1) Not convinced. Unless you have a crystal ball with check the player's sex function you can't make those judgments.
I didn't post here to convince anyone, just provide my opinion while at the same time admitting it wasn't based on a mass of experience. Many people wouldn't have bothered to admit that and would have blindly posted their opinion anyway.
Originally Posted by StarofLs
2) It's somewhat sexist, you are saying that one group is fundamentally different then the other instead of viewing each member of a group as a free individual, with his/her own qualities
It isn't either/or. A group can have certain traits and characteristics that on average they display more than another group and still have free will and individual characteristics unto themselves.
On average men are taller than women. Bringing up an example of a particular woman who is taller than a particular man doesn't alter this.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
I've heard it was best not to reveal gender (if female) in WoW but never in regards to Lotro. In fact I always had the impression that Lotro has a good majority of female players.
I believe it is partly due to the female armor not being lingerie. I love that in Lotro when playing a heavy armor class, my female character really looks as if she is wearing heavy armor. Not only that, the heavy armor is tailored to fit her body attractively, same as the male characters. I hated in WoW when one good armor piece would be a bra top or g-string and it would turn my character into a walking joke. If anyone wants a lower cut neckline or sleeveless wear in Lotro, there are hundreds of cosmetic dresses to choose from. I frequently see many players questing in cosmetic dresses.
I didn't post here to convince anyone, just provide my opinion while at the same time admitting it wasn't based on a mass of experience. Many people wouldn't have bothered to admit that and would have blindly posted their opinion anyway.
It isn't either/or. A group can have certain traits and characteristics that on average they display more than another group and still have free will and individual characteristics unto themselves.
On average men are taller than women. Bringing up an example of a particular woman who is taller than a particular man doesn't alter this.
I know the argument, but I don't think people would appreciate me turning this thread into a battleground.
Try to change women to any ethnic group/race/nationality and a certain uncomfortable angle of this reasoning will become apparent (and I am not talking about the height, but about ascribed mental and behavioural qualities).
If this generalization
a) Made on a small amount of data
b) And the said data is unreliable, because of the nature of the Internet interactions
c) Won’t allow you to make any reliable judgment on the qualities of a person you are interacting with
d) Upset people who have been generalised since the dawn of the times and dismissed as being irrelevant and less important then the other, historically more powerful group
That's kind of stating the obvious. I was merely pointing out that I think females don't get as absorbed into the game as males do. Whether that's just a mental difference or because of real life commitments, or both, I don't know.
I think perhaps your experience with females in the game may be limited, but perhaps what you're noticing is a distinction between single players vs. players with families, and that doesn't just apply to females. But regardless, everyone has RL commitments and distractions.
When you're thinking about absorption in the game, you may want to consider the female who co-runs the CSTM site, the females who played significant leadership roles in running Weatherstock or Ales and Tales, those who lead large kins, and the many veteran female RPers, raid leaders, and PvMP players who post extensively on these forums. They seem pretty absorbed in the game to me.
On the other hand, I have plenty of examples of my male friends doing the following while in raids: watching TV, getting up to change a diaper/let the dog outside/get the laundry out of the dryer/etc., going afk to get food or drink (over and over and over...), and my personal favorite: suddenly starting to snore in Teamspeak
I think being 'absorbed' in the game is a subjective term and one's level of concentration at any given time varies from moment to moment and from person to person, regardless of gender or anything else.
Try to change women to any ethnic group/race/nationality and a certain uncomfortable angle of this reasoning will become apparent (and I am not talking about the height, but about ascribed mental and behavioural qualities).
Will it?
Originally Posted by StarofLs
If this generalization
a) Made on a small amount of data
b) And the said data is unreliable, because of the nature of the Internet interactions
c) Won’t allow you to make any reliable judgment on the qualities of a person you are interacting with
All correct statements if I were to be presenting my theory in some formal, scientific way in a University or such like. But as an opinion on a gaming forum I think I'll be ok.
Originally Posted by StarofLs
d) Upset people who have been generalised since the dawn of the times and dismissed as being irrelevant and less important then the other, historically more powerful group
If what I said in my original post was sufficient to 'upset' some people then I daresay some stereotypes may not be all that far off the mark.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
If what I said in my original post was sufficient to 'upset' some people then I daresay some stereotypes may not be all that far off the mark.
You know, till this remark I had assumed you were just careless, based on this remark I am forced to conclude that you are indeed a sexist. The same kind of generalisation would upset a number of males, but I don’t see people making “oh your personal (or indeed any numbers of personal opinions that do not constitute a majority) opinion proves that the whole group has the x quality”. I don’t like Disco, some people from my field don’t like Disco -> Oh, gee-wiz!, all AI Semantics professionals hate disco.
The idea of some people of the group being upset says nothing about the whole group at all. Unless you want to belive that the stereotypes are true that is.
Last edited by StarofLs; Jun 24 2012 at 11:13 AM.
Reason: Cross ref and pronouns
You know, till this remark I had assumed you were just careless, based on this remark I am forced to conclude that you are indeed a sexist.
Conclude away.
Originally Posted by StarofLs
The same kind of generalisation would upset a number of males, but I don’t see people making “oh your personal (or indeed any numbers of personal opinions that do not constitute a majority) opinion proves that the whole group has the x quality”. I don’t like Disco, some people from my field don’t like Disco -> Oh, gee-wiz!, all AI Semantic professionals hate disco.
The idea of some people of the group being upset says nothing about the whole group at all. Unless you want to belive that they are true that is.
I find it rather strange you think anybody would be upset by me saying I think females don't get as absorbed into the game as males do.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
I find it rather strange you think anybody would be upset by me saying I think females don't get as absorbed into the game as males do.
Different people, different opinions. I generally don't like when people are trying to ascribe certain qualities to an individual, based only on their default hard-wired membership in a group.(meaning the membership that is difficult or impossible to change in a present situation, like general appearance factors, sex, native language, country of origin etc.).
There is a number of people who don’t care about those things. I don’t understand people getting all worked up about their religions, it doesn’t mean that people can’t be upset by people insulting their religious believes.
Different people, different opinions. I generally don't like when people are trying to ascribe certain qualities to an individual, based only on their default hard-wired membership in a group.(meaning the membership that is difficult or impossible to change in a present situation, like general appearance factors, sex, native language, country of origin etc.).
As I said earlier: "A group can have certain traits and characteristics that on average they display more than another group and still have free will and individual characteristics unto themselves."
Originally Posted by StarofLs
There is a number of people who don’t care about those things. I don’t understand people getting all worked up about their religions, it doesn’t mean that people can’t be upset by people insulting their religious believes.
The difference is what I said could not possibly be classed as insulting, it was a completely neutral statement.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
as a girl gamer in LOTRO, I've had more comments on my age then gender. Never once have I encountered any situations because of being female in this game. However, I do get lost easily in game, where irl, I can hop into my car and get anywhere with no issues. The community here is just wonderful, since ftp, it's gotten a little more dicey, but it's still a great place for all to play and be on equal footing as far as gender of the player goes.
"He is surer of finding the way home in a blind night than the cats of Queen Berúthiel."
QOC means Queen of Cats (formerly known as BeruthielQOC)
Well I can't speak for anyone but myself but I don't have a problem with females in lotro or any other game. I like girls. The more the merrier. If I had my way I'd be the only man playing, surrounded by women, elf maidens and hobbit lasses.
No Dwarf maidens? RACIST! Er... Speciesist?
Lets hear some love for the bearded hotties.
My biggest problem with the player content I experience ingame would probably be this. I do find that its used flippantly and in most cases its malice is unintentional. Thats NOT to say I condone it at all... I don't but I try to call people out on it, explaining why its not appropriate. R*** is still trivialised in courts and by governments and law enforcement around the world and doesn't need our help trivialising it more. I was r**ed and the fact that someone just got owned in EM doesn't compare.
Sometimes the effort to chastise players feels futile I'll admit but I have had some really get it much in the way someone described calling their son out for using the word "gay" earlier somewhere. Sometimes it doesn't work so well though, my husband called out someone I had already spoken too and this player accused him that it was my opinion and not my husbands own.
Yeah, exactly. Maybe it's just my server but I hear it a lot, especially with pvp. Females too, in glff will be like, 'you totally r--ed me in the moors!' which just makes it that much more difficult to say something about cause then its like, well she doesn't mind, you're just being stuck up and I don't know how to explain it. Just because one person thinks it's okay doesn't make it so.
One situation that just made me lol was when I got a tell from some newbie that said 'you look beautiful today' I so wanted to reply and just be like 'my pixels look beautiful everyday' but my policy is not to encourage them.
As I said earlier: "A group can have certain traits and characteristics that on average they display more than another group and still have free will and individual characteristics unto themselves."
And then you've said that you don't have enough data. Why would you make a claim about the group if you don't have enough data? I really don't know, unless it supposes to help us to predict player’s behaviour. Since it doesn't I am somewhat at loss, why would anyone post it.
Humans and human language work on generalisations, and people tend to group people. There is a difference between saying something about a group you belong to and the other “alien” group. Even with "yes-yes, they have individual characteristics too" thingy, your are much more likely to judge people of your group based on their personal qualities, while when you speak about some other group, their membership in the group tends to overshadow their individuality (there is a number of studies in intergroup dynamics that support this)
In practise those harmless generalisation lead to different treatment which I think should be based on an individual performance.
Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath
The difference is what I said could not possibly be classed as insulting, it was a completely neutral statement.
The FD definition
1) ab•sorb
-To occupy the full attention, interest, or time of; engross.
Attention implies good performance and commitment, and I am pretty much sure (judging by others responses) that I am not only one to see it this way
You don’t see anything insulting, just like I don’t see anything insulting in talking about, say, comparative religion/history of religion. Some people do find it insulting for some unknown (to me) reason .
Last edited by StarofLs; Jun 24 2012 at 12:04 PM.
Reason: def added
One situation that just made me lol was when I got a tell from some newbie that said 'you look beautiful today' I so wanted to reply and just be like 'my pixels look beautiful everyday' but my policy is not to encourage them.
Heh, true enough. I could never understood that, why won't people try to say it to my dwarven RK
"Just because one person thinks it's not okay doesn't make it so."
On the contrary, I believe everyone should strive to make a welcoming environment and if someone feels uncomfortable in a situation, the situation should change as is reasonable, not the person be made to leave and feel excluded.
So I'm going to ask you nicely to cease posting, since this is a thread about women feeling accepted in the game/gaming community and you really aren't adding anything to the discussion except a lot of negatively and bad stereotypes and propagating the idea that we are not welcome here. Thanks, have a nice day.
So I'm going to ask you nicely to cease posting, since this is a thread about women feeling accepted in the game/gaming community and you really aren't adding anything to the discussion except a lot of negatively and bad stereotypes and propagating the idea that we are not welcome here.
Talk about seeing what you want to see. How on earth can the statement: 'I don't think females get as absorbed into the game as males do' be interpretated as: "a lot of negatively and bad stereotypes and propagating the idea that we are not welcome here"?
I can see nothing which I've posted which could be contrued as 'females aren't welcome here'. Sheeesh.
Originally Posted by Arodion
Thanks, have a nice day.
That advice is a tad redundant as it's 5:30pm here. Maybe 'have a nice week'?
Last edited by Isdring; Jun 25 2012 at 08:11 AM.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
So the people who don't agree with you are either females or <b> enfeebled emasculated </b> males (why won't you say some males instead of using those particular adjectives, I wonder ) that was, unexpected to say the least O_o
If you're expecting me to proof-read my posts a hundred times and make sure I've worded everything perfectly so that no possibility of misinterpretation can take place then I'll have to disappoint. I would like to think the reader would be able to get the gist of what I'm saying without the need for microanalysis, common sense should do the trick.
Originally Posted by StarofLs
As for the consequences of the generalisation, look at the last gent’s posting. And I am quite sure he don’t understand what’s wrong with his statement. It's quite unpleasant to read, and I don't really want to see those things accepted as normal in the community.
So what do you propose? 'Hate-speech' rules introduced into LotRO? Because they're really a shining beacon of hope in the real world...
I'd hope Turbine, as an American company, would allow a bit more freedom than that. Though I suspect this thread will suffer the ever-lurking ban-hammer when devs come back tomorrow, despite the fact that I can't see that it's crossed the line in anyway.
Last edited by Isdring; Jun 25 2012 at 08:13 AM.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
If you're expecting me to proof-read my posts a hundred times and make sure I've worded everything perfectly so that no possibility of misinterpretation can take place then I'll have to disappoint. I would like to think the reader would be able to get the gist of what I'm saying without the need for microanalysis, common sense should do the trick.
Sorry, I read the words and sentences that people write, and can’t say which parts of their posts they find to be the most relevant.
Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath
So what do you propose? 'Hate-speech' rules introduced into LotRO? Because they're really a shining beacon of hope in the real world...
I'd hope Turbine, as an American company, would allow a bit more freedom than that. Though I suspect this thread will suffer the ever-lurking ban-hammer when devs come back tomorrow, despite the fact that I can't see that it's crossed the line in anyway.
No, I am for creating the atmosphere, in which this will be regarded as a trolling attempt. More of "unspoken social rule", less of "we will ban you to Kingdom come". In the present situation in gaming it’s regarded as a norm, unfortunately enough.
Sorry, I read the words and sentences that people write, and can’t say which parts of their posts they find to be the most relevant.
Practise makes perfect.
Originally Posted by StarofLs
No, I am for creating the atmosphere, in which this will be regarded as a trolling attempt. More of "unspoken social rule", less of "we will ban you to Kingdom come". In the present situation in gaming it’s regarded as a norm, unfortunately enough.
Then surely that should tell you something? If it was perceived to be such a terrible thing then I'd imagine it wouldn't be 'regarded as the norm' by the game 'community'. It wouldn't require a vocal minority to try and set up their version of the right 'atmosphere' for the game by shunning those who use the term casually (from what I've seen with completely no ill intent). I'm not a fan of minority sway over majority sentiment.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
Then surely that should tell you something? If it was perceived to be such a terrible thing then I'd imagine it wouldn't be 'regarded as the norm' by the game 'community'. It wouldn't require a vocal minority to try and set up their version of the right 'atmosphere' for the game by shunning those who use the term casually (from what I've seen with completely no ill intent). I'm not a fan of minority sway over majority sentiment.
It took a vocal minority to initiate the civil rights act and women's suffrage. Majority sentiment isn't always right when it involves excluding the minority.
"Some people are offended by using the term casually, others aren't. Solutions? Ignore those who offend you."-beleg
And what was that about seeing what you want to see? I don't want to have to ignore it, I want people to realize how using the term r*pe casually is offensive and sets up a culture in which r*pe is normalized and brushed off. If they have respect for women (their wives, sisters, daughters, friends) they would want to change this culture.
Last edited by Arodion; Jun 24 2012 at 03:31 PM.
Reason: not to bypass filter
Quite interested reading some of the comments on here, I'm another woman gamer (along with my husband, yet another LoTRO couple, I know!) but I've never experienced the gifts and different behaviour that some people seem to have!
Then again I don't tend to advertise (outside Kin and whoever I'm raiding with anyway) my gender. I have known women who really do play on their gender in game (with the whole 'helpless female' persona), and men seem torn between 'that's incredibly annoying' and jumping on their white chargers, so clearly it can work I guess.
LoTRO does seem different to other MMOs though, I also play TERA (which someone mentioned further back, re the Elin race) and the attitudes of people are markedly changed, though as no one has a clue who is behind the character on there, I would put it down more to the demographic that that game draws than anything else.
Xandarien Elanessa, Híril of Pupils of the Istari on Evernight
No, it doesn't really. Coding human semantics in formal logic is a pain, let me tell you .
Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath
Then surely that should tell you something? If it was perceived to be such a terrible thing then I'd imagine it wouldn't be 'regarded as the norm' by the game 'community'. It wouldn't require a vocal minority to try and set up their version of the right 'atmosphere' for the game by shunning those who use the term casually (from what I've seen with completely no ill intent). I'm not a fan of minority sway over majority sentiment.
If I were in a perfect world, I wouldn’t have any reason to complain, because in the perfect world people wouldn’t regard my non-chosen group membership as important. Indeed it’s probable that in this perfect world people don’t use biological sex as a group forming difference, who knows. But, hey we are not there (yet ?) so I am afraid I am forced to resort to writing.
I am not a fan of total disregard of other people wishes and thinking that the right to casually insult people is the sole reason for the Free Speech. Is judging each person individually, irregardless of his/her in-born group that damaging to your sense of freedom?
If I were in a perfect world, I wouldn’t have any reason to complain, because in the perfect world people wouldn’t regard my non-chosen group membership as important. Indeed it’s probable that in this perfect world people don’t use biological sex as a group forming difference, who knows. But, hey we are not there (yet ?) so I am afraid I am forced to resort to writing.
Back on that are we?
Originally Posted by StarofLs
I am not a fun of total disregard of other people wishes and thinking that the right to casually insult people is the sole reason for the Free Speech. Is judging each person individually, irregardless of his/her in-born group that damaging to your sense of freedom?
I've never, as far as I can remember, seen the word ra.pe used in-game with the intent to cause offense or to insult. When the term is used in that manner the offender should of course be reported for abuse.
I've only ever seen the word used for things like 'we ra.ped them' or 'he was ra.ped' in the Ettenmoors, that type of thing. I can understand why it might offend some people when used in this way even though I couldn't care less. That's why the offended should ignore those who use the term too casually.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
Indeed I don't think we will understand each other, to be honest. With your permission, I am closing it now, because the further discussion, with sources and all will lead us to the against the forums policy land.
I've never, as far as I can remember, seen the word ra.pe used in-game with the intent to cause offense or to insult. When the term is used in that manner the offender should of course be reported for abuse.
I've only ever seen the word used for things like 'we ra.ped them' or 'he was ra.ped' in the Ettenmoors, that type of thing. I can understand why it might offend some people when used in this way even though I couldn't care less. That's why the offended should ignore those who use the term too casually.
The problem is, the term should not be used casually. It's incredibly offensive. How do you think it feels to a person who has been r*ped before to see/hear people throwing the word about in a joking manner? It makes no difference if it's a man misusing the term or a woman. There is absolutely nothing funny about r*pe jokes and I will report each and every one I see, because ignoring an issue does not necessarily make it go away.
As to the topic at hand: I've started telling my fellow gamer friends who hate the sexism they encounter in other games to consider supporting/playing LOTRO (and, more importantly, telling Turbine why they're doing so), because it's one of the few character-oriented games out there where sexism is neither rampant nor accepted by the community. Yes, there are some isolated cases, but people here are generally mature enough to handle the fact that (gasp!) women play video games too. Not having female characters running around in skimpy battle lingerie probably helps the game out a lot in that regard, and the devs are to be commended for not giving into the gaming industry norm just to drive up sales.
Last edited by Freawaru; Jun 24 2012 at 02:44 PM.
Reason: Decided that bypassing the profanity filter was probably an unwise decision.
I've never, as far as I can remember, seen the word ra.pe used in-game with the intent to cause offense or to insult. When the term is used in that manner the offender should of course be reported for abuse.
I've only ever seen the word used for things like 'we ra.ped them' or 'he was ra.ped' in the Ettenmoors, that type of thing. I can understand why it might offend some people when used in this way even though I couldn't care less. That's why the offended should ignore those who use the term too casually.
Just because people use the word r*pe without intending offense doesn't mean it shouldn't be challenged. Its what we are doing here afterall challenging opinions. It is how many of our laws and regulation come about; by discussion or debate. /Ignore is exactly that... you ignore it. There isn't this option in real life. The point isn't whether I am offended by the word the point is that we feel it trivialises r*pe. That we feel that use of this word lessens the impact of that word as well as cheapens victims’ experiences; that our concern is that its use perpetuates the idea that our society is okay with r*pe.
I wasn't aware we'd taken that step back through the Wardrobe. As far as I was concerned we were still talking about the game, not real life.
Originally Posted by Maendae
The point isn't whether I am offended by the word the point is that we feel it trivialises r*pe. That we feel that use of this word lessens the impact of that word as well as cheapens victims’ experiences; that our concern is that its use perpetuates the idea that our society is okay with r*pe.
The question is rather - what's your solution? As far as I'm concerned a short explanation saying: 'I find it offensive when you use that word so casually' accompanied by a possible /ignore is about all that can be done in the game. I don't like the sound of some of the other solutions I've heard, vague though they are.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
The question is rather - what's your solution? As far as I'm concerned a short explanation saying: 'I find it offensive when you use that word so casually' accompanied by a possible /ignore is about all that can be done in the game. I don't like the sound of some of the other solutions I've heard, vague though they are.
Well, I think I cover that in the part of my post you went to effort to remove... You challenge such use, you talk to people. Originally I said that I do this and find a lot of people do consider their actions in using the word and what it means once they are challenged. So you pluck up as I have done over a variety of posts here and hope that you get through to someone. You hope that the person isn't somebody who would prefer to go around with a bucket on their head /ignoring every problem they encounter because hopefully it'll go away or get better.
I'm sure if you were confronted by something you didn't agree with, your boss perhaps says hes cutting your wage and putting up your hours, you'd challenge it. Its just an example lets not compare the two things to closely.
As for your concern with either side of the wardrobe door. Yes its a game. No its not real life but when you take away the pretty scenery you have left real people in real life playing this game and their behavior is real. The topic we discuss is a real issue. I am to assume that this is your opinion only in game then? Your opinion alters when you hit "exit game"? Lets be clear so if someone uses the word r*pe in a trivial context ingame you should ignore it and when they use that word out of game then...? Fill me in I'm genuinely interested. Have a returned condescending wink on me
Last edited by Maendae; Jun 24 2012 at 02:46 PM.
Reason: typos. probably more out there :(
Well, I think I cover that in the part of my post you went to effort to remove... You challenge such use, you talk to people. Originally I said that I do this and find a lot of people do consider their actions in using the word and what it means once they are challenged. So you pluck up as I have done over a variety of posts here and hope that you get through to someone. You hope that the person isn't somebody who would prefer to go around with a bucket on their head /ignoring every problem they encounter because hopefully it'll go away or get better.
I'm sure if you were confronted by something you didn't agree with, your boss perhaps says hes cutting your wage and putting up your hours, you'd challenge it. Its just an example lets not compare the two things to closely.
As for your concern with either side of the wardrobe door. Yes its a game. No its not real life but when you take away the pretty scenery you have left real people in real life playing this game and their behavior is real. The topic we discuss is a real issue. I am to assume that this is your opinion only in game then? Your opinion alters when you hit "exit game"? Lets be clear so if someone uses the word r*pe in a trivial context ingame you should ignore it and when they use that word out of game then...? Fill me in I'm genuinely interested. Have a returned condescending wink on me
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Maendae again."
It's clear that we're not getting through to you, Beleg. Your latest response to Arodion (re: the fact that in legal terms, &&&& is considered a lesser offence than murder) reflects a common societal misconception: that &&&& -- and the far too common practice of trivializing the act of &&&& through casual and/or joking references to the act -- is not a heinous thing. Since you disregarded my link to the Huffington Post article, I encourage you to read through the following post written by a gamer and really think about what you've been saying in this thread. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2003437
Honestly I don't think that's true, I think you knew full well how a comment like that would make people feel, and that's why you posted it.
Still don't understand how it can be taken as an insult. 'Female players don't get absorbed into the game as much as males'. I stand by what I said earlier - most of the general public would view this as a good thing, not bad.
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
Honestly I don't think that's true, I think you knew full well how a comment like that would make people feel, and that's why you posted it.
or you have lived an extremely sheltered life with little social interaction with the opposite sex or anybody with a clue for that mater
or maybe you have asperger's syndrome and if that's the case, I am sorry but what you said was not cool
Even short of Asperger's, many people are not skilled in social interactions. They haven't learned how to interpret how other people's speech and other behavior gives a clue to how they are feeling. This can be learned; it can be taught; but some learn more easily than others.
Now, add in the factor that in any kind of online chat, all you get is some bare words, without facial expressions, tones of voice, body language, anything except MAYBE a few emoticons. People who haven't had much practice anyway in considering, "How would you feel if somebody said the equivalent of what you just said to YOU?" now have even fewer clues, and in many cases can't envision the other person's feelings at all.
I fear it's about time to close this thread, which is a pity, because a lot of it has been informative and non-hostile. But it's slipping.
Well it used to be some sort of stigma, but now the ratio of male to female seems almost equal. Which is cool, but there's a good number of people on the internet who are lonely so that leads to some..well interesting encounters. There's also the people who like to make sexist jokes. Like myself, but that's all good and fun.
Generally I don't care which gender you are when you play a game. I treat everyone pretty much equally.
I find it rather strange you think anybody would be upset by me saying I think females don't get as absorbed into the game as males do.
I'm a female gamer and I find this to be a CRASS GENERALISATION. I find such bald statements about women gamers to be offensive as they are nothing but generalisations. There, was that loud enough for you???
I'm a female gamer and I find this to be a CRASS GENERALISATION. I find such things offensive. There, was that loud enough for you???
If you've read the whole thread, or at least the last few dozen posts, you'd realise that I was talking about my own in-game experiences which I admitted is limited in this regard. It was meant to be something taken at face value, believe it or discard it, no odds to me. However I didn't quite anticipate it would begin a revolt of Crusade proportions. Why there is always this hostility when someone mentions anything about female gamers that isn't unequivocally good I don't know. Same on the old EU forums. Seems to be a distinct level of uptightness (this too will probably be taken as a personal attack on females).
"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Rune-Keeper! A Rune-Keeper is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Tolkien's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face."
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Originally Posted by StarofLs
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