Thread: Lets talk devistate magnitude

Hi. I'm hoping to talk devistate magnitude a moment. I was a HUGE fan of Arthar (DN drop) back in the day: +15% proc (on any damage, you have a 15% chance of receiving bonus): bonus = +25% devaste magnitude for 25 seconds. To me...this was pure awesome. I love hitting hard...i love hitting REALLY hard. I loved it sooo much, i created builds specifically around the helmet.

Very recently...I discovered *gasp* Arthar has been replicated in the Reinforced Threkkappi Helm: this a a proc bonus on the champ helm from a Moors set (base commendations 5500 -- 65 trade up set 3500). It contains no audacity. However -- it has -- what is worth this entire post: the same Arthar bonus: on any damage, 15% chance to receive effect: +25% devastate magnitude, duration 25s.

Having discovered this armour piece -- i had to immediately obtain it. i LOVE the bonus. I have since re-arranged my armour pieces to accomodate: i am now wearing the five piece deluagos set (from ToA) + the Threkkappi Helm.

I will start doing parsing and testing this coming weekend when I have some time...I am curious to know what peoples experiences are with that helm (or the Arthar) helm or equivalent and additional bonuses.

My champ stacks big damage...big crits...big hits. I run a 2H first age sword with appropriate legacies. I use an extradinary setting of endings and seek out crit/devastate buffs on my gear.

Has anyone played with a similar build? Do other people share the love of Arthar? Is it worth experimenting with the 75 gear equivallent? How important is Devistate Magnitude to you? What exactly does it do?

devmag is awesome imo... You just need high enough mastery and crit for it to be worth it

I use same helm with 28k pm and 9.8k crit unbuffed and the devmag settings. Honestly I've found the damage to be as random as crit damage itself, when I get the buff constantly I blast stuff away often pulling agro and other times feels like im hitting with a fish. Furthermore it's hard to run tests as the buff doesnt proc on dummies but just by common observation I do more dmg when i have the buff. Now, to test how often i get it on average would vary from fight to fight and factor in how many devs i get during the proc is all really complicated and i dont have much time for that.

I used to get the buff pre RoI from the Moria armour I had, really miss it now. I think my rank is still slightly too low for the Threkappi piece that gives it though but it could give interesting results with 5 pieces ToO giving 10% dev already.

None of the moors gear is rank gated any more, so you can get the Threkkappi Helm if you have enough comms.

Originally Posted by DMor

None of the moors gear is rank gated any more, so you can get the Threkkappi Helm if you have enough comms.

Oh thanks, thought I had checked that.

I was talking to a kin Champion about the PvP helm as well, but does the Devastate buff from the PvP helm compensate for the stats lost from giving up the Orthanc helm?

That's what I'll be testing -- i didn't run all six orthanc pieces anyway -- ran five with the dragon boots. Now I'm testing with the orthanc boots, rest of the orthanc set and Therkappi helm. There is some loss of overall might and physical mastery which I'm hoping will be offset by the Dev Magnitude increase...but that was why I was testing and wanted to seek opinions if others have tried this build.

I use it quite frequently and I also love the 4 suit bonus for +12% dmg on CB instead of 5% so its nice only having to switch 3 armor peices for CB then 4. Ive tested other builds and honestly I cannot forsee alot of difference though its nice seeing big devs I think i have a 12k remoreless recorded on a mob in ToO. lol. My parse only dummies change a wee bit with this help slotted because dummy dmg doesnt give ya the proc but its not that huge.

Ive been toying with the idea of this helm for weeks now and i think its a little bit of a "marmite" effect depending on your build. Let me explain.

Build 1.

2 Hander. Most people that run with 2 handers build for crit. Due to the slower annimation speed and slower pip generation, 2 handers really rely on their crits to get high numbers. As a result, generally speaking, their Dev Chance is pretty high also, making a helm that gives a bonus to Dev Mag very nice indeed.

Build 2.

DW. This is my build. Ive always been a DW champ and always will be. In a DW build we obviously dont hit as hard as 2 Handers, but we have the added bonus of much higher attack speed (Faster annimations) and much faster pip generation. As a result ive found that stacking crit is a bit of a waste, as even when we do crit they are still not as impressive as the figures for 2 handers. Ive found that stacking Moff is a much more efficient way to go. This way all our attacks do larger damage and when we do crit its a nice bonus, but nothing else, and with increase speed we can keep DPS high without the need for the crits.

As i result ive felt that swapping for the Ettens helm with the dev mag would be a waste (for me personally) as i would lose too much Might/Offence to really see the benefits from the crits/devs.

Now admittedly ive no deffinate figures to back this up. 5500 commos is quite a lot to splash on something that i might never use again (would rather finish my Audacity set first), so i havent parsed it. But its just based on past experience of gearing more for crits over offence.

Originally Posted by Eadreid

DW. This is my build. Ive always been a DW champ and always will be. In a DW build we obviously dont hit as hard as 2 Handers, but we have the added bonus of much higher attack speed (Faster annimations) and much faster pip generation. As a result ive found that stacking crit is a bit of a waste, as even when we do crit they are still not as impressive as the figures for 2 handers. Ive found that stacking Moff is a much more efficient way to go. This way all our attacks do larger damage and when we do crit its a nice bonus, but nothing else, and with increase speed we can keep DPS high without the need for the crits.

I also run a DW setup and I'm quite confident that the advantages of crit over mastery are the same for 2H and DW. Running CA shows that over 50% of my total DMG come from crits and devs, so stacking crit over mastery is not a waste at all - I just can't see mastery to take the edge here, once you surpass a certain threshold (I currently run 29k mastery with 8.5k crit). DW relies as much on crits as 2H does, as crits are a huge boost to our DMG, especially with a Remorseless Spam Rotation.

Btw. DW can also rack up some impressive hits

Originally Posted by Eadreid

Now admittedly ive no deffinate figures to back this up. 5500 commos is quite a lot to splash on something that i might never use again (would rather finish my Audacity set first), so i havent parsed it. But its just based on past experience of gearing more for crits over offence.

You actually get along with 3.500 commendations, as you can just barter for the level 65 helmet and then barter that helmet directly for the level 75 version without any further costs.

I wear Threkkappi helm and have 2 x 7,5% on relicts.
In Orthanc ID1 tier2 I scored a 14k hit against Usgarren.

Sadly cool
Got aggro and the raid wiped.

Originally Posted by twittfounder

That's what I'll be testing -- i didn't run all six orthanc pieces anyway -- ran five with the dragon boots. Now I'm testing with the orthanc boots, rest of the orthanc set and Therkappi helm. There is some loss of overall might and physical mastery which I'm hoping will be offset by the Dev Magnitude increase...but that was why I was testing and wanted to seek opinions if others have tried this build.

Sooooooooo... any update before I waste 3k or whatever Commendations on the helm?

it's very hard to tell. I've run multiple skirmishes, draigoch, lightning T2 in orthanc, and just a random slaughtering things on the countryside with the helmet. I tried to keep an eye on numbers and parses from combat analysis.

THEN I ran many of the skirmishes again in my normal build (without the helmet) to try and see if there was much of a difference.

Bottom line: Its still hard to tell. Because of the inconsistent nature of both the proc effect (although it is up MOST of the time while soloing, as long as there is at least some mob trying to gnaw on you) and the swiningness of crits and devastates, there are times where it appears to compensate for the slight loss in DPS, others where it doesn't.

Looking at some raw numbers: wearing the helmet DECREASES my overal physical mastery by approximately 4%.
With the helm (in fervor): phys mastery 26,275 114.%, crit = 20.4%, devastate 8.0%.
without the helm: 27,502, 118.4%, crit = 20.2%, dev 7.9%.

The biggest difference is in the raw overall dps output. it is hard to tell given what I've done (mostly skirishes to get approximate numbers) any difference. I'll keep running a few more and try to get a better feel for it. Getting a good way to test with the helm in some sense of similar environment has proven challenging.

Bottom line: I don't feel gimped, but it doesn't seem all that uber either.

Ok, thanks for the update.

One important--perhaps all-important--question: Does CBR trigger the proc?

Originally Posted by Vodomir

I also run a DW setup and I'm quite confident that the advantages of crit over mastery are the same for 2H and DW.

I disagree. While stacking lots of crit is clearly fantastic for either playstyle, I believe having higher crit benefits DW more than it does 2H because DW focuses on a Remorseless rotation rather than Brutal, and Remorseless has much higher crit and dev multipliers than Brutal. I think this is the reason why you see DW champs doing similar DPS to bosses in raid situations (where you can overcap crit) to 2H champs, despite 2h generally parsing better on dummies.

Originally Posted by Gylve

I disagree. While stacking lots of crit is clearly fantastic for either playstyle, I believe having higher crit benefits DW more than it does 2H because DW focuses on a Remorseless rotation rather than Brutal, and Remorseless has much higher crit and dev multipliers than Brutal. I think this is the reason why you see DW champs doing similar DPS to bosses in raid situations (where you can overcap crit) to 2H champs, despite 2h generally parsing better on dummies.

I mean yeah it does benefit, but not really much more... And you have to go crit in either setup. Brutal Strikes gets +40% crit mag on its 2nd & 3rd strikes from the fervour trait line.

The real benefit to dw is crit'ing on wild attack gives you an extra pip... And dw has an extra hit on WA. If you actually look at the damage parses between dw/2h in 2h a majority of the damage is coming from the finisher. In dw you're getting a larger portion of your damage from the pip builders, at least assuming you're doing WA/BW. I'm not mentioning auto attacks for the moment.

I like to swap to Berserker's Gauntlets (Moria armour), get the proc, then swap back to my delualagos gloves. It's a very nice buff, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Miretocot

Ok, thanks for the update.

One important--perhaps all-important--question: Does CBR trigger the proc?

It does not.

Originally Posted by vpram86

It does not.

Thanks, buddy! I am glad I used my Commendations on the Burglar PvP piece last night then

Ok, I wrote some detailed calculations regarding the damage increase/decrese from dev mag helmet, but the forums did not want me to share them with you and i am to lazy to write the hole text a second time, so only results and some basis considerations I made for the calculation:

increase of damage from dev mag buff: 1.25% (considering 10% dev crit chance, buff is up all the time)

decrease of damage due to loss of crit/dev crit chance: 1% for each percentage point you lose - be it crit or dev crit(assuming you have the crit multiplier legacy, which makes crit and dev crit the same)

decrease of damage due to loss of physical mastery: about 0.5% for each percentage point you lose (0.5% if PM gives 100% damage bonus, 0.45% if PM + fervour damage bonus is 120%).

PM loss from Reinforced Threkkappi Helm (http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Armou...hrekkappi_Helm) compared to Helm of the Delualagos (http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Armo...e_Delualagos): 900 points or about 3% (with 28000 mastery being nearly 100%) -> damage loss about 1.5% (1.35%)

Both helmets have nearly the same crit rating, so only negligible loss here.

All in all a slight loss of damage, but nice if one likes to see big numbers

996 finesse on Reinforced Threkkappi Helm is not taken into account here.

Originally Posted by Schaijian

996 finesse on Reinforced Threkkappi Helm is not taken into account here.

Unfortunately finesse, which for many classes can be summed up with bpe, just leaves the e for champs... For those of us that do it from behind