Thread: Why should I have to PVE?

OK I honestly hope I get banned so I'm not tempted to ever play again.

This is just stupid as hell. I can't believe you people play this [stuff]. I'm a rank 3 weaver, can't believe I managed to get that far (took like 2 weeks)

I still get insta killed by any freep, even 1 on 1 fighting. I snuck up on a nearly dead freep, and only did about 500 damage to him trying my VERY HARDEST. This absolutely sucks. The point of PVP is that you play against other people. That simple formula just doesn't exist in the moors, because I don't think it's even possible no matter how much I grind and spend (can't believe I gave turbine my credit card # and paid for this) I will just get smashed by freeps, anywhere on the map except INSIDE gramsfoot.

Try something other than a weaver. Without buying everything from the store you are very squishy and have very low - 0 dps. I'd recommend a warg since you have the benefit of stealth.

Welcome to the moors, newly rolled creep.

There is no reason why you should feel this pain. I'd advise you to go back on your hunter or go for a different game.

Its somewhat true what you say..

I spent all my commendations that i had from my other toons,and started an incognito r0 reaver yesterday...

I went out and tried to participate in "pvp" i felt useless,and every healer that healed me probably wasted heals wich would have been better used on a ranked creep that does atleast some dmg,or another healer. I really felt like a moving Training Dummie with 9k Morale.

Now i managed to get into a Group,but it changed little,exept that i was leeching points while contributing little,honestly feeling so useless is fun to anyone?...


So People went ahead and told me to go pve until i get higher ranks,6 +... And there it hit me,if i have to pve/grind to be able to pvp,i might aswell do that on Freepside,where i can do it in peace,and get my skills for free! The only reason that i can think of why NEW players dont do it is the VIP only Moors freepside,or that someone doesnt want to lvl,and buys a store creep right away.

Eventually i kept going,made r2 fairly fast... Then another AHA moment,i went to the Skill Trainer,and i saw what so many already complained about,skill and class skill costs alone are way out of line... Skills,and Class skills at r2 cost me about 11k commendations,thats not including corruptions or audacity,not even to speak of a skin,tho that doesnt bother me much a skin wont change things anyway. To get r2 i made about 1400 infamy,wich resulted in +- 700 commendations... Needless to say i couldnt buy anything and judging from the infamy needed compared to commendations earned and needed i will get around to buy my skills for r3 at r6 O.o ...
If i would be a f2p i would have to buy traitslots aswell,wich means i already have to play my freep to farm them,or i buy VIP/TP..


Now,i know it gets better when i hit higher Ranks,the commendation gain is enough there once you reach that treshhold,and this is no QQ freeps are so OP creeps so weak post.. Simply my impression of how Starter unfriendly and anti pvp/fun the Moors are in their current State for new Players joining Creepside lately.
I didnt believe how frustrating it really is,since as a ranked creep its somewhat playable,until i started this r0 with no help from my bigger toons.

Anyone else a different View on things? Id like to hear other Peoples experience with it,new and old Players!


P.S. Sorry for my bad grammar and weird spelling! English is not my Main language,i hope its somewhat understandable.

I can assure you, your experience is accurate. I started my Warg about a week ago, and all I have done is doing as many quests per day as possible and am now halfway to rank 4. I do have most of the important skills, but only because I have also played 3 other creeps doing their dailies to feed my Warg their commendations too. One other thing that adds is that I luckily got into a group doing a map flip, and which in the end did the group dailies too for about 1300 extra commendations) This means that I need to spend extra 1-2 hours every day on toons that are constantly running from the graveyard to try if this time I can actually get somewhere alive to tag the place or get to the quest NPC. Those toons will not be getting a single skill before my Warg is at the least rank 6... Also I have 1500 commendations from map deeds (some of them are very had to do when one gets ganked constantly while trying to gather, and most of the quests needing a group, or have a limit on how many can be done total).

My Weaver was lucky enough to get a jump on a Burglar who was either farming a rank 0 WL, or just had had a jump on one. I really didn't have time to check as both appeared to be moving (I had been ganked by burglars and others three times already that day). I couldn't believe how badly the Burglar played, as he got constantly stuck with my ridiculously weak CC and I could get some distance to add more poisons (as he didn't use HIPS, I'm thinking he might have already used it earlier for a gank and it was on CD). Took me 2 minutes, but still I did it. :-) (He did target me after that and hunted me down twice with using his stealth this time...)

I can understand people quitting their low level creeps as it really feels impossible to get anywhere. Even if there wasn't Audacity at all, it would still feel quite impossible to get anywhere near usefulness in a reasonable time.

At the moment I am seriously considering grinding my Champion to 75 (temporarily parked at 69) to feed commendations to my creeps, and that should say it all... But... That would probably be easy mode... ;-)

Originally Posted by masumane

OK I honestly hope I get banned so I'm not tempted to ever play again.

This is just stupid as hell. I can't believe you people play this bull ****. I'm a rank 3 weaver, can't believe I managed to get that far (took like 2 weeks)

I still get insta killed by any freep, even 1 on 1 fighting. I snuck up on a nearly dead freep, and only did about 500 damage to him trying my VERY HARDEST. This absolutely sucks. The point of PVP is that you play against other people. That simple formula just doesn't exist in the moors, because I don't think it's even possible no matter how much I grind and spend (can't believe I gave turbine my credit card # and paid for this) I will just get smashed by freeps, anywhere on the map except INSIDE gramsfoot.

It seems that many of the people playing now are the remaining experienced Creeps who felt the pain of grinding pve quests for maps before the agonizing grind for commendations. It was difficult to get started even before the F2P introduction in the Moors, but Destiny Points were easier to get. Now it's just frustrating. Most of us grind Commendations on our main creep(s) to feed any new one we bring up. Without that? Not even worth it.

Every time I hear a Freep complain about 'teh grind' to get leveled up and get gear I have to shake my head and wonder if they've even tried to create a character over here. They have more Skirmishes, Instances, and Epics than we have total quests. That's not even counting the hundreds of Environment quests they have.

The goal, probably, was to have the F2P players come over and then spend TP to build up more than the original Reaver. I'm sure it's been lucrative for them, but the current setup's been painful for the Creepside players and has probably hurt the bottom line more than it's helped.

In fairness, Weaver is probably not the best class to start with in this environment. If you're F2P, I'd stay stick with the initial Reaver for a bit until you get some commendations, then grab a Warg. If you're stuck doing a lot of PvE (which we are) you've got a better chance of harvesting in peace with our one Stealth class.

new creeps die alot in the moors, it happens. Happens more often if your a squishy class. I had issues of dying alot when trying to pvp, i just kept at it and its getting better as i get more comms. Just do your best, keep your head high, and keep at it!

Playing the weaver means that you must adjust to its playstyle. You have low dps and low morale/mitigations, but decent range (shorter than a hunter however) and the ability to fire on the run. You cannot win in head-to-head combat. Fight from cover: some location that you can retreat to and is threatening to the freep if you burrow into trapdoor sanctuary. Don't overextend. Try not to be the creep nearest to the freep. Watch your distance from hunters and minstrels (Piercing Cry has a 40m range as well). You can judge the 40m mark by the appearance of the nametag over your target's head. Beyond 40m, the nametag will not be shown.

Simple question... Shouldn't I be about as tough as a spider from Great River region? I'm the same level. The hunting spiders are killable, but they can at least put up a fight for a minute.

But no, I'm more like a spider from Lonelands or something, sure I have 7000 health but a high level freep kills me just as fast anyway.

The simple answer to your question is:

You shouldn't.

Originally Posted by masumane

OK I honestly hope I get banned so I'm not tempted to ever play again.

This is just stupid as hell. I can't believe you people play this bull ****. I'm a rank 3 weaver, can't believe I managed to get that far (took like 2 weeks)

I still get insta killed by any freep, even 1 on 1 fighting. I snuck up on a nearly dead freep, and only did about 500 damage to him trying my VERY HARDEST. This absolutely sucks. The point of PVP is that you play against other people. That simple formula just doesn't exist in the moors, because I don't think it's even possible no matter how much I grind and spend (can't believe I gave turbine my credit card # and paid for this) I will just get smashed by freeps, anywhere on the map except INSIDE gramsfoot.

Welcome to LOTRO. Have you seen the delightful Turbine store? You can avoid all PVE by purchasing everything you need in the store.

You will still not be as powerful as your foe on the battlefield, but at least Turbine will have your money.

*blink*

Originally Posted by masumane

Simple question... Shouldn't I be about as tough as a spider from Great River region? I'm the same level. The hunting spiders are killable, but they can at least put up a fight for a minute.

But no, I'm more like a spider from Lonelands or something, sure I have 7000 health but a high level freep kills me just as fast anyway.

Please, listen. There is no reason why you should play. As a creep, you'll get farmed, zerged, ganked over and over again. You'll be forced to PvE to get comms where, you guessed, get farmed, zerged, ganked over and over when your just trying to do some quests in HH. What's even more annoying on how there is a full freep group doing it.

Buying your skills isn't going to improve you much either. Just means you'll do some more fancy stuff before being melted by freep DPS.

Here's a solution: get enough TP, buy your weaver for MP, then unsub like I did (tho I have a reaver as a main, so no TP needed ). This game isnt worth the money it should be worth right now.

Buddy, as a rank 3 spider, ur not gonna do much in a 1v1. Get rank 5 first to get your slow, then get rank 7(?) or buy from tp store, get catch a prey, and 1v1 then. Let me know how you do, cuz you will do much better. I fought a good spider that used that with 1 audacity against my 7 aud hunter and he did pretty well on me; imagine how good he do at 7 aud. Good spiders are one of the toughest creep classes to beat if you're a melee/ranged class, not so much tactical I guess since catch prey does nothing really then. If you dont want to pve, go join groups till you get enough commendations for 7 audacity. Pretty easy to get them through killing freeps. Also will help a lot with rank.

I recommend dressing up as a flayer warg.

Judging by the recent state of the forums, a flayer warg is capable of easily devastating any freep. Every freep will give you a wide berth if your costume is convincing.

Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro

Everybody has it rough when they start their first creep. There is no reason to flame on a forum post about it.

Yes, there is. Starting a new creep should not be as difficult as it is now.

Another simple answer.

They put ZC in charge of something to do with PvP.

Originally Posted by Stevo6

Yes, there is. Starting a new creep should not be as difficult as it is now.

No, there isn't.

There is no problem with the fact that a rank 3 spider with little to no solo experience is losing to a fully geared out freep. That's like trying to say that it's fair that a level 60 hunter is out in the moors killing rank 10 black arrows.

Sure, the whole commendation system is screwed at the moment, but if Turbine is going to fix it, it's not going to be due to some half-brained QQ thread on the forums.

PvMP is completely fine and not unbalanced at all.












Oh wait, that's the opinion of our dear devs.

Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro

No, there isn't.

There is no problem with the fact that a rank 3 spider with little to no solo experience is losing to a fully geared out freep. That's like trying to say that it's fair that a level 60 hunter is out in the moors killing rank 10 black arrows.

Sure, the whole commendation system is screwed at the moment, but if Turbine is going to fix it, it's not going to be due to some half-brained QQ thread on the forums.

I'm not talking about 1v1. Roll a freaver, and see how much damage you do to a non-light armoured freep with full audacity. That's right, next to nothing. Freep auto-attacks are stronger than your strong attacks. This results in a low infamy and comms gain from PvPing, thereby forcing the creep to PvE to try and rank and get comms. But, there is a insane price for skills/traits etc, meaning that when the reaver is rank 2 they probably won't be able to afford those skills till rank 4. I'm not complaining that a creep can't beat a freep in 1v1, but I am complaining that the freep can be blindfolded with no hands and still win.

Please give me a suggestion on how we can get Turbine to fix it. There have been plenty of threads well written and thought out and Turbine doesn't read them. So, any half-brained QQ is about as much help as thought out idea's at the moment.

Originally Posted by Stevo6

I'm not talking about 1v1. Roll a freaver, and see how much damage you do to a non-light armoured freep with full audacity. That's right, next to nothing. Freep auto-attacks are stronger than your strong attacks. This results in a low infamy and comms gain from PvPing, thereby forcing the creep to PvE to try and rank and get comms. But, there is a insane price for skills/traits etc, meaning that when the reaver is rank 2 they probably won't be able to afford those skills till rank 4. I'm not complaining that a creep can't beat a freep in 1v1, but I am complaining that the freep can be blindfolded with no hands and still win.

Please give me a suggestion on how we can get Turbine to fix it. There have been plenty of threads well written and thought out and Turbine doesn't read them. So, any half-brained QQ is about as much help as thought out idea's at the moment.

Can a level 40 freep do much damage to a full audacity mitigation traited spider (I use this example because spider is technically the light armor class of creepside)? I don't think so. If you think a freaver should be on an equal playing field with a fully geared, full audacity freep, you are just flat out insane.

As far as suggestions go... You just said it yourself... Turbine doesn't read them. So why make half-brained QQ threads when there is absolutely no point to them at all. Turbine has an agenda... Whether you like how the updates are or not, they have revamped classes in past updates, and I'm sure that they are going to continue to do that, just on their own terms.

Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro

Can a level 40 freep do much damage to a full audacity mitigation traited spider (I use this example because spider is technically the light armor class of creepside)? I don't think so. If you think a freaver should be on an equal playing field with a fully geared, full audacity freep, you are just flat out insane.

No, but a lvl 75 (remember,we are lvl 75) with yellow gear will still easily be more than a match a new Creep. A well-geared Freep is not the comparison for a low-ranked Creep, one wearing quest gear with middle-ish virtues and 3rd age LI's should be, and by that standard, a new Creep is still vastly out-classed.

funny how people think the current balance is anywhere near good for new and veteran creeps.

nobody said a new creep should destroy fully geared freeps BUT being a new creep in the current moors is quite simply completely useless.

now compare that to what it was when I started mine over 3 years ago, you were able to actually survive long enough to do some decent damage and get nice amounts of infamy to progress and you were actually worth something in a raid.... today? any new creep in a raid would die in 2 secs just from AOE, alone? lol even a norbog will kill it.

that is absolutely NOT how it should be and definitely not helping turbine acquire new players not to mention even if you do manage to get a higher rank its not even that helpful.

audacity is a horrible feature that will only make things worse when rohan comes, if they really want to improve the moors they should start with removing that and commendations not ''improve mechanics to get it from pvp more and not pve'' that doesn't help at all.

Originally Posted by mad_ox1

No, but a lvl 75 (remember,we are lvl 75) with yellow gear will still easily be more than a match a new Creep. A well-geared Freep is not the comparison for a low-ranked Creep, one wearing quest gear with middle-ish virtues and 3rd age LI's should be, and by that standard, a new Creep is still vastly out-classed.

Yes, but at the same time, didn't that freep spend 2-3 weeks to level that to 75? Unfortunately, the way the moors works makes it impossible to make a perfect comparison between two sides, so it really depends on the way you look at it. Compare a new freep to a rank 6 creep. It is perfectly reasonable to say that you could hit rank 6 in 2-3 weeks if you played every day. A rank 6 creep, who has moors experience and has played out there for 3 weeks, should be able to beat a quest-geared noob who has never seen moors action before. If they can't, then it's the players own fault.

The fact is that a 75 freep of any gear setup will have put in more effort than a new to mid-ranked creep.
But a high ranked creep of most classes will have put in more effort than a 75 freep of any gear setup.

Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro

A rank 6 creep, who has moors experience and has played out there for 3 weeks, should be able to beat a quest-geared noob who has never seen moors action before. If they can't, then it's the players own fault.

Meh... You compare good vs bad player here...

Also,the Freep that goes to Moors with Questgear at lvl 75... isnt that a Myth? ^^ Very few hit 75 and run to the Moors right away,most gear up with 1-2 Raids first,Skirms etc... Hardly anyone goes there with a 3rd ager and purple/yellow gear cause they know they are food... safe the very very casual ones...And that is something the creeps cant do,they have to do it the hardcore way.

Originally Posted by Cillion

And that is something the creeps cant do,they have to do it the hardcore way.

And that is the challenge that you have to take in order to skip leveling a toon in pve land...

If you don't like it, roll a freep. I don't get why people whine so much about the fact that they aren't efficient enough at low ranks, when they are putting little to no effort in to get there. When I'm playing my spider, I can kill most people 1v1 without major problems. If it comes to using cooldowns, for example, a champ blowing sprint, burrow, then pop out and kill it after it goes down.

If you don't put the effort into your toons, and think out strategies for each fight, don't complain that you are losing the fight.

Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro

Can a level 40 freep do much damage to a full audacity mitigation traited spider (I use this example because spider is technically the light armor class of creepside)? I don't think so. If you think a freaver should be on an equal playing field with a fully geared, full audacity freep, you are just flat out insane.

As far as suggestions go... You just said it yourself... Turbine doesn't read them. So why make half-brained QQ threads when there is absolutely no point to them at all. Turbine has an agenda... Whether you like how the updates are or not, they have revamped classes in past updates, and I'm sure that they are going to continue to do that, just on their own terms.

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.

A new creep should not be as affective as a fully geared creep. However, they should be able to at least do damage and last longer than 5 seconds. Currently, they do not, and that's why the creep has to PvE to rank.

You can't buy your r1 skin on Creep until r5. Clearly the system is meant to be painful. And it is. My god...it is. As a newly made Creep you contribute nothing. You need skills and passives to be able to kill stuff in any reasonable fashion. To get them you need to be able to kill stuff. There is no answer, it is a catch 22 and all you can do about it is PvE with the hopes of one day being almost kinda sorta capable of PvPing.

But fret not, once you hit the high ranks, after a vastness of tears...you're still not on par with decent Freeps. Not even close.

With the rare exception of a rare Elite Master or higher stumbling on you when you are not following what happens around you, there is no real danger involved in leveling for a freep. Leveling a creep though, you are in constant danger of being ganked while you are trying to gather logs, roots, ore and other items for quests. If that was how leveling goes for freeps, I doubt many would level past level 5 before switching to another game. Even the "kill 20 of this and that" gets boring after a while. At least there are thousands of quests available, and tens of zones to do them in. Comparing the two sides when it comes to leveling, creeps are like a freep leveling by turning in tasks...

Leveling would be much more fun if the skills could actually be bought with the rewards one gets from the quests. Alas, it is not the case now, not even close. If one finally can afford their first rank 0 skill at rank 2, there is something seriously wrong.

Still I enjoy PvMP, but that only means the actual PvP. I have already done my part of leveling in the "normal" game. I would be glad to do it on creep side, if the leveling experience was the same as on freeps. For example 20 zones with thousands of quests. At least make a copy of Moria for us to conquer... Then it would be equal (that was sarcasm, by the way). ;-)

with the delving pretty much useless it would be awesome if they put some quests in there as well for infamy/comms

Yep, that would be nice. Nothing like farming useless trash for coins, when money is useless too!

Your creep is still low rank, it shouldn't be too hard to delete it

I've deleted all my creeps and freeps and uninstall the game as well.

Originally Posted by Untg99

Another simple answer.

They put ZC in charge of something to do with PvP.

THIS!!!

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

You can't buy your r1 skin on Creep until r5. Clearly the system is meant to be painful. And it is. My god...it is. As a newly made Creep you contribute nothing. You need skills and passives to be able to kill stuff in any reasonable fashion. To get them you need to be able to kill stuff. There is no answer, it is a catch 22 and all you can do about it is PvE with the hopes of one day being almost kinda sorta capable of PvPing.

But fret not, once you hit the high ranks, after a vastness of tears...you're still not on par with decent Freeps. Not even close.

This. It is just absurd for a new Creep. If u buy every (or even every USEFUL) active and passive skill until R6 you got still 1 audacity and of course still r0 skin. I roled a new creep few weeks ago and its just painful. Now think of somebody who doesnt know the moors. I think he would delete his creep after ~ 5 hours.

This is what Turbine think about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q

They no will gain money from old players (only few losser that will pay to win) and need torture poor new people to creep side. I have no problem with pve with creep. I wish can level from 1 to 75 the creep will be more funny than with freep. But i sad that you can get all your skills, traits, skin just when you level. Is like no rewards for your effort now paid me if you wanna them.

Being a new creep is painful. Unfortunately it requires a LOT of dedication, time, and patience these days. Want to survive in the moors? you have a few options

Buy skills in the store
Spend your hard-earned comms on skills
Save your comms for Audacity for survival

Oh, and you can only choose one to be a viable, newbie creep

Price of skills and audacity needs to drop.

I created a new rank 0 defiler on Elendilmir over the weekend. Played it for a little while then went back to my warg. Brought out the defiler again last night to try again.

Quite honestly, it's a horrible experience. If I didn't have any toons already up to ranks I could work with, I wouldn't bother sticking around based on my recent rank 0 experience.

There is nothing fun about playing a completely powerless sentient NPC for the "good guys" to obliterate in a couple of seconds.

I have to wonder again if anyone on the dev team has ever played a game in their lives, because they sure don't seem to understand how games work.

greeny tip: pLaY it SaFe! dont try to solo just yet. try to duo or trio with people and do raids when they are out. once you get some commendations and ranks buy more upgrades and skills. I reccomend hugging morale for a while

Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro

And that is the challenge that you have to take in order to skip leveling a toon in pve land...

If you don't like it, roll a freep. I don't get why people whine so much about the fact that they aren't efficient enough at low ranks, when they are putting little to no effort in to get there. When I'm playing my spider, I can kill most people 1v1 without major problems. If it comes to using cooldowns, for example, a champ blowing sprint, burrow, then pop out and kill it after it goes down.

If you don't put the effort into your toons, and think out strategies for each fight, don't complain that you are losing the fight.

SO because freeps did all the challenge during their SAFE PvE grind, they don't need the challenge during PvMP? But monsters should still take it in the rear because they haven't been challenged enough?

Freeps hug Minas Tirith, have outnumber buff, but creeps roll trolls as they are overpowered.
So freeps all roll riders of Rohan as they are Fotm and steamroll Creeps.
Angry Creeps all roll Oliphants as they are OP and Mash up freeps;
Freeps Bring on wizard, so creeps involve Nazgul, battle is iffy, so creeps send a someone Freepside OOC to ask for more creeps and they bring lots of pirates.
But freeps have rolled ranger as they have outnumber buff, who summons undead army and wipes reinforcements near spawn. Creeps are miffed and all ragelog.
Creep army folds.

Moral, spend a lot of time in Osgiliath farming legs of men and footmans badges before you launch major offensive.

You are missing one funamental aspect here.. you are reasonably thinking a game is designed to be fun... in fact games are designed to be fun on the one hand and miserably boring on the other. Its skipping the miserably boring bit people pay to do. Hence teams of people at turbine are employed to think how to make your game boring, its ironic isn't it.