I am wanting to start a new character and would like to try one of the healer classes (Rune-keeper, Minstrel, possibly Lore-Master. However I don't know much about them. Could someone offer some comparisons? I'm not going to ask which one is best, since that's pretty subjective, but just some general traits, like ease of use, or which are most effective at healing fellowships (and what levels they become effective at doing so).
Groups will usually always need a healer. Raids need 2 maybe 3. Both can dps (rks mainly).
Lm is more debuffs and crowd-control. Another healing class you might wanna look into would be a cappy.
Pros: Always needed. fun to play. easy leveling.
Cons: People depend on you. Kinda stressful.
There is no best in my opinion but cappies are awesome in fellowships. Especially 2 cappies in the same group. Minis are epic solo. Rks are awesome all around, but the attunement thing may take some getting used to.
As said above, the Lore-master really isn't a healing class. They have a few healing skills available but they just aren't effective enough to be counted on to heal full-time.
The Minstrel is the main healing class. If you learn the class well they are very effective. They also can be excellent at damage. The only drawback with the mini is that you need to be in a particular stance to be truly effective at either healing or damage.
The Rune-keeper is a good healer as well. They do not have the restriction of needing to be in a stance but you do need to build up your attunement (either healing or damage) to access the heavy hitter-type skills. You do have an option to quickly change your attunement from one to another if needed but it can be tough to switch back mid fight.
The Captain is another great healer. If traited and geared just right they can run as the main healer for all but the most demanding run. Unlike the RK or Mini, the Cappy needs to be up front in the thick of the fight to be effective since their best group heal requires either a critical hit or a kill in order for the skill to be available.
Which one you choose really depends on the play style you're looking for. I myself prefer to use my RK for main healing. My mini is my newest character so I'm still learning the ropes there. My captain though has been one of my favorite characters for a long time.
The mini and rk are both light armored so they can't take too much of a pounding but the captain can be darn-near unkillable if set up right.
I'd say that if you have enough character slots to do so, give them each a try.
Minstrel has great healing skills from the start, making them useful for group healing even low level content. They're the "original" healer class (RK was introduced in the first expansion). At higher levels, a healing traited captain can heal most content. I haven't played RK, but they are supposed to be as good as minstrel for healing, with a different flavor and more HoTs compared to the minstrel.
Minstrel is the most straight-forward healer. You have 3 basic heals, a small quick one (Raise the Spirit) that's expensive in power and a larger, slower one (Bolster Courage) that's more power-efficient. And finally an instant heal (Chord of Salvation) which is very expensive in power, but can save a fellowship member from the brink of death. Then there's 2 group heals, the first one (Inspire Fellows) is basically the small heal x6 (if you're in a full fellowship) + a small damage resist buff. The other one (Triumphant Spirit) is larger, instant and very powerful, but has a long cooldown period (and will give you tons of aggro, which can be a problem in boss battles where adds spawn during the fight). Don't hesistate to use this skill if it seems like you're close to a wipe, it's probably the best fellowship-wide panic button in the minstrel's arsenal.
Later on you get a small HoT (Soliloquy of Spirit), nothing special. You can also slot a legendary trait for another group heal (Fellowship's Heart), this one is HoT and also very powerful.
Last edited by MannyCalavera; Jun 21 2012 at 09:17 AM.
Okay, let's look at your potential healing classes:
Minstrel: Powerhouse healer. Major AoE damage dealer in Warspeech. Anthems buff the whole fellowship or provide morale and power regen to the Minstrel. Several major healing legendaries (Fellowship's Heart) and a few OMG fellowship-wide heals, a protective self- and other-bubble, as well as Songs to open gated skills for other players and there really isn't anything a Minstrel can't handle. Choose Minstrel if you enjoy a demanding healer class with a lot of solo or small group DPS.
Runekeeper: Powerhouse DPS. Runekeeper is one of the top DPS classes in the game. Traited properly Runekeepers also are significant healers. They do not have the buffs or gateway skills that the Minstrel has, they are primarily reactive healers rather than pro-active buffers and healers. They have several debuffs and corruption removal skills that are in great demand in raids. Choose Runekeeper if you enjoy being able to switch to meet a group's need or want to solo with high DPS and good healing skills.
Captain: The Indispensable. Moderate DPS, legendary buffs, crit, block and power regen buffs, Herald or Banner buffs, group heals, shield brother perks, fear removal, in combat rez, Last Stand. Really, what's not to like? A healing captain is everything a fellowship or raid could desire. Choose Captain if you want a melee healer and a class everyone likes having around.
Lore-master: Not really a healing class as such, but an excellent secondary healer that brings a lot to the table in fellowships. Crowd control, mezzes, debuffs, power share, tanking or dps pets, significant AoE damage and, best of all, stun immunity. Choose Lore-master if you like a challenging class requiring constant tactical decisions that can heal a tad bit.
1. Minstrel - awesome class. Soloing gods (probably not as good as wardens - haven't played my warden in almost a year so I don't know where they're at after the latest fixes), one of the sturdiest classes in the game, with excellent dps. And when you're in a group, healing is actually quite easy even when you're still trying to figure out how that side of the class works. The only negative thing I can say about minis is that the extensive retraiting to go between solo build and your choice of healing builds is a bit of a pain. To me, minstrel is competitive with burglar for the most fun class in the game.
2. Captain - I believe GalateaOrea's summary has a typo, cappy dps is the very worst in the game - you'll kill things slightly slower than a shield-using guardian. I nearly gave up on my cappy in the mid-50s, then got the archer herald, and at 60 a red capstone build with the oathbreaker archer brings the dps up to tolerable levels. The other down side of the captain is the mediocre solo survivability. You've got good mitigations from your heavy armor, but that's about it. Self-healing is unreliable - rally cry requires a defeat response or a crit, which are inherently unpredictable. You can trait the fear-removal skill to give a weak self-HOT. If you use a hope herald, that's a potion-sized heal skill - but if you're using that herald after the mid-50s you're gimping your already low dps by not using the archer. There's always the man-heal, but that's once per hour. On the positive side, cappys are fantastic in groups, tremendously fun and rightly valued and welcomed for any run. And there's pretty good diversity in builds for grouping, I think any of the three trait lines are perfectly viable depending on whether you want to focus on off-tanking, off-healing, or boosting dps. The only reason I haven't touched my captain in about six months or so is because he's on a server that's completely dead at the times I can play - the fun for captains is in grouping, no point getting him the rest of the way to level cap when there won't be any groups to join.
3. RK - I quit mine at 40 because they're so very squishy. This is at least one update out of date (Feb. 2011 is when I last used mine, I think) so maybe they're better now. You'd think they'd be equally squishy as minstrels, but the latter have a good sized instant heal, a bubble, and can get a variety of helpful effects off of codas if necessary. At least back when I played my RK I don't recall much in the way of "get out of trouble" skills like that. Just try to blow stuff up faster than it kills you, kiting as terrain permits. Works for some people, not for me apparently. I'd guess that healing (and grouping in general) would be pretty fun on a RK, based on the very limited experience I had back then.
Honestly, the best answer to this kind of question is to simply try each class out. Level them all to 20ish, get at least a first impression of whether the play style suits you or not. And if you care about being able to group later on, choose your server wisely!
2. Captain - I believe GalateaOrea's summary has a typo, cappy dps is the very worst in the game - you'll kill things slightly slower than a shield-using guardian.
Maybe that's true leveling up. Its certainly not true post lvl 60 when captains get their Shadow's Lament and have the cooldown leg for it. An OP guard with similar offensive stats to an LtC Captain does a little more single target DPS and a lot more aoe. Shield though? No.
Minstrel and Rune Keeper: two main healing classes. Both are great, but mechanics is different. As a RK you see a lot of HoTs on all group members and their morale is usually topped. As a mini you have to wait when the damage is taken and react fast to it. Different approach, I find RKs more enjoyable but it is all up to you. Minstrels also bring very nice buffs to the group, RKs have other buffs - less understood or even known. Try both till lvl20 and do some Great Barrows runs, this should give you the feeling. If you choose RK, be prepared to prove all the time that your healing is good enough. You may hear that minstrels are better and some people will refuse to invite you as a healer. Though you will be always accepted as dps. If you choose mini, be prepared that healing will be your only fellowship role. Even if you will enjoy dps a lot (many minstrels do) you will not be accepted as a dps class.
Captain: Great survivability in solo. At lvl 60+ with the LtC traits you can get enough morale return with the revealing mark on the mob so the self-healing is not an issue nowadays (was more so before RoI). You can heal or tank, but usually you will not be asked to main-heal or main-tank (only by friends who trust you). And yet everybody wants to have you in a group! They will never blame you and rarely question your gear. People will love you just because of the class, not your skills.
If you are happy healing any time you are in a group setting, go with the minstrel. While they can do some nice burst DPS that is good for the moors, the power cost is too much to sustain making them useless for DPSing in group content.
If you want a class that can switch, and heal sometimes, dps the rest, then go with the RK. The minnie is overall easier to heal with, with the heals being instant (as in, non-hot, not insta-cast). Healing a group with an RK can get kind of stressful at times as if your tank isn't good and the aggro changes, now you have to start stacking HoTs on someone else to keep them alive...
The LM you can completely discount if you want to heal, although, they can be fun to play...
The Captain is the other healing class. If you want to be as important to the playerbase as a healer, but don't want to stand there spamming the same skill (plus some buffs), the captain may be the way to go. Just remember, the captain is a jack of all trades, master of none.
Actually a properly traited Lm can heal at least 3mans. I am not certain if they can do 6mans as I have never had one try.
As for having trouble switching healing to a non tank with RK, I never have this problem. I always aim to have a tier 3 writ of health and a Prelude to Hope running on everyone in the group. Then after that I am putting heals into whoever is taking damage. There is no difference on my end as to who it is at that point. The only thing I will say about RK healing is that the first few seconds can be stressful as you begin to ramp your attunement up. But after that everything smooths out and I am good to go no matter where the damage is going.
Just want to throw in my 2 cents here about the Captain.
While it's true we can heal pretty good - to lump us in there with ministrels and rune-keepers is a little misleading. I do feel we are on a competitive basis when it comes to single-target healing - it's our group-wide healing that hinders us.
We have two AoE heals, Rally Cry and Valliant Strike - and both of them are risky to depend on. Rally Cry depends on a defeat response to trigger, which means something needs to die first. Valliant Strike - though useful in emergencies, is on a pretty long cool-down and can't be depended on frequently.
Our main heal (and only direct-targeting heal for that matter), Words of Courage - is fast but it's also mediocre. It's not a bomb heal - and it needs to be used repeatidly on a single target to counter heavy damage. This means you can't throw Words of Courage on a range of different targets to keep everyone alive against heavy AoE damage. It needs to be concentrated.
So basically while it may be true Captains can heal by themselves the great majority of content on this game - I woudn't go so far as to describe them as a healing class. We are still ultimately a support class, and lack the capacity to "bomb heal" during intense group-wide incoming damage - which can be nessassary sometimes. Though how often depends largely on who you are playing with.
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but this was just so nicel relevant to my question.
So what do you think, would Captain and a LM be able to heal 6-mans together (while still being able to remain useful in other ways, too)? I've seen lots of opinions that both might have at least somewhat hard time doing The Healing in 6-mans, but I think I've not seem any opinions about them combined. Oh, and assume the group has a decent guardian as a tank, and enough dps too.
On the other hand, would a good warden as a tank help to take off the healing strain from a LM, considering all the self-healing )compared to. Guard or champ, say)? Or do the self-heals just help the warden get on-par with guardians in group content, and depend there as much on healers as other tanks?
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but this was just so nicel relevant to my question.
So what do you think, would Captain and a LM be able to heal 6-mans together (while still being able to remain useful in other ways, too)? I've seen lots of opinions that both might have at least somewhat hard time doing The Healing in 6-mans, but I think I've not seem any opinions about them combined. Oh, and assume the group has a decent guardian as a tank, and enough dps too.
On the other hand, would a good warden as a tank help to take off the healing strain from a LM, considering all the self-healing )compared to. Guard or champ, say)? Or do the self-heals just help the warden get on-par with guardians in group content, and depend there as much on healers as other tanks?
In my opinion, a heal traited Captain and a heal traited LM with the spirit of nature pet could heal some 6 mans, but not all. The cappy would be better at it. The LM would do CC and debuffs. In 3-mans, there are lots of 3-mans that a captain or a LM would be successful as the main healer. Warden/capt/LM 3man decently geared and played probably could do all of the 3mans T2CM and do a number of 6 mans too, but not the T2CM 6-mans using the small fellowship. I can see the Warden/Captain/LM doing some 12-man raids using the small fellowship .
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but this was just so nicel relevant to my question.
So what do you think, would Captain and a LM be able to heal 6-mans together (while still being able to remain useful in other ways, too)? I've seen lots of opinions that both might have at least somewhat hard time doing The Healing in 6-mans, but I think I've not seem any opinions about them combined. Oh, and assume the group has a decent guardian as a tank, and enough dps too.
On the other hand, would a good warden as a tank help to take off the healing strain from a LM, considering all the self-healing )compared to. Guard or champ, say)? Or do the self-heals just help the warden get on-par with guardians in group content, and depend there as much on healers as other tanks?
The short answer is yes, with capable players Captain + LM can heal 6man content.
The long answer is that a level capped LM's excellent single target heals paired with the captain's moderate single-target heals and excellent group heals would make a very nice combo. Throw LM defensive debuffs into the mix and on-level stuff like SG T2C shouldn't be too much of a problem--the Captain might not even need to use defensive buffs like shield/song brother. Again I'm talking good players here.
So I've a Captain main and just got my LM to cap last week. Straight up though, my LM seems to out-single-target-heal my Captain when the Captain is not fed defeat responses. I tested this on training dummies, parsing heals on Eagle/Herald (my LM was AM traited), and I also have made field observations main-healing WP T2C on both toons. I mean they're both in the same ball park, but my LM seems to have an edge in single-target heals when the Captain has to rely on synthetically generating defeat responses with crits. Both can buff tank's incoming healing by the same amount too, and the yellow-traited LM prevents more damage with his debuffs than the Captain can prevent on the tank with parry buff + Shield Bro To Arms ( do not count IDOME as I never use it while mainhealing. Either Red or Blue capstone for me). AoE heals, on the other hand, are firmly the domain of the Captain, when comparing the two. That's even with group flank heals for the LM. But the LM debuffs are still superior to the Captain buffs in preventing group damage, aside from the Captains big skill In Harms Way. That leads me to another point, that Captains have big tide-turners like Shield of the Dunedain and In Harms Way.
So having main healed all sorts of 6mans on my Captain in RoI & RoR and having recently broken into the LM healing scene, I am certain that Captain + LM could work. Some 6mans I don't have experience main healing would be the Fornost instances. Well Earth I've healed and Fire isn't so bad, but Water and Shadow are pretty tough. I suspect they could be done by Captain + LM though. Perhaps just Captain too. I'll certainly try once they put worthwhile loot there to spark glff's interest.
On Wardens and other tanks, it first and foremost depends on the player. Well captanks are kinda hamstrung for aggro but between guards and wardens, its a matter of player calibur and gear. I am not familiar enough with practiced chanks to comment. Lately, though, I've been seeing excellent Wardens have an easier time both surviving with less heals and holding aggro in instances. Wardens have this Achilles Heel of spike damage gotten from a string of bad luck/missed BPEs. The bigger hitting the boss is, the more aggravated that weakness becomes. But I only see it becoming apparent against hard raid bosses and certain others like Beremud, and really brings them down to guard level rather than below it. Just my take on the tank balance at the moment. It changes with different patches.
Okay, let's look at your potential healing classes:
Runekeeper: Powerhouse DPS. Runekeeper is one of the top DPS classes in the game. Traited properly Runekeepers also are significant healers. They do not have the buffs or gateway skills that the Minstrel has, they are primarily reactive healers rather than pro-active buffers and healers. They have several debuffs and corruption removal skills that are in great demand in raids.
Actually RKs are primarily proactive healers that put heals over time on targets that they think might get hit, whereas minstrels are primarily reactive healers that respond to damage that has already been done. Effective RK healing requires building up HoTs on various targets. RKs have only one direct, large heal that also gives a small heal to the rest of the group in range, but they have a bubble to prevent a target in trouble from taking damage and a single-target buff to significantly increase the healing received by that target. They also have one channeled group heal. Effective RK healing does require traiting for heals. Traited for DPS, RK heals are not very powerful and eat up a lot of power, but it is possible for an dps-traited RK to switch to heals in an emergency and save a group. They are much more squishy than a minstrel and have fewer self-heals available when dpsing.
The question is less if Cappy/LMs CAN heal this and that, but moreso HOW.
Lets assume our Cappy has top-of-the line gear and a capable player behind. He still requires the whole group to be mindful of his healing capabilities. They have to adjust. The group will for example have to...
Captain: main/off healer, depends.
at least he has heavy armour...
Well I'm biased. I wanted to play a healer so bad in lotro, but I dislike the fact it is at the expense of survivability.
Nuanced because all the healing classes have skills, such as bubbles to make up for it.
But after have done countless raids in which light armour users get 1 shot, I certainly can't roll such classes anymore.
It's just a matter of preference. Try them all and pick the one you prefer.
Minstrel
PROS: Cool music; lots of yelling while solo; can teach friends how to play the Pibgorn.
CONS: There is no violin.
Rune-keeper
PROS: A great excuse to work on your rock collection.
CONS: A portion of the community hates you for being this class.*
Loremaster
PROS: You can have a real pet like a frog or a turtle; you'll be playing the only class that can use staves.
CONS: You'll have to dumb yourself down when you play with other classes because you're just too awesome and will ruin their fun.
Captain
PROS: You get to yell frequently in both solo and group situations.
CONS: For a while some dude named Harold or one of his brothers will be following you around, it's kind of creepy.
*I am not part of this portion of the community.
"I am gloating so, so very much right now. Everyone called me a fool to do every deed! People pointed and laughed! And now, I have a horse with a smock! HAHAHAHAHA" - Anamatronix
Minstrel
PROS: Cool music; lots of yelling while solo; can teach friends how to play the Pibgorn.
CONS: There is no violin.
Rune-keeper
PROS: A great excuse to work on your rock collection.
CONS: A portion of the community hates you for being this class.*
Loremaster
PROS: You can have a real pet like a frog or a turtle; you'll be playing the only class that can use staves.
CONS: You'll have to dumb yourself down when you play with other classes because you're just too awesome and will ruin their fun.
Captain
PROS: You get to yell frequently in both solo and group situations.
CONS: For a while some dude named Harold or one of his brothers will be following you around, it's kind of creepy.
*I am not part of this portion of the community.
+rep !
Awesome, simply awesome!
Never seen anyone nail it on the head.
I am laughing so hard, I'll have to re-type this a few times to post it, since the boards time out due to my laughin fit.
Another addendum to my answer to the "Can LM + Captain heal 6mans?" question, my buddy wakeandbacon tells me stories of how at 60 cap he healed either all or just most of the Moria 6mans as a part of an LM/Captain heal combo. Like apparently they were some of the first to cap on Brandywine and capped minstrels were in short supply. And I guess RKs were untested at the time. Was a neat history to hear about though--made me think of this thread again.
Captain: main/off healer, depends.
at least he has heavy armour...
Well I'm biased. I wanted to play a healer so bad in lotro, but I dislike the fact it is at the expense of survivability.
Nuanced because all the healing classes have skills, such as bubbles to make up for it.
But after have done countless raids in which light armour users get 1 shot, I certainly can't roll such classes anymore.
It's just a matter of preference. Try them all and pick the one you prefer.
Well, I na raid situations any class being not in a righ place and time can be one shot. I don't see burgs or hunters much more stronger on that field.
And a minstrel has much more survivability while solo playing than most of the classes. Hard to say on which place. Not first, as it is taken by wardens, but not much further...
I have all 4 at cap so a short summary from my point of view
Minstrel:
- easy to learn healing
- very powerfull direct healing spells and emergency heals
- in combat rez
- buffs for the group while healing, have to be activated every 10-35 seconds depending on traits and equipment
- good for solo play in warspeech
Runekeeper
- advanced class, mostly HoT so you need to guess what will happen
- some usefull emergency skills
- no real in combat rez, you need to guess who will die next
- if you are kiting and know your skills good for solo play, good dps class
Loremaster
- advanced class, primary cc and some damage
- with the right traits good for some 3 man instances or support healer
- no combat rez
- hard to learn but solo fun after lvl 50
- power supply for the group
Captain
- good for healing small groups but you need to stay close to the enemy
- main buffer, buffs wirk for 30 minutes, some off tank
- lowest damage of all 4 but better mitigation thx to heavy armor
- 2 in combat rez
- some skills needed the brother skills or defeat of enemies
- can keep a group also up with power when he uses songbrother
- most boring to level solo, shines in groups
When people ask for a healer they mostly want a minstrel or runekeeper.
Last edited by Erebthoron; Feb 08 2013 at 08:06 AM.
Well, I na raid situations any class being not in a righ place and time can be one shot. I don't see burgs or hunters much more stronger on that field.
And a minstrel has much more survivability while solo playing than most of the classes. Hard to say on which place. Not first, as it is taken by wardens, but not much further...
Well you're right on both accounts:
- I have hunter, and our survivability is low if we get touched.
- I haven't tried a minstrel and you have one who is level 85 so you know them better. I just said that according to my observations while raiding. More a general statement about non heavy armour classes. I don't feel our armour matters at all.
If you intend to level mostly by group play, then just about any of the three are fun nad is just a matter of opinion on which like best. If you are in a strong group, which does not require much healing, then you want to contribute via buffs or crowd control, thus the Minstrel and Loremaster shine. The Runekeeper's build-up requirement makes it a one-trick-pony: Either you heal or obliterate stuff to oblivion (very high DPS). If the group can do without muh heal, your DPS is fantastic and thus your contribution.
If you intend to level mostly solo to level, then DPS is the name of the game, and for that the Runekeeper is unmatched, of the three she is followed by the Minstrel and very far behind the lore master.
Now once leveled, the advice of many of the posters is right on the money.
You should. My mini was no more one-shotted in raids than my champ. And after the revamp she can solo everything just as good if not even better.
Before we got warspeech self heals I remember doing SH on my minstrel with LM and cappy friends. I was the tank , they were the healers and doing some dps but since I managed to keep aggro all the time easily it wasnt that huge dps. It was one of the most fun runs I ever did in the game and it even didnt take that long.
You should. My mini was no more one-shotted in raids than my champ. And after the revamp she can solo everything just as good if not even better.
Before we got warspeech self heals I remember doing SH on my minstrel with LM and cappy friends. I was the tank , they were the healers and doing some dps but since I managed to keep aggro all the time easily it wasnt that huge dps. It was one of the most fun runs I ever did in the game and it even didnt take that long.
Guess what, I am doing that atm. Leveled one minstrel all night long. I'm loving it so far. A few observations:
- The war speech feels OP at lower levels. I think I have more dps than I had with my champ or my hunter, even my rune keeper. I feel like also having a dps build at level cap now.
- I dropped my Rune Keeper after the instance in the lone lands, in which I got one shot by Ivar. I was benefiting from a rush from a level 85 champ. I was not supposed to get hit, I stood next the entrance..... I suppose that won't be different with the minstrel.
- I am already suffering from low survivability. Using the fear lessens that, self heals as well, but honestly in addition I have huge mana issues. I get oom fast. Good thing that will be addressed at U10.
Junior Member Online status:
Reputation:
Senior Member Online status:
Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
The only negative thing I can say about minis is that the extensive retraiting to go between solo build and your choice of healing builds is a bit of a pain. To me, minstrel is competitive with burglar for the most fun class in the game.
Grand Member Online status:
Originally Posted by J_Howell
Poster of Note Online status:
Reputation:
Senior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Counter of Stairs Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Poster of Note Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
, they were the healers and doing some dps but since I managed to keep aggro all the time easily it wasnt that huge dps. It was one of the most fun runs I ever did in the game and it even didnt take that long.
Reply With Quote
Posting Permissions
