Thread: Small Group Role Play

Let's talk strategy and tactics - no names, no QQ

You are roaming the moors with your 5 best freep kinmates and you come across the 6 best high ranked creeps on the server out in the open and a clash ensues and magically no one else interferes for the duration.

The creeps have 1 WL, 3 BAs, 1 Defiler and 1 Stalker

6v6

What are the classes of the 6 best freeps in your kin and how will they fight that group of high skill, high experience creeps? All have 7 audacity and any traits/gear the best on your server would have. None on either side will accept retreat after death for the duration, only an in-place rez from their rezzer(s).

Everyone has all the cooldowns ready to use, the stalker is going to use both disappear and sprint to avoid death as long as possible and only come back with full morale each time after a getaway (in addition to whatever stance is right for each moment of the fight), the WL is going to save his first bubble until 1-2 seconds before the first creep would have died and the Defiler will call enhanced flies every 30 secs and generally hope to stay back out of combat to be most effective. The BA's will save moving target until it is needed and all four Uruks will use their uruk heals at the right time so that all 6 creeps get those heals as necessary. And yes the creeps know, for example, how to break shield wall immediately even if the guard has stun immunity. Also since they are the best on the server, they all have stacks of store pots and brands so each one can gain cc immunity for 1 minute at any point they need to. The creeps will play it to keep all of their 6 up as long as possible before the first one dies and will go after any newly rez'd freep with a vengeance. They know what freep inductions look like and will break all of the high importance ones every chance they get. And they are not going to waste any time attacking a guard while pledge is up or a cappy while last stand is up, etc. They are the best on your server.

I realize some will say get 6 good RKs or 6 good Wardens, etc. - that's not what I'm looking for, I want to know actual makeup of your best 6 freeps and how you would approach this fight from a strategy and tactics standpoint.

Think of it like chess, what moves will the freeps make in order to try to wipe that group of excellent creeps. What will you do to get the first creep dead? And how many and which of your team will already be dead (if any) when the first creep falls, etc.

1 minstrel = Win

I'd go 1 rk, 1 mini, 2 cappys, and 2 dps (probably 1 champ and 1 hunter). rk is healing, cappys are healing, mini starts in WS, but might drop if burst healing is needed and the dpsers dps. Basically have the rk run around and heal, the champ try to keep stuff off the rk, the mini dpses the stalker first (switches to the wl or defiler when the stalker leaves until he comes back), and the cappys get on the WL and defiler while throwing heals as needed.

Not sure how this would actually work, but this is just my idea.

1 rk, 1 mini, 1 cappy and two champs. Last one could be burg or lm as addle/windlore would be beneficial in this fight. Would also take another champ or fist warden with 5-set spear as the -incoming healing, shield breaker, and ambush could be huge. Wardens are also flexible and can change stance as needed. Minstrel is in full heal-mode until at least warg and one BA is down.

Focusing the warg first is stupid IMO. Freeps keep moving, put a champ/warden on BA duty to keep them moving and a warden should be throwing out all of the desolation he can. Keep inductions interrupted at all times, there shouldn't be a single green circle completed. Keep dots on multiple targets so the defiler has to share the love. A warden would be free to do anything he wants for at least 1 minute, most likely much longer than that as he will not be the first target. At no point should freeps be standing still for more than 2 seconds for inductions as needed.

First target should always, ALWAYS be the WL in a situation like this. In-combat rez/bubble will easily swing this in creeps favor and freeps have enough mitigations/bubbles to deal with burst damage from the warg/bas. As long as the defiler is moving and the champs time their horns well, WL will drop pretty fast. As soon as that WL is face down it is pretty much game. Freeps will easily be able to heal through dps from the creeps from what I have seen.

Where this fails-that is a lot of slows available to the creeps. Assuming there are some resists/misses at the beginning of the fight, creeps could keep ahead of wardens fears and -incoming healing. Lucky crit at the beginning gives the warg a knockdown on the mini and hopefully gives you enough time to drop RK 1/2 before he hits full attunement. Knockdown from headshot or warg tendon shred stuns RK. Creeps need to be tight and fast at the start of the fight, once healing is revved up I don't see things going favorably for the creeps. I haven't ever played around with brands so I do not know how dramatically that would change things but assuming all players involved use a brand I see freeps easily putting this fight away.

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

I'd go 1 rk, 1 mini, 2 cappys, and 2 dps (probably 1 champ and 1 hunter). rk is healing, cappys are healing, mini starts in WS, but might drop if burst healing is needed and the dpsers dps. Basically have the rk run around and heal, the champ try to keep stuff off the rk, the mini dpses the stalker first (switches to the wl or defiler when the stalker leaves until he comes back), and the cappys get on the WL and defiler while throwing heals as needed.

Not sure how this would actually work, but this is just my idea.

Switch out 1 cappy for an LM (windlore>BAs = win, +SI and tar/cc/wound cure etc ), LM will more then likely get some freecast time (warg will be occupied with healer/debuffing cappy and trying not to get nuked) that they will likely get off some aoe hurt as well.

Outside some extraordinary conditions atm creep:freep =/= 1:1 and creeps would require greater numbers to have a chance with a solidly built/played freep group.

LM Cappy RK Mini Hunter Champ

LM Debuffs/Keeps SI on Cappy/Mini

Cappy Heals, SoD or Oathies the warleader or filer

RK runestone, WoH and lightning DPS

Mini anthems, godmode heals, kites, whatever

Hunter pew pews and uses NH when needing inductions

Champ slice and dices, will never get targeted so can do whatever to annoy BAs/Healers

There are many group makeups that would suffice, but I think this would be one of the easiest if you're bringing a select 6 instead of the usual 24.

1.Healing RK/Minstrel
2. HoH Captain
3. LM
4. Hunter
5. RK(dps rips through Moving Target.)
6. Burglar

Destroy the WL first so he can't fire off his rez. Burglar should be harassing the Defiler and WL. Kill them all with maybe 1 death? Or you could even go for the WL last so you get 11 kills instead of 6. Creep healing imo(correct me if I'm wrong) shouldn't be able to keep up with Freep dps on any of the Creep dps'ers after the bubbles.

Now the tougher question is how you're going to get 5 other freeps that know how to PvP at all who don't dislike your well known play-style and are even willing to work with you on our server... This scenario you described is truly hypothetical because your groups usually average 12-24 people and you focus on having all the keeps blue more than actual PvP, unless it's 24 vs 1 of course.

I don't believe I said it before, but congratulations on achieving R13 even if you didn't do most of the work. I truly hope you try small grouping out, because sadly you somehow have a huge effect on how good or bad the PvP is on our server. But we know that most likely isn't going to happen because you've let us know how much you like big fights that are just like the movie ones... where freeps win.

Good luck.

I personally would go with:

1 RK healing, 1 cappy Healing, 1 LM dps traited (with increased SI length and group wound removal), 2 dps rk's and 1 burg.

The rune-keeper and captain should have no problem keeping the group alive, provided that stun immunity is regularly applied on the healers. The reason I would want 1 lm and 2 rk's dps'ing is due to the increased burst damage against creeps as well as the BA Moving Target not affecting their attacks. The burg should ideally have increased addle and enrage traited. Enrage cuts out about half of the BA attacks which reduces their dps output immensely. They can only pot it every 2 minutes and it can be applied every 5 seconds I believe.


As for which targets to attack first, that largely depends on if you want the fight to end quickly or not. I personally would target a BA first and try to force the warleader to bubble a ba. Both rk's should ideally save their perfect imageries and EC's until the ba is bubbled. At that point, both should pop PI then EC the defiler and burn him down. At this point, you can either choose to end the fight quickly by switching to the warleader who with addle and regular stuns/dazes will barely be able to heal himself, after which the ba's and warg will fall quickly or you can take down the ba's and warg, let him pop the res and repeat.

edit: I forgot to mention that I would keep the burg on the defiler at first

You could also switch out the burg with a warden who has the moors spear set. The stackable incoming healing debuffs would make a joke out of the defiler and warleader heals

/Aza

Healing RK
2 Lightning dps RK (or 1 RK 1 Hunter)
Healing Captain
LM
Burg/Mini for the last spot.

RK healing in the moors is rough to play against unless you are super coordinated with silences, disarms, stuns, and burst dps. Sadly 1 LM fixes a lot of those problems so its that much more difficult. Lightning RK burst dps can be ridiculous as well and MT from BAs mean nothing. Have the RKs use DNTF on each other at the start for instant rezzes. If you have a warden make sure he is spamming the healing debuff and the aoe fear (dont know much about wardens).

I'd say try to take down a BA or the warg first till he gets bubbled then quickly switch to the defiler (killing a WL with a defiler healing him takes way too long). Make sure the RK uses Essence of Winter for the healing debuff and keep him slowed. Have the LM keep up tar and WL on the BAs and dps when he can, Sticky Gourd ftw. Burg should be addling the WL/Defiler and enraging the BAs and disable on the warg. Once the defiler is down imo its pretty easy. Even with Uruk heals one WL shouldnt be able to do anything against 3 freep dps classes. Heck you could have the 2 dps RK focusing one target and have the extra dps class harassing something else cuz 2 dps rks can take down anything in a small group fight like that. The healing RK and cappy could last 5x the time it takes to kill all 6 creeps. Make sure your RK uses Perfect Imagery at the perfect time to take the defiler down and use the inductionless Writ of Fire on the warg when he can to prevent him from stealthing.

Also with the creeps on this server you gotta know you hit them a few times and they start to run away. So just trying to focus them will almost take them out of the fight. Another big thing is you have to have freeps that know how to improvise well according to the situation. Know when to switch targets and which creeps are easier and best to take down and how to stay alive. In a situation with 3 BAs tactical damage = win.

Originally Posted by viper0889

Also with the creeps on this server you gotta know you hit them a few times and they start to run away. So just trying to focus them will almost take them out of the fight. Another big thing is you have to have freeps that know how to improvise well according to the situation. Know when to switch targets and which creeps are easier and best to take down and how to stay alive. In a situation with 3 BAs tactical damage = win.

same could be said of freeps on the server as well.

There were awesome 6v6's going on before RoI, but currently with the way things stand, the only good 6v6's I think anyone will get is from veteran, ranked creeps.

I actually like Neal's suggestion, although really I would add a champion somewhere (DPS traited), perhaps in place of the hunter. Hunters are really squishy if you get him to melee range.

I notice nobody's suggested a Warden. Sorry man. Although to be most effective you would actually have to trait red and do some dps instead of leaching heals from NPC's

I suggest you actually use a balanced build for decent dps/finesse since your dps is basically nonexistance, and you claim to not be able to stack the spearlord debuff more than twice due to misses and b/p/e.(Should be easily stackable, just an FYI.)

I also suggest you do less Assailment leeching in group fights because you are making little-no difference, and use the set that shuts down healstacked groups. You should know which one that is.

Actually make a difference in fights, don't be a determination warden.

6v6 might be the worst senario for creeps if facing an ideally balanced, skilled and geared freep group.

You need 2 war leaders, and to get that you'll have to sacrifice important heals and debuffs (blight, flies) from the Defiler or drastically needed dps. At 6 for freeps, their healer has support and they have enough dps classes where they are going to burn down your single WL quickly, no matter how much healing you throw at him. So in your senario, there's really no chance for the creeps. Kill the WL who cannot bubble himself before fellowship's heart expires and the rest is cake. At least with two WL's you've got two bubbles to deal with which will give your dps'ers more time.

So what I'm trying to say is as long as the six freeps have a main healer - either RK or mini - and a capt to support, they're going to win. If they have an LM too, Eru have mercy on the creep's souls.

7v7 will be trickier. You'd have to dps the warg to get a bubble thrown, then switch to the WL opposite of the one that threw it. Kill him, then kill the other but you'll be dealing with that Defiler In Harms Way thing while the WL is rezzing his comrade. If you had a better balanced creep group by adding a nice high ranked Spider and Reaver for 1 each of the BA's, you could maybe do enough damage where you've got the capt down to LS and unable to heal so you can kill the mini and then the captain. If you're not all dead by then - the spider is nice for wte for wl to kite in - you've got a pretty good chance now.

But again assuming both sides are hitting brands? Yeah, really you're not going to have much of a chance even numbers against an equally skilled well geared group.

To answer your question, if I were a freep I'd go Mini, Capt, DPS-Rk, Champ, LM, Hunter. Kill the WL first with OB's on him. If defiler does IHW thing, switch to him then back to WL upon expiration. Id have all dps on him. LM in AM just for funzies. Windlore on BA, SOE on highest ranked BA, frost lore on Defiler, Firelore on warg. Kill WL, kill defiler, make wargs hips - he should be in flayer but you mentioned hips - get all three BA's to pop MT against the hunter, let the RK finish each of them off. Kill the warg if he comes back.

1 capt
1 rk
1 mini
1 lm
2 champs

instant win for me

In fact, I don't even need 2 champs, 1 will do.

I honestly don't think it matters what the group make up is. I had one typed out and had to delete because you can honestly put in ANY freep class.

Healer
Support healer (I think I would always use a captain if available)
Interrupter
DPS
CC/Debuff (I would always use an LM)
DPS/interrupt

I think all the classes have enough DPS to fill the dps roll (except captain). Honestly I think a healer, secondary healer and 4 dps would work just fine (no LM, Burg).