Thread: Can I finally have a SURVIVE button for PVP?

You know, something that makes me last longer than 3s when two wargs jumps on me. I'm not asking for something tremendous, just prolong the fight for another 2s perhaps... /QQ

hit the big button with the word retreat on it

We would, but it's been disabled in combat...

Well, I sincerely doubt we are not going to get something that we have been asking for for more than a year now.

Wargs have two survival skills and are fun to play. Champions have several, and a warden is just no different from a rock.

Originally Posted by zalladi

and a warden is just no different from a rock.

A wee bit tastier than a rock though....

Nice QQ faileon, but you are right

Without pvp gear when a rank 3 warg stuns me i'm left on half morale. Consider they almost never are alone 90% of the time i'm dead after i recover from a stun

Especially when you just can't equip the PVP gear. I'm not going to ditch Fleetness Buff for -50% trap induction. Seriously devs, wake up.

I do the "reach for another can of beer" skill and console myself with the thought that its not me, or that the wargs are great players, just that my toon is gimped in certain situations, and not much I can do.

One of the best times I had in the moors was in a group of 12 hunters. We all camo'd behind rocks with one lonely hunter as bait out in the open. As soon as the warg gankers came it was instant zap again and again. A night of sweet revenge. Yeh it was EM but lets face it so is 1+ wargs on all but the best pvp hunters.

Hunter survival skills are the 40m range and the ability to kill stuff before it closes. Out in the open and outnumbered we're toast but that's true of every class including guards and wardens. It's doubly true of the current god classes, minis and RK's.

If you're in a group that is not vastly outnumbered you're just fine. Otherwise you're toast unless you're a burg and a voyeur more than a fighter even if you're sneaky.

Originally Posted by Bowman99

Hunter survival skills are the 40m range and the ability to kill stuff before it closes. Out in the open and outnumbered we're toast but that's true of every class including guards and wardens. It's doubly true of the current god classes, minis and RK's.

If you're in a group that is not vastly outnumbered you're just fine. Otherwise you're toast unless you're a burg and a voyeur more than a fighter even if you're sneaky.

Spoken like someone who truly has no understanding of PVP.

A full audacity hunter vs a full audacity warg, the hunter will lose 9 times out of ten because the warg has disappear to allow him two pounces, plus the stupid broken brands so we can't even slow them. Same situation with any other creep class, BAs just hit the 'I win' button, they can stack crit defenses which blunts all our damage and we lose by attrition. Defilers and reavers might be the only two classes equally at a 'disadvantage' as us, but even reavers can break CCs and defilers can heal themselves. Hunters just have no way to counter anything that an equally ranked/skilled creep has. Audacity pretty much ruined PVP for us, because that greatly improved survivability of many squishy creeps, and crippled hunters by requiring them to use a different armor set that's only really useful for turn and burn.

or you can do what a hunter friend of mine does...6.5k morale with 35k mastery xD

Originally Posted by Nerglor

or you can do what a hunter friend of mine does...6.5k morale with 35k mastery xD

That's the only way to do it anymore. Hit hard, fast, and unexpectedly and you'll live. Just have to make sure you can kill it before it can react.

Originally Posted by Kajil

Spoken like someone who truly has no understanding of PVP.

A full audacity hunter vs a full audacity warg, the hunter will lose 9 times out of ten because the warg has disappear to allow him two pounces, plus the stupid broken brands so we can't even slow them. Same situation with any other creep class, BAs just hit the 'I win' button, they can stack crit defenses which blunts all our damage and we lose by attrition. Defilers and reavers might be the only two classes equally at a 'disadvantage' as us, but even reavers can break CCs and defilers can heal themselves. Hunters just have no way to counter anything that an equally ranked/skilled creep has. Audacity pretty much ruined PVP for us, because that greatly improved survivability of many squishy creeps, and crippled hunters by requiring them to use a different armor set that's only really useful for turn and burn.

But you're talking about the elusive 1-v-1 PvP situation which I've only seen a small number of times in the years I've been playing in the Moors. If you're up on Candy Mountain 1-v-1ing against a rank 9+ warg you're toast no matter what you do. That's just what it is.

LOTRO PvP has never been balanced for 1-v-1 situations because the devs rightly figured out that it would be almost impossible to do that and also create classes capable of performing the needed roles in PvE. It would take different skill sets for both roles in order to make everything work right and then the classes would play completely differently from PvE to PvP taking away the immersion aspect of being a hunter, minstrel, guard, etc.

Well, guards do play completely differently but that's another story - since the DPS and survival mode they use in the Moors would work just fine in PvE also if other classes weren't better at that anyway.

LOTRO PvP has always been balanced for group vs group and it always breaks down in 1-v-1 and raid vs raid. The fact that it breaks down in these situations is secondary to the fact that PvP tends to be 1-v-group and group-v-raid which makes everything else academic anyway.

Originally Posted by Nerglor

or you can do what a hunter friend of mine does...6.5k morale with 35k mastery xD

Too many wargs running around in stealth. Over 40% of the creep population is wargs. And they all have the hips skill on the ready if they are seen. Shoot one and he hip's, then 10 more pounce you. And dont say use camo as it is useless, they have better stealth detection then hunters do(they even see my burg who has +11 stealth).

Originally Posted by Bowman99

But you're talking about the elusive 1-v-1 PvP situation which I've only seen a small number of times in the years I've been playing in the Moors. If you're up on Candy Mountain 1-v-1ing against a rank 9+ warg you're toast no matter what you do. That's just what it is..

Well, I agree that situations are different when outnumbered (creeps Zerg highest damage/lowest morale hunters first and just move on). But, this is probably different by server, because on Arkenstone where I am, a 1v1 situation is quite common. Not unusual to have another warg or two jump in (taking on a sub R7 warg with a greenie or two attached is no big deal), which can typically be handled quite easily if the wargs are clueless on how to fight. For the most part though we have a lot of high ranked solo wargs, so 1v1s aren't unheard of and there are some who can absolutely wreck good hunters thanks to audacity and simply eithe being killed on the pounce outright or due to being unable to damage them significantly.

We had before a not too shabby survival skill ... that was the 6-gear lv65 moor armor bonus (slow foe, remove slow on yourself and 5 sec immunity on low cut use). But this was removed with the audacity gear.

That saved my butt many times in solo fight and even sometimes on zerg attempt.

Telling that hunter have many slow to keep enemy at range is a joke as all creeps have a slow, and creep can use minibrand as they wish (remove everything + 10 sec immunity to everything).

But there is still no slow removal for freeps which is imo completly lacking, only option for freeps that does not have a sprint skill is using store brand.

Originally Posted by Faileon

Especially when you just can't equip the PVP gear. I'm not going to ditch Fleetness Buff for -50% trap induction. Seriously devs, wake up.

3x2 is the way to go. A shame that everything we have to equip is stupid regarding skill bonuses, but without Audacity you are bound to fight in the Zerg and can not expect to 1vs1 anything ranked.

Originally Posted by Tithias

And dont say use camo as it is useless, they have better stealth detection then hunters do(they even see my burg who has +11 stealth).

*Wargs don't have stealth detection.
But they are very mobile in stealth. When I play on warg I often spot burgs before they spot me, mostly because they look in the wrong direction. Burgs are also slow compared to wargs.

haha i don't care about wargs so much killing hunters, but on my R3 Reaver, I kept charging and killing the hunter over and over while the rest of my team kept the minis at bay... Killing hunters is easy for any creep class imo...

I believe that every class should have the capability to solo. Most do. BA evade, now reaver resilience and large heal, spider burrow webs and heal, WL brawler with crit heals and huge mits, defiler hots on the move and cc.

Freeps?
Champs have 100 cooldowns. 3-4 bubbles, other self heals, and a 2 hour sprint.
Guardians cannot be killed. 100% bpe for 30 seconds, 2 warrios hearts and unkillable mits and morale. 17 second 50% sprint.
Wardens are rediculous, no inc dmg and self heals.
Minstrels are insane, heals, bubbles, feign death.
Burgs. Multiple touch and goes, 2 Hips, great cc and some self heals.
LM. Lower on the food chain but great cc, with help from pet flank heals and wisdom of council is OP.
Captain last stand, self heals, make haste
Runekeeper distracting winds, kite to dps, 20% runspeed calming verse, multiple forms of cc on the move. High base runspeed.

Hunter: Agile heal? lol. Dazing blow only real effective form of cc in a 1v1 unless its a warg. No escape skills, no survival skills unless you want to count boost of parry rating.

I have no issue soloing on my hunter, but it would be nice to have some sort of a cooldown, either similar to ba evade, or some entirely new concept such as 20% morale back for damage delt for 30 seconds on 5 min cd.

Originally Posted by Faileon

You know, something that makes me last longer than 3s when two wargs jumps on me. I'm not asking for something tremendous, just prolong the fight for another 2s perhaps... /QQ

I agree- It's frustrating to try and get anything done in the moors when you get jumped and creamed by a Warg ....and its so hard to get away..
The other day in frustration, I rolled a Warg....Was invited to group with other Wargs, and piled on a level of rank and shares in several kills in about an hour....While my Hunter still sits at very few kills and mega deaths to his credit.....This is probably a hard balance issue to fix- but having the old 'bug out' button activie would take off some of the sting for me for sure...

Originally Posted by grapez

*Wargs don't have stealth detection.
But they are very mobile in stealth. When I play on warg I often spot burgs before they spot me, mostly because they look in the wrong direction. Burgs are also slow compared to wargs.

Didn't they merge Stealth and Stealth detection?

Originally Posted by grapez

*Wargs don't have stealth detection.
But they are very mobile in stealth. When I play on warg I often spot burgs before they spot me, mostly because they look in the wrong direction. Burgs are also slow compared to wargs.

Sense Prey, Enhanced Skill: Sense Prey, and Stealth Detection Boost.

Originally Posted by Tithias

Sense Prey, Enhanced Skill: Sense Prey, and Stealth Detection Boost.

A skill I used every time the CD was off.
When I played on my warg, I knew I had an escape skill in case of emergencies, so I always went for the kill if there was a freep out, and if the fight went poorly, I would run - it would not look bad on me because I always start the fight.
However, I will admit that wargs are hands down the best creep class to play; they are easy mode and can win against any class if played with skill that is not bought from the store.

It is clear that the Developers wish to discourage Hunter play by their lack of survivability in the Morres. They want you to level up a Hunter (as it is a popular 1st class choice) be unhappy in the morres and start something else relying more on the Store to level up quicker. Hunters are Warg Chow, plain and simple, and the Developers know this and don't care, and they won't care until there is an Improved Hunter class for sale in the LOTRO Store, however much we might wish otherwise.

LOTRO is a business, and there is no interest in letting people stay happy with their 1st class choice (I was until I hit the Morres)

Syndarin
Level 75 Hunter
Rank 3 in the Morres
WARG CHOW Extraordinaire

one survive button for PvP - NO - I want two, like virtually every other class has!!

I'd rather have medium armour.