Thread: Time Warner, RoadRunner, Brighthouse players please read.

Here's my trace route. I hope it helps. I also hope that Turbine is reaching out to TWC network people... rather than placing that burden on us your customers. I'm glad to help - thus the trace route info below. But it seems like the experts at both companies could save everyone a lot of time if they simply got together and worked it out. So please network mechanics get together and figure this out on behalf of us who dont know the difference between RAM and ROM and stuff.

Tracing route to gls.lotro.com [74.201.102.12]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 696 ms 377 ms 278 ms cpe-76-90-54-1.socal.res.rr.com [76.90.54.1]
3 395 ms 402 ms 396 ms 76.166.19.77
4 336 ms 286 ms 323 ms 72.129.5.26
5 330 ms 303 ms 359 ms agg21.tustca1-rtr1.socal.rr.com [72.129.5.2]
6 365 ms 439 ms 335 ms ae-6-0.cr0.lax30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.214]
7 479 ms 427 ms 418 ms ae-1-0.pr0.lax10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.131]
8 436 ms 422 ms 431 ms te2-5.ccr02.lax05.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54.13.
229]
9 246 ms 349 ms 300 ms te0-3-0-5.mpd22.lax01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.44.129]
10 374 ms 364 ms 329 ms te0-2-0-5.mpd22.iah01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.0.250]
11 445 ms 415 ms 434 ms te0-1-0-3.mpd22.atl01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.5.54]
12 438 ms 459 ms 433 ms te0-1-0-2.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.28.193]
13 432 ms 475 ms 433 ms te0-3-0-3.mpd22.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.5.74]
14 440 ms 443 ms 505 ms te0-1-0-5.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.44.30]
15 517 ms 683 ms 600 ms te3-4.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54.46.
134]
16 461 ms 387 ms 355 ms 38.104.252.70
17 257 ms 373 ms 297 ms border1.te8-1-bbnet2.bsn003.pnap.net [63.251.128
.107]
18 333 ms 363 ms 319 ms turbine-7.border1.bsn003.pnap.net [64.95.76.202]

19 414 ms 311 ms 373 ms 74.201.102.154
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

And then a few minutes later:

Tracing route to gls.lotro.com [74.201.102.12]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 860 ms 482 ms 449 ms cpe-76-90-54-1.socal.res.rr.com [76.90.54.1]
3 371 ms 402 ms 341 ms 76.166.19.77
4 386 ms 358 ms 347 ms 72.129.5.26
5 410 ms 367 ms 326 ms agg21.tustca1-rtr1.socal.rr.com [72.129.5.2]
6 379 ms 375 ms 358 ms ae-6-0.cr0.lax30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.214]
7 353 ms 370 ms 403 ms ae-1-0.pr0.lax10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.131]
8 554 ms 630 ms 412 ms te2-5.ccr02.lax05.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54.13.
229]
9 383 ms 468 ms 421 ms te0-3-0-5.mpd22.lax01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.44.129]
10 528 ms 483 ms 459 ms te0-2-0-5.mpd22.iah01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.0.250]
11 528 ms 506 ms 479 ms te0-1-0-3.mpd22.atl01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.5.54]
12 500 ms 469 ms 476 ms te0-1-0-2.mpd22.dca01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.28.193]
13 493 ms 463 ms 509 ms te0-3-0-3.mpd22.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.5.74]
14 524 ms 492 ms 533 ms te0-1-0-5.ccr21.bos01.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54
.44.30]
15 474 ms 510 ms 428 ms te3-4.ccr01.bos06.atlas.cogentco.c om [154.54.46.
134]
16 460 ms 520 ms 546 ms 38.104.252.70
17 526 ms 517 ms 507 ms border1.te8-1-bbnet2.bsn003.pnap.net [63.251.128
.107]
18 542 ms 545 ms 540 ms turbine-7.border1.bsn003.pnap.net [64.95.76.202]

19 596 ms 546 ms 568 ms 74.201.102.154
20 587 ms 578 ms 532 ms 74.201.102.12

Trace complete.

Pinging gls.lotro.com [74.201.102.12] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 74.201.102.12: bytes=32 time=452ms TTL=237
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 74.201.102.12:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 1, Lost = 3 (75% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 452ms, Maximum = 452ms, Average = 452ms


I am ran www.speakeasy.com/speedtest directly after this and was getting 6MB down and .68MB up...

Originally Posted by caligirl25

With all that has been going on since the 20th, I have to admit that I have had or used brighthouse networks for almost 13 years off and on. I have never had an issue with any game or the internet until now. After the maintenance that turbine did wed. i had timed out the at the same time 2 days in a row and then i was getting timed out or was unable to connect to server for the game intermittenly since then. Tonight I have been able to log in and actually play at least an hour at a time and it is only taking a total of maybe 5 minutes to get into the game. I honestly do not care who or what is to blame for the issue as long as it gets fixed so that we can continue playing the game with out any problems. Also, Gary, you mentioned posting on the DSLreports forum. Where is it located and what would you like those of us who use bright house to post?

Hey Caligirl,

If you go https://secure.dslreports.com/forum/bhousedirect you can post a new thread to that forum. All I did was say I was a BHN customer with connection issues to LOTRO. Gary then replied to my thread and told me what he needed.

It would be great if you could post over there! The more people he can put on the trouble ticket the better!

Thanks!

I have the same problem here as everyone else. Since 6/21 the game has been unplayable for me, and I live in Los Angeles and use TWC. Before 6/21 I have never had an issue like this before. I understand this is not Turbine's fault, but they need to step it up and deal with TWC directly. This looks like a serious issue that might not be resolved by a few disgruntled phone calls to TWC tech support.

Worst case scenario is people might have to choose whether to drop TWC or stop playing LOTRO.

P.S. Oh yea the lotro.com site is slow too.

Originally Posted by Maegilmir

I am a TWC user for the past year, and Ic an honestly tell you there is not a time since we started using them I did not regret it. From the start we've been dealing with lag and latency issues, including timeouts an d freezes that got us dead in my household, so it's not like this was unexpected. TWC ran me around and just today, because of this event, I am on modem number 8! I have purchased a new router, used a brand new out of the box router I was saving for when my older one died and NONE of this ever corrected the past year of nonsense.

On the 22nd, the issue that everyone has been feeling finally slammed into us. Not the 20th, not the 21st..the 22nd of June. SO sod all this talk about it being because of the update. It wasn't.

We've been tracking this issue for freaking ages, and even watching how TWC actually caused this issue with other games, including Diablo III and successfully getting their player base to turn on Blizz and blame them for this issue.

When speaking to TWC Tech 3, they blamed EVERYONE but them, so I said to hell with it, contacted COngentco.com and found out they are not the issue. In fact, there is a lag from East coast to west coast when utilizing their service and adding TWC/RR into the equation, but taking them OUT of it, their timing goes back down to normal standards. The extra time lag due to TWC is unexpected and something they refused to accept when I spoke to them.

In fact, when I contacted them on the 22nd they said it was a known issue. When I contacted them on the 23rd, they said ti was a certificate issue due to Turbine changing a certificate on DDO, which is non-sequitur and I told them so. Then on Monday the 25th, they began to berate me for not knowing what I was talking about, that there was NO such issue, and no KNOWN issue and all the notes from my many calls had been erased. I was also told that TWC/RR are not responsible for the product they sell or any connectivity issues they have with anyone if I can connect to the internet. That they are not responsible for their traffic shaping and they will not be held accountable for loss of connectivity. Caveat Emptor, folks, that all came from a Tech 3, so if he's wrong or right, this is what they believe no matter HOW much we pay them. Also, most of them do not know how the internet works and do not know they pay for cross-country bandwidth to get signals across the US with anyone and do not feel they have to contact ANYONE they lease connectivity from like BBnet or Cogentco to track things down...

SO choke on that nay-sayers.

TWC, after I presented them with the trace routes, the date from Cogencto.com and the information that it could not be BBnet in my ping series UNLESS THEY CONTACT THEM because the date from Cogentco.com was conclusive. Turbine was clean to Cogentco, Cogentco runs clean and no packet losses...TWC DID have data loss and and an unexplained speed loss as well that grew when pinging them repeatedly from both myself and Cogentco Boston router.

Now, after all this data, a new modem...again..and a tech support guy coming tomorrow to "fix" my issues again, we're still spinning our wheels.

As I see it we have only a few facts to go on:

This is only happening with TWC, RoadRunner and BH.
People on these are suffering coast to coast, but more so here in Southern California.
This event HAS occurred before with other game services and has been reported on WoW, Diablo III, Age of Conan, Star Trek Online, Star Wars Online and more in the past 6 months and all were centered around TWC, RR and BH.
They tried to pass it off as a Cogentco.com issue and succeeded in getting many to buy into that while whatever was happening resolved itself poorly.

I have not found ANY evidence to prove it's not an issue with TWC as it's been happening to my service to a much lesser degree ALL THIS PAST YEAR. All I can see is this is the final, unavoidable, end for them as they have fought to keep this issue hidden and unresolved so they could get the high price they extract for the service they sell.

Sorry to hear about your TWC modem issues..if you were with us I would offer to help. I suspect they are swapping out modems when in fact it has nothing to do with the modem but thats a different issue. Anyway and the reason for my reply to you.... honestly Cogent wouldn't talk to you about this and IF they did probably told you what you wanted to hear to get you off the phone. They don't deal with end user non customers which is what you are. I have dealt with them for years and know their process very well. Second....tracerts mean nothing and are only one way. You are only able to trace outbound to the server and there's an entire second path that you are blind to...your inbound from the server. Shy of getting Turbine to provide them for you... you aren't going to get them. Knowing the entire route is critical to the resolution of problems like this....how many of you has Turbine provided these to? Raise your hands Yea that's what I thought....

Anyway....on to your other games thing....sorry but you are also incorrect there..Blizzard and several others are very quick to blame the providers for their issues and time and time again it had nothing to do with the provider itself. I know...I've worked on several of them. I understand it's natural to blame the provider because all providers are eevil...or thats what you think..but think again....most providers work very hard to ensure that your internet experience is a great one....is that to say there aren't bad ones out there....nope....am I saying that things won't happen from time to time...nope.....but to openly blame your provider for all your ills is misguided especially since its apparent that you are having local issues of your own...otherwise TWC wouldn't be sending someone out. Once you get those issues resolved then you can legitimately join this party but until then....might be a good idea just stand on the sidelines because it's next to impossible to keep your specific issues and whatever is going on here apart and that absolutely needs to happen if we're going to resolve this.

Originally Posted by caligirl25

With all that has been going on since the 20th, I have to admit that I have had or used brighthouse networks for almost 13 years off and on. I have never had an issue with any game or the internet until now. After the maintenance that turbine did wed. i had timed out the at the same time 2 days in a row and then i was getting timed out or was unable to connect to server for the game intermittenly since then. Tonight I have been able to log in and actually play at least an hour at a time and it is only taking a total of maybe 5 minutes to get into the game. I honestly do not care who or what is to blame for the issue as long as it gets fixed so that we can continue playing the game with out any problems. Also, Gary, you mentioned posting on the DSLreports forum. Where is it located and what would you like those of us who use bright house to post?

Our public forums are here http://www.dslreports.com/forum/brighthouse

I need you to post your inquiry here however (private one on one betwen BHN and you) https://secure.dslreports.com/forum/bhousedirect

Thanks

I don't care whose fault it is.

If it doesn't get fixed quickly, you're going to lose a lot of customers. More customers than you can afford to lose.

We'll never see Mordor.

Originally Posted by psalm8818

i don't care whose fault it is.

If it doesn't get fixed quickly, you're going to lose a lot of customers. More customers than you can afford to lose.

We'll never see mordor.

Agreed!!!

I too have seen these forums be so slow and sluggish. If this is strictly UDP, when WHY are the forums and the client having so many time outs?

For those of you on TWC and have been having problems (other than with this situation) with latency and DNS problems, switch to another DNS server. I've had TWC since I moved into this house in 2004. I've always had DNS problems (Netflix would work fine and continue streaming, or other streams would be fine, but pages would fail to load randomly), so I just decided to switch to a 3rd party DNS host. Problem solved in that case. The DNS servers that TWC uses are complete junk.

This obviously doesn't fix our current situation with these disconnects, but to those of you with constant TWC problems, that's a good solution.

The situation may have clered up. In the past hour I have browsed the forums without any delays and connected and played for an hour.

Cross your fingers!

That's a tall order. My connection problems clear up most every night and start again sometime the next morning - every day since the 20th, without fail.

Most of my issues were at night and intermittenly during the day. I was finally able to play tonight for roughly 3 hours without having any issues and when I did a tracert there were no *request timed out* for a change and usually it was the 1st ping and 16th ping with a couple taking a few moments to finish. Will have to see what happens in the morning.

Yea, just played LOTRO for several hours without a problem. Let's hope this is permanent. Good luck all!!!

Concur. Appears fixed here in Hawaii. First time connect...played several hours....no disconnects and connection to forums cleared up.

Was finally able to get beyond the "Searching for logon servers" message last night, even after exiting and relaunching LOTRO several times and again this morning with no trouble. Very promising sign, lets hope this is the end of these issues!

I was actually able to play and raid from 6pm Pacific to 9:30Pacific with out any disconnection. However my user chat channels did not work during that time frame.

This morning 6/26 the forums have a snappy response and the
game is loading much faster. A very noticeable difference from
the experience over the last 6 days.

Can anyone at Turbine or TW/RR/BH confirm that a problem
was found?

Originally Posted by JLotro

Can anyone at Turbine or TW/RR/BH confirm that a problem
was found?

My guess is, if this is fixed, you won't get a response that Turbine found something on their end.

To all concerned,

Turbine has been invited to work with us (Bright House Networks) and TWC mutually on this issue. Our network folks are ready and waiting. As of this morning there has been no response from Turbine. As I'm sure all are aware these types of things require all parties to work together to isolate and resolve the problem. If Turbine doesn't participate there isn't much the rest of us can do and Turbine knows this.

My hope is that we'll hear from them by the end of business today and can move forward. I will post an update either way at that time.

Turbine can reach me at BHNtechXpert@mybrighthouse.com

I think I need to further refine some clarifications here.

To start, no one was 'blaming' anyone here, to claim otherwise is simply claiming that which doesn't exist, I was simply trying to reach out to an affected subset of the player base all experiencing an issue and supply them with information.

Here's what we know began occurring:

Beginning sometime on the evening/night of the the twentieth of June Turbine Technical Support began receiving a significant increase (a "spike" if you will) in reports of players reporting connection loss on characters/at loading and during world transitions. These reports were from players on all three Turbine games, AC, DDO and LOTRO.

Upon looking further into these reports (including internally at the server status'/internal issue reports et al of which there were none) it was found that every single one of these reports were from players on the same exact ISP or on ISP's related to it and all were in the same geographical areas. Additionally the reports were from all three Turbine games not just LOTRO, and the behaviors were the same/similar.

At the time of this spike and into the following weekend there were no I repeat no internal reports at the time we began receiving these reports of issues that would cause this internally, (and yes we did ask that they be checked). Also claims that the update caused this can be discounted because the updates made on the twentieth were to systems that do not affect/interact with the players connection to the games in any way.

I can currently report that as of last night no changes/updates were made internally that would have remedied this as none could be found from our initial testing to the ongoing checks. Players are noting in this thread that the connection appears to be more stable as of this A.M. however it's also been noted that the issue was an on-again/off-again type so I'm leaving this thread open to allow players a feedback/update and information portal.


@BHNtechXpert, we (or at least I) cannot assume that someone claiming on the forums to be from a specific company actually is (I mean no disrespect here, we just cannot take a 'risk' like that), however we have made inquiries into the affected teams at the affected ISP's that are beyond my ability to comment on (just over my 'pay grade' type stuff really). You are welcome to continue a dialog on external sites but please do not claim to speak for a company on the forums of another company (just as I would not go on that site and report "I work for Turbine") since it is very easy for unscrupulous individuals (not that I believe anything unscrupulous is occurring here) to take advantage of dialogues that purport to be of that nature (e.g. I'm only trying to protect all parties involved from being taken advantage of).

Originally Posted by Mirthgar

I think I need to further refine some clarifications here.

To start, no one was 'blaming' anyone here, to claim otherwise is simply claiming that which doesn't exist, I was simply trying to reach out to an affected subset of the player base all experiencing an issue and supply them with information.

Here's what we know began occurring:

Beginning sometime on the evening/night of the the twentieth of June Turbine Technical Support began receiving a significant increase (a "spike" if you will) in reports of players reporting connection loss on characters/at loading and during world transitions. These reports were from players on all three Turbine games, AC, DDO and LOTRO.

Upon looking further into these reports (including internally at the server status'/internal issue reports et al of which there were none) it was found that every single one of these reports were from players on the same exact ISP or on ISP's related to it and all were in the same geographical areas. Additionally the reports were from all three Turbine games not just LOTRO, and the behaviors were the same/similar.

At the time of this spike and into the following weekend there were no I repeat no internal reports at the time we began receiving these reports of issues that would cause this internally, (and yes we did ask that they be checked). Also claims that the update caused this can be discounted because the updates made on the twentieth were to systems that do not affect/interact with the players connection to the games in any way.

I can currently report that as of last night no changes/updates were made internally that would have remedied this as none could be found from our initial testing to the ongoing checks. Players are noting in this thread that the connection appears to be more stable as of this A.M. however it's also been noted that the issue was an on-again/off-again type so I'm leaving this thread open to allow players a feedback/update and information portal.


@BHNtechXpert, we (or at least I) cannot assume that someone claiming on the forums to be from a specific company actually is (I mean no disrespect here, we just cannot take a 'risk' like that), however we have made inquiries into the affected teams at the affected ISP's that are beyond my ability to comment on (just over my 'pay grade' type stuff really). You are welcome to continue a dialog on external sites but please do not claim to speak for a company on the forums of another company (just as I would not go on that site and report "I work for Turbine") since it is very easy for unscrupulous individuals (not that I believe anything unscrupulous is occurring here) to take advantage of dialogues that purport to be of that nature (e.g. I'm only trying to protect all parties involved from being taken advantage of).

Here let me help you out a bit...

So now that the identity issue is resolved I look forward to hearing from you so we can start the process of determining the root cause of the issue and ultimately a resolution. In fairness to our mutual customers I encourage you to accept our invitation to cooperatively resolve this issue. Once again I must stress that without your assistance we cannot move forward and you know this. I look forward to hearing from you shortly.

For the sake of everyone here I posted my direct contact information for Turbine. The moderator opted to remove it but stated he would pass it on to those folks at Turbine that needed to get the information. (Which I did. - Mirthgar)

Mirthgar,

This guy Gary looks legit, and most willing to
help. Why don't you just call BH and ask for him?
At least attempt to see if he is a real BH manger.

Originally Posted by Mirthgar

@BHNtechXpert[/I], we (or at least I) cannot assume that someone claiming on the forums to be from a specific company actually is (I mean no disrespect here, we just cannot take a 'risk' like that), however we have made inquiries into the affected teams at the affected ISP's that are beyond my ability to comment on (just over my 'pay grade' type stuff really). You are welcome to continue a dialog on external sites but please do not claim to speak for a company on the forums of another company (just as I would not go on that site and report "I work for Turbine") since it is very easy for unscrupulous individuals (not that I believe anything unscrupulous is occurring here) to take advantage of dialogues that purport to be of that nature (e.g. I'm only trying to protect all parties involved from being taken advantage of).

Originally Posted by JLotro

Mirthgar,

This guy Gary looks legit, and most willing to
help. Why don't you just call BH and ask for him?
At least attempt to see if he is a real BH manger.

Yes I even went to the extreme of posting my direct contact information which was removed by the moderator. My contact information is widely available on the net folks. You can also look at my profile at DSLReports simply navigate to our forums http://www.dslreports.com/forum/brighthouse find any post with my response and click on my avatar which is my picture by the way. If they bothered to check my IP it resolves directly back to our corporate network.

Originally Posted by BHNtechXpert

honestly Cogent wouldn't talk to you about this and IF they did probably told you what you wanted to hear to get you off the phone.

You're wrong, sir. Simply wrong. I spent HOURS with them on the phone, have two trouble tickets open and we ran tests and did legwork tracking people down TOGETHER. I respect that you work on the internet, but your experiences are as someone based in an operation and are unwilling to communicate with others unless forced to. Not to mention the fact that like most IP you start from a stance of "It's their fault, not mine" whereas the intermediary companies lose cash if they do that and seek to resolve issues anywhere in their networks. I learned this from my days dealing with Earthlink and Covad. Thing haven't changed yet.

Mirth,

The issue here has nothing to do with assigning blame. It has everything to do with a customer base that is very familiar with service providers making no concession for error on their part and instead directing us to a competing phone tree.

Your customers aren't inexperienced with this sort of thing.

BHNexpert is trying to crowd source the problem some, which frankly is the best way to use message boards like this. Its why I posted my data in the other (now buried) thread.

I'd rather Turbine treat their customers as willing participants in solving the issue than be directed to an opposing customer service dept.

Here's the thing-Mirthgar has stated that the update on 6/20 had nothing to do with any system that could affect the behavior that has been reported here. Said behavior seems to have at least temporarily cleared up this morning, without any action on the part of Turbine. Both of those facts would rather strongly argue against Turbine being responsible for the issue. I find it a bit odd that Brighthouse would attempt to contact Turbine here, rather than through official channels. If the goal is to facilitate high level communication between Brighthouse and Turbine, finger pointing by a supposed Brighthouse rep on Turbine's forums is not the way to do it. Oh, and trying to tell a Turbine customer who was confirming TWC problems that he basically should "stand on the sidelines" because it was something the Brighthouse rep didn't want to hear is both unprofessional and not his place.

Originally Posted by Jerek_of_horus

Mirth,

The issue here has nothing to do with assigning blame. It has everything to do with a customer base that is very familiar with service providers making no concession for error on their part and instead directing us to a competing phone tree.

Your customers aren't inexperienced with this sort of thing.

BHNexpert is trying to crowd source the problem some, which frankly is the best way to use message boards like this. Its why I posted my data in the other (now buried) thread.

I'd rather Turbine treat their customers as willing participants in solving the issue than be directed to an opposing customer service dept.

What exactly do you expect Turbine to do? I try to imagine what I could do in their place-I don't know what I'd do. Nothing they did could possibly have caused the observed problems; all they can do is tell you that. I would be intensely frustrated were I they, being held responsible for something I had nothing to do with.

Originally Posted by Hrodberht

What exactly do you expect Turbine to do? I try to imagine what I could do in their place-I don't know what I'd do. Nothing they did could possibly have caused the observed problems; all they can do is tell you that. I would be intensely frustrated were I they, being held responsible for something I had nothing to do with.

History is the problem. They denied responsibility for the lag issues, which was so wide spread and occurring only in this game that it was insulting that they continued to say it wasn't them. Then we get another problem that affects a smaller group of people, but is similar, and yet again we get "we don't see any reason it was us, not our fault". It feels as if Turbine's first priority is to clear their own name rather than go to bat for their customers. The OP in this very thread lists multiple reasons why they don't think we shouldn't even bother talking to Turbine's own Tech Support for crying out loud!

It's very hard to believe that the maintenance on 6/20 did nothing to affect our connection status. Most people responding to this thread with this issue were fine prior to 6/20, then suddenly had problems just after Turbine did that maintenance. You may see that as a fantastic coincidence, but can you at least understand how the rest of us might not be willing to so easily accept that especially in light of the recent lag issues?

Originally Posted by Hrodberht

What exactly do you expect Turbine to do? I try to imagine what I could do in their place-I don't know what I'd do. Nothing they did could possibly have caused the observed problems; all they can do is tell you that. I would be intensely frustrated were I they, being held responsible for something I had nothing to do with.

I thought I was fairly clear. Crowd-sourcing involves soliciting the help of others to collect data that might otherwise be difficult to collect. Turbine gave us canned responses about checking with our ISPs. That's not very helpful considering many players had aleady made it
further up the tech support trees than Turbine had.

A more constructive approach would be asking for trace route data from players with time stamps and game connection description. Hell, since Turbines entire game base was affected it might have been worth their time to offer a small app to help with diagnosis.

Simply saying you don't know what Turbine could have done cannot demonstrate that they used all available resources. They waited 5 days or so and gave us a referral to our ISPs. Does that really seem like a worthy response to you?

Originally Posted by WargFoe

I've contacted Roadrunner and spoke to a Tier 3 Technical Service Rep, outlining all aspects of your post.

The Rep created an Escalation Ticket which, according to her, goes directly to their Engineering/Operations Center. I was told that it could be up to a week before being contacted by someone from the Engineering Department but that I would receive a call.

That being said, I wanted to share the update and the escalation ticket number.

Roadrunner Escalation Ticket Number: 10129132

I have been trying to chase down this ticket all day via our contact at TWC. Can you confirm whether this was your local customer care tier 3 or NHD (Roadrunner National Help Desk)

Thanks...

Originally Posted by BHNtechXpert

Hello,

My name is Gary and I am the Online Forums Manager for Bright House Networks. Based on what I've read here I can assure you we are not blocking those ports or impeding UDP data in any way. Please contact me directly at BHNtechXpert@mybrighthouse.com and lets work together to determine what actually is going on.

Thanks,

Gary

Hi Gary,

Thank you for this.......e-mail sent.

Originally Posted by thunderchickn

History is the problem. They denied responsibility for the lag issues, which was so wide spread and occurring only in this game that it was insulting that they continued to say it wasn't them. Then we get another problem that affects a smaller group of people, but is similar, and yet again we get "we don't see any reason it was us, not our fault". It feels as if Turbine's first priority is to clear their own name rather than go to bat for their customers. The OP in this very thread lists multiple reasons why they don't think we shouldn't even bother talking to Turbine's own Tech Support for crying out loud!

It's very hard to believe that the maintenance on 6/20 did nothing to affect our connection status. Most people responding to this thread with this issue were fine prior to 6/20, then suddenly had problems just after Turbine did that maintenance. You may see that as a fantastic coincidence, but can you at least understand how the rest of us might not be willing to so easily accept that especially in light of the recent lag issues?

Item 1 in red above:
The issue you listed was never denied, it was stated that it was not visible internally because it was inherent in how the client communicated with the server for that specific set of issues and circumstances for it to manifest.

Item 2 in red above:
I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way, its just that with issues that are outside the scope of what networks we can fully test, adjust, and make changes to there really is not much we can do with issues like this when they fall outside of the realm of being able to effectively eliminate.

Item 3 in red above:
As I stated, none of the 'maintenance' was to customer facing (in terms of how the game client software connects and communicates with the game servers) connections, and believe me when these reports began coming in all of that was factored in when I stated we checked just to be sure that there were no internal issues that would cause the servers to stop communicating with players on a specific ISP's network.

Originally Posted by Jerek_of_horus

I thought I was fairly clear. Crowd-sourcing involves soliciting the help of others to collect data that might otherwise be difficult to collect. Turbine gave us canned responses about checking with our ISPs. That's not very helpful considering many players had aleady made it
further up the tech support trees than Turbine had.

A more constructive approach would be asking for trace route data from players with time stamps and game connection description. Hell, since Turbines entire game base was affected it might have been worth their time to offer a small app to help with diagnosis.

Simply saying you don't know what Turbine could have done cannot demonstrate that they used all available resources. They waited 5 days or so and gave us a referral to our ISPs. Does that really seem like a worthy response to you?

There are also three points highlighted in red above that I would like to clarify as well.

Item 1 in red above:
First is upon noticing the 'spike' in tickets on this technical support did request tracert's from players encoutering this specific issue they were all reviewed and all showed the same path for the most part across the internet and all were on the same ISP's and same route through those ISP's.

Item 2 in red above:
This speaks to the second point highlighted above, it was not the entire game base that was affected as has been stated multiple times it was found to be specific players on specific ISP's whom all shared (via those tracert results we had gathered) the same internet routing pathways. I opened this thread to allow players some information about what we believed was occurring and why/where, again no one was "blaming" an ISP just that we a) received alot of connection issue reports b) checked internally and no issues were occurring that would cause this, and lastly c) found that each and every player reporting this at the time listed as being on the same ISP so those tracerts were gathered to confirm this.

Item 3 in red above:
We were receiving tickets on this from the start as I stated beginning on the evening/night of the 20th, this thread was simply created to unify the multiple threads on the subject and clarify things for affected players while simultaneously giving a unified location for them to post in.

Simply stated I just want to clarify those specific items because there's a lot of acrimony and angst over this issue and I just don't feel that maybe I've been clear enough in that all of this thread and the information provided has simply been to help everyone involved.

Originally Posted by BHNtechXpert

I have been trying to chase down this ticket all day via our contact at TWC. Can you confirm whether this was your local customer care tier 3 or NHD (Roadrunner National Help Desk)

Thanks...

Gary, I emailed you directly the website/phone number that I used when contacting TWC/RR to set up the ticket. Let me know if you need any other 411 Thanks again!

Originally Posted by Hrodberht

Here's the thing-Mirthgar has stated that the update on 6/20 had nothing to do with any system that could affect the behavior that has been reported here. Said behavior seems to have at least temporarily cleared up this morning, without any action on the part of Turbine. Both of those facts would rather strongly argue against Turbine being responsible for the issue. I find it a bit odd that Brighthouse would attempt to contact Turbine here, rather than through official channels. If the goal is to facilitate high level communication between Brighthouse and Turbine, finger pointing by a supposed Brighthouse rep on Turbine's forums is not the way to do it. Oh, and trying to tell a Turbine customer who was confirming TWC problems that he basically should "stand on the sidelines" because it was something the Brighthouse rep didn't want to hear is both unprofessional and not his place.

BHtechXpert has been helpful & Mirthgar has been helpful as well. You, not so much.

Update: Good News!

I just finished talking with the folks at Turbine. Based on everything we know at the moment it appears things have returned to normal for most if not all of you. We need you to check this evening and see how things go and certainly let us know if you continue to have problems related to the issue in this thread. Bright House Networks customers are encouraged to contact me directly at BHNtechXpert@mybrighthouse.com or in our forums at DSLReports. In the event the problems continue rest assured we will be working closely with Turbine and TWC to isolate and get this resolved.

Thanks again to those who have reached out to me. I will be responding to you individually this evening.

Gary

Originally Posted by BHNtechXpert

Update: Good News!

I just finished talking with the folks at Turbine. Based on everything we know at the moment it appears things have returned to normal for most if not all of you. We need you to check this evening and see how things go and certainly let us know if you continue to have problems related to the issue in this thread. Bright House Networks customers are encouraged to contact me directly at BHNtechXpert@mybrighthouse.com or in our forums at DSLReports. In the event the problems continue rest assured we will be working closely with Turbine and TWC to isolate and get this resolved.

Thanks again to those who have reached out to me. I will be responding to you individually this evening.

Gary

Excellent. Thanks for the help!

Originally Posted by BHNtechXpert

Update: Good News!

I just finished talking with the folks at Turbine. Based on everything we know at the moment it appears things have returned to normal for most if not all of you. We need you to check this evening and see how things go and certainly let us know if you continue to have problems related to the issue in this thread. Bright House Networks customers are encouraged to contact me directly at BHNtechXpert@mybrighthouse.com or in our forums at DSLReports. In the event the problems continue rest assured we will be working closely with Turbine and TWC to isolate and get this resolved.

Thanks again to those who have reached out to me. I will be responding to you individually this evening.

Gary

So... was it an ISP issue or a Turbine issue? It's sounding like an ISP issue...

Originally Posted by Mirthgar

...

Simply stated I just want to clarify those specific items because there's a lot of acrimony and angst over this issue and I just don't feel that maybe I've been clear enough in that all of this thread and the information provided has simply been to help everyone involved.

I was (and still am) frustrated over the handling of the situation, but it does say a lot that you were willing to communicate to me and others even after we voiced our displeasure. I sincerely appreciate this and thank you for working with the ISP to resolve this issue.

Originally Posted by BHNtechXpert

Update: Good News!

...

Thank you Gary, it looks cleared up for me so far. Time will tell, I'll be back here in a flash if it's still broke!

::: Update :::

I was able to log in today normally (no looking for server 19/20, etc) ... I was able to switch between characters/servers, etc. I have been able to play for 2 hours now straight without being DC'd, which includes me swift traveling, teleporting, and going to different regions without being DC'd as well. This *seems* to be fixed/resolved. I will keep you guys updated.

Just a couple of personal reflections I want to share, which I hope echos sentiments from others here.

First, Gary...Thank you so much for your interest and diligence. You came in after a week, apologetic because you had not heard of these issues and literally jumped in head first. You provided us with some comfort that someone, somewhere, with some company not only cared but intended to be an advocate for us subscribers/customers. Your approach and follow through, regardless of whether it made any difference or not, gave me a feeling of hope and lessened my anguish.

Second, Mirthgar... While I appreciate Turbine FINALLY responded on the forums (after almost a week of these issues occurring for a great many of subscribers over a number of states/regions), it would behoove Turbine to be more proactive. I hope you (and Turbine) realize that our frustrations come because of our love for playing the game. I can't speak for everyone but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most of us would be very patient if you guys would have come out and said "Here's the issues that we have found and rest assured we are working on it and making them a priority to get you back in the game" instead of this is not our problem, contact your ISP, which is the message that most of us received... That being said, however, I do want to thank you for being involved and responding.

Not unlike others, I want to know what the problem actually was and how it was corrected. It would be difficult for me to digest that this was all just "magically fixed" (if it actually is for the long term) Thanks for hearing me out.

Thank you SO MUCH Gary for communicating not only with your own customers, but TWC's as well. As a TWC customer, I really really appreciate it! (I'm pretty sure I won't be hearing from them about having solved the problem)

I have not been experiencing this problem as you have been right now.. Im posting purely to shed a little light.

About 3 yrs ago when I returned from a 1 yr break from lotro.... I was using VZW Cellular internet tethered through my cell phone... I went about 2 months without an issues and begin to experience this exact same problem.

In investigation, troubleshooting and pulling some of my own hair out in frustration... I decided to spend a little cash and get an AT&T air card (mobile broadband) and to my surprise.. I had no issues with connecting to lotro. Was able to play to my hearts content.

After doing this, I called VZW back and explained to them how their internet was not allowing me to connect.. yet their competitors was... I received an email from VZW the next afternoon crediting my account for one month of free service and acknowledging that limitations within their own system was the cause of the UDP packets not reaching their destination. That the problem had been corrected.

So I went back to using my VZW mobile broadband.

Seems many of you probably could test this easily.. but based on all the information that Turbine has provided along with the common sense of the issue.... its clear to see where the problem is/was.

So many of you are so quick to point the blame at turbine.. be it a coincidental maintenance or another issue that you are not happy with the way its being resolved.. Turbine provides a game to make money.. simple economics... if people cant play, they lose money... so to sit here and say they dont care about the player base is one of the most moronic things ive ever heard said.

As a programmer, I know that there WILL be bugs in any piece of software developed. In such I also know that even the smalled bug or glitch can cause a major issue.. but they are not always EASILY traceable. Some take hours, others take days.. and few can takes weeks to figure out.

Here is the logic in this incident:

100s of TWC So Ca customersl are having connection issues to lotro.
1000s of other So Cal (non TWC) customers are not having the same issue. (this should indicate the issue is either related to TWC and its contracted affiliates or a routing issue)
Being that other SO Cal users are not having the issue... should rule out a routing issue.

So we are left with what the technical gurus at lotro (who managed to make this game work to begin with) debating with a bunch of end users who do not deal with networks and how the game works behind your screen about whos fault this problem is, or who needs to take responsibility for the malfunction.


To the tech guru from brighthouse.... If you were so adamant about working with Turbine to resolve the issue... why not pick up the phone and call them directly rather than posting here in the publics eye about how your so concerned with correcting this issue... Personally I think your after a few more rep + or likes back on DSLReports.. Any respectable representative would know that forums are not the proper channels to investigate issues withing a confidential network environment... Instead all you have done is spoken to the users here telling them (in a nutshell) "Yes, something is wrong.. and we would like to fix it... but unless Turbine is on-board to help us fix our own problems... we are not going to do anything".... Im sure they have phones in that fancy corporate office and could spare a few coins to call Turbine... just saying.

Ive been playing this game since it came out.. and have experience my own share of issues and dislikes. I understand how they can at times be very frustrating, not just to you as a player, but to your kinships who may rely on your for raiding. But I am honestly embarrassed to be affiliated with such a group of complainers who have done very little to provide for a resolution of this issue and have instead chosen the lower road of bashing and lashing out at Turbine.


It is plain to see (with the knowledge of having had this issue with a previous ISP) that this problem does not reside in the hands of turbine, there is no switch they can flip and say "HAHA, just messing with you guys".


I sincerely hope that some of you wise up and realize where the problem was.. offer Turbine your humble apology and move on to playing an amazing game that they have created...

And for those who dont... I offer my apology to Turbine on your behalf. Keep up the good work and communications... its making the haters go away and the community stronger.