1 v 1 debates seem to have taken over the best/worst thread, but it seems to make sense to start this here...
What is "fair" in a 1 v 1?
For example:
Is it "fair" to have delving buffs up? (resist, evade, armor)
Is it "fair" to have mitigation and offense scrolls active?
Is it "fair" to use pots? (heal?, power?, wound?, poison?, fear?, disease?, stun?, daze?)
Is it "fair" to heal? (Anyone 1 v 1 a healing warden lately? What about a healing rk? or Defiler?)
Is it "fair" to use brands?
Is it "fair" to use items purchased with TP? (Crumbling brands? Store heal pots? Store bought Creep skills?)
Is it "fair" to run away? (sprint off, dying rage, etc?)
Is it "fair" to man heal?
Is it "fair" to attack before the other person is ready?
Is it "fair" to heal yourself after the other guy is dead instead of waiting to see if left over dots would kill you?
Some of these questions seem to have pretty obvious answers and some are a little more murky. (In truth I suspect it would be hard to get 100% consensus on most of them.)
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A now for the murkiest question of all.... Is it fair to use cds? (And what exactly does this even mean?)
I'll use burgs as an example. Using knives out, touch and go, or hips in a 1 v 1 is murky at best. They are powerful skills and I personally don't use any of them when my opponent is obviously outmatched, but in a tough fight...
- Hips? Sure it would be cowardly to use this to run away from the fight but what if a spider drops webs? Hips is a burgs best response to catch up to him (hips gives 10s of full movement speed) OR if a reaver is using dying rage? (I'll hips and just let him rage die) OR if a reaver has me slowed and is bleed kiting me? (hips gives 10s of full movement speed) OR if a defiler is healing like nuts and I think an auto crit from stealth surprise strike might give me the burst damage I need to out dps his healing...
- Knives out? I persoanlly don't hesitate to use knives out (Its a 2 min cooldown and I paid a lot of commendations to get an armor set that gives this skill a stacking bleed.)
- What about touch and go? Using T&G vs a newb freaver is just mean but what about a warg in flayer stance? They get a healing bubble every 8s. Is it fair to use T&G against that?
At the end of the day, the classes aren't necessarily balanced well vs each other for 1 v 1 fights? (Catch prey can make a spider almost unbeatable vs melee classes. However, well played tactical classes will destroy a spider most of the time.) Most classes have skills that are VERY powerful vs some (or all) other classes and people tend to get upset if someone uses a skill in a 1 v1 that they feel made the fight impossible for them to win. However, this a REALLY gray area. I would argue that the list of over powered cds is not agreed upon and what little is agreed upon is way out of date. For example:
-Touch and go isn't OP vs a flayer warg (and it is useless vs a shadow warg)
-Actually using healing IS overpowered in many matchups (but what else is a healing class to do?)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not naive enough to think its possible to get 100% consensus on most of this, so is there anything we CAN get consensus on?
Rule #1 - Its okay to start the fight anytime after you have both targeted each other and have both hopped up and down
Rule #2 - A 1 v 1 fight is to the death. (If you agree to a 1 v 1 fight [see rule #1] you shouldn't sprint away )
Rule #3 - No 3rd party help is allowed in a 1 v 1. (Should go without saying but...)
Rule #4 - If someone from the other side interferes in a 1 v 1 fight its fair game for everyone in the area to gank them. (It's fine if you don't want to 1 v 1 but if you feel compelled to try to ruin it for people that are having fun, then don't be surprised when people treat you like a jerk...)
Rule #5 - If it's a close fight you should expect the other person will use pretty much any skill they have. (Unless they have agreed beforehand that the skill won't be used in the fight.) If you don't like the skills they use then you don't have to 1 v 1 them, but don't get bent out of shape because someone actually used a skill in close fight...
Rule #6 - Store healing pots, power pots, and crumbling brands should not be used. (I'll be curious to see if we can even get agreement on this.)
What do you guys think? (Let the flames begin!!!!)
Topics like this are pointless. For the most part, players already know who to expect to not pot/pop/play cheaply in 1v1s and who to expect to do these things. You have your people that enjoy the challenge and fall into the first category, and then you have your people who fall into the second category, who will also most likely only want to 1v1 people they are certain they can defeat. If there's a chance at failure, many players simply won't step up to the plate.
I respect most the people that deserve it at 1v1s, and I even try to respect those that don't. But, say for instance, the other day. There was like 20 players at the 1v1, and absolutely no one else out in the Moors. I would try to get some 1v1s but only 2/10 creeps there would 1v1 my hunter. I'd leave for a while, try to find some other players out on the map, to no avail. Finally I just said to hell with it, and killed the 8 players there that wouldn't 1v1 me.
1v1s are great in moderation, in my opinion, but when it becomes a snoozefest of 20 ppl with 75% only wanting to fight people they know they'll win against, it's time for them to end. I know many people will disagree with my approach on this topic, but it's an open pvp zone, so too bad.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not naive enough to think its possible to get 100% consensus on most of this, so is there anything we CAN get consensus on?
Rule #1 - Its okay to start the fight anytime after you have both targeted each other and have both hopped up and down
Rule #2 - A 1 v 1 fight is to the death. (If you agree to a 1 v1 fight [see rule #1] you shouldn't sprint away
Rule #3 - No 3rd party help is allowed in a 1 v 1. Should go without saying but...)
Rule #4 - If someone from the other side interferes in a 1 v1 fight its fair game for everyone in the area to gank them. (It's fine if you don't want to 1 v 1 but if you feel compelled to try to ruin it for people that are having fun, then don't be surprised when people treat you like a jerk...)
Rule #5 - If it's close fight you should expect the other person will use pretty much any skill they have. (Unless they have agreed beforehand that the skill won't be used in the fight.) If you don't like the skills they use then you don't have to 1 v 1 them, but don't get bent out of shape because someone actually used a skill in close fight...
Rule #6 - Store healing pots, power pots, and crumbling brands should not be used. (I'll be curious to see if we can even get agreement on this.)
#1 - yes, this is the norm
#2 - yes
#3 - agreed, we will usually put you on a short list to get bulldozed at every opportunity
#4 - see rule #3 - zergers will be met with zero tolerance and suffer the fate of those in #3 ... times 10
#5 - also agreed, IMO - if you have a skill, use it. Granted, if you resort to brands and conjs to win I can't credit you for having any actual skill
#6 - store pots and brands should be banned from use in the moors - if you have to use a brand (store or item) to win? yeah, go back to pve... see also #5... I personally will pot when I see my opponent relying on a million debuffs or conjs/interrupts to win, for me, this is situational. I personally prefer to rely on dps/kiting/etc, and try to only use heals/bubble/fear/pots when its last resort. But I will use them, I hate losing.
As far as buffs go? if you need them to kill me 1v1 - go for it. It will just make me point and laugh at you that much harder when I win anyway.
there is nothing "fair" in the Moors, we can only try to make it so or imagine it so.
This is kind of my point. The moors isnt fair. However, people do have expectations about how people will behave in a 1 v 1. The problem is, as least as often as not, those expectations arent the same. I think this leads to a lot of people getting needlessly bent out of shape. I made the thread in order to try to point out how gray things really are and to try to sort out a "bare minimum" of reasonable shared expectations in a 1 v 1.
I have to agree that we will never have consensus on which skills are or are not on the 'no-no for 1v1' list, but I think there should be consensus on a few things:
1) No external buffs should be used in a 1v1 - if I have scrolls or a token up then I will generally go get NPCs to kill me before a 1v1.
2) No use of consumables of any kind. This includes wound, disease, fear, poison pots. Stun pots. Root pots. No morale pots. No power pots. No store consumables. No other potions of fervour / other crafted stuff that gives you a buff.
3) No interference from other players. If another player interferes they should get zerged if possible and the 1v1 should stop.
4) No use of racial skills like Eldar's Grace, Endurance of Stone, or Strength of Morale.
5) Brands are a no-no.
Then there is the last one - no use of long CD or 'OP' skills. This is where things get squirrely and where we will not have agreement. My list is necessarily incomplete, but here goes:
RK - no armaments of storm - generally bad to use PI, though I do use it in some circumstances.
Mins - FH, TS. This is tough cause generally speaking you will not get many 1v1s period if you self-heal too much in my experience, regardless of the skills you use.
LM - wisdom, not sure about others.
Wdn - I would think that NS is a no-no, but generally using lots of self-heals
Brg - Hips is generally a no-no I think (though Merri diagrees with me above), t&g, ready and able. Not sure about knives out as most burgs I know use it and most creeps I know complain about it.
Htr - I think it is generally poor form I think to start out in camo. Other than that I think you're pretty ok to use anything.
Grd - pledge, not sure about any others
Champ - I hear a lot of creeps complain if bubbles are used. I just got my champ to 75 and would be interested in hearing others' perspective - is CB ok? Seeking? Dire need?
Capt - I think pretty much anything is cool on cappy except LS
Warg - bad to hips or sprint away, sprint to stay in range or whatnot is fine.
BA - MT (though this doesn't bother me on an RK)
Spider - I have no idea, though I would think the burrow with full heal is kinda lame in a 1v1
WL - I would say quitters, but tbh a WL in a 1v1 needs all the help they can get
Defiler - pretty much anything is cool though the flies are awfully annoying
Reaver - dying rage is kinda lame imo
I would try to get some 1v1s but only 2/10 creeps there would 1v1 my hunter.
I'm usually around late night on E, if your guard there is viable still. I actually logged into Gladden the last few nights and found full blue maps and mostly pve going on
Originally Posted by Ravyrn
You have your people that enjoy the challenge
Unfortunately I think this describes very few people (/looks at all the shiny new minis in the moors these days....though I'm sure some of the minis were dusted off or rerolled for a "challenge" ).
My 2cents:
Open world/random encounter: I expect my opponent is going to use anything and everything (and often do).
"Arranged 1v1s": I hope for some self balancing, outside a handful of people I regularly 1v1 it often doesn't happen though.
Wrt pots: I expect their use. Its another strategic element, knowing what pot to use when, and prepotting in combat effectively when called for. Frankly its more essential creepside, so that might be why freeps are less concerned. The DPS that a freep can unleash in that time are pretty large....ie I'm not going to sit in a root/mez and eat a HS, or 5k ents if i can help it. There are also some pretty sizable debuffs/slows just to eat no questions asked in a 1v1. It also requires me to apply debuffs more thoughtfully creepside (warg/spider) - ie buffers.
wrt the store: not a fan of store consumables (brands etc)
wrt to creep store skills: (outside defile flies maybe?) not unbalancing and who cares, mid/low rank creeps are at enough of a disadvantage already....but then I guess all the angst over this goes back to the first comment - no one wants a challenge.
Only consumables I think are fair to use in 1v1s are wound/fear/disease/poison pots. Anything else would definitely give some players unfair advantages, especially if they have a pet scholar/cook to meet all their consumable needs.
As to Dur's skill list, I would say you've got most of then covered. Any long CDs, or skills I like to call rock-paper-scissor skills (i.e. BA MTing against a non-tactical class, but esp a hunter hint hint) are just lame to pull out of your pocket any time during the fight. Something like cappy last stand or warden's DC can be particularly harassing
But as for your question about champ bubbles and heals, I would say sudden defence is reasonable, because it's marginally effective and can be one-shotted by a good warg or reaver crit, but true heroics is a no no imo, and not sure how people feel about dire need.
One more thing -- I've heard lately arguments against kiting in 1v1s, which I don't understand to be all that bad. Do any of you consider it bad form to kite in 1v1s? Not kiting til ooc to get morale back up, mind you.
A good rule to live by: if a player needs their CDs/consumables to beat you, they obviously aren't up to your level of challenge, so better just to ignore them entirely.
I think that every consumable that is available to everyone without using money should not be ruled out as been unfair. The same for skills, no skill should be ruled out as been unfair. What is the point of really besting a player/class with restrictions?
I think bought store consumables and external help (heals and damage) are the only things ruled out. Another class buffs should not be ruled out, since u can ask for class buffs or can chose not to fight if the opponent have and u don't.
Exception when the players, for fun and nothing to do with been fair, agreed to balanced the fight and rule some stuff out or accept the weaker class on the match to use more stuff.
If you know you have 0 chances of besting someone without some restriction and that player don't accept the restrictions, just don't fight him? Or do without complaining?
It is not easy to agree on rules to make a 1v1 more fun since creeps and freeps need external stuff (vent, ...) to communicate, but many people know some classes matches that are not balanced (didn't use the word fair). Just avoid that matches if you need to agree on rules and you don't know if the opponent player will respect the rules. Or, again, don't complain about fairness.
Wdn - I would think that NS is a no-no, but generally using lots of self-heals
You missed Defiant Challenge. I admit I used it when I was a brand new 75 and had low audacity and utter trash gear, after checking with the folks creepside at the time if they thought it was okay. Fully geared though it's pretty much a godmode button and I'd definitely consider it an unfair advantage.
Traiting blue line and spamming self-heals is the reason no one ever wants to fight a warden 1v1, because it's lame but lots of wardens do it anyway.
Personally I don't mind if most creeps use buff consumables, especially if they're low rank. And as far as skills go it depends on the opponent. As a melee class with a puny power pool I refuse to fight a defiler that uses flies, but I could see them being fair game to use against a will-based class that can probably still take them out before their blue bar runs out.
1 v 1 debates seem to have taken over the best/worst thread, but it seems to make sense to start this here...
What is "fair" in a 1 v 1?
For example:
Is it "fair" to have delving buffs up? (resist, evade, armor)
Is it "fair" to have mitigation and offense scrolls active?
Is it "fair" to use pots? (heal?, power?, wound?, poison?, fear?, disease?, stun?, daze?)
Is it "fair" to heal? (Anyone 1 v 1 a healing warden lately? What about a healing rk? or Defiler?)
Is it "fair" to use brands?
Is it "fair" to use items purchased with TP? (Crumbling brands? Store heal pots? Store bought Creep skills?)
Is it "fair" to run away? (sprint off, dying rage, etc?)
Is it "fair" to man heal?
Is it "fair" to attack before the other person is ready?
Is it "fair" to heal yourself after the other guy is dead instead of waiting to see if left over dots would kill you?
Some of these questions seem to have pretty obvious answers and some are a little more murky. (In truth I suspect it would be hard to get 100% consensus on most of them.)
-------------------------------------------------------------
A now for the murkiest question of all.... Is it fair to use cds? (And what exactly does this even mean?)
I'll use burgs as an example. Using knives out, touch and go, or hips in a 1 v 1 is murky at best. They are powerful skills and I personally don't use any of them when my opponent is obviously outmatched, but in a tough fight...
- Hips?
- Knives out?
- What about touch and go?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not naive enough to think its possible to get 100% consensus on most of this, so is there anything we CAN get consensus on?
Rule #1 - Its okay to start the fight anytime after you have both targeted each other and have both hopped up and down
Rule #2 - A 1 v 1 fight is to the death. (If you agree to a 1 v 1 fight [see rule #1] you shouldn't sprint away )
Rule #3 - No 3rd party help is allowed in a 1 v 1. (Should go without saying but...)
Rule #4 - If someone from the other side interferes in a 1 v 1 fight its fair game for everyone in the area to gank them. (It's fine if you don't want to 1 v 1 but if you feel compelled to try to ruin it for people that are having fun, then don't be surprised when people treat you like a jerk...)
Rule #5 - If it's a close fight you should expect the other person will use pretty much any skill they have. (Unless they have agreed beforehand that the skill won't be used in the fight.) If you don't like the skills they use then you don't have to 1 v 1 them, but don't get bent out of shape because someone actually used a skill in close fight...
Rule #6 - Store healing pots, power pots, and crumbling brands should not be used. (I'll be curious to see if we can even get agreement on this.)
What do you guys think? (Let the flames begin!!!!)
I always wanted to make a "What's Fair in 1v1s" thread, but it be too time consuming and not worth it, but this is the next best thing. Goood job Merr. Anyway, my stand on this:
1. No, if they do tho, counter it with scrolls I'd say.
2. No, if they do tho, counter it with delving pots I'd say.
3. No, tho it depends on burg vs anything but a reaver with stun potting is only exception imo; that could be discussed with wargs and burgs. I know, I sound like a hypocrite due to what I put in a previous thread, but I'm not being one as I said exception(s). The thing with reavers and rk tho is something that is not an exception. Heal pots and power pots are only ok if the other side uses them, or uses a cd.
4. Depends on what you mean; Heal spec wardens are frowned upon, but DPS (not heal spec) cappies that heal are not. Burgs using mischievous glee, guards using catch a breath are ok, champs bracing attack, etc. As long as the heal is not a long, 5 min+ cd and is not from a pot imo is ok.
5. No
6. No
7. No, should fight with honor to the end, tho if your opponent pulls some bs like calling friends, or goes outta combat to regen with regen food, feel free to run away.
8. No
9. No, tho you do see it a lot with rks and hunters when they are preparing
10. No; you should give ur opponent (given the fact he gives u good, clean fight from what I provided above) the respect of him getting the kb/infamy/renown/comms as well if he was close to beating you.
Hips- No; the ability to restealth with a 10 minute cd so you can get an op aim crit off is poor play.
Knives out- Sure, go ahead. 2 minute cd that can be easily countered and is not seen as op.
Touch and Go- No; 5 minute cd that can be countered, but if you cant or dont have ur slow on a burg to kite away from it, they can unload a can of whoop butt on you.
Good burgs only need to use KO outta the 3 to do well in a 1v1 imo.
Rule 1- Yes
Rule 2- Yup
Rule 3- Yup
Rule 4- Yes, and the person who is fighting you should back off, not keep helping. If that's so, both people should be ganked imo.
Rule 5- If it's a close fight, it will end the way it should end without any long cds 5 minute+ or ones seen as "I win" ones from the 1v1 community.
Rule 6- Yes
All this being said, many people won't follow these rules, but it's nice to spread this message to as many people as possible in order to make it more fair. I believe what I've posted is fair for the most part in my mind. Being an avid 1v1er for many years, I'd hope my expertise in it will suffice when it comes to fairness, but prob not as many people have different viewpoints, but w/e lol.
Originally Posted by mmdur1
I have to agree that we will never have consensus on which skills are or are not on the 'no-no for 1v1' list, but I think there should be consensus on a few things:
1) No external buffs should be used in a 1v1 - if I have scrolls or a token up then I will generally go get NPCs to kill me before a 1v1.
2) No use of consumables of any kind. This includes wound, disease, fear, poison pots. Stun pots. Root pots. No morale pots. No power pots. No store consumables. No other potions of fervour / other crafted stuff that gives you a buff.
3) No interference from other players. If another player interferes they should get zerged if possible and the 1v1 should stop.
4) No use of racial skills like Eldar's Grace, Endurance of Stone, or Strength of Morale.
5) Brands are a no-no.
Then there is the last one - no use of long CD or 'OP' skills. This is where things get squirrely and where we will not have agreement. My list is necessarily incomplete, but here goes:
RK - no armaments of storm - generally bad to use PI, though I do use it in some circumstances.
Mins - FH, TS. This is tough cause generally speaking you will not get many 1v1s period if you self-heal too much in my experience, regardless of the skills you use.
LM - wisdom, not sure about others.
Wdn - I would think that NS is a no-no, but generally using lots of self-heals
Brg - Hips is generally a no-no I think (though Merri diagrees with me above), t&g, ready and able. Not sure about knives out as most burgs I know use it and most creeps I know complain about it.
Htr - I think it is generally poor form I think to start out in camo. Other than that I think you're pretty ok to use anything.
Grd - pledge, not sure about any others
Champ - I hear a lot of creeps complain if bubbles are used. I just got my champ to 75 and would be interested in hearing others' perspective - is CB ok? Seeking? Dire need?
Capt - I think pretty much anything is cool on cappy except LS
Warg - bad to hips or sprint away, sprint to stay in range or whatnot is fine.
BA - MT (though this doesn't bother me on an RK)
Spider - I have no idea, though I would think the burrow with full heal is kinda lame in a 1v1
WL - I would say quitters, but tbh a WL in a 1v1 needs all the help they can get
Defiler - pretty much anything is cool though the flies are awfully annoying
Reaver - dying rage is kinda lame imo
1. Yup; oils are ok tho I forgot to add for hunters, as well as bow chants imo.
2. Look to my previous post.
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes
Rk- Yup
Mins- Yup, tho I think there is a way to win without self healing, but we dont have an innovator willing to try it. We all saw what happened with Shockandawe on champ showing us they could win in melee with just fervor and not kite a while ago.
LM- Yup; Is tar a 5 minute cd? Only lm I fought recently that was good is Eldreith and he doesnt use it.
Warden- Shield Spec spam healing wardens, no. Wardens that dont spam self heals and dps, yes (Deregorn, Zub only ones I see out there that can do it right now sadly). DC as well (Look to Urg vs Me to see what I'm talking aboot :P).
Burg- Knives out is ok; everything else that is a 5 minute+ cd, no. Creeps that complain about KO just dont no how to counter it lol.
Hunter- Yup on camo. Using BH; Even traited, I still consider it a 5 minute cd; what was a cd b4 a trait is still a cd.
Guard- Pledge, Warrior's Heart, Ignore the Pain. People could argue about Brutal Charge with the cd duration; It's fine for skirmisher bas. I personally never used it after a while on anything but them cuz I thought it was too strong, but it's ok to use if you want.
Champion- Bubbles are frowned upon. I'd say no to CB since its a 5 minute cd. I think fervor alone is better anyway if you know what you're doing, so why even use it heh. Seeking is ok; 2 minute cd that is counterable and makes up for lack of cd use if champs dont use them. Dire need is a no. Glory specced champs, no, fervor specced champs, yes. Sprint (even tho a cd) is ok vs skirmisher bas that perma kite.
Captain- Yes to what you said about Last Stand. Oathbreakers is a cd, but counterable, yet no. Heal spec cappies are a no no, too. Make Haste is ok for skirmisher bas.
Warg- Yes to everything except I don't even know if sprint is fine; it can allow for them to get easier positional. I say you can use if someone else uses a run speed buff.
BA- Yes, particulary against a hunter is lolz. Uruk heal by itself is fine, but if you use with MT, it's frowned upon.
Spider- Yup, burrow or full heal burrow are no nos. Exception I'd say is for sprinting champs you can burrow, not full heal one tho.
Defilers- It doesnt even matter, they are op as anything; if you beat a good 7 aud one, props to you lol.
Reaver- Yes, as long the opponent pops a buncha cds (guard popping 2 pledges, hearts, champ bubbles, etc.). Against All Odds I'd say is ok to use IF you're dev get's evaded, and it has to get COMPLETELY evaded, not partially.
Warleader- That 10 minute op cd (5 if traited) banner AFTER you get rank 6 with brawlers stance is a no no; it's understandable and acceptable for rank 5s and below without brawler stance.
Good post Dur, and you're right, we won't have a consensus of what not to use in a 1v1. It's up to us who are fighting each other to have personal agreements; other than that, most people will do what they want sadly, even it's unfair. I accepted that, I'll just make do even if it's inconvenient.
Originally Posted by Ravyrn
Topics like this are pointless.
1v1s are great in moderation, in my opinion, but when it becomes a snoozefest of 20 ppl with 75% only wanting to fight people they know they'll win against, it's time for them to end. I know many people will disagree with my approach on this topic, but it's an open pvp zone, so too bad.
They are KINDA pointless, but they are fun to partake in. That's right Vic, kill the easy 1v1 opponent-killing non believers!
Originally Posted by Hethyba
You missed Defiant Challenge. I admit I used it when I was a brand new 75 and had low audacity and utter trash gear, after checking with the folks creepside at the time if they thought it was okay. Fully geared though it's pretty much a godmode button and I'd definitely consider it an unfair advantage.
Traiting blue line and spamming self-heals is the reason no one ever wants to fight a warden 1v1, because it's lame but lots of wardens do it anyway.
Personally I don't mind if most creeps use buff consumables, especially if they're low rank. And as far as skills go it depends on the opponent. As a melee class with a puny power pool I refuse to fight a defiler that uses flies, but I could see them being fair game to use against a will-based class that can probably still take them out before their blue bar runs out.
Yes, I believe I was one of the people that said it was ok to use Defiant Challenge :/. It was my mistake after seeing how op it was lol... I did not know what wrath I had brought upon thyself hehe .
@Swift (forgot to copy ur quote); I've fought you before when you did that; I think it's ok, tho was really unexpected since all the hunters I fight now dont kite anymore. I just need to make sure I have a slow ready when your needful haste and fleetness go down lol. As long as you dont spam QS/improved BA and kite, you're fine.
Last edited by PoliticallyIncorrect69; Jun 22 2012 at 12:33 PM.
When..............(and i do mean when, cause i talked to her earlier) Wondrme comes back, she shall be under my protection if she 1v1s. Her victory shall be absolute, (sorry nips, tho i will love you long time as well). YOU SHALL NOT HARM WONDRME, IN ANY WAY!!!.......THIS I COMMAND!!!!!
Yes, I believe I was one of the people that said it was ok to use Defiant Challenge :/. It was my mistake after seeing how op it was lol... I did not know what wrath I had brought upon thyself hehe .
Yeah lol, I still wasn't used to the changes they made to the skill since I left the game, so I was like "well this skill seems a bit much but if Vinner thinks it's fair game it must be, Vinner is all about the 1v1s" and my terrible gear and rustiness at the class at the time masked its true godmodeness to me for a while. It didn't take me too long to figure it out though and I would never use it now. I think Deregorn and I are the only wardens around who 1v1 these days anyway, besides the occasional healspammer who shows up and then wanders off again when no one wants to fight them anymore lol, so not surprising that you weren't really familiar with it.
I also wouldn't use the 5 piece Spear Lord set bonus against a warleader in a 1v1, not that I get a lot of challenges from warleaders haha. Debuffing their incoming heals to 0 is just unfair, and if I need that to win I don't deserve to. (I do sometimes use it in my games of Chase The Warden Around Grothum but that's a completely different situation lol.)
1v1s shouldn't come down to whats fair or not, it should come down to whats FUN or not. That is, after all, the reason that video games were invented, to be fun. Winning the fight is what makes the 1v1s fun to some people. Sitting around watching two people duke it out, while not actually fighting themselves is fun for some people. Getting better at skill rotations/mouse turning is fun for another group of people. So my opinion is to do what you have to do to make it fun for yourself, and don't expect everyone to agree with you. You play a video game to entertain yourself, not others. All this talk of "fair" is just ridiculous and pointless. If you feel like you need to pop a cooldown or take morale pots to have fun, then go for it. As much as people like to be all self-righteous and say that you didn't play "fair" and won't ever fight you again and other various nerd-rage responses, if the fight was still somewhat close, I can guarantee that they will in fact fight you again for that revenge chance.
Tl;Dr - 1v1 with the intent to have fun, not be fair
1v1s shouldn't come down to whats fair or not, it should come down to whats FUN or not. That is, after all, the reason that video games were invented, to be fun. Winning the fight is what makes the 1v1s fun to some people. Sitting around watching two people duke it out, while not actually fighting themselves is fun for some people. Getting better at skill rotations/mouse turning is fun for another group of people. So my opinion is to do what you have to do to make it fun for yourself, and don't expect everyone to agree with you. You play a video game to entertain yourself, not others. All this talk of "fair" is just ridiculous and pointless. If you feel like you need to pop a cooldown or take morale pots to have fun, then go for it. As much as people like to be all self-righteous and say that you didn't play "fair" and won't ever fight you again and other various nerd-rage responses, if the fight was still somewhat close, I can guarantee that they will in fact fight you again for that revenge chance.
Tl;Dr - 1v1 with the intent to have fun, not be fair
+ rep. I tried to point that out in my post, but u did a better job. Well said.
Yeah lol, I still wasn't used to the changes they made to the skill since I left the game, so I was like "well this skill seems a bit much but if Vinner thinks it's fair game it must be, Vinner is all about the 1v1s" and my terrible gear and rustiness at the class at the time masked its true godmodeness to me for a while. It didn't take me too long to figure it out though and I would never use it now. I think Deregorn and I are the only wardens around who 1v1 these days anyway, besides the occasional healspammer who shows up and then wanders off again when no one wants to fight them anymore lol, so not surprising that you weren't really familiar with it.
I also wouldn't use the 5 piece Spear Lord set bonus against a warleader in a 1v1, not that I get a lot of challenges from warleaders haha. Debuffing their incoming heals to 0 is just unfair, and if I need that to win I don't deserve to. (I do sometimes use it in my games of Chase The Warden Around Grothum but that's a completely different situation lol.)
Yeah, I heard about the skill before, and seen it once before they made DC real op, but other than that, I didn't see the OP version's capability till I fought you lol. Yeah, I saw that set bonus before, that's ridic; its prolly nice vs defilers tho lol.
Originally Posted by ThankYou4NotMoshing
1v1s shouldn't come down to whats fair or not, it should come down to whats FUN or not. That is, after all, the reason that video games were invented, to be fun. Winning the fight is what makes the 1v1s fun to some people. Sitting around watching two people duke it out, while not actually fighting themselves is fun for some people. Getting better at skill rotations/mouse turning is fun for another group of people. So my opinion is to do what you have to do to make it fun for yourself, and don't expect everyone to agree with you. You play a video game to entertain yourself, not others. All this talk of "fair" is just ridiculous and pointless. If you feel like you need to pop a cooldown or take morale pots to have fun, then go for it. As much as people like to be all self-righteous and say that you didn't play "fair" and won't ever fight you again and other various nerd-rage responses, if the fight was still somewhat close, I can guarantee that they will in fact fight you again for that revenge chance.
Tl;Dr - 1v1 with the intent to have fun, not be fair
You're right Del, it's important that they are fun obv, but indirectly when you make it fair (w/e one dictates that to be), it's more fun for both parties. I 1v1 for the intent to be fun and fair obv the best way I can. I like to challenge myself without any cds, pots, etc. to make myself better, and I still have fun. I do love hearing some people nerd-rage tho aka Tarvin . The thing about the revenge chance is so true, too lol. Everyone is responsible for that, as a lot of people like to get that last win before they log off (even if you end up being 1-10 through the fights hehe). Only thing I absolutely disdain is when you find someone to 1v1, they beat you once, pop a buncha cds or get lucky and beat you, then you go to look for them for another fight, and they are gone; Then, later you find out they've logged and it just eats at you the whole day knowing you won't get another shot at them to who knows when :P. Least this is what happens to me anyway, but I'm sure many others with regard to the revenge-chance effect.
I'll consider our 1v1s fair when you fight me nekkid , so I get the benefit of killing you AND seeing ur sexy body!
Last edited by PoliticallyIncorrect69; Jun 22 2012 at 11:46 AM.
Is it "fair" that when viceras was at the 1v1s he didn't challenge anyone, and shows up there in stealth and kills me, even when I know I'm gonna lose I'll 1v1 people just for fun.
Is it "fair" that when viceras was at the 1v1s he didn't challenge anyone, and shows up there in stealth and kills me, even when I know I'm gonna lose I'll 1v1 people just for fun.
a BH hunter play fair? haha.
“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things”
Is it "fair" that when viceras was at the 1v1s he didn't challenge anyone, and shows up there in stealth and kills me, even when I know I'm gonna lose I'll 1v1 people just for fun.
You ran from me trying to kill you, to the 1v1 area, expecting sanctuary. You died. Tough luck.
Tingur, I'm not sure if we have enough tissue in this universe to quench your tears, but just know, we're here to help. If you need any tissues or anything, we're with you, child.
Tingur, I'm not sure if we have enough tissue in this universe to quench your tears, but just know, we're here to help. If you need any tissues or anything, we're with you, child.
haha gave up on trying to get me? well that makes you a quitter, even if your whole kinship was gathered you wouldnt be able to get me. so now, take your grey hair and leave.
“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things”
haha gave up on trying to get me? well that makes you a quitter, even if your whole kinship was gathered you wouldnt be able to get me. so now, take your grey hair and leave.
haha gave up on trying to get me? well that makes you a quitter, even if your whole kinship was gathered you wouldnt be able to get me. so now, take your grey hair and leave.
Like Del said, 1v1s are supposed to be fun for BOTH parties. When Konric stays max range so you can't even hit him in a set-up 1v1.. that's not fun. When Solimli bubbles, flops and then fears me to induction heal when I'm at 2k morale and he could nuke me in one skill, that's not fun, that's griefing. When certain wardens (good ones don' need to do this) spam hots, that's not fun, when glory champs double bubble and sprint during a 1v1, that's not fun. People who can play their class without using all that bullcr@p... they're fun. Urg, Nirrti, Shovo, Deregorn, Vic when he doesn't use magnitude potions. I've even had more fun 1v1 Althorr with all his store stuff up than I have 1v1 people who use op cooldowns.
Like Del said, 1v1s are supposed to be fun for BOTH parties. When Konric stays max range so you can't even hit him in a set-up 1v1.. that's not fun. When Solimli bubbles, flops and then fears me to induction heal when I'm at 2k morale and he could nuke me in one skill, that's not fun, that's griefing. When certain wardens (good ones don' need to do this) spam hots, that's not fun, when glory champs double bubble and sprint during a 1v1, that's not fun. People who can play their class without using all that bullcr@p... they're fun. Urg, Nirrti, Shovo, Deregorn, Vic when he doesn't use magnitude potions. I've even had more fun 1v1 Althorr with all his store stuff up than I have 1v1 people who use op cooldowns.
I'll defend Althorr here. He does have buffs in organized 1v1s, however, the only store buff I see him have is falling injuries usually. He has not used store pots in organized 1v1s, and I respect that. He lived up to his word.
Tingur, I'm not sure if we have enough tissue in this universe to quench your tears, but just know, we're here to help. If you need any tissues or anything, we're with you, child.
Like Del said, 1v1s are supposed to be fun for BOTH parties. When Konric stays max range so you can't even hit him in a set-up 1v1.. that's not fun. When Solimli bubbles, flops and then fears me to induction heal when I'm at 2k morale and he could nuke me in one skill, that's not fun, that's griefing. When certain wardens (good ones don' need to do this) spam hots, that's not fun, when glory champs double bubble and sprint during a 1v1, that's not fun. People who can play their class without using all that bullcr@p... they're fun. Urg, Nirrti, Shovo, Deregorn, Vic when he doesn't use magnitude potions. I've even had more fun 1v1 Althorr with all his store stuff up than I have 1v1 people who use op cooldowns.
I've never used a focus pot in an organized 1v1. But I drink that #### like koolaid when ganking.
I'm new when it comes to pvmp. I've started pvmp only 2 weeks ago and I would like to know where is/are the 1VS1 zone(s) so that I do not jump on a creep without warning and end up in some sort hate list (but I will probably get my a@@ kick anyway)
By the way, before today, I did not know there are 1vs1 zone(s) and did not know about the jumping thing to warn that we are ready. So if I did attacked someone in a 1 vs 1 zone without warning please forgive my noobness.
Is there any other Gladden pvmp rules that I should know about?
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Viceras - R13 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R9 Guard
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