Thread: ROR should be free

$20 was what I paid to pre-order Siege of Mirkwood. Considering the game was not F2P back then (i.e. two thirds of the expansion was not available to those who didn't purchase it), that $20 got me much more than what Riders of Rohan apparently will for $40.

In my eyes the base RoR expansion is not worth more than $20. Quest pack, extra mounted combat trait line, instance cluster that will arrive later. Pretty much everything else that is being advertised in the Riders of Rohan website is free to all players. Add the 1000 TP bonus for the pre-order and that could perhaps justify $30.

But $40? If they were going to send me a physical boxed copy.

Obviously, demanding it to be free is hilarious. But has anyone figured out why the base expansion pre-order deserves the $40 price tag?

Originally Posted by MoonwalkIntoMordor

$20 was what I paid to pre-order Siege of Mirkwood. Considering the game was not F2P back then (i.e. two thirds of the expansion was not available to those who didn't purchase it), that $20 got me much more than what Riders of Rohan apparently will for $40.

In my eyes the base RoR expansion is not worth more than $20. Quest pack, extra mounted combat trait line, instance cluster that will arrive later. Pretty much everything else that is being advertised in the Riders of Rohan website is free to all players. Add the 1000 TP bonus for the pre-order and that could perhaps justify $30.

But $40? If they were going to send me a physical boxed copy.

Obviously, demanding it to be free is hilarious. But has anyone figured out why the base expansion pre-order deserves the $40 price tag?

How about x2 the level increase over Mirkwood and easily x2 the content plus a landscape you could fit 3 or 4 Mirkwood's in. What the heck do you expect ... ? People did not complain this much with Moria when technically you are getting the same if not more.

Moria - Large Map - 10 levels - LI System - 30-40$ Release Price Point
Mirkwood - Small Map - 5 levels - Skirmish System - 20$ Purchase
RoI - Small/Medium Map - 10 levels - No New System - 30$ Purchase (Not Adding Fluff Packages)
RoR - Large Map - 10 levels - Mounted Combat - 40$ Purchase (Not Adding Fluff Packages)

All the above include instances with purchase, 3/6/Raid and Skirmishes (sans Moria until V2 revision).

Only diff. is Moria got 2 classes. Least Turbine knows that LOTRO DOES NOT need more classes. Balance had a wrench tossed into it with Moria and more classes would only overlap others and make it worse.

If anything, Turbine is back on track with adding a new system for the game dynamic with RoR, considering RoI really did not add anything to this.

Who cares about a physical game box that collects dust or adds to the trash in our land fills. Costs have not gone down in the gaming industry ... labor, development, licensing ... all these things have gone up, especially on big titles.

Originally Posted by warriorpoetex

...
If anything, Turbine is back on track with adding a new system for the game dynamic with RoR, considering RoI really did not add anything to this.

How about an expansion that is released with no instances? Turbine is right back on their own track with weak expansions. If you believe the spin - RoR will be huge. If you believe history and what facts we actually do know about it - it will be "meh" again. Can you say "mediocrity"?

Originally Posted by Alex53

I'd rather be paying monthly and make the store and all the rubbish that came with ftp go away.

The whole content is now designed around cashing directly,

If you subscribe, you do not need to every use the store. There is no content at all designed around the store. However if you don't want to subscribe the option is there to get content ala-carte and thus pay less money than subscribers.

Originally Posted by Cindir

How about an expansion that is released with no instances? Turbine is right back on their own track with weak expansions. If you believe the spin - RoR will be huge. If you believe history and what facts we actually do know about it - it will be "meh" again. Can you say "mediocrity"?

Since your mind is apparently made up, find a game that lives up to all your expectations. The expansion will be what it will be, the spin goes both ways ...

Originally Posted by warriorpoetex

How about x2 the level increase over Mirkwood and easily x2 the content plus a landscape you could fit 3 or 4 Mirkwood's in. What the heck do you expect ... ? People did not complain this much with Moria when technically you are getting the same if not more.

Level cap increase is free. It is not included in the price tag.

Landscape is free. It is not included in the price tag.

Originally Posted by warriorpoetex

Moria - Large Map - 10 levels - LI System - 30-40$ Release Price Point
Mirkwood - Small Map - 5 levels - Skirmish System - 20$ Purchase
RoI - Small/Medium Map - 10 levels - No New System - 30$ Purchase (Not Adding Fluff Packages)
RoR - Large Map - 10 levels - Mounted Combat - 40$ Purchase (Not Adding Fluff Packages)

All the above include instances with purchase, 3/6/Raid and Skirmishes (sans Moria until V2 revision).

Again, Mounted combat is free. Landscape is free. They are not included in the price tag. You can include the extra trait line in the price tag if you would like.

Please, read my post more carefully. I'm sure I was clear enough. Was I not?

Originally Posted by warriorpoetex

Who cares about a physical game box that collects dust or adds to the trash in our land fills. Costs have not gone down in the gaming industry ... labor, development, licensing ... all these things have gone up, especially on big titles.

Don't do that. Don't go into subjects that are both irrelevant to this thread and that you are not very well informed in.

But if you really want a reply to that irrelevant point: Riders of Rohan is not a big title by any means.

Originally Posted by Lwio

I've left lotro a few months back, it got boring and after the last few updates that I paid for I thought it was basically a waste of money.
Now we have the ROR update $40 min price, I'm certainly not going to pay that for a couple of weeks entertainment, I have better games on my ps3 to occupy my time.
How is Turbine going to tempt me back? Well make the update free, charge for all the extras they normally do but make the new area, quests, instances free. If it's free the likes of me will download play for a while, maybe buy the stuff they sell, maybe not but at least I'll be there along with many others. The market has changed.
Turbine you are pricing yourselves out of the market I'm afraid.

I'm not sure I can say anything about this that hasn't already been said, expect to say that I disagree with the OP. It's comical to expect a company to give away all of their hard work on the hopes that fickle players MIGHT buy something from the store.

Originally Posted by MoonwalkIntoMordor

$20 was what I paid to pre-order Siege of Mirkwood. Considering the game was not F2P back then (i.e. two thirds of the expansion was not available to those who didn't purchase it), that $20 got me much more than what Riders of Rohan apparently will for $40.

In my eyes the base RoR expansion is not worth more than $20. Quest pack, extra mounted combat trait line, instance cluster that will arrive later. Pretty much everything else that is being advertised in the Riders of Rohan website is free to all players. Add the 1000 TP bonus for the pre-order and that could perhaps justify $30.

But $40? If they were going to send me a physical boxed copy.

Obviously, demanding it to be free is hilarious. But has anyone figured out why the base expansion pre-order deserves the $40 price tag?

I paid $20 for Mirkwood as well, but I also got the Adevntures' pack, which added 2 character slots and 30 slots of shared storage. So, it was a really good deal.

As you said, SoM was before F2P, so that is likely a factor in the increased price. Sadly, we can't tell for sure why Turbine thinks RoR is worth $40 until Turbine releases more information about it. I'm just hoping for the best, and that RoR is really worth the increased price.

Originally Posted by Jiraiyaisnolia

As you said, SoM was before F2P, so that is likely a factor in the increased price. Sadly, we can't tell for sure why Turbine thinks RoR is worth $40 until Turbine releases more information about it.

To be honest, I don't see going F2P as a justification of high expansion price tags that do not match the actual worth of the products included. If anything, the LOTRO Store should be compensating the revenue "lost" due to the people who play for free.

I've said this before. If Turbine is inflating expansion prices simply because the Store is not earning enough, then something is wrong with their model.

Originally Posted by Jiraiyaisnolia

I paid $20 for Mirkwood as well, but I also got the Adevntures' pack, which added 2 character slots and 30 slots of shared storage. So, it was a really good deal.

As you said, SoM was before F2P, so that is likely a factor in the increased price. Sadly, we can't tell for sure why Turbine thinks RoR is worth $40 until Turbine releases more information about it. I'm just hoping for the best, and that RoR is really worth the increased price.

If the game being F2P now justifies the increased price somehow, then I'm just confused. One would think that having triple the pre-F2P revenues (Turbine's claim) and "thousands of new players a day" (Sapience's claim) would mean that the expansions would be cheaper - or at least not be more expensive for less content (see MoonwalkIntoMordor's summation above, or Celestrata's confirmation that most of what's arriving on September 5th is actually free to all players).

Originally Posted by Eclair1024

I'm not sure I can say anything about this that hasn't already been said, expect to say that I disagree with the OP. It's comical to expect a company to give away all of their hard work on the hopes that fickle players MIGHT buy something from the store.

Aside from the other thousands of F2P game companies that do? Some of them don't even depend on store purchases, there are 30 listed *just* on Steam, which has only recently listed F2P games in the past year, just listing a few:

TF2
Spiral Knights
Path of Exile (in beta)
Champions Online
Global Agenda
War Inc.
Forsaken World
Pandora Saga
Pox Nora
Rise of Immortals
etc. etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Lestache

If the game being F2P now justifies the increased price somehow, then I'm just confused. One would think that having triple the pre-F2P revenues (Turbine's claim) and "thousands of new players a day" (Sapience's claim) would mean that the expansions would be cheaper - or at least not be more expensive for less content (see MoonwalkIntoMordor's summation above, or Celestrata's confirmation that most of what's arriving on September 5th is actually free to all players).

Well, what I meant by that was that the price may have been increased for paying customers to help cover the cost of those that play for free. It's just speculation on my part.

As I recall, those revenue statement were made some time ago, and it's a possibility that revenue from the store may have dropped since that time. If that's the case, then the price increase could be due to that.

The price could also be higher because there's another management layer that needs to be paid now that wasn't there when Moria launched. I'm looking at you, WB....

EDIT: Maybe the licensing fees for LotR franchise have increased? Didn't Turbine renew the contract between the time Moria was released and now?

I think cars should be free and you should just have to pay for gas.

Seriously though, I'm just glad LOTRO isn't like the guild wars pricing model. I don't want to pay for the game upfront and pay for content updates too. At least LOTRO gives you options for payment models. Some people are never happy and want everything for nothing. The developers put in many hours working on content. They need to be paid for that work so Turbine has to make money from it's customers in order to pay it's staff and other expenses.

Thanks for all the replies, some more helpful than others.
Some people reckon this a Troll post, well I've killed plenty of Trolls on lotro over the years, I hope I'm not starting to look like one.
There's nothing wrong with discussing things like this, it doesn't mean that Turbine will drop everything and do as I suggest in fact I doubt if they will. Although I'm sure they have discussed it.
The computer gaming market is rapidly changing, just look at the way Apple has changed the world of casual gaming with the iPhone and iPad. I think the world of online games is in for change too. New leaner studios will pop up and threaten the big names. The pie will be divided into smaller and smaller portions.They all have thier own pricing structures, some get it right others dont.
I have enjoyed lotro over the years and hope it continues to entertain but I fear they need to change or they may not survive.

I agree, or at least a lighter price.
But, it is actually quite a lot of items. It would be better for those who wish not to use their money on online games such as this. I don't really want most of it, but if you don't want to pay as much, maybe they should make a version that costs less but has lower grade items.

For example, the swords do less damage, the mounts are slower, and etc.

Originally Posted by Stormwraith

I agree, or at least a lighter price.
But, it is actually quite a lot of items. It would be better for those who wish not to use their money on online games such as this. I don't really want most of it, but if you don't want to pay as much, maybe they should make a version that costs less but has lower grade items.

For example, the swords do less damage, the mounts are slower, and etc.

Please no. That is literally the definition of Pay to Win. People would go BANANAS! The forums would explode! The internet would crash! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Who you gonna call???

Originally Posted by jayspeed

Please no. That is literally the definition of Pay to Win. People would go BANANAS! The forums would explode! The internet would crash! Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Who you gonna call???

Yeah, the forums would definately meltdown if Turbine tried that. I believe that Turbine has implemented the only resaonable solution, and that is to block content for those that do not purchase said content. (either with cash or TP.)

Originally Posted by Lwio

Thanks for all the replies, some more helpful than others.
Some people reckon this a Troll post, well I've killed plenty of Trolls on lotro over the years, I hope I'm not starting to look like one.
There's nothing wrong with discussing things like this, it doesn't mean that Turbine will drop everything and do as I suggest in fact I doubt if they will. Although I'm sure they have discussed it.
The computer gaming market is rapidly changing, just look at the way Apple has changed the world of casual gaming with the iPhone and iPad. I think the world of online games is in for change too. New leaner studios will pop up and threaten the big names. The pie will be divided into smaller and smaller portions.They all have thier own pricing structures, some get it right others dont.
I have enjoyed lotro over the years and hope it continues to entertain but I fear they need to change or they may not survive.

One issue with this premise is the lack of a business model supporting the proposition that giving ROR away at no cost, with the hope of micro-transactions from a non-committal and fickle player segment, is sustainable.

At best this is a fallacious dog-whistle type of forum post wrapped in vague prognostications of market change where stating the blindingly obvious is deemed an adequate argument.

No.
/morechar

Iphone aps are just sprouting up a lot because they are small and easy for one guy to create.
The same used to happen in computer games back when you had the commodore 64 as the biggest selling personal computer in the world.
Back then it took a week to pump out a basic game. It all had to do with how small the program was.
Now is different because there is more programming involved.

Wait a few more years and the little guys in the ap business will be pushed out as phones become more powerful and hold more memory. Just the same that happenned in the computer gaming industry.

Originally Posted by Jiraiyaisnolia

Seriously? Give you the content for free, and MAYBE you'll buy something?

Well, that's what Free2Play is all about, isn't it?

Originally Posted by obibrant

Aside from the other thousands of F2P game companies that do? Some of them don't even depend on store purchases, there are 30 listed *just* on Steam, which has only recently listed F2P games in the past year, just listing a few:

TF2
....

TF2? Worst example ever!
You get only the game. They dont give you servers to play on for free! Someone is paying for the servers you play on!
Also they got ingame store selling the best game gear for real money.

Seriously, if you are about to post something first check if your information is correct! To throw here your misinformation and try to look cool is lame at best.

All of the "thousands of F2P game companies" you dream of are making games unplayable unless you buy things from the store to advance, one dollar here, one more there... a friend of mine told me a real story about his friend who spent 1300+ USD in one month in a such F2P game. Beware what you ask for!

Originally Posted by MightyKOko

TF2? Worst example ever!
You get only the game. They dont give you servers to play on for free! Someone is paying for the servers you play on!
Also they got ingame store selling the best game gear for real money.

Seriously, if you are about to post something first check if your information is correct! To throw here your misinformation and try to look cool is lame at best.

All of the "thousands of F2P game companies" you dream of are making games unplayable unless you buy things from the store to advance, one dollar here, one more there... a friend of mine told me a real story about his friend who spent 1300+ USD in one month in a such F2P game. Beware what you ask for!

This, and I did specify MMO games. TF2, while online multiplayer, is not massively mulitiplay by any means, at least in my opinion. Was it really free in the first place? I thought it was bundled with other games that you had to pay for. So, so, was it really free? Or has that changed? (It's been a while since I plaued that)

To another poster, I played Rift last year because they GAVE AWAY full retail boxed copies of the game at Gencon last year. (Does that sound like a bad sign to you?) So, while it is free to play now, you can only play to level 20, not to level cap like you can in LOTRO.

Originally Posted by MaxDetroit

Well, that's what Free2Play is all about, isn't it?

Well, I don't think so. As another poster has stated, that really isn't a sustainable busniss model in the US.

Originally Posted by MightyKOko

TF2? Worst example ever!
You get only the game. They dont give you servers to play on for free! Someone is paying for the servers you play on!
Also they got ingame store selling the best game gear for real money.

Seriously, if you are about to post something first check if your information is correct! To throw here your misinformation and try to look cool is lame at best.

All of the "thousands of F2P game companies" you dream of are making games unplayable unless you buy things from the store to advance, one dollar here, one more there... a friend of mine told me a real story about his friend who spent 1300+ USD in one month in a such F2P game. Beware what you ask for!

Correct, but painting all of these games with a broad brush is just as much misinformation, especially since my post was a reply to a specific poster. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, however such as the anecdote you've provided with a friend paying 1300+ USD on an in-game store, there *are* F2P games that do find it to be a viable business model.

Originally Posted by Lwio

I've left lotro a few months back, it got boring and after the last few updates that I paid for I thought it was basically a waste of money.
Now we have the ROR update $40 min price, I'm certainly not going to pay that for a couple of weeks entertainment, I have better games on my ps3 to occupy my time.
How is Turbine going to tempt me back? Well make the update free, charge for all the extras they normally do but make the new area, quests, instances free. If it's free the likes of me will download play for a while, maybe buy the stuff they sell, maybe not but at least I'll be there along with many others. The market has changed.
Turbine you are pricing yourselves out of the market I'm afraid.

No game company is going to release an expansion for free. How about all that develepment time that has to be paid for?

Yes, Turbine makes me shake my head at times, but even I can see that they have a lot better finger on the market than any of us do.

Originally Posted by jayspeed

dogs and cats living together...

I don't think mankind would ever recover from this. It's so out there that people would just freak.

Originally Posted by Gundamyr

Well if it is free I paid $80 I will need a refund

RoR needs to be free so people can get to lvl 85 easier. I got to lvl 65 one day(without vip) and then then Isenguard update cameso the lvl cap was 75 and i was so pissed that i just played creeps. Turbine also needs to give all creeeps for free instead of paying 795 TPs. Turbine needs to give MP some slack.

Originally Posted by Lwio

I've left lotro a few months back, it got boring and after the last few updates that I paid for I thought it was basically a waste of money.
Now we have the ROR update $40 min price, I'm certainly not going to pay that for a couple of weeks entertainment, I have better games on my ps3 to occupy my time.
How is Turbine going to tempt me back? Well make the update free, charge for all the extras they normally do but make the new area, quests, instances free. If it's free the likes of me will download play for a while, maybe buy the stuff they sell, maybe not but at least I'll be there along with many others. The market has changed.
Turbine you are pricing yourselves out of the market I'm afraid.

Did you ever saw something for FREE and its good and so wide like LOTRO ?
Well people must learn that every work needs to be payed. If there are people who work like employees for LOTRO they must be payed for work.
If want free games , play TETRIS !

If that is the kind of game u want then go online and find it -- they r out there like Shaiya--!!
As for me I like LOTRO just the way it is. If I don't have the money to buy ROR, I will earn the TP to get ROR. Or buy it a little at a time till i have enough to get ROR either way I don't agree that the expansion should not be free.

JMHO