Thread: The Long Boring Road

Originally Posted by WindTamer

There are people who play the game AND have a real life.

But honestly, MMOs take time, this is not the game for you if you want to play "just like in the books".

You WILL get to Moria, but for now you should play in Loneland or the north downs - just like in the books.
This game is called Lord of the Rings online, which is sad, the old name: Middle Earth Online is more appropriate, because in this game it's not really about Frodo and his fellowship, it's about the other stories in middle earth.

It is not long way...it could be longer. I like it as it is and I have a steady job and real life too..

the problem with people is that they play just to max their level and think that this is where the real game begins...The game start from level 1 and enjoy your play time regardless your level.

Faster gaming experience means less content. You do the half of quests, you don't care to upgrade your armor because in some hours or in 1-2 days will be obsolete anyway. It will then be a meaningless experience and very boring. I never understood that. Either make an epic leveling experience or give people max level characters to play with. Nothing between makes sense.

As I said earlier, enjoy the game, don't look at your level and someday you will get to max level. If you don't have enough time to level up then why you think you will have enough time to play at max level when you will have to devote enough time for raids?

Originally Posted by WindTamer

Absoultely. I mean hey it's not my favorite thing in life. It's as simple as that

Is the favorite thing in your life complaining?
If you don't like the game, why do you play it? Do what you like more.

Don't rush. You said you are a Wii player so I guess patience is not one of your strengths. If I am wrong however, just play the game. You will get to these places eventually. Lotro is not a fast console game where you get everything from the beginning, it takes time.

You have a life? Great, so it will take you a bit longer, since you don't have so much play time.

Originally Posted by WindTamer

Ya know that was one of my ideas: go sightseeing to those places despite the fact that you will die quickly. How far do you think I would get in my travels without being overwhelmed and running scared ?

I have seen a level 20 reaching Isengard. I did it at level 43. It's a level 70+ zone btw.



Back to your original question.
If you pick (3), you will do the community mostly a favor. Insulting everyone who enjoys the game does not help at all.
If you pick (2), you do Turbine a favor
If you pick (1), you probably get most out of the game. But extend it a bit with "I'll enjoy what I play rather then hoping for what I can't reach yet"

So pick up a dice, roll it. The values 1 and 2 stand for the option (1), 3 and 4 for option (2), 5 and 6 for option (3).

If you are having a problem enjoying "the ride" through the game already, then maybe LOTRO just isn't for you.

I, too, have a life. My time is spread out between a million and a half things, but I have somehow been able to achieve a couple hundred levels spread out over different characters and servers.

If *i* can do all that, then there is no reason why you can't.

You seem like the type that will get to the max level and go "now what do I do?"

Great way to start a thread, insult most of the people playing the game. Unlike WOW no one has ever died playing this game.

We all have real lives, it's rather pompous to assume we don't.
My real life is being unemployed due to emphysema and arthritis. But that doesn't mean I have nothing to do but play this. My mother is a retired widow and I do for her. My best friend has lost both legs do to diabetic infections, so I do a lot for him too. When I am not busy I play this. That is an hour here and an hour there, maybe a few in the evening; being an insomniac and only getting 3-4 hours of sleep means I play for a while late in the evenings or maybe in the wee hours of the morning.

But you not having time to play does not give you the right to insult me.

I have my first character is through the lone lands, my second half done and my third just getting there. My 4th is just getting to the barrows. If you had read the book you would know what to expect from the game. A lot of time on the road.
This is an epic MMO. Look up epic.

If you don't have the time to play maybe you should try some thing faster and easier, I hear angry birds is a fast game to play. But I'd avoid FRPGMMOs, they all take more time to play then apparently you have.

If I were you, I would:

3. Forget lotro altogether and play more Wii.

Cause that is a real life.

Those of us that play 48/7 object to your blatant stereotype that we do not have 'a life' as you call it. No Shards of Narsil for you! /reported


(apologies to TSK)

Originally Posted by hitm

Isnt this penurious?

When you find what he said is 'condescending', dont you think the problem is at your end?

You could have answered: I have a life too and I see no problem with leveling in-game

But you couldnt. Why?

And he not is alone in finding OP condescending.

You know why? Because OP has an arrogant and rude attitude. Think about it: someone introduces himself to a group by saying basically that they are all losers with no life.

I find it extraordinary that in fact some people even bothered to answer OP. Very mature community.

Originally Posted by WindTamer

What on Middle-Earth am I to do?

Don't sweat the small stuff and ... everything is small stuff.

A friend of mine and I are leveling a couple characters together. We started after the Mines of Moria came out and play for about 30 minutes to and hour and a half every few days. Sometimes we string a few nights in a row together. Sometimes we got a few weeks between adventures. I have a guardian and my friend has a rune keeper. We reached level 51 a couple weeks ago and finished all the Vol. I epic line. We're finishing up a little grinding to get our class legendary skills and we'll be venturing to Moria soon. Years after it was first released.

Just have fun doing what you're doing. You'll miss out on the end-game hoopla, and will miss the changes that get made to it as it becomes old content, but you'll still get to see it and play in it.

Originally Posted by hitm

Isnt this penurious?

I learned a new word today - though looking at the definition I'm not sure I understand its usage in this context. miserly? destitute? inadequately supplied?

Originally Posted by hitm

When you find what he said is 'condescending', dont you think the problem is at your end?

Do you really think that's how it works?

Originally Posted by hitm

You could have answered: I have a life too and I see no problem with leveling in-game

But you couldnt. Why?

I didn't (not couldn't) because other people had already covered everything but his attitude, so I would have just been repeating them.

OK you know what, I can normally let the insulting things that people say online go but your ridiculus. We all have real lives. The only people whose real lives intertwine with LOTRO are those that work at the company. I have a life but I still manage to find time to play. I am in college, I have my associates and am working on my bachelors in psychology. I also have a two almost three year old. I play while he naps, I play while he plays with his cousins that came to stay the night. I live my life too. I go to public events in my area, see the motocross and the circus with my son. Go to family BBQs, do the grocery shopping and live a life just like everyone else. So if you think that your better than me you can just go ahead and pick number three. Insulting people who have slightly more time than you to play, or that do beta to help improve the game for you, or all of those people who have reported bugs in the game so that your game progression doesn't come to a halt simply because of an in-game bug, is just not a good idea. It seems you have outraged at least half of the comunity and frankly they will remember it when you come asking for advice when you mess up your moria intro quest and lose your first LI's.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Nakiami again."

I skip the Lone Lands altogether except the Epic Quests. Oh, and that one cool part near the Forsaken Inn!

Mmm...

I tend to think as the Asian philosophy indicates: "Life is not as much as reaching a destination, but the actual traveling to it"

Thus I personally enjoy the leveling process through a very nice world, by now I have already achieved 75 with three of my alts, and now I have one at 58 and well on her way to 75, I do have 3 more at 32.

All zones have their pros and cons, I really enjoy the lone land missions centered around the forsaken inn, weathertop and Ost Guruth; but I deplore going to the red pass, and the other zones there, but thankfully the North Downs have the same level spread and makes a good alternate place to go when the Lone Lands become a tedium and a handfull of annoyance.

I find doing the quests and be lead thru them to the next zone and eventually the known world, to be actually quite productive towards leveling; there are a few areas that break the rule and thus I avoid, these being: Barrow Downs, part of Lone Lands, Trollshaws, and the Upper end of Angmar. If I could avoid Boria, err Moria, I would.

To help with having else to do, do get int crafting, by now I have 7 alts and all major crafting professions covered, all 7 of my alts are T-7 master and I am perfectly capable of crafting anything in the game and fully outfit my alts.

Another thing to consider is have a Hunter, exceptionally great travel powers, and when making them explorers, you will be able to harvest any ore, leather or wood. I find prospecting and selling unrefined materials to be relatively speaking lucrative, and thus putting a little money in your pocket to buy nice things.

Then there is the exploring, Turbine artists have really sculpted many breath taking places and vistas, really worth while to just go touristing.

Want to get some kicks? Remember when you were level 10 and this spider kicked your bunns? Its very pleasant to come back at 75 and give ti some payback, ha ha ha

Another real big aspect in the game, at least for me, is the socializing, making friends and simply chat away...

So play the game, but don't forget to have fun in it

Sue

funny, how so many folks show such a harsh reaction in concern of this "real life" stuff... insulting? Looks very much like he migth have touched something, don't you think so?

Let's admit it, Lotro is not the "real life". I do not see anything of an insult here. And it is not that it presumes that folks playing Lotro dont have a job or families and so on. I would say it is more about how you spend your leisure time. You can spend it in "real life" or you can spend it playing Lotro or you can spned it in any degree of mixture of the both. Adn it lies within teh nature of MMORPGs that you advance faster (in "real time") if you spend more of your spare/leisure time with the game than iof you spend more time in this "real life".

Now why does anybody feel insulted by teh "real lif" sentence? I really wonder. The only solution that comes to mind is, that some people have a deep inner feeling that they possibly indeed spend too much time in this game, and they try to defedn it before themselves?

I am not a psychologists, so don't take my thoughts too seriously.

Now start the bashing ;-)

The Lonelands is largely a microcosm of the rest of the game. It never really does get exciting.

I loved it from 1-25 or so, but the rest of the game is pretty much just a slog. (Trollshaws has its moments)

Originally Posted by Talaixa

funny, how so many folks show such a harsh reaction in concern of this "real life" stuff... insulting? Looks very much like he migth have touched something, don't you think so?

Let's admit it, Lotro is not the "real life". I do not see anything of an insult here. And it is not that it presumes that folks playing Lotro dont have a job or families and so on. I would say it is more about how you spend your leisure time. You can spend it in "real life" or you can spend it playing Lotro or you can spned it in any degree of mixture of the both. Adn it lies within teh nature of MMORPGs that you advance faster (in "real time") if you spend more of your spare/leisure time with the game than iof you spend more time in this "real life".

Now why does anybody feel insulted by teh "real lif" sentence? I really wonder. The only solution that comes to mind is, that some people have a deep inner feeling that they possibly indeed spend too much time in this game, and they try to defedn it before themselves?

I am not a psychologists, so don't take my thoughts too seriously.

Now start the bashing ;-)

Ignoring outside stigma on gaming and solely focusing inner discomfort* does not make for a very good analysis.

*(which will vary from person to person from "I don't give a ****, nor should I" to a bullied "nerdy" kid. One could argue any inner discomfort is a product of outside pressure)

That said, implications of having less of a life than someone else (an easy conclusion to make from the OP as he directly set up an inverse relationship between game time and having a life) have been historically used as insults in internet land.

Originally Posted by WindTamer

Unlike some people that play lotro, I have a real life.

What an obnoxious start to a post.... If you think leveling in this game is difficult then you should definitely quit and go play your Wii.

Originally Posted by Talaixa

funny, how so many folks show such a harsh reaction in concern of this "real life" stuff... insulting? Looks very much like he migth have touched something, don't you think so?

Let's admit it, Lotro is not the "real life". I do not see anything of an insult here. And it is not that it presumes that folks playing Lotro dont have a job or families and so on. I would say it is more about how you spend your leisure time. You can spend it in "real life" or you can spend it playing Lotro or you can spned it in any degree of mixture of the both.

etc etc.

Your post means nothing because it doesn't address the point of what was said in original post. He did not say that lotro is NOT real life. He said that certain people playing lotro do not HAVE a real life. (Huge difference...There is not one person on the forums that would disagree that lotro is not real life. The disagreement is over whether there is anyone playing lotro that does not have a real life. Speaking of that...

Unlike people that go out every weekend getting drunk and acting stupid: I have a real life.
Unlike people that read books all the time: I have a real life.
Unlike people that listen to music all day long: I have a real life.
Unlike people who work all day: I have a real life.
Unlike people who play instruments: I have a real life.
Unlike people that shop all the time: I have a real life.
Unlike people that watch TV all day: I have a real life.
Unlike people that play farmville all day: I have a real life.
Unlike people who post on facebook all day: I have a real life.
Unlike people who cook all day: I have a real life.
Unlike people who study all day: I have a real life.
Unlike people check e-mails all day: I have a real life.
Unlike people doing a desk job: I have a real life.
Unlike people that sit around all day looking at forums: I have a real life.
Unlike people that exercise all day: I have a real life.
Unlike people that watch football all the time: I have a real life.
Unlike people that play sports: I have a real life.
Unlike people that....etc....

The point is that online gaming as part of your real life is no less valid then any other life activity and yet generally online gaming is used too often to declare someone having no real life if they online game. Whereas actually: Watching TV all day never using your brain is my least favorite activity.

Honestly: I only play lotro once a week or so for about an hour.. Um...leveling is fast btw...
I spend a lot of my time studying or practicing instrumental and vocal performance or writing. However, I would not say that any hobby that anyone devotes a lot of time to is not a 'real life' which is what the suggestion was. Every hobby could be a target with that type of attitude. There are people that believe that I have no real life by spending hours studying music. There are people that have told me that my teaching of music isn't a real job.

The real sad thing is that there really are people out there that cannot see past their own selves and judge everyone according to that. The lotro forums should be a tool to bring everyone together in the community with a common interest in playing lotro rather than ever put any remark purposefully to offend. There has been more and more posts on forums like this. Sad. Lotro generally has a wonderful community but usually the best of people are the targets of the worst types of people.

Strange...I work full time and have a family yet I still managed to get a character to max level long ago. Sounds like you just need to learn how to play the game. Be efficient and stop whining.

Hey mate, try mixing the Lonelands with doing quests in the north downs it feels like less of a grind.

P.S As for the no life comment, Well the only people that could be offended by that, are those who deep down truely know they have no life. If they had a real life they would have simply read through it like i did thinking you were talking about someone else

Originally Posted by WindTamer

Unlike some people that play lotro, I have a real life.

Me too, I'm an elf, a human, a hobbit, etc. all of them at the same time.
Whats is a real life? have a job, kids, sports, marriage?

This is a very interesting discussion I had long time ago. Some people seems to forget the fact that when someone plays a videogame the "real" person behind the screen doesn't dissapear, the real life is still there as someone sitting in front of a computer.

Another interesting perspective (I dont remember where I read it) is the fact that when we do things, feel, live or believe, "something" happens and that becomes real in our lives.

All those feelings we have here are real no matter if Tolkien's world is pure fiction. Remember that.

Originally Posted by WindTamer

Unlike some people that play lotro, I have a real life. I must admit this is a very fun game but right now I'm stuck in the Lone-lands, one of the most looked over locations in the trilogy. One thing that got me into this game was the idea of going big places and having adventures just like in the book. I want to see Rohan and (eventually) Gondor. I want to slay orcs in Moria and (dare I say it) MORDOR! But at the rate I'm going I may not get to any of those places until I play for a decade. The way I see it I have three options

1. Try and be patient and Content until I get to great enough level.

2. Spend lots of money on xp boosts to get there faster

3. Forget lotro altogether and play more Wii.

What on Middle-Earth am I to do?

Its basically a matter of logic.

LOTRO its a game hence, its meant to be fun, wether your character is in lvl 5 or if its caps, no matter where you are in the game, its supposed to be fun.

Now for what youve written here its apparent that you are not having fun, and you seem to say you will not be having fun until you reach caps.

As someone that has managed to reach one of his characters to lvl 75 I will be frank and assure you that it will take quite a while to do so and if you play only once in a while I can deduce it will take you a few years to reach caps level.

In conclusion if you are not having fun on a game that is supposed to be fun along the road and not solely at the end, which will take you years to reach and/or a quantatious investment; then my recomendation is you quit alltogether.

why torture yourself and players, who are enjoying themselves, with a negative attitude toward the game, when you can spend your time in things that do not frustrate you.

As said its a matter of logic.

Here's a real answer for the OP that offers either advice on his situation or a path to 75 in about 6 months even if he doesn't play a lot.

First of all if you don't play a solid 4 to 6 hours a week you're not getting to 75 likely. You probably won't get to the end of Mirkwood before the game shuts down. A good indicator for you on this is how long you have already been playing and what your top level character is. If you've been playing for a couple of years and have not passed 33 yet then you're not going to get to endgame anyway so you might as well just enjoy the zones you go through for flavor and fun in the limited time that you choose to play the game.

The ability to level well on a very limited time budget to play is really dependent on having other people to play with and LOTRO is a ghost town after Bree until Eregion or even Moria. It's not much more than a ghost town in those areas either but you can find people to group with from time to time. Evendim is the place a soloist can really break wild and get some levels on their own on the hour at a time budget. This is because the quest hubs all offer real advancement and their objectives tend to be close enough together to cut down the travel time.

Lonelands is a bloody nightmare for a solo leveler on a limited play time budget because travel is most of the cost of leveling. North Downs is just a bloody, ill-conceived nightmare for a player base where grouping is a rare event. Half the zone and a significant part of the quest chains require groups to accomplish and so there's no point to spending time there for a low level trying to get to 30 where Evendim becomes a glimmering on the horizon.

Ok, so if you spend the 4 to 6 hours a week leveling this is the progression you should use from 20 on to actually get to endgame in 6 months. You'll lose a lot of the flavor of the game but you will get to endgame.

20-24 - Do skirmishes and nothing else.
25-28 - Do just the Ost Guruth quest chains. Do not travel away from Ost Guruth in the process except to go west a bit for the spider quests, south a bit for the orc quests and then east against the undead. Don't do the epic chain at all. It will cause a lot of travel time and the quests themselves are fairly unrewarding in terms of experience.
29-30 - Do skirmishes again.
31-40 - Just move around the quest chains and do everything Evendim has to offer. Skip the treasure quests and Annuminas entirely. The treasure quests cause a lot of very inconvenient travel for low reward and Annuminas requires a group to do well on-level. The city that is, not the instances - which require a good group.
41-44 - Back to skirmishes.
45-46 - Do the Aughaire quests in West Angmar. Skip the epic stuff and East Angmar entirely.
47-50 - Do Eregion starting in Gwingris and clean out the quest hubs. It's slower than you'd like due to travel time but if you bind in each quest hub as you reach it you cut travel time down a lot. Buy the upgrade to a 30 minute milestone, it's worth it for this zone but will be golden in Moria.
51-60 - Do Moria. Do the epic quest chain straight through and each hub as you reach it. Moria is like a racetrack now and you will not be able to complete more than two thirds of the quests before you are 60 and ready to move on. Do the epic though because you get 3 skirms out of it and you will need them.
61-62 - Continue epic into Lorien and do Haldir's stuff. Don't do the daily quests against the orcs more than once.
63-65 - Do the Mirkwood opener chain and all the epic stuff at the Haunted Inn. Go straight from there on the epic path and you will be out of the zone before you know it. Do all the epic quests because they grant you another 5 skirmishes you will need. You'll do almost no side quests at all after the Mirkwood openers.
66-71 - Dunland. Just follow the quest chains from Trum Dreng or Bonevales to Galtrev. This entire expansion is designed to get you to a quest hub and gain you a half a level every hour or two with sound play. Just take advantage of that.
72-75 - Great River. Ditto.

There, you're at endgame in probably 80 hours played, assuming you don't do anything but level in that time span and avoid the time sinks that travel causes. What you will wind up doing at endgame on that limited play budget is unclear but you got there.

There is some great stuff in Lone Lands. I was very excited when I first went there. I mean Weathertop!! And you can climb it! And you see a stone with Gandalf's mark on it! And Forsaken Inn (ok, it's mentioned only once in the books but for some reason when I saw it I was happy to see it). Then there is a famous person meet, and a famous person's sister, and the first time seeing some unusual turbine-invented people/things.

Then there's Trollshaws. A lot of people hate that zone, it is kind of light on quests, but it has some other very interesting stuff there from middle earth.

You know? I responded to WindTamer's post before I read the responses. I saw the "I have a real life" comment as a sign of his frustration. I'm a little surprised folks took it as an insult, but on reflection it makes sense. Not because the comment was condescending, but because those who found it offensive show themselves as a little insecure, and apparently easily angered.

Kudos to all those who addressed that anger and showed that it's actually misplaced. There are, indeed, decent people who play this game and visit the forums

I guess I just don't get it. Why would someone want to stay in a game they are not enjoying?

Doesn't make sense to me but to each their own.

i do not like the OP's approach.

do not insult people you ask for help and do not try to one-up them. trying to put yourself in the one-up position just make you look pety and sad... especially considering you need something from people you do not respect.

so, to stay on topic:

i suggest #3



and to continue the steotyping (since you started it with lotro=no life), you must be 8 yrs old. enjoy your Wii time. my nephew gets to play Wii for one hour a day if he doesnt whine. maybe you could learn something from him.

I've been following this thread quietly so far. But now I just have to point to a fundamental misconception in the OP as well as in many responses:

There is no real life, only afk.

Apart from that, what really, i mean deep, deep down at the bottom of their hearts, made so much users angry might be the following:

If the OP had just said "I have to be afk rather often" (note the missing comparison to others!) then, presumably, everything would've been fine. Yet, by using a comparison, there is an implicature, though not an implication, to the effect that those who are not as often afk as the OP somehow lack that strange thing called "real life".

Facts can be stated in different ways, not all of them conversationally adequate.

Personally, I think if he had a better life he wouldn't be complaining so much.

I'm just hitting the Lone Lands at 22 and finding them interesting. I am going back to the Barrow downs for now, though since as a hunter I can seem to manage it, although I think I'll need help or more levels against some (but not all) the named there.

As I have been enjoying the content as I have been hitting it, I am enjoying the journey and thus not panicking about levelling. It seemed slow for a bit around 17 too, but I found new spots and soon I was 21st. It seems slow for a bit now, but I am sure soon enough levels will zoom by again, at least for a bit.

There are much more tedious games to level in (both in terms of rate and entertainment factor).

Originally Posted by Vhivi

You know? I responded to WindTamer's post before I read the responses. I saw the "I have a real life" comment as a sign of his frustration. I'm a little surprised folks took it as an insult, but on reflection it makes sense. Not because the comment was condescending, but because those who found it offensive show themselves as a little insecure, and apparently easily angered.

Kudos to all those who addressed that anger and showed that it's actually misplaced. There are, indeed, decent people who play this game and visit the forums

I'm sorry, but the comment by the OP was condescending, and just because I think so doesn't make me insecure, so thanks but no thanks for your veiled insult.

To the OP - if you are not enjoying the journey then there is nothing amazingly exciting at the end of the game that will make it more so all of a sudden. I spent 5 years on the journey and only hit the level cap and the end of the epic story a few weeks ago, now I am pottering about catching up on a few deeds and waiting for an expansion so the story will move along again.

Originally Posted by trcanberra

I'm sorry, but the comment by the OP was condescending, and just because I think so doesn't make me insecure, so thanks but no thanks for your veiled insult.

.

I have to go along with this. His last two threads opened up with an insult, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by WindTamer

... I want to slay orcs in Moria and (dare I say it) MORDOR! But at the rate I'm going I may not get to any of those places until I play for a decade.

I once created thread Unreachable lvl75 because my friend enjoyed Shire and wanted to see Moria, Lothlorien, Isengard, Rohan and experience mounted combat. But when I told him how much time (and money) he has to invest to lvl toon to 75 he gave it up.. (I took him there with my Hunter but seeing is not playing)
I know leveling is fast and there are many great places in low lvl areas.. But I understand too that it could scare new casual players. I would like that Turbine create at least low-lvl mounted combat skirmish..

Originally Posted by Hallmund

I've been following this thread quietly so far. But now I just have to point to a fundamental misconception in the OP as well as in many responses:

There is no real life, only afk.

Apart from that, what really, i mean deep, deep down at the bottom of their hearts, made so much users angry might be the following:

If the OP had just said "I have to be afk rather often" (note the missing comparison to others!) then, presumably, everything would've been fine. Yet, by using a comparison, there is an implicature, though not an implication, to the effect that those who are not as often afk as the OP somehow lack that strange thing called "real life".

Facts can be stated in different ways, not all of them conversationally adequate.

If he had merely said that he couldn't play due to real life issues, that would have been fine. But he explicitly stated that there are LOTRO players who have *no* life, and insinuated that anyone who has enough time to get to the level cap in less than a decade is one of those people.

Sounds very insecure and defensive, in addition to being insulting. We see his type in glff all the time on my server--people who are very concerned with letting you know how cool and "not stereotypical gamer" they are. It's painfully obvious to many of us that they're overcompensating, but at least many of them end up in the same kinships so we don't have to hear as much of their juvenile posturing in public channels.

Originally Posted by Mirarian

I guess I just don't get it. Why would someone want to stay in a game they are not enjoying?

Doesn't make sense to me but to each their own.

It's called potential. I can see the games potential thru all the bugs that never get fixed.I don't enjoy a buggy game but if i raise enough guff about it they(bigT) might do something to fix it. Because I know if I don't say anything about it, it will NEVER get fixed. I just want what I hope everyone wants is a finished product that works properly, and as a customer I would like to have some kind of accountibility for the lack of action to make it that way. I don't think I'm asking for more than I'm paying for.

this is my personal thought processes on the subject.