Exactly what we're aiming for... and what do you think is the easiest way? Testing all current and future raids if there isn't a timed-event somewhere and replacing it with a morale-trigger (if at all possible) or adjusting (what is it, 4?) burg-debuffs and never having to worry about it again?
Additionally, timer-based events add a bit of variety to raid encounters since unlike morale-based events it matters how fast you do stuff, making DPS a more important element of the raid. Not all timer-based events are 'zergs', and you're essentially suggesting to remove the option entirely, making completely different tactics possible, like 'slowing down' to recover and each raid having x amount of 'waves' happening each time.
Ingaras, lvl 75 Elven Hunter; and others... The Western Alliance, Laurelin "The priority now is the store not the game. The store no longer supports the game, its the other way around."
And it's not like Thorog, Acid T2C or F&F T2C were designed to be 90 second tank and spank fests - it's what people make of it due to the power of burg stacking.
(...)
Actually developing content like this without limitting Burg debuffs leaves less design options for interesting encounters, as you cannot use morale based triggers without taking the risk to have your bossfight broken by Stacks of Burglars
Discussing content that doesn't exist yet wouldn't really get me anywhere (I've also lost faith in Turbine's instance people again after briefly regaining it when OD came out), but the problems we see now aren't that difficult to resolve without changing class mechanics at all. Acid is probably the easiest of all...hell, tier 1 removes the power of burg stacking, more or less, it's just tier 2 that's the problem. If the boss becomes invulnerable when adds spawn, then you can't keep DPSing him to complete the challenge. It's pretty clear that they wanted the extra challenge of adds + boss on tier 2, but didn't think it through...simple solution: link shield to adds, keeping boss active instead of making him kneel (can carry that over to tier 1 too); basically, as soon as adds spawn, boss is invulnerable, when they die, he's vulnerable until acid rises (or could even stay invulnerable), but keeps attacking. Now even with burg stacking, you have to survive one round of acid (my opinion on silly jumping mechanics withheld due to irrelevance) and instead of "completely circumventing the fight mechanics" (which is certainly an issue), it becomes an issue of "no extra reward for finishing 10 seconds faster". The fact that some groups jump one round while others jump three isn't exactly game-breaking.
Fire and Frost suffers from a different issue (being tested on a spreadsheet, not in-game...if it was tested at all). Before anything else, it would have to be adjusted to be doable...hell give the grims a -10% miss chance aura (or add -miss chance to the mitigation debuff you get for hitting the giants), and the impossibility of the fight for the most part drifts away. It'd still be too hard for the first lock of a raid, but it would be doable. Once it's legitimately beatable, can address stacking DPS to circumvent mechanics by changing the bubble (the main thing being circumvented) to trigger at either 2 minutes or 50% total encounter morale (whichever comes first). The issue is mechanics being circumvented, right? Not a personal crusade against this class or that?
As for Thorog...well, it's true that it wasn't meant to be a 90 second tank and spank fight, it was meant to be a 40 minute tank and spank fight. Nowadays it's a 5 minute one, or something...I don't even care. Does it matter how long it takes? It was never particularly inspired or fun and it's too old to change now.
I'm not petitioning for Orthanc to be changed, mind you. It's pointless now, as it will be obsolete by the time anyone bothers to do anything to it. All I'm trying to do is show that without changing the fundamental mechanics of the encounter or dumbing anything down, the issue of circumventing mechanics by stacking this or that can be resolved without sweeping class changes. Which is not to say I like the fights as they are (single target DPS races), just that if I was to suggest massive overhauls to the design of every fight in Orthanc at this point, I'd only end up looking like an idiot.
All that being said, one thing I can wholeheartedly agree with in this whole thread is that the Command, Perseverence and Unseen sets need to disappear and never be spoken of again. There should not be PvP sets that are far and away the best sets to use in PvE. Especially not if they also happen to have limited or no utility in PvP on top of that. Frankly the itemization of some of the PvP armor makes the conservative Orthanc set bonuses (many of which look a lot better on paper than in practice) seem insulting by comparison.
Do keep in mind that at no point did I state that burglars, hunters, champs, wardens, loremasters or anything else don't need changing in one way or another. There's a long list of things I'd like to see changed with an assortment of classes, which is a story for a different thread.
The point I made previously, and continue to make is not that burgs (or champs, hunters, whatever other class) do not need to be balanced up or down (or some combination), but that no class should be adjusted to accomodate poorly designed instances...poorly designed instances (or instances in general) should be re-designed to accomodate classes as they are at the time. If burglars do need to be scaled down (I'm rather partial to alternative marks to reveal weakness personally), it should be because they're unbalanced compared to other classes, not because of an effect they manage to have on stupid DPS races. Already existing content and charts from four years ago (which incidentally were never accurate or popular to begin with) are no basis for sweeping class changes.
Saelraen Feywind, Third Worst Champion on Landroval
As one of the kins that has beaten F/F and that has 2 OT raids a week, we HATE having to stack burgs for a fight. It leaves too many people out. We only have stacked burgs for F/F and we have only zerged down Acid 3 times. Once for fun, 2 other times to go for the title. All of are other acid runs, 2 champs. Shadow runs 3 hunters or 2 hunters and rk. Saruman 3 healers. Who has beaten Saruman T2CM with only 2 healers? In what raid have we even seen 3 healers needed for a 12 man raid? Who really cares what burgs can really do when they are stacked. We dont because its not something we would feel proud to do every week. If other people feel so proud to do all of OT stacking burgs, so be it, but please dont make it sound like this is what everyone does because its the easiest way to beat all the bosses, because its not. For one, beating F/F with 3 burgs is pretty damn hard, it took alot if time to nail down our strat and alot of things have to go right. Its not like we are going in there one shotting it. And its not someting we are going to be able to do every week, it leaves to many others in our kin out of raids. We are going to start trying it with 2 burgs. But what we would really like to do is beat the fight how it was meant to be beat, that way eveyone in our kin has a chance at the tittle of clearing all of OT T2CM in one night. This tread should NOT be about burgs stacking, it should be about holding Tubine accountable for fixing a raid that gives everyone the chance to beat it. All of us paid for this raid and it should work for everyone, after that, its up to you.
Actually developing content like this without limitting Burg debuffs leaves less design options for interesting encounters, as you cannot use morale based triggers without taking the risk to have your bossfight broken by Stacks of Burglars
I disagree.
If you're fine being stuck in old conventions, sure it's more limiting. Be content living on the inside of the box if you must. Don't you think it's more than possible to use something other than time or boss morale triggers to propel a raid encounter? I sure do.
Or change Burg debuffs so they can keep feeding us the same DPS drool-fests that plague pretty much all of ToO.
There are so many ways to make Burg stacking moot from a content standpoint without changing their debuffs in the least. So long as you aren't fixated on changing the fundamentals of a class, I guess. To each their own. I have nothing more to add - guess we'll see what happens.
I do all my soloing and small group in 3 Perseverance, 3 Dagor. In raids, Command is vastly stronger though -- group benefits outweighs personal benefits... And if you choose to go HOH, you can still do fine in Command, but 3/3 setup is LtC focused.
Against one target I'll agree, but the power of being able to output RC every 6 seconds or so is just plain and simply awesome for other boss fights. At last phase Saruman T2HM you can choose to go to a group of Saruman, pretty much spam PA and heal through much of the insane damage you take in there.
Getting 21s on SL is awesome as well, can even reach 13s due to Dagor bonus. With 3-4 Burglars that allows a Captain to reach 1.5k DPS or more, some of our Captains do 1.4-1.7k DPS in F+F Challenge iirc.
With +5% inc dmg from Sure strike the DPS classes will probably get another 80-120 DPS each, but you will lose a lot of DPS yourself so the difference is IMO neglible if not equal. The extra RCs are a welcome boost as well imo.
Originally Posted by Southpa
I disagree.
If you're fine being stuck in old conventions, sure it's more limiting. Be content living on the inside of the box if you must. Don't you think it's more than possible to use something other than time or boss morale triggers to propel a raid encounter? I sure do.
Or change Burg debuffs so they can keep feeding us the same DPS drool-fests that plague pretty much all of ToO.
There are so many ways to make Burg stacking moot from a content standpoint without changing their debuffs in the least. So long as you aren't fixated on changing the fundamentals of a class, I guess. To each their own. I have nothing more to add - guess we'll see what happens.
I agree, getting better raids will always be the best solution. However, I dont have any suggestions on how to make such raids and unless the mounted combat turns out to be awesome, I dont think Turbine has any suggestions either.
Last edited by Elrantiri; Jul 03 2012 at 01:49 PM.
Exactly what we're aiming for... and what do you think is the easiest way? Testing all current and future raids if there isn't a timed-event somewhere and replacing it with a morale-trigger (if at all possible) or adjusting (what is it, 4?) burg-debuffs and never having to worry about it again?
Additionally, timer-based events add a bit of variety to raid encounters since unlike morale-based events it matters how fast you do stuff, making DPS a more important element of the raid. Not all timer-based events are 'zergs', and you're essentially suggesting to remove the option entirely, making completely different tactics possible, like 'slowing down' to recover and each raid having x amount of 'waves' happening each time.
Shadow Challenge is a great example of how to do morale-based triggers but still require high DPS. Wound wing in OD was another good example. No waiting out cooldowns like in OD Disease wing (not a morale-based trigger fight, but still one in which phases were entirely within the players' control.)
Originally Posted by azurebob99
Fire and Frost suffers from a different issue (being tested on a spreadsheet, not in-game...if it was tested at all). Before anything else, it would have to be adjusted to be doable...hell give the grims a -10% miss chance aura (or add -miss chance to the mitigation debuff you get for hitting the giants), and the impossibility of the fight for the most part drifts away. It'd still be too hard for the first lock of a raid, but it would be doable. Once it's legitimately beatable, can address stacking DPS to circumvent mechanics by changing the bubble (the main thing being circumvented) to trigger at either 2 minutes or 50% total encounter morale (whichever comes first). The issue is mechanics being circumvented, right? Not a personal crusade against this class or that?
Well, part of the genesis for this thread seems to have come from another thread in which one of the issues was Hunters feeling less useful than Burgs due to various mechanics, so I'd say that it's fair to classify it as at least partly a personal crusade against Burglars.
That aside, zerging one F&F boss for Challenge doesn't really circumvent the bubble: quite often (for us, at least) it pops up at the 45-50s mark, which makes us have to knock out an extra 150k damage in that last 10-15s - which is actually doable, even with "only" 3 Burgs (only one of whom that I know for sure has the Unseen set).
I think that the best change that could happen to make F&F Challenge doable w/o zerging one Giant would be to either lower the morale of the bubble, or give us a clear way to control when the bubbles first appear. All DPS focusing on one 150k bubble is easy; 1/2 DPS on one 150k bubble with the other half on the other 150k bubble proved to be too difficult (at least for us), meaning that pretty much every bubble was a guaranteed +1 rage. Of course, it's too late for changes to Orthanc now, but oh well.
"Sam thinks it a queer place, but I think he likes it, too." - Frodo
"If you're in advertising or marketing, kill yourself." - Bill Hicks
RoI changed a lot. Crit cap was bumped up, indirectly increasing burg dps because most of their damage comes through crit chains.
Quick clarification here about burgs. The crit% increase is largely irrelevant to our crit chains being open or not. In SOA my crit chain was pretty much "always open" and waiting on skill cool-downs in the chain in any fight of any length. So any damage effect to be gained is no more or less than any other class hitting the mob.
And you'd be surprised how balanced our damage is. In a parse, quite a lot will come from non-crit chain "filler" rotation skills like Subtle Stab and auto-attacks.
Tommac-Mini, Shurmann-Cap, Theodolan-Guard, Thromdir-Hnt - Dancing in the Dark
What's the problem?... I'm saying its easily doable with 2.
The problem is people are lazy,...
Originally Posted by YesMaam
From what I can see in the video its a complete cakewalk...
Ironically in my group I only have 2 burgs so I'll have to prove you wrong. Don't really have a choice there. When I kill it I'll post a video up on a new thread. Until then carry on
Congratulations on getting it done, but I guess you didn't find it so "easily doable" or a "cakewalk" with 2 Burglars.
Not sure what your issue is with Yelk, Miretocot, but I find it amusing you dug up a video posted in a completely different progession thread not related to the arguments here. Don't worry, we'll keep you informed on our progress.
Not sure what your issue is with Yelk, Miretocot, but I find it amusing you dug up a video posted in a completely different progession thread not related to the arguments here. Don't worry, we'll keep you informed on our progress.
The issue is that Yelk popped up in this thread, claiming that F&F is easily doable (like a cakewalk) with only 2 Burgs, so there's no issue at all, neither with Burgs nor with the F&F encounter. He also announced to prove us all wrong, since he has no more than 2 Burgs in his group. Apparantly he only proved himself wrong, as you clearly did it with 3 Burgs - guess you had to resort to an external Burg (not part of your original group) just to get the kill. Thanks for making our point then :-)
Not sure what your issue is with Yelk, Miretocot, but I find it amusing you dug up a video posted in a completely different progession thread not related to the arguments here. Don't worry, we'll keep you informed on our progress.
Vodomir answered you better than even I ever could, but are you really that clueless?
Really? There was no connection or relation between Yelk's arrogant, dismissive (he called us all "lazy," among other things) claims here that I excerpted and the video I posted?
LOL.
Last edited by Miretocot; Jul 04 2012 at 06:05 AM.
It seems like people are taking weeks old theorycrafting comments too seriously.
I don't have to defend our first kill, we were short people and had room for dps - one happened to be a burg. Again, we'll be sure to update you all when/if we kill it with less than 3 burgs.
I don't have to defend our first kill, we were short people and had room for dps - one happened to be a burg. Again, we'll be sure to update you all when/if we kill it with less than 3 burgs.
You also need to make sure it's a proper cakewalk in the process.
In all seriousness, nobody attacked your first kill, but the attitude in the posts here.
The point is not that you didn't or didn't beat F&F, it's the fact that Yelk clearly not only lied about beating it with less than 3 burgs, but lied arrogantly as well, insulting others. So, well done, you've already well established the fact that that was bs...
-_-
The point is not that you didn't or didn't beat F&F, it's the fact that Yelk clearly not only lied about beating it with less than 3 burgs, but lied arrogantly as well, insulting others. So, well done, you've already well established the fact that that was bs...
-_-
some of you should step back and take a deep breath, holy &&&&, and you specifically need to go back and reread what youre so vehemently angry about, because none of Shock and Awe said we beat it with less than three burgs.
i dont want to put words in yelks mouth, but knowing him, i highly doubt he meant for you peoplez to take it even half as personally as some of you are.
Shock and Awe
Hydra - Captain. Kraken - Guard. Ra - Warg
and you specifically need to go back and reread what youre so vehemently angry about, because none of Shock and Awe said we beat it with less than three burgs.
...Yup! Reread it!
Originally Posted by YesMaam
Ironically in my group I only have 2 burgs so I'll have to prove you wrong
Um, think twice before you defend something with a misleading "fact"? Just gonna make me chuckle in amusement and dismiss your original argument. Oh and before you accuse people of taking things personally, don't troll them, that usually just leads to more flames
Um, think twice before you defend something with a misleading "fact"? Just gonna make me chuckle in amusement and dismiss your original argument. Oh and before you accuse people of taking things personally, don't troll them, that usually just leads to more flames
i wasn't trolling, although the surety with which you think your comprehension of his post is correct really makes me want to :P
guess who went out of town? me! guess who had to pick up a pug? yelk! guess what class it turned out to be? ill let you finish that sentence....! i apologize on behalf of yelk, my kin, and the great server brandywine for planning a vacation at suh a momentous time in Shock and Awe's existence
seriously dude, its the 4th of july, chill out and grab a beer or smoke a joint or something. there is absolutely zero need to be so touchy.
Shock and Awe
Hydra - Captain. Kraken - Guard. Ra - Warg
So, summary: we are waiting for a evidence of the killing with two burglars.
I'm sure, it's not a problem to do it theoretically. But I'm also confident that no one has done it.
i wasn't trolling, although the surety with which you think your comprehension of his post is correct really makes me want to :P
guess who went out of town? me! guess who had to pick up a pug? yelk! guess what class it turned out to be? ill let you finish that sentence....! i apologize on behalf of yelk, my kin, and the great server brandywine for planning a vacation at suh a momentous time in Shock and Awe's existence
seriously dude, its the 4th of july, chill out and grab a beer or smoke a joint or something. there is absolutely zero need to be so touchy.
First of all, grats to your kin for doing it at all.
I understand that you had to bring in a pug, and ok it was a Burglar. There's not anything to be angry about here.
However, you must admit that from Bonds and Miretocots point of view, it seems quite weird that Yelk is so adamant that the challenge is a "cakewalk" and that it is easily done with 2 Burglars to counter our arguments in this thread, yet, when they actually go and do the challenge, they do it with 3 Burglars, proving nothing.
Lastly, the Giants build rage every 30 seconds and you killed the first giant after 59.something seconds - even with 3 Burglars though some of the raiders were from outside your kinship. Basically you were less than half a second away from failing the challenge at that point of the fight.
With that in mind I wouldn't say Yelk is in a place to call this fight a cakewalk and that it is easily done with 2 Burglars - until he and your kinship proves otherwise of course.
until he and your kinship proves otherwise of course.
Like I've said twice already, we'll be sure to post in the appropriate forums if it happens. Still trying to find where we ever lied about beating it with less than 3 burgs.
Have we proved anything as of yet? No, and no one ever said we did.
First of all, grats to your kin for doing it at all.
I understand that you had to bring in a pug, and ok it was a Burglar. There's not anything to be angry about here.
However, you must admit that from Bonds and Miretocots point of view, it seems quite weird that Yelk is so adamant that the challenge is a "cakewalk" and that it is easily done with 2 Burglars to counter our arguments in this thread, yet, when they actually go and do the challenge, they do it with 3 Burglars, proving nothing.
Lastly, the Giants build rage every 30 seconds and you killed the first giant after 59.something seconds - even with 3 Burglars though some of the raiders were from outside your kinship. Basically you were less than half a second away from failing the challenge at that point of the fight.
With that in mind I wouldn't say Yelk is in a place to call this fight a cakewalk and that it is easily done with 2 Burglars - until he and your kinship proves otherwise of course.
no.... he still would have been incorrect about it - yelk never said we completed it with two. i just had to post,
the dude was flipping out about it as if one of us had jumped out of his monitor and judo chopped his face off. is it as easy as we thought it would be? no, perhaps not. is that what youve been itching for? consider it scratched in absolute terms, im still notconvinced of it relative to a 3 burg t2c. as to the rest, i wasnt there so i wont comment. no idea what the night was like.
Shock and Awe
Hydra - Captain. Kraken - Guard. Ra - Warg
no.... he still would have been incorrect about it - yelk never said we completed it with two. i just had to post,
the dude was flipping out about it as if one of us had jumped out of his monitor and judo chopped his face off. is it as easy as we thought it would be? no, perhaps not. is that what youve been itching for? consider it scratched in absolute terms, im still notconvinced of it relative to a 3 burg t2c. as to the rest, i wasnt there so i wont comment. no idea what the night was like.
Sheesh, I already posted the quote, you'd think referring to it twice would be enough, but I guess not, so here we go again.
Originally Posted by YesMaam
Ironically in my group I only have 2 burgs so I'll have to prove you wrong
I'm just gonna stop pursuing it, no point to anyways. Point is, no one's proved anything about burg stacking not being needed for F&F yet. There.
it seems quite weird that Yelk is so adamant that the challenge is a "cakewalk" and that it is easily done with 2 Burglars to counter our arguments in this thread, yet, when they actually go and do the challenge, they do it with 3 Burglars, proving nothing.
With that in mind I wouldn't say Yelk is in a place to call this fight a cakewalk and that it is easily done with 2 Burglars - until he and your kinship proves otherwise of course.
First I'd just like to say. A) Some of our kin members are getting used to each-others styles as the kin was formed within the last few weeks B) The day we killed F/F was our 3rd night back to raiding in several MONTHS break so we were very rusty. The first night I tried with 2 burgs and we were able to get the first boss dead in the 1 minute mark relatively (Everyone in my raid can vouch for this, we all felt it was possible with 2 burgs we just wanted to get the kill on our server asap and do forum rep later). First night raiding ever as a kin, ever in months and with pugs with 2 burgs.
No this fight isn't a cakewalk. But the fact that we learned and completed it in a several hours of back to raiding with new faces to meet does make a statement. With time, practice and a flawless run I still see absolutely no issue with 2 burgs.
Finally the video I posted of our kill was far from our best DPS run, we had runs were the boss was dead at 45 seconds and we burnt through an entire bubble, so I wouldn't go judging our capability off a movie, that run was simply the one were we won.
Yelk
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
Like I've said twice already, we'll be sure to post in the appropriate forums if it happens. Still trying to find where we ever lied about beating it with less than 3 burgs.
Have we proved anything as of yet? No, and no one ever said we did.
None of you have lied about this, we're not trying to say you lied.
The issue here is that Yelk was imo fairly arrogant in this thread saying he thinks its easily doable with 2 Burglars, which he said to counter some of my arguments in this thread.
He also said he thinks it'll be a cakewalk (which I again think is quite arrogant) and that he will have to do it with 2 Burglars - though you did it with 3(which is ok, it just doesnt support his point), and less than half a second away from failing challenge.
I'm waiting to see you do it with 2 Burglars, and I'm also awaiting his 5 minute 2.6k DPS parse from Shadow T2HM. My record is just below 2.1k DPS for 4 minute 10 second, obviously I have a lot to learn if a hunter can pull off 2.6k DPS in there and I wouldnt mind a lesson or two.
Originally Posted by YesMaam
First I'd just like to say. A) Some of our kin members are getting used to each-others styles as the kin was formed within the last few weeks B) The day we killed F/F was our 3rd night back to raiding in several MONTHS break so we were very rusty. The first night I tried with 2 burgs and we were able to get the first boss dead in the 1 minute mark relatively (Everyone in my raid can vouch for this, we all felt it was possible with 2 burgs we just wanted to get the kill on our server asap and do forum rep later). First night raiding ever as a kin, ever in months and with pugs with 2 burgs.
No this fight isn't a cakewalk. But the fact that we learned and completed it in a several hours of back to raiding with new faces to meet does make a statement. With time, practice and a flawless run I still see absolutely no issue with 2 burgs.
Finally the video I posted of our kill was far from our best DPS run, we had runs were the boss was dead at 45 seconds and we burnt through an entire bubble, so I wouldn't go judging our capability off a movie, that run was simply the one were we won.
Yelk
Fair enough.
Last edited by Elrantiri; Jul 05 2012 at 12:28 AM.
I'm waiting to see you do it with 2 Burglars, and I'm also awaiting his 5 minute 2.6k DPS parse from Shadow T2HM. My record is just below 2.1k DPS for 4 minute 10 second, obviously I have a lot to learn if a hunter can pull off 2.6k DPS in there and I wouldnt mind a lesson or two.
I was shocked when he stated that he can parse 2.6k dps on Shadow T2 CM with killing adds. I may able to reach this when i can stay on boss all the time. But i never parsed over 2,1k with killing that lights. And then he stated F&F T2 CM with 2 burgs would be a walk in the park. I really was thinking about deleting my hunter, but after i saw his 1,5k dps on F&F T2CM and the 59.x sec kill on the giant, the sun begin to shining again.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Hunter - Champion - Guardian * [DE]Morthond * Krieger des Lichts
I was shocked when he stated that he can parse 2.6k dps on Shadow T2 CM with killing adds. I may able to reach this when i can stay on boss all the time. But i never parsed over 2,1k with killing that lights. And then he stated F&F T2 CM with 2 burgs would be a walk in the park. I really was thinking about deleting my hunter, but after i saw his 1,5k dps on F&F T2CM and the 59.x sec kill on the giant, the sun begin to shining again.
Yeah, his claims somehow reminded me of this guy:
Originally Posted by DutchEZmoder
I don't know about the hunters you play with, but i as hunter out-dps every fully geared champ with a 1st ager there is on single targets. Easily. I parsed 2300 DPS on fear T1 yesterday in Endurance stance, when i went to 2340 DPS i got aggro so i had to drop it, killing tentacles etc then back on boss in Endurance and i finished with 2044 DPS. That's with the threat book and endurance stance, unfortunately not precision stance for the extra focus and crit damage.
Who was claiming to be easily doing 2300 DPS against Bukot in endurance with a threat book and with (at that time) worse equipment (as there was no LG bling, no Tier 8 relics, no new crafted relics, no +27 agi LI titles and also no star-lit crystals). And then you suddenly see this:
Notice the DPS and the end of the fight. In this vid he is running precision stance, will for sure have much better gear and stats (as this was recorded way past the Great River release) and I doubt he is using a threat book there. Anyone else thinks something doesn't quite line up here?
So as for Yelk's 2,6k DPS with killing adds and his claims that F&F is a walk in the park with only 2 Burgs ... those claims are woth nothing until we see solid proof. Anyone can make up bold numbers without showing proof to actually back them up.
Notice the DPS and the end of the fight. In this vid he is running precision stance, will for sure have much better gear and stats (as this was recorded way past the Great River release) and I doubt he is using a threat book there. Anyone else thinks something doesn't quite line up here?
...and still managed to get aggro of Bukot with 1,7k DPS between boss and adds.
I was shocked when he stated that he can parse 2.6k dps on Shadow T2 CM with killing adds. I may able to reach this when i can stay on boss all the time. But i never parsed over 2,1k with killing that lights. And then he stated F&F T2 CM with 2 burgs would be a walk in the park. I really was thinking about deleting my hunter, but after i saw his 1,5k dps on F&F T2CM and the 59.x sec kill on the giant, the sun begin to shining again.
My thoughts exactly. Big numbers are only impressive when they are not imaginary.
I was shocked when he stated that he can parse 2.6k dps on Shadow T2 CM with killing adds. I may able to reach this when i can stay on boss all the time. But i never parsed over 2,1k with killing that lights. And then he stated F&F T2 CM with 2 burgs would be a walk in the park. I really was thinking about deleting my hunter, but after i saw his 1,5k dps on F&F T2CM and the 59.x sec kill on the giant, the sun begin to shining again.
Yeah, his credibility is not too far removed from zero.
In my opinion, this only shows that the tank did something wrong at some point...
That for sure ... I run 2k+ DPS in there without pulling Aggro from the tank (at least not in the end, and as I am a Champ it's not as much of an issue as I don't pull the boss away from the melee classes)
Who was claiming to be easily doing 2300 DPS against Bukot in endurance with a threat book and with (at that time) worse equipment (as there was no LG bling, no Tier 8 relics, no new crafted relics, no +27 agi LI titles and also no star-lit crystals). And then you suddenly see this:
Pinalea is on my server, and he probably was telling the truth actually. He does have the most "glass cannon"-like build I have seen on a Hunter, and I believe he was talking about tier 1 Shadow, as they were not doing tier 2 at the time. I remember one of our Hunters--who is ghetto-geared and had just leveled a Hunter as a 5th or so toon--was doing around 1900 on tier 1, so 2300 with more experienced and better-geared Hunter is more than probable.
Pinalea is on my server, and he probably was telling the truth actually. He does have the most "glass cannon"-like build I have seen on a Hunter, and I believe he was talking about tier 1 Shadow, as they were not doing tier 2 at the time. I remember one of our Hunters--who is ghetto-geared and had just leveled a Hunter as a 5th or so toon--was doing around 1900 on tier 1, so 2300 with more experienced and better-geared Hunter is more than probable.
I sent you a PM so we don't take this thread more off-topic than it already is.
So let's get back to the topic: Limit Burglar debuffs to stack only twice and everything should be fine
Who was claiming to be easily doing 2300 DPS against Bukot in endurance with a threat book and with (at that time) worse equipment (as there was no LG bling, no Tier 8 relics, no new crafted relics, no +27 agi LI titles and also no star-lit crystals). And then you suddenly see this:
In his quote he specifically says shadow tier 1 = no adds except roots. Basically it's a matter of having enough RWs and CDs to reach 2300 DPS in endurance stance. As a Hunter you can avoid purple puddles completely during the fight in tier 1. He even says he ended at 2044 DPS in your quote, so I have to say that is a very plausible parse and also far from Yelk's statement of 5 minutes of 2.6k DPS in Shadow T2HM.
Since a screenshot is impossible to prove well over 2.1k dps in Shadow T2C I will post a video of it for you clowns. Lol. I have done it, and I will prove it. Your logic is so, well, illogical. I was leading the F/F run, my thoughts are on command not a perfect DPS rotation. Constant knock backs from the boss, holding back DPS at the start for the guard and focusing on removing corruptions and switching on and off grim all contributes to a low dps parse.
I'd tell you the parse was before crystals as it was several months ago but that would just create more crying that I'm lying. So I wont say anything else until I post the video. We are moving into our second week of raiding and I can't wait to earn more green forum rep bars
Im horrible at keeping things I brag about but here a an old SS to prove that I'm pointing in the right direction. Over 2.1k Shadow T2C, I am the DPS target assist for killing lights, defilers, and roots.
When this screenshot was taking I did not have the following: Great river jewelery. T8 Relics. Gold upgrade cloak or neck. No crystals. Not highest level food, and only 1 agi bracelet to what I have now.
Last edited by YesMaam; Jul 05 2012 at 11:50 AM.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
Since a screenshot is impossible to prove well over 2.1k dps in Shadow T2C I will post a video of it for you clowns. Lol. I have done it, and I will prove it. Your logic is so, well, illogical. I was leading the F/F run, my thoughts are on command not a perfect DPS rotation. Constant knock backs from the boss, holding back DPS at the start for the guard and focusing on removing corruptions and switching on and off grim all contributes to a low dps parse.
I'd tell you the parse was before crystals as it was several months ago but that would just create more crying that I'm lying. So I wont say anything else until I post the video. We are moving into our second week of raiding and I can't wait to earn more green forum rep bars
Im horrible at keeping things I brag about but here a an old SS to prove that I'm pointing in the right direction. Over 2.1k Shadow T2C, I am the DPS target assist for killing lights, defilers, and roots.
When this screenshot was taking I did not have the following: Great river jewelery. T8 Relics. Gold upgrade cloak or neck. No crystals. Not highest level food, and only 1 agi bracelet to what I have now.
At first, doing 2.1k DPS and doing 2.6k DPS is not even in the same league and then you also have two Burgs in that run. Others (incl. Champs) get there with only one Burg.
At first, doing 2.1k DPS and doing 2.6k DPS is not even in the same league and then you also have two Burgs in that run. Others (incl. Champs) get there with only one Burg.
It is in the same league when are under geared. I posted it so you have something to chew on while I make the real deal. Who runs with 1 burg? Lol. Not many people that I know of. Even so the roots, defilers and lights, and ravagers don't have reveal weakness. Now I bet if I post a 2.6k run with 2 burgs it will be "no good".
Last edited by YesMaam; Jul 05 2012 at 12:05 PM.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
At first, doing 2.1k DPS and doing 2.6k DPS is not even in the same league and then you also have two Burgs in that run. Others (incl. Champs) get there with only one Burg.
+3 ranged
3 ranged helps much to a higher dps parse. Cause don't waste that much time on lights and roots. More boss and 2 burgs, makes 2,1k very possible. BUT that's only 80% from his 2.6k parse. And if you get higher every more % is harder to get.
If i compare my 1,8k at F&F with your 1,5k i can't imagine how you would own every hunter that hard at Shadow T2 CM dps wise.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Hunter - Champion - Guardian * [DE]Morthond * Krieger des Lichts
3 ranged helps much to a higher dps parse. Cause don't waste that much time on lights and roots. More boss and 2 burgs, makes 2,1k very possible. BUT that's only 80% from his 2.6k parse. And if you get higher every more % is harder to get.
If i compare my 1,8k at F&F with your 1,5k i can't imagine how you would own every hunter that hard at Shadow T2 CM dps wise.
Post a parse for us to see here showing DPS and number of burgs. Assuming that is, I'm not the only one that has to show evidence.
Last edited by YesMaam; Jul 05 2012 at 12:10 PM.
Yelk ~ DieHard ~ The Warlord - Shock and Awe. You will fear me.
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