Thread: Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, and Night Vision

Does anyone know of any definitive statement by Tolkien that any of these races could see better than Men in dimly-lit conditions? This seems to be a common conceit in tabletop MMOs but is there truly a particular part of the book(s) that says that Elves, Dwarves, or Hobbits - as a race - had better night vision than Men?

I can only find anecdotal information that both supports and discourages this concept: Elves being born in starlight indicates that they *may* only need starlight to see. Dwarves live underground so *may* be more acclimated to partial darkness (however note that the company of Dwarves got lost in the darkness of Mirkwood along with Bilbo).

Clearly certain individuals have keen senses (Legolas' keen eyesight, for example). However, I'm at a loss where the common fantasy MMO theme of Elves and Dwarves having night vision comes from. They are obviously influenced by Tolkien Elves and Dwarves; did this concept of night vision come from anywhere in the books that I may be missing?

The Noldor born Laiqalassë of Gondolin was known for his great night vision as he led the survivors along the mountain paths. this comes from on of the lost tales and never made it into the silmirillion.

The only place that I've heard of Hobbits(halflings), dwarves, and elves having any sort of night vision is infravision by those races in the Dungeons and Dragons universe.

Well, I remember that Bilbo in The Hobbit had a lot better vision then the dwarves. When they were riding towards Mirkwood and Beorn was following them, and Bilbo was like "&&& is that?", and the dwarves replied "what are you talking about silly hobbit?" and Gandalf was all like "Hobbits have better vision then dwarves." Yeah.. But that's the only thing about vision that I remember. Nothing about who sees better then Men in the dark.

Originally Posted by Yugo45

Well, I remember that Bilbo in The Hobbit had a lot better vision then the dwarves. When they were riding towards Mirkwood and Beorn was following them, and Bilbo was like "&&& is that?", and the dwarves replied "what are you talking about silly hobbit?" and Gandalf was all like "Hobbits have better vision then dwarves." Yeah.. But that's the only thing about vision that I remember. Nothing about who sees better then Men in the dark.

"Mr Baggins' eyes are sharper than yours, if you have not seen each night after dark a great bear going along with us or sitting far off in the moon watching our camps." - Gandalf

I think he's saying something more along the lines of 'Come on, I know you can't really have missed that huge bear that's been shadowing us, guess what he'll do if you don't send the ponies back like you promised to.' I don't think Bilbo's eyes were really any sharper than theirs

There's a passage in the Hobbit that references hobbits superior sense of direction underground, since they are used to burrowing underground. I don't recall anything saying that Bilbo could see better underground than the dwarves or Gandalf.

There is also the Mirkwood stream event to consider:

"Bilbo kneeling on the brink and peering forward cried: "There is a boat against the far bank! Now why couldn't it have been this side!"
"How far away do you think it is?" asked Thorin, for by now they knew Bilbo had the sharpest eyes among them.

Hobbit eyes were adapted to being able to peer through clouds of pipeweed, that choked Hobbit holes, one wonders why Ted Sandymans mills belching out smoke caused a bother to those chronic smokers of Hobbiton.

Just a silly thought here, it may sound serious but it's all for fun.

At first it sounds odd to me that hobbits could see in dark better for merely living in burrows yet dwarves couldn't even see well...though they lived underground for much (or all) of their lives.

My personal take is that the underground terrain and above ground terrain require a different combination/amount of senses needed to navigate either. Dwarves were clearly out of their element by being outside and in the forests. Obviously enough.

They cannot feel/listen to the variety within the rock. They cannot smell nor taste the heavy air full of minerals. They cannot hear the 'tings' of picks nor smithy hammers (echolocation) either. Nor can they feel the pressure of the air or the sound of the air running through tunnels and tingling their beards. (Okay bad examp but when we feel cold air we often get goosebumps).

So here they are stumbling through a deep forest. Off-road, the ground is surprisingly 'mushy' in comparison to their familiar solid stone floors back at home. The wind is alarmingly random, coming in at all directions and times. Vines, ferns, etc may be everywhere, tangling their heavy footing. The smells are so fast and fleeting on the wind, or even overpowering that one might miss one thing for another. And they're expected to see a boat, amidst all this! :S

So the hobbit [I'll agree is not properly in his own element] since his childhood surely knows the grass, the leaves, and the sky is like "Hey guys, you see this here boat?" without a thought.

Amazing feat, to be sure!...but bring him into Moria and let him find a natural deposit of Mithril by his furry chin and he'll be just as stumped! Why, he probably couldn't find it unless he stumbled upon it. ;)

Just my two cents.^^

I don't know if Tolkien credited any particular race with having superior night vision, certainly I don't remember him putting it like that. I know he said that dwarves were less likely to lose their way in dark tunnels, but that had more to do with "not losing their heads", in other words keeping a sense of direction while underground when other races would become confused. The point I'm trying to make is I don't think it had anything to do with actual eyesight.

It would make sense for hobbits to also be good navigators underground, but I don't recall Tolkien ever crediting them with that ability. Hobbits did have excellent eyesight generally, as well as other senses that were sharper than humans and dwarves, they had very good hand-eye coordination for example, and excelled at throwing type games.

Elves had the greatest eyesight for seeing long distance, as evidenced by Gandalf frequently asking Legolas to describe for the others things that were much further off than any of them could see. I don't recall any specific references to night vision as such though.

Humans had the worst senses of all generally, as useless as dwarves above ground and getting lost very easily underground, unable to see very far or very well, it's amazing we survived at all really

It's anecdotal, but I'll mention Legolas' incredible night-time feat in FotR: taking a Fell Beast out of the sky, with no moonlight to aid his shot.

Originally Posted by BIGeyedBUG

It's anecdotal, but I'll mention Legolas' incredible night-time feat in FotR: taking a Fell Beast out of the sky, with no moonlight to aid his shot.

Good point, from one bank of the mighty Anduin river to the other, that is a long bow shot by anyones standards. Dropped it with a single arrow too, which suggests a head or chest shot. I'm willing to concede the possibilty of elves having superior night vision based on that.

I think its fair to assume that on average Elves have keener senses than the other races, they are, in general, superior in most ways. While that doesn't rule out members of other races surpassing Elves, on average, you'd expect the Elf to be more able.

The post suggesting Dwarves out of their environment while not in their mountain halls is a good post. I think that's a fair enough assumption to make. I doubt their sight would be superior, given that in pitch darkness the other senses are far more important anyway. As for making their way around in the dark, an Elf can probably hear and "feel" (6th sense sort of thing, eg feeling that someone is following you etc) far better than the other races. Saying that, there have been a fair few exceptionally skilled men who probably have very keenly developed senses too. Gollum had extensive knowledge of his cave network, so could probably (almost) get around with his eyes shut. I imagine a lot of Dwarves got around from memory too, at least partly.

I think it's generally accepted that Bilbo was, in all aspects, a fairly extraordinary Hobbit. Even then, his Dwarf companions may not have been the best at making out detail in the gloom of a forest.

I think it depends on location, really. If you were in Moria or Erebor etc you'd probably want a Dwarf for a guide. Anywhere else dark and unfamiliar you'd probably take an Elf. Overall though, Tolkien's works don't usually have such blatant a thing as "night vision". Subtle stuff is generally how he did things, so you'll probably have people who are "more able to navigate". Be that from familiarity, sight, hearing etc, it's usually up to you.