Thread: Flayer has to go

Originally Posted by Rojan99

Ignoring all troll posts especially from a Minstrel who can faceroll 3 opponents at once. Try Ettenmoors as a Hunter.

Try it as a warg.

See how far you get. Not trolling you, but you do need to see the grim reality out there.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Originally Posted by Rojan99

Ignoring all troll posts especially from a Minstrel who can faceroll 3 opponents at once. Try Ettenmoors as a Hunter.

Lol. Try it as a reaver, tough guy.

Originally Posted by Rojan99

The arrogance of the Wargs is astounding.

ROFL!

By Sauron, I laughed so hard reading that I nearly choked on the Hobbit leg I was munching on!

Seriously. We are the arrogant ones? Coming from the guy who thinks all Wargs need to be nerfed because they're the one class he doesn't have EZ mode on?

You really do crack me up.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

Technically they'd have to buy a lot more than just Flayer to be instantly viable. The AoE disarm you speak of is another high rank skill, for example. A newly made Warg who just bought Flayer would be squishy, too.

Well said.

I'm a fair way towards rank 8 now (I consider myself a casual player, which is why it's taken so long) and have earned all my skills - except for admittedly buying the basic non-stealth Sense Prey (which I still think should be a low rank skill - R3 at most, but I digress).

I'm here to tell you, we're still pretty squishy.

It's probably rank 8 or 9 before all the singing from RK's, LM, and Hunter fire dots, combined with the caked blood from all those Champ AoE's and crazy Burg chain stuns, hardens up and gives us some viable protection. We won't talk about the endless ringing in our ears from Minis and Wardens shouting at us all the time.

Wargs are a light armor class. Even with a bit over 10K morale, I've had a Hunter get a series of crits and knock me down to 2K in a matter of seconds.

When Hunter's can't deal 5 - 8 times my damage, I'll be more willing to listen to them cry about our being OP.

Originally Posted by Rojan99

Ignoring all troll posts especially from a Minstrel who can faceroll 3 opponents at once. Try Ettenmoors as a Hunter.

I've a ranked Hunter, too. And a Warg. And 7 other toons that are under r9 and not worth mentioning. Rest assured though, your rebuttal has impressed me.

Originally Posted by Prancey

Lol. Try it as a reaver, tough guy.

+9000.

[QUOTE=Rojan99;6246480] You know you are OP, but are trying to avoid a fair adjustment for the sake of balance. [QUOTE]

This made me laugh, its just...hilarious omg i litterally left my computer to go into another room to laugh.... too funny

A hunter is complaining about Flayer? Shadow > Flayer for Hunters. Of course I don't have Flayer, since it is a rank above me, however I can assure you that Hunters are faceroll anyway. In fact using Flayer against a Hunter, doing less damage in a DPS race, I might actually lose such a fight.

Originally Posted by Rojan99

Ignoring all troll posts especially from a Minstrel who can faceroll 3 opponents at once. Try Ettenmoors as a Hunter.

Try it as any creep, oh Leader of Warg Hunters of Withywindle. Some leader......

Originally Posted by Turbine

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to l4j again.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PhantomPunkk again.

Darn that pesky Turbine.

Originally Posted by l4j

Well said.

I'm a fair way towards rank 8 now (I consider myself a casual player, which is why it's taken so long) and have earned all my skills - except for admittedly buying the basic non-stealth Sense Prey (which I still think should be a low rank skill - R3 at most, but I digress).

I'm here to tell you, we're still pretty squishy.

It's probably rank 8 or 9 before all the singing from RK's, LM, and Hunter fire dots, combined with the caked blood from all those Champ AoE's and crazy Burg chain stuns, hardens up and gives us some viable protection. We won't talk about the endless ringing in our ears from Minis and Wardens shouting at us all the time.

Wargs are a light armor class. Even with a bit over 10K morale, I've had a Hunter get a series of crits and knock me down to 2K in a matter of seconds.

When Hunter's can't deal 5 - 8 times my damage, I'll be more willing to listen to them cry about our being OP.

Do you have 7 audacity? Also I reccomend traiting 4 health, and two physical(or two tactical) mitigations. That'll give you 12k?(Gives me 13k) morale and Hunters won't be killing you in seconds. Atleast the Hunters on Brandywine haven't been beating me in this build, 1v1 or 1v2 (1v2 being top geared hunter and somewhat geared Hunter), but they all use Audacity gear. I know most of Vilya's Hunters use the ToO gear so they have more physical mastery. They're all squishy though! (No offense Crytical, Smugo, and Ailious!)

If you fight them in Shadow, maybe hit Snap but you shouldn't hit any other debuffs. Try to put out as much dps as you can and as fast as you can. Stay on top of them, keep red pots for their slows if they use them, and keep them slowed so they don't get too far when they use Dazing blow or run around you in circles. If you fight them in Flayer you can probably lay down some debuffs but for the most part keep those bleeds on them and that DPS. They'll drop and you'll walk away victorious.

Originally Posted by Rojan99

Flayer needs adjusted not nerfed. Reduce Sprint to 150% Speed. Reduce the number of active DoTs (5 is WAY too many). Reduce the Disarm Howl from 100% to 50% chance. Reduce the Armor value.A few minor adjustments to give Hunters a fair chance.

Ok, ok, here we go...

1) Our totally OP 5 dots that hit for a whopping 60 each?
2) The skill that has a 5 min CD? Ya, try telling a burg that HIPS only has a 50% chance to work, or maybe HS should have a 50% miss rate...
3) Our armor value that gives us just slightly more armor than a hunter (I have 9k with flayer, been told geared out hunters have 7k - 8k, correct me if I'm wrong).

Originally Posted by Rojan99

There needs to be a compromise to the Flayer stance. Too much armor, too much morale,too much damage, and too many stuns/knockdowns. And what is the trade-off? Loss of Disappear? Given the choice of Disappear and Topple, any player in their right mind will choose a 10 second knockdown. Flayer Wargs can also still Sprint (200% Run Speed) which is absolutely ridiculous. Flayer needs to be renamed to Godmode.

4) Flayer does nothing for our moral...
5) Flayer does not increase our damage (if anything, it decreases our spike damage)
6) The addition of 1 knockdown (giving us a total of 3, 2 guaranteed on 5 min CDs and 1 a chance) gives us too many? Go talk to an LM...
7) According to you, you have full audacity, so that's only a 5 second knockdown (assuming you have no DR, less if you do), get your facts right
8) I'd rather have 110% in combat run speed and 115% - 121% out of combat run speed than 200% for 20 seconds on a 5 min CD (btw, sry if sprint stops your nooby kiting....)

The problem is that you want to nerf one of the strongest creep classes to the level of the weakest freep class based on the fact that YOU can't beat them in a 1v1. Ask other hunters how to play b/c they can beat wargs in flayer.

Originally Posted by Stevo6

It's people like you who ruin the moors. Can't win a 1v1 against a creep so come to the forums and complain.

Hypocrite much?

Let's change the words around real quick.

It's people like you who ruin the moors. Can't win a 1v1 against a freep so come to the forums and complain.

As for the OP... I have found that the best way to dispatch any wargs is to use the Faron set and 5 blue traits... Improved fleetness, dazing blow, get some distance while shooting, needful haste, and blow them up.

Originally Posted by Prancey

Lol. Try it as a reaver, tough guy.

Flayer Warg is Op
Minstrel is Op
Champion is OP

All three need adjusted for balance.

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

Ok, ok, here we go...

1) Our totally OP 5 dots that hit for a whopping 60 each?
2) The skill that has a 5 min CD? Ya, try telling a burg that HIPS only has a 50% chance to work, or maybe HS should have a 50% miss rate...
3) Our armor value that gives us just slightly more armor than a hunter (I have 9k with flayer, been told geared out hunters have 7k - 8k, correct me if I'm wrong).



4) Flayer does nothing for our moral...
5) Flayer does not increase our damage (if anything, it decreases our spike damage)
6) The addition of 1 knockdown (giving us a total of 3, 2 guaranteed on 5 min CDs and 1 a chance) gives us too many? Go talk to an LM...
7) According to you, you have full audacity, so that's only a 5 second knockdown (assuming you have no DR, less if you do), get your facts right
8) I'd rather have 110% in combat run speed and 115% - 121% out of combat run speed than 200% for 20 seconds on a 5 min CD (btw, sry if sprint stops your nooby kiting....)

The problem is that you want to nerf one of the strongest creep classes to the level of the weakest freep class based on the fact that YOU can't beat them in a 1v1. Ask other hunters how to play b/c they can beat wargs in flayer.

I understand you are concerned about an adjustment to your class. The typical response is to try and "downplay" the situation with false or exaggerated claims. Both myself and the developers know better so you are wasting your time.

Originally Posted by Rojan99

Flayer Warg is Finally Balanced a bit
Minstrel is Op
Champion is OP

All three need adjusted for balance.

Fixed that for ya, tough guy.

Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro

Hypocrite much?

As for the OP... I have found that the best way to dispatch any wargs is to use the Faron set and 5 blue traits... Improved fleetness, dazing blow, get some distance while shooting, needful haste, and blow them up.

Now why did you have to go and give practical advice that Hunters on my server could see and follow and perhaps force me to use all my cooldowns to win?

Originally Posted by Maryam

Now why did you have to go and give practical advice that Hunters on my server could see and follow and perhaps force me to use all my cooldowns to win?

Lol don't worry. They'll all trait like that expecting every warg to be flayer. Just burn em down during opening Pounce, easy for a R4, should be easier for you .

Originally Posted by Dontdazemebro

Hypocrite much?

Let's change the words around real quick.

It's people like you who ruin the moors. Can't win a 1v1 against a freep so come to the forums and complain.

As for the OP... I have found that the best way to dispatch any wargs is to use the Faron set and 5 blue traits... Improved fleetness, dazing blow, get some distance while shooting, needful haste, and blow them up.

Many Hunters have tried that on me.
Those hunters fell.

Originally Posted by Rojan99

I have tried every possible attack strategy and battle plan to take down wargs in Flayer 1 vs 1 but cannot win. This stance needs adjusted or needs to be a rank 12 unlock and NEVER on the Store. I am boycotting Ettenmoors until this is fixed.

Rank 10 Hunter

Three things to say that may help you:

1.) You said you stayed awake for 72 hours grinding star-lit crystals for your weapon. Turn your computer off, go outside and enjoy the fresh air.

2.) You are the leader of a kinship called Warg Hunters and yet you can't beat wargs ... hmmm ... I would suggest buying a kinship renaming token from the store.

3.) The fact that you personally cannot beat a warg using Flayer stance does not automatically mean that Flayer wargs are OP. It is a possibility of course, in the same way that it is possible to randomly pick the winning lottery numbers. A far more likely explanation is that you simply aren't all that good as a Hunter vs Flayer wargs.

In short Flayer wargs are just fine the way we are. It's an unfortunate reality that Hunters are a free lunch for us. I don't make the rules, I just enjoy them.

I would go one step further than saying flayer has to go.. ALL CREEP SKILLS SHOULD GO. Creeps should only be able to attack with autoattack! It will only be then TRUE balance will be achieved.

I'm pretty sure most wargs should be able to eat hunters up if they got the jump on them 95% of the time...

Flayer vs shadow doesn't matter, most times if you lose to a hunter its because you fail....hunters have been the easiest class to kill in game as a warg (despite big crits in Moria and especially keyboard turners) for a long time now.

Hunter inductions + medium armor ftw.....yes they've had improvements to allow them to spam skills. Most times it doesn't help. Only with audactiy do you really notice the difference (example: 7 aud hunter vs 1 aud warg...yeah not so fun but I still took the hunter to 1.5k)

Not quite sure wargs are getting so defensive (perhaps its the OPs wording/title) when its reality. Hunters are easy to kill period and they have been for a long while now.

at this point its not worth your time to QQ about pvmp, the only thing turbine cares about is your money, not your opinion, if you want things to eventually change stop giving turbine ANY money

Originally Posted by Rojan99

I understand you are concerned about an adjustment to your class. The typical response is to try and "downplay" the situation with false or exaggerated claims. Both myself and the developers know better so you are wasting your time.

Project much?

*snickers uncontrollably*

I do find it mildly amusing that this thread is your very first forum post, and you only joined the forum this month. Yet, somehow, you seem to know the fine art of trolling and many of the common staples of this place - but at the same time have never stated which R10 hunter you are on which server.

So . . . can we all say troll?

Were your previous accounts blocked, or was this one special just to see if you could get a rise out of the Wargies?

Oh, and I just love that 'you and the developers' thing. That's EPIC!

Originally Posted by MrWarg

Three things to say that may help you:

1.) You said you stayed awake for 72 hours grinding star-lit crystals for your weapon. Turn your computer off, go outside and enjoy the fresh air.

2.) You are the leader of a kinship called Warg Hunters and yet you can't beat wargs ... hmmm ... I would suggest buying a kinship renaming token from the store.

3.) The fact that you personally cannot beat a warg using Flayer stance does not automatically mean that Flayer wargs are OP. It is a possibility of course, in the same way that it is possible to randomly pick the winning lottery numbers. A far more likely explanation is that you simply aren't all that good as a Hunter vs Flayer wargs.

In short Flayer wargs are just fine the way we are. It's an unfortunate reality that Hunters are a free lunch for us. I don't make the rules, I just enjoy them.

What you said . . .

And love that Sig, Grimm. It's awesome in a completely Warglike way.

Originally Posted by Buttkickington

Minstrels beat my Reaver 1v1 all the time, WS has to go.
RKs beat my Reaver 1v1 everytime they crit with EC, EC has to go.
Shield Wardens beat my Reaver 1v1 everytime, the Shield line has to go.
etc etc.

I like where this is heading. I say we just "balance" everything around reavers and call it a day.

Originally Posted by cmal

I like where this is heading. I say we just "balance" everything around reavers and call it a day.

Did you not get the joke?

Originally Posted by Rojan99

I have tried every possible attack strategy and battle plan to take down wargs in Flayer 1 vs 1 but cannot win. This stance needs adjusted or needs to be a rank 12 unlock and NEVER on the Store. I am boycotting Ettenmoors until this is fixed.

Rank 10 Hunter

Just get him from range, like you're supposed to.... You can kill creeps in just few seconds from range you know...


What if we creeps were to boycot every freep skill we deemed op? No creep on earth would play then, there are just so many freep skills that needs nerfing/tweaking, not to mention whole classes.

Amusing that a Freep complains about a creep being op (or in this cause having an op skill) when Minstrels, Champions, and Wardens are running around killing things at will, and refusing to die. Lol of course they complain about Wargs....the only Creep class that can actually handle freeps. You try and playing a reaver, and you will understand what true unfairness really is.

Hunters can beat Wargs. We have a few on my server that just nuke everything in sight, wargs included,.....unless of course 3+ wargs jump them at once. You just have to have the right strategy.

If Mini, Warden, and Champion are nerfed, or creeps are brought to their lvl, then yea, take Flayer away.

And whoever said BA's crit for more than Champs need to have their eyes checked....or take their ezmode goggles off.

Edit: Oh, and on a quick note, I wanted to point out that I shred most of the hunters on my server using Shadow Stance, not Flayer. (except the few ones i mentioned before). And last time I checked, Flayer isn't a purchasable skill.

Originally Posted by Selebrimbor

Amusing that a Freep complains about a creep being op (or in this cause having an op skill) when Minstrels, Champions, and Wardens are running around killing things at will, and refusing to die. Lol of course they complain about Wargs....the only Creep class that can actually handle freeps. You try and playing a reaver, and you will understand what true unfairness really is.

Hunters can beat Wargs. We have a few on my server that just nuke everything in sight, wargs included,.....unless of course 3+ wargs jump them at once. You just have to have the right strategy.

If Mini, Warden, and Champion are nerfed, or creeps are brought to their lvl, then yea, take Flayer away.

And whoever said BA's crit for more than Champs need to have their eyes checked....or take their ezmode goggles off.

Edit: Oh, and on a quick note, I wanted to point out that I shred most of the hunters on my server using Shadow Stance, not Flayer. (except the few ones i mentioned before). And last time I checked, Flayer isn't a purchasable skill.

Flayer is purchasable now.

Originally Posted by Buttkickington

Did you not get the joke?

Of course I did but that doesn't change the fact that I think it would be a suitable benchmark for those demanding nerfs. Reavers are worse off then any other class as far as I am concerned.

Originally Posted by cmal

Of course I did but that doesn't change the fact that I think it would be a suitable benchmark for those demanding nerfs. Reavers are worse off then any other class as far as I am concerned.

Oh I see what you're saying. Nice

Easy solution: make Orion 'fix' hunters

Originally Posted by Rojan99

Ignoring all troll posts especially from a Minstrel who can faceroll 3 opponents at once. Try Ettenmoors as a Hunter.

Yeah, I imagine 2-3 shotting greenies must be so hard.

Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug

Hunters cannot beat good wargs. End of story. I've been able to beat every hunter on my warg solo since rank 4 probably and I'm now 6 and give me a few more ranks and it won't even be close.

You beat all the hunters on your server as a rank 4 warg? Props to you, but you have some really bad hunters on your server then. You should come on Gladden and fight the some of the hunters there; guarantee you you'd change ur opinion.

Honestly, hunter and wargs can have good fights, even ones with flayer. On my chode fatty hunter, I used to beat good flayer wargs sometimes, sometimes I didn't. Whatever people are saying that hunters are bad in the moors are stupid. Even with the audacity update, hunters are still a great 1v1 class and class in general. Freeps got stronger across the board with star-lit crystals, and hunters werent nerfed; they are still fine. Whoever made up the rumor that they werent are morons. They are pretty balanced at the place they are at right now imo. I wish I could still play my hunter (premium now and they fixed the "log off in the moors" and "cappie summon" bugs) because I still needed a couple more things with my build. If I got the last couple things I needed and star-lit crystals, I don't think I would lose very many 1v1s. Not bragging, just saying how strong my build would be, it be hard to win, no matter how good you were. Of course, I wouldn't be able to beat a good, high ranked defiler ever, but meh, no one really can .

To the OP: do you have 7 aud, what's your specs, devices of agil etc.? Put your toon's name so I can see on mylotro.

I love posts like this:

"I can beat everyone else, just not flayer wargs. NERF them."

News flash, some classes by design have advantages over other classes. This phenomenon is not just limited to wargs and hunters; How about minies, champs, wardens and burgs V's....Everyone? Your point of view, it seems, is far too narrow and your motive is clear; It is not so much that you can't get kills, it's just that you don't want to lose :/

Now for a quick correction; Topple is not 10 seconds. Everyone gets rank 1 audacity, that means a 25% reduction in CC. Topple is therefor 7.5 seconds.

Creeps had to put up with years of 8 second startling twists, from a class that, like a warg, has stealth not to mention more DPS and more survivability.

You say flayer is too strong and therefor needs a downside. It has one, no stealth, no silence and less DPS.

Hunters do machine gun damage with a bow, have solid CC and out of combat traps and snares. Their down side is oh &&&& skills but it's hardly as big an issue as most hunters make it out to be. You don't need a get away skill when your target is 1/2 dead before making it into melee range. What do you want, a guaranteed chance to escape from a fight you think you might lose? Try DF, I have had plenty of hunters slow and kite me during a fight, only to slow, run and DF when it looked bad.

Don't get me wrong here,I still make a good living by killing unsupported hunters (usually between the rez and wherever the fight is) while there is a raid of freeps out. Champs are also a good close fight (if they don't blow CD's) Supported hunters on the other hand....nope. Hunter DPS with any freep support class, esp cappy, is god mode.

I think many hunters are too used to gold tagging of a larger group or pew pewing from a keep for easy points. There are still plenty of hunters out in the moors because they do massive damage, in a short period of time, from 40 meter range and they rake in the renown.

Most hunters on E I can beat in both shadow or flayer, however, the ones that get the jump on me will have me 1/2 dead with a improved swift bow followed by a pen shot before I even get into melee range.

Your winning strategy is staring you in the face; use that 40 range to your advantage. Good hunters camouflage up somewhere put down a snare and wait for wargs (you have stealth too). If you get in first, and have a little skill, you will win most fights. Don't forget you also have 2 x fears, 2 x stuns and 2 x slows a warg can only pot out of 1 leaving their pot on CD and nothing they can do with a 2nd application.

Originally Posted by Felajarko

Try it as any creep, oh Leader of Warg Hunters of Withywindle. Some leader......

The only r10 Hunter on withywindle is a girl,surely not this Troll

Leader of Warg Hunters of Withywindle... I swear i never saw a Kin called like that there either...

I have studied all the great War Masters , from Szun Tzu to Worgnakh, and if the Devs will not adjust Flayer Wargs then I must accept my defeat. I will now disband my Kinship and prepare for Seppuku.

Originally Posted by Rojan99

I have studied all the great War Masters , from Szun Tzu to Worgnakh, and if the Devs will not adjust Flayer Wargs then I must accept my defeat. I will now disband my Kinship and prepare for Seppuku.

gl with that

Try rolling a brand new creep and try to survive and let me know how that goes for you! Stop whining about our stances, that's the last that thing we need is another nerf!