Thread: I just HAVE to know..

Originally Posted by djheydt

Even short of Asperger's, many people are not skilled in social interactions. They haven't learned how to interpret how other people's speech and other behavior gives a clue to how they are feeling. This can be learned; it can be taught; but some learn more easily than others.

Now, add in the factor that in any kind of online chat, all you get is some bare words, without facial expressions, tones of voice, body language, anything except MAYBE a few emoticons. People who haven't had much practice anyway in considering, "How would you feel if somebody said the equivalent of what you just said to YOU?" now have even fewer clues, and in many cases can't envision the other person's feelings at all.

I fear it's about time to close this thread, which is a pity, because a lot of it has been informative and non-hostile. But it's slipping.

Nicely put. A lot can indeed get lost in online conversations without the emotional context and lack of anonymity that face-to-face interaction provides, which makes it all the more important to pay extremely close attention to what you write and how you phrase it.

And even though this thread is getting a little hostile now, I think it should remain open. This community generally does not tolerate the more problematic comments that have been made in this thread, and I find it encouraging to see that members are speaking out against these comments rather than letting them slide (as might be the case on some other game's forum). The fact that we can have a reasonable discussion about how LOTRO is -- for the most part -- a positive space for female gamers says a lot for the maturity of our player base and these forums in particular.

You know I am sorry Beleg-Of-Doriath, your right you are entitled to your opinion, no mater how offensive others may find it. I myself have a great many opinions that some/most would find offensive, however I choose not to espouse those opinions, unless I am in fact trying to offend

I can concede, that you did not know your opinion on women in this game would be offensive, but when informed that some were offended instead of just apologizing and walking away, you try and defend your opinions with some more offensive statements and why would an opinion that was drawn from as you say, so little experience be something you even felt needed to be defended ?

so if your goal was not to offend or derail an otherwise mature (with the few exception) conversation we were having before you interjected your opinion then move on and responded when you have something constructive to say

if not I can only conclude that you are in fact a flaming troll, but then again what do you care what I think , Its just a gaming forum right?

Originally Posted by techknowrat

I can concede, that you did not know your opinion on women in this game would be offensive, but when informed that some were offended instead of just apologizing and walking away, you try and defend your opinions with some more offensive statements and why would an opinion that was drawn from as you say, so little experience be something you even felt needed to be defended ?

I can't see how I've said anything offensive in this thread. If someone simply choosing to find offense at something is sufficient to deem it so then everything ever said on the internet could be classed as such. There has to be substance to the claim of being offended. You can't just point at something and say 'I'm offended'. My original statement was completely neutral and I stand by that.

Originally Posted by techknowrat

so if your goal was not to offend or derail an otherwise mature (with the few exception) conversation we were having before you interjected your opinion then move on and responded when you have something constructive to say

My original goal was to simply provide my in-game experiences which I felt had a connexion to the thread. As soon as I did so I was bombarded by interrogators revving up their righteous inclinations and seeking to portray me as a bigot (which I couldn't care less about, though I still felt it warranted further explanation). My goal since then has been to try and restore perspective to those that had seemed to abandon it.

Originally Posted by techknowrat

if not I can only conclude that you are in fact a flaming troll...

I'm guessing you haven't much experience with forum trolls. They tend not to go to the bother I have in this thread, nor do they construct posts like mine by and large.

Originally Posted by techknowrat

...but then again what do you care what I think , Its just a gaming forum right?

Last time I checked.

Don't worry, I'll bow out of this topic now. Seems I've unwittingly prodded a wasp nest in this thread. Unless I'm called back by popular demand. (will probably be closed tomorrow anyway).

Originally Posted by Beleg-Of-Doriath

If you've read the whole thread, or at least the last few dozen posts, you'd realise that I was talking about my own in-game experiences which I admitted is limited in this regard. It was meant to be something taken at face value, believe it or discard it, no odds to me. However I didn't quite anticipate it would begin a revolt of Crusade proportions. Why there is always this hostility when someone mentions anything about female gamers that isn't unequivocally good I don't know. Same on the old EU forums. Seems to be a distinct level of uptightness (this too will probably be taken as a personal attack on females).

Yes I read the whole thread. It's been full of mature, informed discussion on the whole. Discussion that I find very welcome. You're being melodramatic here, you posted an unfounded opinion and have tried to defend it fruitlessly and have actually deepened the possibility of anyone taking offence in so doing. That's it really...

Originally Posted by Redamber

Yes I read the whole thread. It's been full of mature, informed discussion on the whole. Discussion that I find very welcome. You're being melodramatic here, you posted an unfounded opinion and have tried to defend it fruitlessly and have actually deepened the possibility of anyone taking offence in so doing. That's it really...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Redamber again.
I owe you a +1

and I apologize if I added to any of the drama, I really got in touch with my inner troll there for a sec

Originally Posted by Freawaru

Nicely put. A lot can indeed get lost in online conversations without the emotional context and lack of anonymity that face-to-face interaction provides, which makes it all the more important to pay extremely close attention to what you write and how you phrase it.

And even though this thread is getting a little hostile now, I think it should remain open. This community generally does not tolerate the more problematic comments that have been made in this thread, and I find it encouraging to see that members are speaking out against these comments rather than letting them slide (as might be the case on some other game's forum). The fact that we can have a reasonable discussion about how LOTRO is -- for the most part -- a positive space for female gamers says a lot for the maturity of our player base and these forums in particular.

Nicely put (+rep). I've stayed out of the thread for a few pages, to avoid fanning any flames, but the vast majority of the discussion has been a very interesting discussion of the experience of being a female gamer in LOTRO, and I think that should continue.

These types of topics inevitably lead to some drama, because people have very firm beliefs about things and it's human nature to always want to be right. But in general, we are debating passionately but in a civilised manner, so I would hope that the thread can stay open. Let's continue to share our experiences and concerns, and support each other in maintaining the welcoming community that we all want to have.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Whart again.

Even the more heated discussion was fascinating to read. Not necessarily Beleg-of-Doriath's posts, which were more of the same old and tired arguments, but the rebuttals were amazing, eloquent, mature despite the obvious baiting, and should instantly all receive +rep. Please keep this thread open.

Carry on being awesome, ladies and gents. This female gamer is going to be less devoted to the game (and forums) now, for reasons that start and end on zzzzzz.

Originally Posted by EllisIstarnie

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Whart again.

Even the more heated discussion was fascinating to read. Not necessarily Beleg-of-Doriath's posts, which were more of the same old and tired arguments, but the rebuttals were amazing, eloquent, mature despite the obvious baiting, and should instantly all receive +rep. Please keep this thread open.

Carry on being awesome, ladies and gents. This female gamer is going to be less devoted to the game (and forums) now, for reasons that start and end on zzzzzz.

Sweet dreams, learned lady. May you dream in Quenya.

Originally Posted by Lambs

I play with my girlfriend. I am almost always the leader because she hates searching for a group and having to explain tactics. She may only say one or two things during the whole raid but without fail when thursday rolls around people start IMing her asking if we are going to do a raid. When they find out she is a girl they add her to their friend list. I don't get the same IMs asking if I am going to run the raids, even though I am the one who lead them.

She even gets stuff just because she is a girl. Several times people have rolled on an item and then said they will give it to her. If she ever asks for something to be made or food or potions people go out of their way to help her. I once made a comment that we were grinding Grand Stairs for rep. After we left the instance she got mail with a bunch of rep items and the guy saying he hopes this helps. She didn't mention that she was grinding the rep, I did, but she got the rep items.

Being a girl has its advantages. Use them wisely.

I used to play Lotro with my boyfriend but I had to put my foot down and go strictly solo as he would become a major jerk in-game towards me. I am passive, laid-back and just love to have fun while still being serious enough to reach goals and keep everything up to par. The BF, however, would get awful moody and snappy when I did not know where to go, what to do or I did not read/understand quest info as swiftly as he could. It reached a point where he shot my nerves out so badly that I wondered "why am I with such an ***hole"? If I fall off a cliff, if I get pounded by a mob, if it takes me twenty minutes to find a quest item I still have fun, laugh and treat the game as an opportunity to enjoy myself (whereas life outside this game can be depressing and stressful). I never group up with anyone because the Bf made me feel like I was too slow, too stupid and too inept to be of any use to others but it is always nice to read that other guys play with their female companions and have a great time doing it. My partner is just too uptight and serious .. to a frustrating degree

Originally Posted by oldrat

I used to play Lotro with my boyfriend but I had to put my foot down and go strictly solo as he would become a major jerk in-game towards me. I am passive, laid-back and just love to have fun while still being serious enough to reach goals and keep everything up to par. The BF, however, would get awful moody and snappy when I did not know where to go, what to do or I did not read/understand quest info as swiftly as he could. It reached a point where he shot my nerves out so badly that I wondered "why am I with such an ***hole"? If I fall off a cliff, if I get pounded by a mob, if it takes me twenty minutes to find a quest item I still have fun, laugh and treat the game as an opportunity to enjoy myself (whereas life outside this game can be depressing and stressful). I never group up with anyone because the Bf made me feel like I was too slow, too stupid and too inept to be of any use to others but it is always nice to read that other guys play with their female companions and have a great time doing it. My partner is just too uptight and serious .. to a frustrating degree

Aww this made me sad

Of me and my husband its usually me who organises the play and drags us about leveling but I hope I do it nicely. Unlikely, but if you're on Gilrain give me a shout I've alts of all level and I've a nice bunch of folk who could show you how much fun grouping can be

-Elodil, Shards of Narsil, Gilrain and also these guys: Elodaer/Elodii/Maendae/Samtank/Elodin/Elodae (i have to have all the crafts lol)

Originally Posted by oldrat

I used to play Lotro with my boyfriend but I had to put my foot down and go strictly solo as he would become a major jerk in-game towards me. I am passive, laid-back and just love to have fun while still being serious enough to reach goals and keep everything up to par. The BF, however, would get awful moody and snappy when I did not know where to go, what to do or I did not read/understand quest info as swiftly as he could. It reached a point where he shot my nerves out so badly that I wondered "why am I with such an ***hole"? If I fall off a cliff, if I get pounded by a mob, if it takes me twenty minutes to find a quest item I still have fun, laugh and treat the game as an opportunity to enjoy myself (whereas life outside this game can be depressing and stressful). I never group up with anyone because the Bf made me feel like I was too slow, too stupid and too inept to be of any use to others but it is always nice to read that other guys play with their female companions and have a great time doing it. My partner is just too uptight and serious .. to a frustrating degree

First of all, nice to see the thread moving along still, and in a new direction even!

I play with my sweetie as well, and while he's wonderful, playing as a couple does have its challenges! I'm the more easily frustrated one in a raiding situation; he's a bit more laid back and willing to experiment, and he doesn't get quite as crazy as I do when people don't do what they're supposed to. That's why he's my favorite raid leader But there are plenty of times when we go on our own adventures so that we don't drive each other crazy--I think that's important.

But the main point here is that everyone is diferent and takes a different approach to the game, and your approach is NOT wrong! This game is specifically designed to allow people to take their time and enjoy the journey; in fact, that is what keeps their paying customers around so long. Quest text follows (usually) good storylines and is meant to be read and enjoyed. The landscape is there for us to explore. And there is even a title for those of us who fall off cliffs! Just because some people enjoy racing through (and that's a valid play style too), doesn't mean we all have to.

So get out there, find some friends who share your playstyle (I guarantee there are lots), and have fun!

Thank you for adhering to the community guidelines when posting in the forums.

Kind regards,

Isdring

Originally Posted by Arodion

It took a vocal minority to initiate the civil rights act and women's suffrage. Majority sentiment isn't always right when it involves excluding the minority.

"Some people are offended by using the term casually, others aren't. Solutions? Ignore those who offend you."-beleg

And what was that about seeing what you want to see? I don't want to have to ignore it, I want people to realize how using the term r*pe casually is offensive and sets up a culture in which r*pe is normalized and brushed off. If they have respect for women (their wives, sisters, daughters, friends) they would want to change this culture.

Absolutely agree with this.

Originally Posted by Maendae

Aww this made me sad

Of me and my husband its usually me who organises the play and drags us about leveling but I hope I do it nicely. Unlikely, but if you're on Gilrain give me a shout I've alts of all level and I've a nice bunch of folk who could show you how much fun grouping can be

-Elodil, Shards of Narsil, Gilrain and also these guys: Elodaer/Elodii/Maendae/Samtank/Elodin/Elodae (i have to have all the crafts lol)

I have noticed some of my guy friends, when grouping with their gfs will turn extremely rude. Idk why, we're all low 20s for age so maybe it's just trying to show off and immaturity, but it is a bit frustrating even for by-standers because they're extremely nice and respectful otherwise. I'm glad you worked it out though oldrat.

I play on ridder mainly but just rolled on Elendilmir so if anyone knows a good, mature kin, let me know.

Originally Posted by Arodion

I have noticed some of my guy friends, when grouping with their gfs will turn extremely rude. Idk why, we're all low 20s for age so maybe it's just trying to show off and immaturity, but it is a bit frustrating even for by-standers because they're extremely nice and respectful otherwise. I'm glad you worked it out though oldrat.

I play on ridder mainly but just rolled on Elendilmir so if anyone knows a good, mature kin, let me know.

See, that is just dopey. If I was running with my GF and she got me killed 20 times, I would say, that's ok honey, we'll do better next time Well truthfully, she may have gotten me killed once or twice in the beginning, (and I probably have done the same a few times!). Unless they actually DO NOT want them to play, there is no reason to be rude.

Originally Posted by Arodion

I have noticed some of my guy friends, when grouping with their gfs will turn extremely rude. Idk why, we're all low 20s for age so maybe it's just trying to show off and immaturity, but it is a bit frustrating even for by-standers because they're extremely nice and respectful otherwise. I'm glad you worked it out though oldrat.

I play on ridder mainly but just rolled on Elendilmir so if anyone knows a good, mature kin, let me know.

some young men are like that for some reason, even in real life. my daughters tell me stories all the time about their boyfriends acting like jerks around their friends. I don't know why, maybe they think their kindness would be mistaken for weakness

Originally Posted by techknowrat

some young men are like that for some reason, even in real life. my daughters tell me stories all the time about their boyfriends acting like jerks around their friends. I don't know why, maybe they think their kindness would be mistaken for weakness

They are doing a very old (older than humanity) male social primate thing. Right now they are young and have no status in particular. It's the elders who have the status. Someday they want to be able to challenge the elders and acquire status themselves; in the meantime they are (a) practicing on each other and (b) establishing the pecking order in their own generation.

I understand that among chimpanzees and their cousins, even if a male has succeeded in beating up the alpha male and taking his place in the hierarchy, he still has to win the approval of the senior females.

Maybe your daughters, though they are by definition not senior females yet, could occasionally say, "You guys are acting like jerks; tone it down or I'm going home"?

Originally Posted by Scarletstarr

I remember ages ago someone advising me that I should never tell LOTRO players that I'm female as I will shock and be shunned by the (apparently mostly) male community! I know it's way out there now, but I would love to hear peoples thoughts on this! I've never been shunned or shocked anyone by admitting my gender in game or on the forums, and it has become something of a humourous and unrealistic cliche to believe that girls shouldn't be gamers!

Does anyone actually really stand by this? xD

This was true once upon a time. I started online gaming in 1999 (EQ) and it never occurred to me that the population gaming wasn't even, until my first pug...

Happily, I've never had a problem since, and most gamers don't take much notice of a female voice in vent or xfire, other than it sometimes being more easy to pick out of a crowd.

My BF2 clan of 100+ gamers only has a few females, but we hold our own, and the guys are very supportive and just roll with it. In LOTRO, the voice-chat is tough to alter, and thus far no one's been anything other than pleasant in a group.

Originally Posted by oldrat

I used to play Lotro with my boyfriend but I had to put my foot down and go strictly solo as he would become a major jerk in-game towards me. ...

I never group up with anyone because the Bf made me feel like I was too slow, too stupid and too inept to be of any use to others but it is always nice to read that other guys play with their female companions and have a great time doing it. My partner is just too uptight and serious .. to a frustrating degree

As someone else has said... if you are ever on Gilrain, shout if you looking to change your phobia on grouping up! I've made it a habit in my kin to look after newbies doing low-level stuff so they get as much fun out of the game as I have had so far with the people I've had the pleasure of playing alongside

I know that I'm really lucky as my dh (darling husband) is an inveterate gamer too - born of tabletop gaming, same as me. He's great fun to play in group with, not an in-game jerk at all. He's also very tolerant of having a wife who enjoys everything in this game from the 'fluff' to endgame raiding, even when that means I'm being antisocial and not chatting to him while playing in the same room as him lol

Red

Originally Posted by oldrat

I used to play Lotro with my boyfriend but I had to put my foot down and go strictly solo as he would become a major jerk in-game towards me.

Oldrat, I'm going to stick my neck out here. What you need is not so much a new playstyle, as a new boyfriend. (Unless you've already done that.) Such behavior is abusive and you should not put up with it, either in-game or in real life.

Have we really gone to the point of deletion of comments? Re: bastardoGrande taking offense at the evolutionary behavioural explanation upthread, which I commented on. I'm sorry if I insulted someone so badly they felt it needed reporting - that was not my intention at all, and it would be awesome if we could continue our discussion civilly here.

My apologies for the slight off-topic.

Everyone knows the ladies don't play MMOs.

*duck and cover*






pretty sure only the ladies would bother with trying to read this text, too.

Originally Posted by TheStormKing

Everyone knows the ladies don't play MMOs.

*duck and cover*






pretty sure only the ladies would bother with trying to read this text, too.

LOL TSK, thanks for lightening the mood a little.

Oh, and as always: /reported

I read through a portion of the arguments being held above before deciding that I'd rather not get involved.

OP, I'm a girl! I don't walk around advertising my gender, but people have asked before. There's often an element of surprise upon finding out I'm actually female (all of my characters are female for a reason!). A couple of people have decided to follow me around and be my new best friend, but it's only happened twice, I just blocked them and they went away. My kin knows I'm female and we've never even discussed it, so it's no issue.

To be fair, I'm always mildly surprised when I meet other females in-game, just because trial and error has taught me that most of the female characters are guys irl. So I guess I've adopted the same "assume it's a guy until you know otherwise" principle that has confused me in the past.

I always get thrown off with dwarves, though. I was friendly and chatted regularly with a dwarf character (I assumed it was male based on the clothing and the name, though that's...you know, a bit confusing in itself) for a few months before I found out that the player was female. It was odd.

Originally Posted by oldrat

I used to play Lotro with my boyfriend but I had to put my foot down and go strictly solo as he would become a major jerk in-game towards me. I am passive, laid-back and just love to have fun while still being serious enough to reach goals and keep everything up to par. The BF, however, would get awful moody and snappy when I did not know where to go, what to do or I did not read/understand quest info as swiftly as he could. It reached a point where he shot my nerves out so badly that I wondered "why am I with such an ***hole"? If I fall off a cliff, if I get pounded by a mob, if it takes me twenty minutes to find a quest item I still have fun, laugh and treat the game as an opportunity to enjoy myself (whereas life outside this game can be depressing and stressful). I never group up with anyone because the Bf made me feel like I was too slow, too stupid and too inept to be of any use to others but it is always nice to read that other guys play with their female companions and have a great time doing it. My partner is just too uptight and serious .. to a frustrating degree

I had the same experience with a a kin I was in that had a female kin leader. Aside from the fact that she was my kin leader everything you said in this post matched my experience word from word. Ever since then I don't group or raid because of the horrific treatment I received. And I'm a guy receiving this from a girl.


Off topic question for you girls. Why do you insist on dragging us guys to see a chick flick? My wife drives me nuts with that. Just picture Nymphonic checking his watch every 30 seconds.

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

I had the same experience with a a kin I was in that had a female kin leader. Aside from the fact that she was my kin leader everything you said in this post matched my experience word from word. Ever since then I don't group or raid because of the horrific treatment I received. And I'm a guy receiving this from a girl.


Off topic question for you girls. Why do you insist on dragging us guys to see a chick flick? My wife drives me nuts with that. Just picture Nymphonic checking his watch every 30 seconds.

Despite being a dedicated Zerg player, I don't posess a Hive mind, why woudn't you ask your wife about that ?

Originally Posted by StarofLs

Despite being a dedicated Zerg player, I don't posess a Hive mind, why woudn't you ask your wife about that ?

Hehehehehe

Yeah, sorry I can't help either I'm not into these so called chick flicks but then I'm probably playing lotro

Originally Posted by Nymphonic

Off topic question for you girls. Why do you insist on dragging us guys to see a chick flick? My wife drives me nuts with that. Just picture Nymphonic checking his watch every 30 seconds.

Sorry Nymphonic--I hate chick flicks so I'm of no help

it should be noted that Beleg had similar issues on the old EU forums, sometimes a step back and a look in a mirror does wonders.

Been reading this thread for a few days, but thought I'd finally post my own impressions.

I've always been exceedingly wary about revealing my gender in a game. I've had bad experiences with men in real life, and the horror stories of how women are treated in games have left me wanting to hide behind male avatars so I can still enjoy my hobby without fear.

Lotro however I've found generally is welcoming and understanding though I have had to leave a kin because the conversations held made me uncomfortable (I'll be the first to admit I am over-sensitive about certain topics).

I tested the waters of Lotro with a dwarf, though I also love dwarves so I wasn't deliberately choosing that race because of the gender ambiguity. In fact it didn't even occur to me to notice there wasn't a female option. Only once I decided the game was 'safe' for me did I make a woman. Now with 13 characters, I have 3 dwarves, 4 female characters and the rest male (I actually bond better with a male character since somehow I find it easier to give them a 'personality').

I've had the occasional random kiss emote while playing as a female character, which does make me feel a little weird (again I'm sure I'm being over-sensitive), but I try to play along and reassure myself that the person blowing the kiss has no reason to know I'm actually a woman, and for all I know the other player could be a woman herself.

The worst I've had in game was after someone asked while I was playing a female character if I was actually a woman, his immediate next question was 'am I single?', which to me seemed inappropriate (is that over-sensitivity again?).

Honestly I have no idea if those in the kins I'm in realise whether I'm male or female. I don't specify unless asked, and rarely does anyone ask. Instead I just get on with playing the game.

Originally Posted by Flyulf

The worst I've had in game was after someone asked while I was playing a female character if I was actually a woman, his immediate next question was 'am I single?', which to me seemed inappropriate (is that over-sensitivity again?).

No you're not being over-sensitive if someone's making you feel uncomfortable. It's a game, it should be fun.

Ask them to please not, or like you did, move on and find a new kin that fits with what you enjoy. That's why I'm hesitant joining a new kin after my old one disbanded (*shakes fist at SWTOR*) I get so frustrated and tired of the same sexist, racist, homophobic remarks.

I don't respond to random people asking me 'are you female'? Only kin mates and people I group with often, and its certainly not that person's business if you're single or not.

Originally Posted by bastardoGrande

But I can only say to all the women. Just imagine a world without men. Noone who judges you by your looks. Noone who tells you the only way of getting selfestime is being attractive and liked by man. Just think of such place and what you would do there as a true women. Not a toy for men.

A world without men would be horrible and terrible to live in (speaking as a woman). Women tend to judge each other much harsher than men judge women, especially when it comes to looks, clothes, jobs, behaviour and what not.

Just think about it. Every woman who've asked their partner about how what they're wearing looks like, can tell that the male partner usually says "You look nice/beautiful/good". But it's the sisters who find all the faults and bring up all the flaws

There's is a general consensus (studies etc) that women dress up to impress women, and only sometimes dress up to impress guys. We can get a guy interested in us pretty much no matter what we do. But to receive the approval of fellow women, now that's another story.

Originally Posted by StarryP

A world without men would be horrible and terrible to live in (speaking as a woman). Women tend to judge each other much harsher than men judge women, especially when it comes to looks, clothes, jobs, behaviour and what not.

Just think about it. Every woman who've asked their partner about how what they're wearing looks like, can tell that the male partner usually says "You look nice/beautiful/good". But it's the sisters who find all the faults and bring up all the flaws

There's is a general consensus (studies etc) that women dress up to impress women, and only sometimes dress up to impress guys. We can get a guy interested in us pretty much no matter what we do. But to receive the approval of fellow women, now that's another story.

I never looked at it from that point of view. My adult daughter tells me that there is a "girl code" of behaviour, especially when it comes to guys.

We guys are simple. All we need is a couch, drink, snack. remote control for the TV and we're good for a few hours.

I've been watching this thread for a few days now. The ups and downs have been interesting, to say the least. Glad the chat is still flowing with positive stories.

Though my se.x is female, up until LoTRO I've pretty much played mainly male toons in other MMOs and video games. Why? Because I just like them better. Armor looks proper (bulkier), and bad-&&&&. They shout guttural while female characters tend to 'whine' instead. Interestingly, In LoTRO I have more female toons now due to how they look, and also because I have a Neirie on pretty much every server for RP visiting reasons - though from a RP perspective it's just one character. :S So I've something like 35 female, 15 male characters here.

(Don't worry, I've a real life! I'm a casual player - I just hop on one or another for roleplay events if I can attend.)

I'd say I've always been very much a tomboy since childhood but with the occasional flipside of being a modest lady with matching apparel. It's a coin toss daily of my style of dress. Hehe. Usually my outfit reflects my crafting role for the moment as I'm very prone to going deep into random artistic adventures; so one day I may be in rough clothing with paint or clay splatters while the other day I may be in a light dress weaving with sprang and knits. That said, some days I'm sloppy, other days I'm a clean freak - neither one I attribute to any specific gender.

Like another person noted above, I too would consider myself sensitive to touchy topics. I grew up in a place where people were crude, rude, racist and so on. Now that I'm older, and able to defend myself and others, there's no way I tolerate or overlook that stuff anymore. If I can report, I do. If I can teach someone a better, kinder way to say their feelings, I'll try. I think everyone deserves a chance at a different outlook so I try to approach things that way.

As for sexual harassment in game: I've had it, both genders, but never really a problem. Sometimes I troll the harasser back to the point where he's confused and just gives up. In one case I had a guy /tell my female toon in LoTRO saying how pretty she was, and if I looked like her IRL. I figured I'd have fun with it so I implied I was a guy. He wasn't convinced so I described myself in detail - right down to the neckbeard (but in real life I don't look like that at all, haha). I figured the mental image of that was enough to convince him it wasn't worth it to ask more questions. He didn't whisper me back again.

I'll also add that I've blown /kisses to random females before when roleplaying a guy character, just because my specific character IS a bit of a jerk. I do keep it to a minimum with strangers. I also I don't do that stuff if I think someone would be uncomfortable, busy, afk or if they do not appear to be roleplaying. On the flip side, when someone drive-by buffs me or does something oocly silly my way and I'm on a female toon, I tend to blow a kiss to them and walk off with no issue.

Just my personal experience. Hopefully it gives someone a diff perspective.

Cheers^^

I don't care about gender. I'm here to have fun and willing to team up with anyone who's will to play with a crusty old dwarf.

Honestly, I assume everything out there is a guy until I hear otherwise on in-game voice or vent...

Even then, does it matter? A good player is a good player. A bad player is a bad player... Regardless of if they have been using a joystick since they were in diapers or not...

Originally Posted by Eirien

Though my se.x is female, up until LoTRO I've pretty much played mainly male toons in other MMOs and video games. Why? Because I just like them better. Armor looks proper (bulkier), and bad-&&&&.

That's kinda like me playing mostly female characters even though I'm a guy. I've always liked heroines, like the Honor Harrington series(I got tired of her damn treecat though). For reasons that have nothing to do with hanky panky or being dirty, I like female characters for the cosmetic appearances. For example, I hate the huge muscle bound dudes in World of Warcraft.

There is so much going on these days concerning gender it reminds me a bit of the sexual revolution of the late 1960s/early 1970, though a bit more relative to actual every day issues:

Can women save the economy?

Makes me wonder: Can women save LOTRO?

LOTRO has always been quite a bit more receptive in its acceptance of women players that many other MMOs. I can't believe that Turbine isn't still proud of this reputation. In the past they have encouraged it.

There are so many currently unfavorable aspects of the game that women seem to be taking a leading role in mitigating. For example, the griefing, stalking, and general poor conduct of some players toward others that is the bane of any MMO and can be (and usually is) applied to either gender or any sexual proclivity.

It just seems to me that women, in general (at least here in LOTRO), seem to be a bit more proactive when it comes to these problems.

My perception could be totally wrong about this. Any thoughts?

I never heard of "shunning" a female player in an MMO. Quite the opposite seems to happen in many games. A female player attracts a following sometimes. This game is much better than most because we do have a sizeable number of female players (and in general a large fraction of non-gamers as well).

For instance in WoW I would have this guy, clearly a young teen boy, follow my undead female character around. Never hitting on her but he did seem smitten. I said "maybe I'm a grandma in real life" and he answered "no I don't think so". Later I gave a female warrior a scowling face, just because that seemed right for a warrior. One player (who knew I was male) said "why'd you make her so ugly?", such a stupid comment to make.

I first noticed this sort of thing way back in text MUDs (first online RPG games). I was running one so I created a few normal characters just to help test the game or to be incognito. One was female, but being a text game the only indicator of this was a female name, I did not include any biography description. But that character from the very first day started getting gifts; people would run up and hand me high quality weapons or lots of gold! This never happened to any other characters, and this female character was not doing anything special except standing in the main square or answering questions in chat. We also had a significant number of real-life females in the game so it wasn't that females characters were rare.

Later on when I first tried an MMO the same sort of thing happened with a female character. Lots of invites to groups or guilds, gifts were given, etc. Male characters were mostly ignored until getting a few levels. But by this time there was starting to be a stereotype that a lot of female characters were males actively trying to acquire more help in the game this way.

Some other games though none of this happened at all! Different games definitely have different attitudes and cultures. Even different servers in the same game (playing one char on a different server now and it really does feel very foreign).

Originally Posted by djheydt

On the gender of the character. The gender of the player is a secret between him/her and whoever s/he chooses to tell about it, which could be nobody.

When I first started here I didn't tell anyone anything about me in real life, not even my gender. But after a few months my kinship started referring to my characters as "he" all the time and I'd have to remind them to use the right pronoun (it was light RP so a small attempt to stay in character wasn't looked down on). I was sure I hadn't given any slip ups, and I wasn't more aggressive or take-charage than females in the kin I thought, hadn't used voice chat. Half of my characters were female, half were male. Not sure how they figured out I was male in real life, except maybe that I wasn't joining into the social circles talking about real-life stuff.