Thread: Does every Burg use Touch and Go?

Hi, I wanted to ask some questions to the creep pop.

Does every burg you fight use Touch and Go as soon as they can?

Even in a planned 1v1?

Are you ok/fine/good with that?

I just want to feel the general opinion about this.

Thank you

Against a warg the bad ones use it soon after the fight starts.. and they die. The good ones use KO soon after the fight start... and they usually lose. TBH, I'm fine with KO (2 min CD), but I don't like TnG (5 min CD). I have a kind of personal rule of not popping anything that's either 1) OP (champ bubbles, healing in WS, etc.) or 2) has a 5 min CD or longer unless my opponent pulls some BS cheese. I prefer that my opponent not pop any of these, but seeing as that almost never happens, I just deal. As such, I don't use Disappear or Sprint unless my opponent pops everything they have to try to kill me. That is just me however and other people have other personal rules.

Against most classes (everything except warg and spider) I'd say that TnG is just stupid to pop. It removes all the challenge (and thus fun) to the fight. If a burg does pop it and I'm not on my warg, I start kiting until it's gone.

A good chunk of the burgs on Landy don't [need to] use Touch and Go. For me, there is no guaranteed win for either player whenever they don't use it.

If I'm dying I do.
If I'm winning I don't.

That answer your question?

And for the record I'm not very good at PvP. On Any game. So I usually lose unless I get the jump on my opponent.

Why wouldn't they? Thanks to finesse it's not as good as it once was (same with Moving Target) anyway.

Its an ability they have, why not use it?

As I spider I hope the burg uses it twice so after I kill the burg the CD isn't available for another 5 minutes when it comes across another creep.

It's almost completely ineffective against shadow wargs and weavers, if that's what you're asking.

I don't see if they've used it or not because they've already HIPSed.

Trust me, if we're speaking about 1v1s, freeps will pop everything they can to ensure a clean victory.

I would think a smart burg wouldn't ever use T&G, they'd wait till they were down some morale and stunned and use FF instead. Same effect except they get a heal and free stun pot too.

These days 1vs1's are pretty much the only thing I do on my burg. I do not pop TnG ever in spar, no matter if it is arranged or not. KO I will only pop against r9+ ranked wargs and reavers if needed.
(Though it is the wargs own fault if they stun me, it is just free heal and TnG for me, since I dont carry stunpots with me.)

Using KO against a reaver doesn't help you out much in my opinion. Yes you significantly reduce my incoming DPS for 10 seconds but due to no BPE you give me the chance to get up at least the Lacerate bleed, possibly also Thrash, Mutilate, or Jagged Cut bleeds depending on what skills I have. I'll also hit you with sundering blow in the meantime and probably disarm, slow you and then just kite for the remaining 3 seconds.

The best use of KO is to drop it right as you hit half health because you know I'm going to Dev Strike you at that point so if you time it right you can take only 30% damage on my only significant hit.

I know of a burglar in S'lode that uses it when he is at full health running away from me. But for me, on my burglar, I don't use TnG unless I'm 1/3 of health left and I'm trying to survive and escape or unless I get mezzed or stunned, I use Find Footing.

Originally Posted by Rainyman

It's almost completely ineffective against shadow wargs and weavers, if that's what you're asking.

True! It also not that effective against most other Creep classes either.

The skill has been nerfed a lot by game changes. Its main use is for evading NPCs. I hardly use it directly against Creeps anymore.

I like to use it to get rid of the slow animations cuz thats all its good for now

Originally Posted by colefire2

I like to use it to get rid of the slow animations cuz thats all its good for now

...

riiiiight....

Originally Posted by Rainyman

It's almost completely ineffective against shadow wargs and weavers, if that's what you're asking.

3 skills on Warg go through BPE in Shadow. TNG isn't useless, it will pretty much guarantee you a win if you use it before you're slowed (short of another Warg stunning you and slowing you mid-stun). It's a good skill, just not as godmode as it was.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

3 skills on Warg go through BPE in Shadow. TNG isn't useless, it will pretty much guarantee you a win if you use it before you're slowed (short of another Warg stunning you and slowing you mid-stun). It's a good skill, just not as godmode as it was.

I am sorry but mostly you are wrong.

TnG is not a very good skill anymore.

Originally Posted by Ashi

I am sorry but mostly you are wrong.

TnG is not a very good skill anymore.

But I bet if it was removed all the burglars would cry

Yeah , most of them do it .

And die anyway .

In my 1v1's no burg uses TnG. The best burgs won't use Knives Out either. In return, I refrain from charging to start at the very least. Depending on the burg, I'll turn my back for a SS from behind to start the fight.

I will say that Riddermark has a good 1v1 community, most players won't pop CDs in 1v1 circles unless they have to and I've had many flip over to apologize for doing so.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

3 skills on Warg go through BPE in Shadow. TNG isn't useless, it will pretty much guarantee you a win if you use it before you're slowed (short of another Warg stunning you and slowing you mid-stun). It's a good skill, just not as godmode as it was.

Hence the almost. It's good in that situation if the burg isn't crippled yet and the warg doesn't have sprint up/didn't DOF pot/doesn't go into flayer. In flayer, I almost have to try to lose against a burg.

Does it really matter if a burg uses TaG against anything other than a reaver anymore?

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

Against a warg the bad ones use it soon after the fight starts.. and they die. The good ones use KO soon after the fight start... and they usually lose. TBH, I'm fine with KO (2 min CD), but I don't like TnG (5 min CD). I have a kind of personal rule of not popping anything that's either 1) OP (champ bubbles, healing in WS, etc.) or 2) has a 5 min CD or longer unless my opponent pulls some BS cheese. I prefer that my opponent not pop any of these, but seeing as that almost never happens, I just deal. As such, I don't use Disappear or Sprint unless my opponent pops everything they have to try to kill me. That is just me however and other people have other personal rules.

Against most classes (everything except warg and spider) I'd say that TnG is just stupid to pop. It removes all the challenge (and thus fun) to the fight. If a burg does pop it and I'm not on my warg, I start kiting until it's gone.

Finally, a man of reason; it's great not to use cds to challenge urself. You and I think and play alike friend . Usually tho I'm too nub to pop my cds even if they pop theirs, unless its someone I hate lol.

Originally Posted by Daec

Its an ability they have, why not use it?

Well if its a big cd ability, it takes away from winning with skill. Using no cds makes you better and makes 1v1s more consistent. I feel pretty bad knowing I'd only have a chance to beat someone every 5+ minutes (and if I could even beat him with the cd :P).

[QUOTE=Stevo6;6256952]But I bet if it was removed all the burglars would cry[/QUOTE

What? Compared to you crying all the time?

Originally Posted by Ashi

I am sorry but mostly you are wrong.

TnG is not a very good skill anymore.

Very good here meaning god-mode? Yeah, legit complaint there. I'm not wrong, you're just absurd.

In general I aim for close fights(winner ends with less than 2k), otherwise people tend to not want to fight me at all. Against the 2 best reavers on my server I have to use TnG as well as KO(they just kite them off with Resilience + Fury + Enhanced Hamstring) and it's still a really close fight. Against most reavers I start out of stealth and use no cds.

+r9 spiders can die in a fire.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

Very good here meaning god-mode? Yeah, legit complaint there. I'm not wrong, you're just absurd.

Absurd? Personal attack! Interesting, but not relevant

"Very good here meaning god-mode" - no I mean not very good here ... meaning not god-mode (whatever that is).

Since you are a high-ranked Minstrel, you likely have a definition of god-mode.

I have used TnG for a number of years. I know what it does now and what it used to do.

Currently, it is fairly useless.

I know Wargs and Spiders can effectively neutralize the skill. I know tactical classes bypass TnG. Also, I know most (maybe all?) Creeps have skills that can't be evaded.

However, even when TnG should be useful, it isn't. I mean like 0-3 evades from the skill. Even then it could be chance and I am getting no additional evades.

Not very good from a skill that has a 5 min cooldown.

Most days I hit tng either once or never, or if someone really pisses me off/Im 1vmultiple reavers and ba's! Ko is much more effective, and I use the improved ko set.