Thread: Flayer has to go
Jun 21 2012 07:02 PM #41
Jun 21 2012 07:13 PM #42
Jun 21 2012 07:18 PM #43
By Sauron, I laughed so hard reading that I nearly choked on the Hobbit leg I was munching on!
Seriously. We are the arrogant ones? Coming from the guy who thinks all Wargs need to be nerfed because they're the one class he doesn't have EZ mode on?
You really do crack me up.Hobbits . . .
Now them's good eatin'!
Jun 21 2012 07:27 PM #44
I'm a fair way towards rank 8 now (I consider myself a casual player, which is why it's taken so long) and have earned all my skills - except for admittedly buying the basic non-stealth Sense Prey (which I still think should be a low rank skill - R3 at most, but I digress).
I'm here to tell you, we're still pretty squishy.
It's probably rank 8 or 9 before all the singing from RK's, LM, and Hunter fire dots, combined with the caked blood from all those Champ AoE's and crazy Burg chain stuns, hardens up and gives us some viable protection. We won't talk about the endless ringing in our ears from Minis and Wardens shouting at us all the time.
Wargs are a light armor class. Even with a bit over 10K morale, I've had a Hunter get a series of crits and knock me down to 2K in a matter of seconds.
When Hunter's can't deal 5 - 8 times my damage, I'll be more willing to listen to them cry about our being OP.Hobbits . . .
Now them's good eatin'!
Jun 21 2012 07:37 PM #45
Jun 21 2012 07:39 PM #46
Jun 21 2012 07:40 PM #47
[QUOTE=Rojan99;6246480] You know you are OP, but are trying to avoid a fair adjustment for the sake of balance. [QUOTE]
This made me laugh, its just...hilarious omg i litterally left my computer to go into another room to laugh.... too funny
Jun 21 2012 07:44 PM #48
A hunter is complaining about Flayer? Shadow > Flayer for Hunters. Of course I don't have Flayer, since it is a rank above me, however I can assure you that Hunters are faceroll anyway. In fact using Flayer against a Hunter, doing less damage in a DPS race, I might actually lose such a fight.
Last edited by Maryam; Jun 21 2012 at 07:47 PM.Lizaveta, rank 9 Minstrel.
Eviliz Unseen, rank 10 Warg.
Lizifer, rank 9 Defiler.
Jun 21 2012 07:53 PM #49
Jun 21 2012 07:55 PM #50
Jun 21 2012 08:05 PM #51
If you fight them in Shadow, maybe hit Snap but you shouldn't hit any other debuffs. Try to put out as much dps as you can and as fast as you can. Stay on top of them, keep red pots for their slows if they use them, and keep them slowed so they don't get too far when they use Dazing blow or run around you in circles. If you fight them in Flayer you can probably lay down some debuffs but for the most part keep those bleeds on them and that DPS. They'll drop and you'll walk away victorious.
Jun 21 2012 08:06 PM #52
1) Our totally OP 5 dots that hit for a whopping 60 each?
2) The skill that has a 5 min CD? Ya, try telling a burg that HIPS only has a 50% chance to work, or maybe HS should have a 50% miss rate...
3) Our armor value that gives us just slightly more armor than a hunter (I have 9k with flayer, been told geared out hunters have 7k - 8k, correct me if I'm wrong).
5) Flayer does not increase our damage (if anything, it decreases our spike damage)
6) The addition of 1 knockdown (giving us a total of 3, 2 guaranteed on 5 min CDs and 1 a chance) gives us too many? Go talk to an LM...
7) According to you, you have full audacity, so that's only a 5 second knockdown (assuming you have no DR, less if you do), get your facts right
8) I'd rather have 110% in combat run speed and 115% - 121% out of combat run speed than 200% for 20 seconds on a 5 min CD (btw, sry if sprint stops your nooby kiting....)
The problem is that you want to nerf one of the strongest creep classes to the level of the weakest freep class based on the fact that YOU can't beat them in a 1v1. Ask other hunters how to play b/c they can beat wargs in flayer.
Jun 21 2012 08:13 PM #53
Let's change the words around real quick.
It's people like you who ruin the moors. Can't win a 1v1 against a freep so come to the forums and complain.
As for the OP... I have found that the best way to dispatch any wargs is to use the Faron set and 5 blue traits... Improved fleetness, dazing blow, get some distance while shooting, needful haste, and blow them up.
Jun 21 2012 08:18 PM #54
Jun 21 2012 08:26 PM #55Former Leader of Warg Hunters of Withywindle
Jun 21 2012 08:29 PM #56
Jun 21 2012 08:31 PM #57
Jun 21 2012 09:59 PM #58
Jun 21 2012 10:04 PM #59
Jun 21 2012 10:30 PM #60
1.) You said you stayed awake for 72 hours grinding star-lit crystals for your weapon. Turn your computer off, go outside and enjoy the fresh air.
2.) You are the leader of a kinship called Warg Hunters and yet you can't beat wargs ... hmmm ... I would suggest buying a kinship renaming token from the store.
3.) The fact that you personally cannot beat a warg using Flayer stance does not automatically mean that Flayer wargs are OP. It is a possibility of course, in the same way that it is possible to randomly pick the winning lottery numbers. A far more likely explanation is that you simply aren't all that good as a Hunter vs Flayer wargs.
In short Flayer wargs are just fine the way we are. It's an unfortunate reality that Hunters are a free lunch for us. I don't make the rules, I just enjoy them.
Follow on Twitter: @theartofwarg | LOTRO Players Council
Jun 21 2012 10:35 PM #61
I would go one step further than saying flayer has to go.. ALL CREEP SKILLS SHOULD GO. Creeps should only be able to attack with autoattack! It will only be then TRUE balance will be achieved.Grugnug
You have to first be insane to truely experience sanity
Jun 21 2012 11:11 PM #62
I'm pretty sure most wargs should be able to eat hunters up if they got the jump on them 95% of the time...
Flayer vs shadow doesn't matter, most times if you lose to a hunter its because you fail....hunters have been the easiest class to kill in game as a warg (despite big crits in Moria and especially keyboard turners) for a long time now.
Hunter inductions + medium armor ftw.....yes they've had improvements to allow them to spam skills. Most times it doesn't help. Only with audactiy do you really notice the difference (example: 7 aud hunter vs 1 aud warg...yeah not so fun but I still took the hunter to 1.5k)
Not quite sure wargs are getting so defensive (perhaps its the OPs wording/title) when its reality. Hunters are easy to kill period and they have been for a long while now.
Last edited by Ames; Jun 21 2012 at 11:16 PM.Life is what happens while you are busy making other plansAmradhil, Hunter of LandrovalAmestoplease, RK of MeneldorAmbusher, Warg of Meneldor
Jun 21 2012 11:30 PM #63
at this point its not worth your time to QQ about pvmp, the only thing turbine cares about is your money, not your opinion, if you want things to eventually change stop giving turbine ANY money
Jun 21 2012 11:33 PM #64
I do find it mildly amusing that this thread is your very first forum post, and you only joined the forum this month. Yet, somehow, you seem to know the fine art of trolling and many of the common staples of this place - but at the same time have never stated which R10 hunter you are on which server.
So . . . can we all say troll?
Were your previous accounts blocked, or was this one special just to see if you could get a rise out of the Wargies?
Oh, and I just love that 'you and the developers' thing. That's EPIC!Hobbits . . .
Now them's good eatin'!
Jun 21 2012 11:36 PM #65
Jun 21 2012 11:42 PM #66
Jun 21 2012 11:50 PM #67
Jun 21 2012 11:59 PM #68
What if we creeps were to boycot every freep skill we deemed op? No creep on earth would play then, there are just so many freep skills that needs nerfing/tweaking, not to mention whole classes.
Leader of the Warg Supremacy Foundation. Retired since RoR came.
Jun 22 2012 12:17 AM #69
Amusing that a Freep complains about a creep being op (or in this cause having an op skill) when Minstrels, Champions, and Wardens are running around killing things at will, and refusing to die. Lol of course they complain about Wargs....the only Creep class that can actually handle freeps. You try and playing a reaver, and you will understand what true unfairness really is.
Hunters can beat Wargs. We have a few on my server that just nuke everything in sight, wargs included,.....unless of course 3+ wargs jump them at once. You just have to have the right strategy.
If Mini, Warden, and Champion are nerfed, or creeps are brought to their lvl, then yea, take Flayer away.
And whoever said BA's crit for more than Champs need to have their eyes checked....or take their ezmode goggles off.
Edit: Oh, and on a quick note, I wanted to point out that I shred most of the hunters on my server using Shadow Stance, not Flayer. (except the few ones i mentioned before). And last time I checked, Flayer isn't a purchasable skill.
Last edited by Selebrimbor; Jun 22 2012 at 12:20 AM.Silence r7 Warg Stalker
Jun 22 2012 12:31 AM #70
Jun 22 2012 01:49 AM #71Cmalberg - Elendilmir
-Stickygritz, Gritzwarr, and all those Gritz. Greblam
Rock is OP, nerf rock. Paper is balanced.
I mean everything I ever say, ever.
Jun 22 2012 01:56 AM #72
Jun 22 2012 02:23 AM #73
Easy solution: make Orion 'fix' hunters
"Because I'm sane, and I know I am because I'm constantly thinking 'don't be crazy' to myself. Crazy people don't do that because crazy people don't worry about becoming crazy"
Jun 22 2012 02:57 AM #74
Jun 22 2012 03:56 AM #75
Honestly, hunter and wargs can have good fights, even ones with flayer. On my chode fatty hunter, I used to beat good flayer wargs sometimes, sometimes I didn't. Whatever people are saying that hunters are bad in the moors are stupid. Even with the audacity update, hunters are still a great 1v1 class and class in general. Freeps got stronger across the board with star-lit crystals, and hunters werent nerfed; they are still fine. Whoever made up the rumor that they werent are morons. They are pretty balanced at the place they are at right now imo. I wish I could still play my hunter (premium now and they fixed the "log off in the moors" and "cappie summon" bugs) because I still needed a couple more things with my build. If I got the last couple things I needed and star-lit crystals, I don't think I would lose very many 1v1s. Not bragging, just saying how strong my build would be, it be hard to win, no matter how good you were. Of course, I wouldn't be able to beat a good, high ranked defiler ever, but meh, no one really can .
To the OP: do you have 7 aud, what's your specs, devices of agil etc.? Put your toon's name so I can see on mylotro.
Last edited by PoliticallyIncorrect69; Jun 22 2012 at 04:11 PM.
Jun 22 2012 04:16 AM #76
I love posts like this:
"I can beat everyone else, just not flayer wargs. NERF them."
News flash, some classes by design have advantages over other classes. This phenomenon is not just limited to wargs and hunters; How about minies, champs, wardens and burgs V's....Everyone? Your point of view, it seems, is far too narrow and your motive is clear; It is not so much that you can't get kills, it's just that you don't want to lose :/
Now for a quick correction; Topple is not 10 seconds. Everyone gets rank 1 audacity, that means a 25% reduction in CC. Topple is therefor 7.5 seconds.
Creeps had to put up with years of 8 second startling twists, from a class that, like a warg, has stealth not to mention more DPS and more survivability.
You say flayer is too strong and therefor needs a downside. It has one, no stealth, no silence and less DPS.
Hunters do machine gun damage with a bow, have solid CC and out of combat traps and snares. Their down side is oh &&&& skills but it's hardly as big an issue as most hunters make it out to be. You don't need a get away skill when your target is 1/2 dead before making it into melee range. What do you want, a guaranteed chance to escape from a fight you think you might lose? Try DF, I have had plenty of hunters slow and kite me during a fight, only to slow, run and DF when it looked bad.
Don't get me wrong here,I still make a good living by killing unsupported hunters (usually between the rez and wherever the fight is) while there is a raid of freeps out. Champs are also a good close fight (if they don't blow CD's) Supported hunters on the other hand....nope. Hunter DPS with any freep support class, esp cappy, is god mode.
I think many hunters are too used to gold tagging of a larger group or pew pewing from a keep for easy points. There are still plenty of hunters out in the moors because they do massive damage, in a short period of time, from 40 meter range and they rake in the renown.
Most hunters on E I can beat in both shadow or flayer, however, the ones that get the jump on me will have me 1/2 dead with a improved swift bow followed by a pen shot before I even get into melee range.
Your winning strategy is staring you in the face; use that 40 range to your advantage. Good hunters camouflage up somewhere put down a snare and wait for wargs (you have stealth too). If you get in first, and have a little skill, you will win most fights. Don't forget you also have 2 x fears, 2 x stuns and 2 x slows a warg can only pot out of 1 leaving their pot on CD and nothing they can do with a 2nd application.
Last edited by ksjock; Jun 22 2012 at 09:58 AM.
Jun 22 2012 04:57 AM #77
Jun 22 2012 05:24 AM #78
I have studied all the great War Masters , from Szun Tzu to Worgnakh, and if the Devs will not adjust Flayer Wargs then I must accept my defeat. I will now disband my Kinship and prepare for Seppuku.
Former Leader of Warg Hunters of Withywindle
Jun 22 2012 08:05 AM #79
Jun 22 2012 08:17 AM #80
Try rolling a brand new creep and try to survive and let me know how that goes for you! Stop whining about our stances, that's the last that thing we need is another nerf!