Thread: Need for Turbine to adjust mechanisms for player events

Social activities in LOTRO have evolved in extrordinary ways which means leadership of this MMO need to have a "heads up" to mechanisms that are falling behind. Forced Emotes are certainly becoming a large problem and there are now a goodly number of threads addressing that very problem. Violating anothers gameplay with your action is a no-no in any PVE MMO and should never have been implemented in a socially heavy game. At least not without some parameters.

There are two other things the leadership of this MMO should be aware of regarding the social part of gameplay, one is Turbines "one size fits all" stipulations of the default chat channels. A rather interesting evolvement has now happened and that is the invention of huge "broadcast" player events. I dont think Turbine envisioned such a thing but yet here they are. Landroval has two of them a year now. We have now seen that even griefers send in tickets complaining about the overuse of /regional by a broadcast event. Using /say doesnt work with something like Weatherstock with 500 in attendance. And its bugged itself part of the time. Asking 500 to set up an /rp channel is a technical nightmare. Do you see the limitations? Somewhere down in this suggestion forum I mentioned we ought to have a "events" chat channel. Not only that but an events 1, an events 2, and events 3 channel so overlapping activites dont conflict.

I think those in charge understand that event leaders do not want to break any codes of conduct, EULAS or rulesets. It has now been established there is a loophole that can be used to to incriminate a wholesome gathering using /regional as its broadcast medium. If we are going to get scolded by GMs for the use of /regional for broadcasting then we are pretty limited in how we present such an event.

The other problem is the way griefers are handled. This is in the context of holding an event. If nothing is done about the forced emotes and we see such griefing, not only should the player get a ban for at least a few hours, but the whole account should get it. There is nothing so frustrating as to see a griefer get the boot and then see his alt appear within 15 minutes. There should be permanent bans in effect after a certain number of tickets sent in on a similar problem with any griefer. Known griefers should be walking on eggshells around any social event. Period!

We will be planning for Weatherstock V with the expectation that Turbine will surely address all of these problems and give some solutions.

Absent either an "opt out" for forced emotes, or their removal if an "opt out" isn't going to be implemented, applying the "Serious Business" "debuff" to the area around a planned event ought to be possible....using the entire zone, if that is the only way it can be done...for the duration of the event, plus a buffer around it.

Likewise, if an event is planned and Turbine is given sufficient notice (say, 30 days), all GMs should be notified of the event and what resources are going to be needed, like the use of /regional. Turbine can then put up a notice to GMs about what is going on, that it has company sanction, and that no action is to be taken against the use of that channel for that purpose.

These things should be arranged only for events that take the time and make the effort to notify Turbine ahead of time and meet any requirements that Turbine may feel are needed.

As for the griefers...all griefers should be walking on eggshells, whether in regard to organized events or not.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Agreed. If Turbine knows about it, let alone advertises it, they need to be on the ball in terms of griefers all the way down the chain of command.

Amen to this...

Griefers are like those kids who get a nerf gun and decide they need to fire it at random people on the street...

Originally Posted by whheydt

Likewise, if an event is planned and Turbine is given sufficient notice (say, 30 days), all GMs should be notified of the event and what resources are going to be needed, like the use of /regional. Turbine can then put up a notice to GMs about what is going on, that it has company sanction, and that no action is to be taken against the use of that channel for that purpose.

These things should be arranged only for events that take the time and make the effort to notify Turbine ahead of time and meet any requirements that Turbine may feel are needed.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

We had that covered for our event. It worked for 3 years prior. Something broke with that procedure this year.
This is the event that stresses the server more than any other event. They love testing server stress. They stay up nights anticipating it.

Originally Posted by morrowbreeze

Social activities in LOTRO have evolved in extrordinary ways which means leadership of this MMO need to have a "heads up" to mechanisms that are falling behind. Forced Emotes are certainly becoming a large problem and there are now a goodly number of threads addressing that very problem. Violating anothers gameplay with your action is a no-no in any PVE MMO and should never have been implemented in a socially heavy game. At least not without some parameters.

There are two other things the leadership of this MMO should be aware of regarding the social part of gameplay, one is Turbines "one size fits all" stipulations of the default chat channels. A rather interesting evolvement has now happened and that is the invention of huge "broadcast" player events. I dont think Turbine envisioned such a thing but yet here they are. Landroval has two of them a year now. We have now seen that even griefers send in tickets complaining about the overuse of /regional by a broadcast event. Using /say doesnt work with something like Weatherstock with 500 in attendance. And its bugged itself part of the time. Asking 500 to set up an /rp channel is a technical nightmare. Do you see the limitations? Somewhere down in this suggestion forum I mentioned we ought to have a "events" chat channel. Not only that but an events 1, an events 2, and events 3 channel so overlapping activites dont conflict.

I think those in charge understand that event leaders do not want to break any codes of conduct, EULAS or rulesets. It has now been established there is a loophole that can be used to to incriminate a wholesome gathering using /regional as its broadcast medium. If we are going to get scolded by GMs for the use of /regional for broadcasting then we are pretty limited in how we present such an event.

The other problem is the way griefers are handled. This is in the context of holding an event. If nothing is done about the forced emotes and we see such griefing, not only should the player get a ban for at least a few hours, but the whole account should get it. There is nothing so frustrating as to see a griefer get the boot and then see his alt appear within 15 minutes. There should be permanent bans in effect after a certain number of tickets sent in on a similar problem with any griefer. Known griefers should be walking on eggshells around any social event. Period!

We will be planning for Weatherstock V with the expectation that Turbine will surely address all of these problems and give some solutions.

Absolutely, I agree.

/signed.

Check out this post from Celestrata:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...mmer-Fun-event!

I am grateful to Turbine for supporting player-run events, however this brings the matter to the forefront very quickly. I'd like to know how Turbine will permit us to use the Regional channel. If they are going to provide us with an alternate system, now is the time.

Originally Posted by morrowbreeze

We had that covered for our event. It worked for 3 years prior. Something broke with that procedure this year.
This is the event that stresses the server more than any other event. They love testing server stress. They stay up nights anticipating it.

Sounds like you need to use this years screwup as leverage to get the phone number of the GM supervisor on duty so you can make sure everything is in place on the GM front and call immediately if there are any problems with GMs.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by XinaLotRO

Check out this post from Celestrata:
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...mmer-Fun-event!

I am grateful to Turbine for supporting player-run events, however this brings the matter to the forefront very quickly. I'd like to know how Turbine will permit us to use the Regional channel. If they are going to provide us with an alternate system, now is the time.

I noticed that too and think this provides us with the perfect opportunity to raise this issue more visibly.

Originally Posted by whheydt

Sounds like you need to use this years screwup as leverage to get the phone number of the GM supervisor on duty so you can make sure everything is in place on the GM front and call immediately if there are any problems with GMs.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

I'd absolutely like Turbine to tell us what happened or crossed the line here. Especially as I'm pondering how to set up something for their summer of fun.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...75#post6244375

I'd say being told to stop using channels for a purpose that Turbine knew they were being used for for event purposes would be decidedly un-fun.

I would like to add a request for a /advertise channel, where people can do all their advertising. This channel, like the three event-channels Tinki requested should be turned on by default so that everyone can get the messages there and is able to opt-out if they want.

If we had channels *this* clearly named -with names totally fitting their intended purpose- people would very likely happily turn off the specific channels they feel disturbed by their content. The ones who complained at this years Weatherstock about abusing /regional chat would had no reason to complain whatsoever. I can understand that they won't like to leave the /regional chat for a reason which is unrelated to a problem unrelated to the name of the channel. A stage microphone is ultimately something different than a regional wide chat. This -in the end- was surely the reason why one of our band-singers got his warning.

All this can be avoided in the future. Make it clear, make it simple. Make it opt-out. Remove pain for people in the area, remove pain for organisers of large-scale events, remove pain for your GM's.

Originally Posted by Glenwin

I would like to add a request for a /advertise channel, where people can do all their advertising.

I love this idea, however I predict that it would quickly come to be known as the Cricket Channel, because anybody advertising on the channel would only hear crickets in response.

I appreciate and enjoy some player-run events. However, they can and sometimes do interfere with other players' enjoyment of the game. Regardless of the amount of time and effort an organizer puts into an event, others have made similar investments in their own gameplay and deserve the same value and respect.

I've attended Weatherstock for 3 out of the past 4 years. (I missed 2010.) I don't expect I will attend next year. It has evolved from a friendly "come play with us in the game world" to an attitude of "come marvel at the spectacle we have produced." Quite frankly, the sense of smug self-importance and entitlement evidenced by a few of the organizers and participants this year ruined my enjoyment.

I do not support the suggestion that Turbine change game mechanics, add features, or adjust policies to accommodate player events. It should remain the responsibility of organizers and participants to play by the same rules as everyone else, and to react maturely and respectfully if issues arise, even if other players don't.

Originally Posted by Fredelas

I do not support the suggestion that Turbine change game mechanics, add features, or adjust policies to accommodate player events. It should remain the responsibility of organizers and participants to play by the same rules as everyone else, and to react maturely and respectfully if issues arise, even if other players don't.

I must respectfully disagree with your premise here. Weatherstock isn't merely a player event, it is one that was heavily promoted and advertised by Turbine itself. As such, it is the responsibility of the event organizers, participants, and Turbine to work together in order to minimize the impact on those who choose not to attend as well as maximize the fun and excitement for those who do.

I haven't seen anything in this thread asking for a change in policies or general mechanics, however, I believe the addition of an Events channel (or several, to address Morrowbreeze's point of overlapping events), would benefit not only the organizers of player-driven social events, but also Turbine as a whole, by making it clear that:

1. They recognize a growing need and desire to fill it.

2. They truly do stand behind their players AND the events that they themselves advertise on their site.

This could bring nothing but good to Turbine as the public relations boost they would gain from this alone would only add to their reputation as a good game company.

If the game mechanics you are referring to is the forced emotes issue, that is a subject which has been under plenty of discussion elsewhere, and I really don't think needs to be overly discussed here, but I will say that changes to that mechanic are not just asked for by event organizers, but also by "the common player", if you will.

Oh, just in case I didn't make it clear where I fall on this issue, I am all for anything that can be done to make the next Weatherstock, or any other player event, run smoothly, and I fully intend to attend the next one as well.

Please remember that all the channels which are suggested here benefit everyone. Weatherstock isn't the only event by far. And I repeat the idea that the channels are also named this way to bring clarity for *everyone*.

For those interested in the specific channel-related situation of Weatherstock IV, there is a lovely (and I mean that sincerely) blue-name response towards the end of the Weatherstock IV thread on the Landroval forums: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...03#post6246203

Unless I've missed something, we still have not seen a Turbine response to the emote griefing issue in any of the many recent threads on that topic. I'd love to hear that they are taking the issue seriously and are thinking through how to handle it, even if they haven't developed the perfect solution yet.

At any rate, I'd be supportive of any practical measures that can be implemented to improve the event experience. It doesn't sound like anyone here is suggesting anything that would be a radical departure from policy/practice, just some tweaks to ensure that all goes smoothly and misunderstandings are avoided.

Originally Posted by Fredelas

I appreciate and enjoy some player-run events. However, they can and sometimes do interfere with other players' enjoyment of the game. Regardless of the amount of time and effort an organizer puts into an event, others have made similar investments in their own gameplay and deserve the same value and respect.

I've attended Weatherstock for 3 out of the past 4 years. (I missed 2010.) I don't expect I will attend next year. It has evolved from a friendly "come play with us in the game world" to an attitude of "come marvel at the spectacle we have produced." Quite frankly, the sense of smug self-importance and entitlement evidenced by a few of the organizers and participants this year ruined my enjoyment.

I do not support the suggestion that Turbine change game mechanics, add features, or adjust policies to accommodate player events. It should remain the responsibility of organizers and participants to play by the same rules as everyone else, and to react maturely and respectfully if issues arise, even if other players don't.

To the part of your view we have created a marvel for your enjoyment, I sincerely apologize. The ten bands who signed were a huge part of the "marvel" and the fact that 9 of the ten bands came from different servers is a marvel to all of us. That there were donations which totaled 450 gold in prizes was marvelous too. That with a lot of stress on the lead planners this event goes so smoothly is a marvel itself. To get 500 attendees coming from different servers make even us marvel.

Here is an example of where we, as a kinship, set the template for an event and then we network with advertising for participation. In the end its the people that make it the spectacle it is. Its not our "smug" wizardry that tries to dumbfound you all with OUR magnificence.

I do not expect you to realize how excited we get in our preparations and in our advertisement. Advertisement of such an event builds on the advertisement of the year and years before it making it "top heavy" at times. But we do learn from the past. Last year we bombarded you all with our prize monies amounts to try to get participation. It worked bringing attendance form 340 ish in `10 to 500 in `11. What did we do wrong with that?

It takes 40 to 50 real people to organize this event. Each of us have differing views on all areas of gameplay yet we team up for this event with heavy enthusiasm and pretty much a single minded attitude. That attitude is "how do we make this event smoother and how can we make it more fun to attend". To lump us in the "smug" category seems unfair.

We have been worrying over how we are perceived as a kinship. We know we are a large and very active kinship. We know its not good to "steamroll" other groups and other planned events. We do not intend to hold hostage chat channels for our convenience, but we work with what we have and beg indulgence for 5 hours for one day out of 365. If we had an "events" series of channels this all would be moot, because we would be "over there" with our events. What we have done and are doing is wanting to give all like minded players who want RP entertainment a venue and it just so happens we must be doing it right because we have been pretty successful .

Hence, since we are knowlegeable about these types of events we have seen with increasing frequency the shortfalls of present mechanisms in the area of Party RP and events of such.

Your view is in contrast to our views and thats fine. We believe there is room for improvement related to forced emoting, griefing, and use of chat channels for broadcast events. Your opening statement leaves open the possiblilty that we could both be comfortable with said changes in a mature way. If lag created by such an event is part of your problem with them then take that up with Turbine please.