Jul 05 2012 12:26 PM #24Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
Civ II rules after all these years......
Jul 05 2012 12:34 PM #25
I think it would be nice if they came up with a way to let F2P freeps on the moors in a limited fashion. Nice for the F2P freeps to get to try it out as freeps. Nice for the Moors in that more population is generally desirable (except for the lag that results). However, it is "nice" for Turbine only if they can come up with a way to monetize occasional visits to moors by F2P Freeps. From Turbine's point of view, would be found money ONLY IF it doesn't cannibalize VIP subscriptions or discourage folks from going VIP. But selling tokens that give, say, 3 hours moors access seems like a potentially reasonable business model assuming a price can be arrived at that addresses the issues. Giving tokens away occasionally (lotteries, discounts, free sample of the week) might get folks who otherwise wouldn't try the Moors out there. Those who get hooked on Moors might become VIPs who wouldn't otherwise have done so.
Jul 05 2012 01:29 PM #26
Jul 05 2012 06:45 PM #27
Last edited by whheydt; Jul 05 2012 at 06:47 PM.
Jul 05 2012 08:33 PM #28
Jul 05 2012 10:54 PM #29
That said, it might be in Turbines interests to get folks to try the moors as Freeps without going VIP. Not like the Moors is overcrowded for the most part, and getting people to try it with less commitment might well be a good idea for them.
Jul 06 2012 01:07 AM #30Eruanne - Shards of Narsil - Elendilmir
Jul 06 2012 01:33 AM #31
Whether the Ettenmoors are crowded or empty is probably all the same to Turbine, and if it isn't--it's all the same to their corporate overlords at WB. Comes to that...I'm sure WB wouldn't care if no one *ever* logged in...so long as the money comes in.
--W. H. Heydt
Old Used Programmer
Jul 06 2012 03:12 AM #32
as a creep i dont want to see more eazymoders, which is going to happen cause the newbies die thinking we are npc instead of thinking we can walk, kite around them which after they group up and zerg everythingElilreth - r6 lvl 85 Hunter, Grishpaw - r8 Warg, Maukrai - r5 Reaver,
Drauthrak - r7 Blackarrow, Gwindol - r7 Spider, Shugak - r5 Defiler, Drauthnak r6 Warleader,
Jul 06 2012 07:11 AM #33
Jul 06 2012 08:16 AM #34
I expect little to happen, mind you, because the Moors is a side-show that attracts very little development effort. Which leads a bit to a circular situation -- low Moors population -> low Moors development -> not so desirable to play, repeat as needed. I'm mostly OK with that, have been out doing the Moors thing for a few months for a change, but generally prefer PvE for the long haul anyway. I do wish there was a bit more PvP development, because I think for some players at least there will never be enough PvE, and PvP can give more end game variety of experience while folks are waiting for the next content to be released...
Jul 06 2012 08:18 AM #35
I personally have played the game for 4 years, and only first tried PvMP 2 months ago because I wanted the Captain armor sets. Have been having fun since...
Jul 06 2012 10:53 AM #36
For one thing, if you make moors (Freepside) F2P then you are taking away one of the only special things VIP's still have. That isn't very fair to them.
For another thing, if you think Ettenmoors is one-sided now, just think of how it would be with even more op (as you said) Freeps running around. Lol I bet we would see mini/rk/warden packs running around everyday.
And for the record, I'm premium.
Jul 06 2012 10:59 AM #37
Ezmoding would skyrocket with a free Freepside moors.
Jul 06 2012 01:27 PM #38Eruanne - Shards of Narsil - Elendilmir
Jul 06 2012 09:16 PM #39
Jul 06 2012 11:28 PM #40