Thread: What's a good tanking rotation?

Right now, I'm using:
battle prepped EoB, goad, double EoB, defensive strike, double aggression, then shield tactics/ mastery and another EoB followed by double aggression.

I've got TV equipped, and the threat legacy maxed out. But since yesterday, for some unknown reason, I've found that this rotation just doesn't seem to be working as well. In roots T2 today, I lost aggro to some burg who was still using dunland quest gear. I also lost aggro in a skraid to a slightly better burg, who was in my raid half

Even before yesterday, I was losing aggro to champs and hunters with FAs and crystals, so I really need a new rotation.

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could lend me their raid-worthy rotation

Shield tactics aside, this is probably the heaviest threat rotation there is.
The question that immediately came to my mind was: are you fast enough? Do you use your masteries to full extent?

I battle prep EoB, too, then goad and then double EoB again via f [sp-sh] [f-sp].
I have my tactical mitigation capped, so I don't need the shield tactics.

From there, you can either double aggression, like you do (f sh [sp-f]) or DoW (sh f [sh-f]) for the evade buff.
If it's a single target, a double SoV is a nice up-front threat as well (1. f [sp-f] sp or 2. f sp [f-sp]). If you use the second proposed mastery, you can still use [sp-f] for aggression a little later.

Since those threat leeches (aggression/DoW) need the fellows to have threat in order to leech it, you might as well use one aggression after the double EoB, then sp-sp, *insert favourite gambit here*, then fire off the second aggression and go back to your *favourite gambit*. That way your fellowship would have built some more threat worth leeching.
I could imagine your second aggression right at the start is not as efficient as it could be if fired off a little later.

Don't forget, that hunters and burgs have a huge burst DPS at the start of a fight due to game mechanics, SoV might therefore be better than EoB, which gives threat over time of about 1k DPS, if I've got that right now.

I usually battle prep Shield Mastery, then Dance of War, War Cry (away from mobs so you dont catch aggro, just get the evade and heal buff), Conviction, Shield Mastery if I need the antistun and finally EoB/SoV before entering battle. That way I will have the vital BPE buffs up for at least 30 seconds when entering the fight, allowing me to focus on aggro.

I usually build double EoB as you do, the another double EoB before making a double Aggression, I'm quite sure firing off Aggression that fast will not you much compared to waiting just 5-10 secs more, but I'm not completely certain.
After firing the double Aggresion I can focus a bit on BPE (if needed) before building double Aggression again.

Are you positive you were indetermination stance when you were having the issues? I just went through the exact same thing last night, wiped forgot to toggle it back on and spent the next hour trying to figue out what was wrong with my rotation until someone in glff reminded me to check that. I got it turned back on and back to easy mode really. Otherwise I run the same rotation and have never had any issues as long as the group will wait till I get the second EoB off, from there they are mine and my ward just hit 75 last week so he's not totally geared at all. If it's not that I don't know what to suggest, that really is the max aggro rotation that we have.

Cheers

In 6-mans? I go Battle Prep EoB, then another by [f-sp][sh-f]sh. After that, DoW and sometimes Aggression. Then WC and its all done Usually I pull loads of mobs in 6-mans so I keep using EoB wich keeps aggro solid.

In raids? Start with DoW/Aggresion so you got aggro from everyone. After you got your targets on you, use 1-2 EoB's. After that all threat leeches will do. Just keep using DoW, SoV for single targets, and Aggression.

I guess the issue was just a combination of resists, lag, and not getting them off fast enough
I was using
(33)
(31), (23), 2
battle memoried EoB
(22)
(32), (13)
battle memoried aggression.

Thanks for the advice though

What about conviction?

I'm new to warden tanking, reached 75 a couple of weeks ago and tanked my first content ever a week and half ago, which was Foundry t2 ( itanked it succesfully btw). After that have done a few Roots t2, foundries t2 and To0 3 mans. Just writing this for you to take this post wiht a grain of salt, as I7m defeinetely not the most experienced warden out there.

Anyway, in my limited experience I have noticed that conviction is a great aggro skill. My tanking rotation is similar to yours, with the difference that I fire conviction before shield mastery/tactics. Mind you, i have the +10 % conviction healing legs, I'm traited 5 deep shield line with legendary capstone, and before firing conviction I pop a +5 shield healing hymn. I have found that conviction works as an aggor getter NOT ONLY because its an over time aggro transfer skill, but also BECAUSE SENDING 500-ISH HEALING PULSES TO THE ENTIRE FELLOWSHIP IS ITSELF A HUGE AGGRO GETTER.

However, I know that many wardens don't even consider popping Conviction, treading this forum you'll see it is definetely not a popular skill. To be completely honest i fail to see why? Is it because u guys would rather use the masteries involved on building conviction to other skills (aggression , shiels mastry line) ? If so, I still fail to see why u guys wont use it because after conviction i fire either defensive strike or goad, then Eob (which uses non of the masteries needed for conviction) then battle prep EoB, by then the masteriesused on conviction are up again i can fire then shield mastery or aggression with masteries .

Can you guys please explain why so many wardens don't use conviction on their rotations?

Originally Posted by EtherSunrider

What about conviction?

I'm new to warden tanking, reached 75 a couple of weeks ago and tanked my first content ever a week and half ago, which was Foundry t2 ( itanked it succesfully btw). After that have done a few Roots t2, foundries t2 and To0 3 mans. Just writing this for you to take this post wiht a grain of salt, as I7m defeinetely not the most experienced warden out there.

Anyway, in my limited experience I have noticed that conviction is a great aggro skill. My tanking rotation is similar to yours, with the difference that I fire conviction before shield mastery/tactics. Mind you, i have the +10 % conviction healing legs, I'm traited 5 deep shield line with legendary capstone, and before firing conviction I pop a +5 shield healing hymn. I have found that conviction works as an aggor getter NOT ONLY because its an over time aggro transfer skill, but also BECAUSE SENDING 500-ISH HEALING PULSES TO THE ENTIRE FELLOWSHIP IS ITSELF A HUGE AGGRO GETTER.

However, I know that many wardens don't even consider popping Conviction, treading this forum you'll see it is definetely not a popular skill. To be completely honest i fail to see why? Is it because u guys would rather use the masteries involved on building conviction to other skills (aggression , shiels mastry line) ? If so, I still fail to see why u guys wont use it because after conviction i fire either defensive strike or goad, then Eob (which uses non of the masteries needed for conviction) then battle prep EoB, by then the masteriesused on conviction are up again i can fire then shield mastery or aggression with masteries .

Can you guys please explain why so many wardens don't use conviction on their rotations?

DoW mostly.

It depends on the instance. If I can see most people in my fellowship is lacking a bit of morale (e.g. if you do 6 mans without a captain and their almost-constant Heal over Time), Conviction is fairly nice for helping out and keeping everyone healed.

I mostly use it for battle prepping before entering a fight because the small HoT will be in your favor if your aggro skills are resisted or you miss a mob. While it wont guarantee you aggro all mobs, it's still more aggro from the very beginning of the fight.

I have a G15 with some macros set up, but that is mainly for efficiency and not stumbling over whatever masteries have already been used.

Prep eob, Defiant Challange, Goad, Eobx2, sp sp, eobx2, Conviction. Repeat the eobx4 macro for every 150k health the mob has. I then switch to the entire heal line + conviction.

My reasoning is this. At the start of the fight I take more damage than the rest, so I use DC to cover this. I establish a LOT of aggro, then switch into heal+aggro steal mode. Healing 900hp\sec is a TON of aggro by itself, but this is essentially 1 minstrel spamming bolster on me the whole fight, and I use almost no power doing it. On 6 man content I have been told I am the easiest tank they have ever had to heal many times. Tanking RoI T1 (as an alt I dont get to tank T2), I throw in a macro with shield stuff for b\p\e in between each round of aggro and healing.

Foundry\RoF I can keep myself up while the healer focuses on the group, after the initial 60 seconds of aggro. Raiding I even out the damage and only need a heal from a mini when I get hit really hard twice in a row. On the Dragon I heal myself with no problems.

2 things to consider as well.. aggression got some love with 7.1 so on a single target it can generate a fairly potent shot of aggro (for example, I find 3 is enough for the entire fight vs the wannabe lumberjack uruk boss in Fangorn's Edge, even on T2) and then there is the much maligned DC... The force aggro is short, but enough time to build an EoB using masteries, but the key is the mitigation buff is insane, and gives you a significant window to lock aggro without taking massive damage, and also allow you to lock in defensive gambits before it wears off.

I'd love to say I have a perfect rotation that works for every group situation but I'd be lying... aggression and piercing blow are my single target threat generators of choice and in groups, war cry (easy to spam with masteries and it works pretty well), EoB and of course conviction, which is even better if you have multiple wardens in the group

There is only one possible rotation that I can think of that may work to give you more up-front threat:

Battle prep EoB
Goad
2x EoB
Aggression (masteried)
Aggression (Manual)

Then Goad, 2x EoB etc.

The reason I don't use shsh here is that it does not provide any threat and takes some time, while the aggression masteried is almost instantaneous. After that it leaves you some time to build a manual aggression, after which your goad should be off-cooldown. If this doesn't work you are being trolled!

And yeah, like someone else said: Make sure you are in Determination! I've seen plenty of people fail because they weren't in a stance!

It's funny to see how everyone is spammin EoB. Seriously I love EoB since before Aggression was introduced, but you guys spam it too much

I use battle prep Shield Mastery and eventually Conviction (evade, self heal buff, some additional aggro), I open with WarCry (rly, I cannot live wihout it), EoB, then depending on DPSs (if they have already pulled something off me) - Aggression followed by EoB. If those are under 20k morale mobs I get a quick bio here, then come back and repeat with the next pull. If we talk about 30k+ mobs I use Conviction + WoS, EoB... I may use double builder and Potency only if there is something that rly goes bad and needs double Aggression/EoB, otherwise I prefer Conviction (sometimes I end up with higher heal numbers than teh group healer ). While EoB can be resisted, Conviction cannot.

Anyway, I got no predefined rotation after the 3-4 opener skills. Aggression is such an amusing skill, you can see a mob running to your range DPS and back to you and again, and you havent even targeted him

Originally Posted by EtherSunrider

What about conviction?

I'm new to warden tanking, reached 75 a couple of weeks ago and tanked my first content ever a week and half ago, which was Foundry t2 ( itanked it succesfully btw). After that have done a few Roots t2, foundries t2 and To0 3 mans. Just writing this for you to take this post wiht a grain of salt, as I7m defeinetely not the most experienced warden out there.

Anyway, in my limited experience I have noticed that conviction is a great aggro skill. My tanking rotation is similar to yours, with the difference that I fire conviction before shield mastery/tactics. Mind you, i have the +10 % conviction healing legs, I'm traited 5 deep shield line with legendary capstone, and before firing conviction I pop a +5 shield healing hymn. I have found that conviction works as an aggor getter NOT ONLY because its an over time aggro transfer skill, but also BECAUSE SENDING 500-ISH HEALING PULSES TO THE ENTIRE FELLOWSHIP IS ITSELF A HUGE AGGRO GETTER.

However, I know that many wardens don't even consider popping Conviction, treading this forum you'll see it is definetely not a popular skill. To be completely honest i fail to see why? Is it because u guys would rather use the masteries involved on building conviction to other skills (aggression , shiels mastry line) ? If so, I still fail to see why u guys wont use it because after conviction i fire either defensive strike or goad, then Eob (which uses non of the masteries needed for conviction) then battle prep EoB, by then the masteriesused on conviction are up again i can fire then shield mastery or aggression with masteries .

Can you guys please explain why so many wardens don't use conviction on their rotations?

I Dont use it so much do to the fact that the gambit takes so long to complete vs using aggression. To use aggression I use two mastery skills and im done where conviction uses a mastery i always have on cooldown for other gambits and you still after that need to use 3 gambit builders which can take time. And everyone knows that as a warden you have to be fast constantly cycling through gambits. A flat answer is that conviction just takes too long to build. I mainly use that gambit when i am dealing with mobs that are cc so i can still build threat on them while taking threat away from the healer since the healer is the only one that is able to build threat on it. We are not as lucky as guards to have threat skills that do not interfere with cc.

And I have a rotation of threat that has never seemed to fail me even with groups 5 hunter and a warden(me) and it goes as follows:
*note all these gambits are built using masterys.

use and defensive buffs you wish before battle
Battle prep EoB
Goad for potency
EoB
Aggression and any defensive/healing/threat managment skills you wish depending on situation untill EoB runs out.
Battle Memory EoB
Goad for potency
EoB
Aggression and any defensive/healing/threat managment skills you wish depending on situation untill EoB runs out.
and keep on cycling. This keeps a constant 2 EoBs on at all times and I can get agro even if I do not start the battle.

I should Also say that I trait 5 blue and 2 yellow. The 2 yellows are Terrible Visage and Master of the Fist. These both will increase your threat. But Master of Fist will only help you with threat if you use your fist masterys. But everyone should learn how to use these. If you choose to avoid them you are going to hurt your value efficiency and purpose as a warden.

Originally Posted by EtherSunrider

What about conviction?

...

I have found that conviction works as an aggor getter NOT ONLY because its an over time aggro transfer skill, but also BECAUSE SENDING 500-ISH HEALING PULSES TO THE ENTIRE FELLOWSHIP IS ITSELF A HUGE AGGRO GETTER.

For clarity's sake, no class has an over time threat leech. All transfers are one-time. Healing the fellowship does generate "global" threat in a similar way to leeching over time, but the fellowship only loses threat once when you fire it. Not that that matters in the grand scheme of things.

That said, I use Conviction very often whether I'm tanking or melee DPSing, but less often in Assailment. Just doesn't seem as useful since in most cases tanks can handle aggro without it.

Originally Posted by Helnuir

I Dont use it so much do to the fact that the gambit takes so long to complete vs using aggression.

Conviction long to complete? E.g. (Sh-Fi) + SH + (Fi-SH) is not much longer to execute than (Fi-Sh) + (Sp-Fi). Also I'm, as someone else said, using conv when whole group needs a little healing boost, not really for aggro anymore.

Anyway, I would have to agree with some other poster, if you lose aggro after doing what you did then maybe missing determination stance? It's embarassing, but it happens, especially after previous penalty was just bit less icpr really.

And imo you're using aggression way too soon for it to be effective.

Originally Posted by Farw

Conviction long to complete? E.g. (Sh-Fi) + SH + (Fi-SH) is not much longer to execute than (Fi-Sh) + (Sp-Fi). Also I'm, as someone else said, using conv when whole group needs a little healing boost, not really for aggro anymore.

Anyway, I would have to agree with some other poster, if you lose aggro after doing what you did then maybe missing determination stance? It's embarassing, but it happens, especially after previous penalty was just bit less icpr really.

And imo you're using aggression way too soon for it to be effective.

Yea, I found out today that the rotation works far better when I just use one aggression, to battle memoryify it, then buff up, then fire off the BM'd aggression before another double EoB.

Nice to see so many replies

In Moria Instances I got serious problems tanking because I was using PB (Precise blow) against one opponent. What I remember it was no.1 threat skill pre-update changes. Now EoBs, Conviction, Aggression later are much viable! Even against one opponent (boss). And Defiant challenge (leg. trait) is necessity for situation you are loosing aggro..
I'm using Conviction more and more, it doesn't only heals
- in Determination it transfers moderate threat from other fellows
- in Recklessness buffs their Physical mastery..
There are many such differencies between skills/stances to be learned..
http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Conviction

Originally Posted by stratospaly

I have a G15 with some macros set up, but that is mainly for efficiency and not stumbling over whatever masteries have already been used.

Prep eob, Defiant Challange, Goad, Eobx2, sp sp, eobx2, Conviction. Repeat the eobx4 macro for every 150k health the mob has. I then switch to the entire heal line + conviction.

My reasoning is this. At the start of the fight I take more damage than the rest, so I use DC to cover this. I establish a LOT of aggro, then switch into heal+aggro steal mode. Healing 900hp\sec is a TON of aggro by itself, but this is essentially 1 minstrel spamming bolster on me the whole fight, and I use almost no power doing it. On 6 man content I have been told I am the easiest tank they have ever had to heal many times. Tanking RoI T1 (as an alt I dont get to tank T2), I throw in a macro with shield stuff for b\p\e in between each round of aggro and healing.

Foundry\RoF I can keep myself up while the healer focuses on the group, after the initial 60 seconds of aggro. Raiding I even out the damage and only need a heal from a mini when I get hit really hard twice in a row. On the Dragon I heal myself with no problems.

Hi, where do you get the macro for the skills? Thanks/

For t1/t2 6/3 mans the easiest rotation is as follows:

Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob

For t1 Orthanc/Skraids rotation is as follows

Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob >Eob

T2 Orthanc is a whole different story.

Originally Posted by EtherSunrider

Can you guys please explain why so many wardens don't use conviction on their rotations?

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ction-too-weak
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...iction-vs.-DoW

PS: If you're using the above or any other rotation in this thread and still not holding threat it simply means your gambit execution is not fast enough.

Hey guys, i have a 75 gaurd and warden and have found that this rotation works really well for me on my warden!

(bp)Eob, goad, eob(f [sp sh] f sh), (bm)eob, agression(f sh [sp f]), DoW([sh f] sh f), Sod([f sh] f sh), CoS or t3 hot ([sh sp] sh sp), defensive strike and repeat with eob

after a round or two i usually take out agression and use sheild mastery! as (sh [sp f] sh)

also i will use the ([sp sh] sp sh) for combination stike <-- i think thats what its called for parry buff and keep an EoB on bm and use when i feel necessarry!

i try to manage my masteries! so you may not like my appraoch but it works for me :3 and keeps me really well buffed all the time!

ofc on trash in foundry and rof i go a bit nuts on my warden and heals usually struggle to keep up so i will use 'restoration' i think its called ([f sp] [sh f]) with a defensive strike before hand! for a bit more of a self heal to help out healers x.x

so it looks something like this

(bp)Eob, goad, eob(f [sp sh] f sh), (bm)eob, defensive strike, restoration([f sp] [sh f]), (bm) restoration, DoW([sh f] sh f), Sod([f sh] f sh), CoS or t3 hot ([sh sp] sh sp) repeat with goad and restorations if your getting in the &&&&! haha

hope this helps