When a person maxes out a crafting skill, (forester, yeoman, tinker, etc) they have nowhere to go, other than making and selling. A suggestion would be, create the ability to stack crafts. If you max out level s in one area, allow the player to start on another ( each successful completion of westfold mastery of all 3 sets per craft will unlock the ability to purchase or learn another craft class.) The goal could be a crafting deed. Ultimate crafter, or something to that effect. Your thoughts?
I like the idea myself. As it is i can cover all crafts with all my alts but being able to add even one skill
would help on faction recipes (not having to have all alts at 70 to do dunland recipes would be cool if that
means 5 alts to cover all skills). Maybe a quest, even making it to where a skill can only be added
after ever 4 tiers or such. It may not happen but is a cool thought.
cya around
Beaglefan
Think very carefully about the consequences of this... I have level 75 characters, each of which is Westfold Master of all 3 crafting skills. Under your proposal, I would soon have a large stable of global master craftsmen. I hope you weren't planning to compete in the market....
First thing I'd do is make each character a universal gatherer by adding missing skills from prospector/forester/scholar....and simply strip the landscape everywhere I went.
(And to be complete...I also have a triple-Westfold Master at level 34 , and two each with 2 Westfold Master skills at levels 13 and 8.)
Think very carefully about the consequences of this... I have level 75 characters, each of which is Westfold Master of all 3 crafting skills. Under your proposal, I would soon have a large stable of global master craftsmen. I hope you weren't planning to compete in the market....
First thing I'd do is make each character a universal gatherer by adding missing skills from prospector/forester/scholar....and simply strip the landscape everywhere I went.
(And to be complete...I also have a triple-Westfold Master at level 34 , and two each with 2 Westfold Master skills at levels 13 and 8.)
On the other hand, whh and I both remember Crafting 2.0 in AC2 with fondness, a system whereby any character could train any skill s/he wanted, get fairly good in absolutely everything and/or specialize in one or two to the point where s/he was INCAPABLE of FAILING in that skill. ("Purple recipes? No sweat!") He was the top Spellbinder on Thistledown; people from other Allegiances would go to him, rather than their own allies -- on the advice of their own allies -- for difficult crafting because he could be sure of succeeding. I was the only Toolmaker on the same server who could make Tier 3 tools.
This suggestion seems cool on the surface but deeper down it's flawed.
In order to master something like these craft vocations one is putting everything into it. A life dedicated to the art. It isn't logical that everyone can attain the highest level of craftmanship in every vocation possible. That would be like saying once I get my PHD in Chemistry I am going to stop studying Chemistry and focus all my efforts on mastering Psychology, then after that, Medicine, and after that Cosmology. This isn't even possible. To top it off your abilities in Chemistry would greatly diminish because you abandoned it to pursue all the other arts, so you would not be able to create things in that field at the greatest mastery level anymore as your memory fades.
The whole point of only letting each character choose a craft is to encourage player interaction even if that interaction is with our alts..
By allowing players to -theoretically- max every craft in one character, you would be diminishing the in game economy / trade greatly. Turbine doesn't want that.
Crafting has already been far to simplified already and the interaction that was in place from the start has already been destroyed.
There was a time where you couldn't craft a crossbow as a woodworker without getting a piece from a metalsmith. And jewels were needed to finish some metalsmith and weaponsmith recipes. This was back in the time where it took over 5000 ore just to get through Master level (not including the first 4 levels). When you couldn't crit a recipe before hitting GM. Before F2P and the whining started.
As it stands, crafting is too weak (and easy), if you could have one toon who could make and farm everything, the crafting market would be utterly destroyed.
If you could reverse this idea and make it so that there was MORE of a demand for interaction between players to make things, I'd be happy.
There was a time where you couldn't craft a crossbow as a woodworker without getting a piece from a metalsmith. And jewels were needed to finish some metalsmith and weaponsmith recipes.
I have all seven crafters maxed in everything, who all started crafting way back in 2007.
They all still have those requirements. Just the other day my hunter wanted to craft a lower Tier weapon, and needed a metal component that only a metalsmith can craft. Same with my Tailor. He needed a polished Gem and I had to jump on my Jeweller to make it and mail it to him.
This interaction is still in the game.
Last edited by enginekid; Jun 29 2012 at 11:51 AM.
Got to say that back in the day I started on my Tank as a Armourer ( prospector, weapon smith, woodworker), managed to get through the first few tiers of crafting before the prices on the AH got to much for me, and I was forced to create my first alt, a Hunter who I made an explorer (prospector, woodsman, tailor). Before I knew it I needed other crafting professions to support this and on it went until I now have all crafts covered. This has also led to me trying out all classes of characters and finding new joy in the game. So if you ask me the old way is definitely the best because it forces you to either interact with others in game or try the game from a different perspective.
I like the idea of getting to choose the three craft skills you want instead of the set of three given. So there wouldn't be Historian (scholar, farmer, weaponsmith), for example, but you would pick the three, or less, that you want. Like picking jeweller, tailor, cook instead. Especially like the idea of being able to pick only one if that is what you want. So if I don't want to craft, but want to earn coin collecting resources to sell at AH I could take forester or prospector.
I like the idea of getting to choose the three craft skills you want instead of the set of three given. So there wouldn't be Historian (scholar, farmer, weaponsmith), for example, but you would pick the three, or less, that you want. Like picking jeweller, tailor, cook instead. Especially like the idea of being able to pick only one if that is what you want. So if I don't want to craft, but want to earn coin collecting resources to sell at AH I could take forester or prospector.
Think very carefully about what effect a bunch of Historian/Prospector/Foresters would have on the game....
Think very carefully about what effect a bunch of Historian/Prospector/Foresters would have on the game....
--W. H. Heydt
Old Used Programmer
Oh, I was about to respond to you as not seeing the catastrophic effect, but looking at your quote I see the problem. You put Historian as a crafting skill with two other skills. My idea would translate out as scholar/prospector/forester, as per your example, not historian with its three skills already plus the two others. The groupings of Historian, Yeoman, etc. would no longer exist. You would have just the subset skills (forestry, cook, farmer, tailor, etc.) to pick from.
Oh, I was about to respond to you as not seeing the catastrophic effect, but looking at your quote I see the problem. You put Historian as a crafting skill with two other skills. My idea would translate out as scholar/prospector/forester, as per your example, not historian with its three skills already plus the two others. The groupings of Historian, Yeoman, etc. would no longer exist. You would have just the subset skills (forestry, cook, farmer, tailor, etc.) to pick from.
Regardless what you call it, such a character would be able to harvest every single resource in the game. Scholar nodes, wood nodes, and ore nodes, and be able to process everything as well (including hide). That, I think, was the point - you'd have the markets flooded with over-harvested resources. Plus, as a Scholar, youd still be able to manufacture all the same consumables.
Currently, resources are valuable because they're in high demand (from people grinding alts, mostly), and in limited supply (because harvesting resources requires an investment of time). Being able to harvest everything at once would mean you could fill your inventory with resources 3x as fast. Supply goes way up, price plummets, economic catastrophe.
Originally Posted by kurotenshi73
...they have nowhere to go, other than making and selling...
If making and selling isnt an acceptable endgame, dont take up a craft What exactly is crafting for, if not for making and selling?
Thats like saying my boss needs to start giving me something for going to work all the time, besides just a paycheck...
I don't know how much faster it would be, two characters harvesting the scholar, wood and ore resources doesn't seem much different than one to me. Scholar resources are not necessarily found in the same locations so logging one pc in for the one and another for the second set is similar to traveling to both locations, maybe faster.
A good example of that is in Moria, as I just discovered. They have quests in certain locations to do just that. Nothing to stop someone from having more than one character farm those areas. I really don't see the threat of the market being flooded with resources nor prices catastrophically dropping since it isn't happening now with people being able to do just that. Probably because most people don't look at the game or crafting that way.
Last edited by BillinJax; Jul 02 2012 at 08:06 PM.
I really thing they should revamp crafting period. Make it so still of 3 crafting in on profession, how about allowing us to change which crafting we wish to do, instead of having professions.
“A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities.” -J.R.R. Tolkien 85 Loot Goodies
I really thing they should revamp crafting period. Make it so still of 3 crafting in on profession, how about allowing us to change which crafting we wish to do, instead of having professions.
So you can be a Woodworker/Tailor/Forester or an Armorsmith/Weaponsmith/Prospector or a Cook/Farmer/Scholar and have completely self-sufficient crafters?
The professions were specifically designed to be interdependent. Just be glad you can send stuff between your alts I know my Cook usually just goes to buy farmed food on the AH, rather than log on an alt, and I definitely bought lots of ingots from people when leveling WS on my Scholar, so interdependency does drive some economic interaction.
I would also prefer to have a better choice, even if it is limited to three. For example, rather than Historian as it is, I'd opt for scholar, weaponsmith and prospector.
To argue that it would have a negative impact on the economy is misguided. You'd still have to put in the time to harvest resources. Plus I know my server could use a little more AH activity.
I would also prefer to have a better choice, even if it is limited to three. For example, rather than Historian as it is, I'd opt for scholar, weaponsmith and prospector.
To argue that it would have a negative impact on the economy is misguided. You'd still have to put in the time to harvest resources. Plus I know my server could use a little more AH activity.
Well of course you would - you'd be trading a production vocation you cant use (Farmer) for the production vocation you need as Weaponsmith (Prospector). Thats circumventing the design intention, which is that your farmer sells food to cooks, and your WS buys ingots from prospectors.
If you could cherry-pick self sufficient crafting, you'd actually be encouraging less activity since no one would ever have to buy anything from anyone else, everyone could just do everything themselves - without even needing to level up alts or anything.
I kind of like the idea of the specialization, You have say, 21 total tiers you can get SPREAD ACROSS ALL PROFESSIONS. So you could be a level 3 everything (with a couple level 2's) or level 7 at three things. I think that accurately represents what a real person could do.
I kind of like the idea of the specialization, You have say, 21 total tiers you can get SPREAD ACROSS ALL PROFESSIONS. So you could be a level 3 everything (with a couple level 2's) or level 7 at three things. I think that accurately represents what a real person could do.
Ummm.... You do know that Tier 8 has been announced for RoR, right?
some players max crafting level easily, so it wouldn't make much of a difference if we're limited to 3 crafting trade or have all of crafting, once we reach the max, the question will always be what's next
i think it would be better if the developers design a fun way to use the crafted items other than having to sell it to npc vendors cause auction house is barely alive
and add ingredients that are currently exclusively sold by npc vendors to what crafters can make, like chicken eggs/pork shanks/uncooked pork/chicken, if would be great if farmers can produce these ingredients & either be a supplier to the npc vendors
Perhaps a alternative that would still keep the interaction would be to allow a character with a maxed out profession to:
Actually remember one-shot recipes (if good enough to be the best of the best should be able to remember or even - novel thought - write down that recipe).
Able to deconstruct those Guild recipes so that you would learn to be able to cook one of an item. For the life of me it seems inconceivable that I can cook 25 Superior Apple and Cheese Pies, but when it comes to creating just one, I can't because I haven't been hanging out with and trying to impress Théodred's Riders.
Tie it all to Mastery in the Tier and Master of the Guild if so inclined.
Time to remove the gated recipes and one-shots for those true professionals.
I thought about this idea months ago. I, too, have every profession covered so I can supply whatever any of my alts need. However, my concept would be that once you have all three of your initial crafts maxed out, you would be able to add others (one at a time), but would be unable to do the second tier of them. Then there could be a meta-deed for being a Renaissance Man and having reached the max available to you in each.
Another suggestion I have would be queueing crafting. Say you're a cook and want to make something that requires first making several ingredients. Queue up the ingredients you need to make, followed by the item itself. At some point either your tools would break or your bags would be full, so it's not like you'd be able to completely walk away from the game and have it finish massive amounts of production, but it would be great for 25 of something.
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Crafting Skills
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Originally Posted by whheydt
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What exactly is crafting for, if not for making and selling?
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