i just got this is the mail. So free char transfers must mean they lost lots of players?
----------------------------------- Come Back and Play at No Charge* for Up to 7 Days!
We would like to offer you the opportunity to come back and play Game Update 1.3: Allies for 7 days on us* until 7/17/2012, 2:00AM CDT/ 7:00AM GMT. Plus, take advantage of our Free Character Transfer Service to receive exclusive in-game rewards** when you transfer your character(s) to the pre-selected destination server and have an active account by July 30, 2012, 11:59PM CDT / July 31, 2012, 4:59 AM GMT.
--------------------------------------
Last edited by enginekid; Jul 10 2012 at 08:40 PM.
along with the new trial thingy they are offering folks a custom speeder if any of their referrals....
If one or more of your friends purchases The Old Republic™, pays for a recurring monthly subscription or redeems a Pre-Paid Game Time Code, and passes the 30 days of play time included with the purchase of the game, you'll receive an exclusive in-game Kurtob Alliance Speeder via in-game mail
what sucks for me at least is that i just recently got my kids into the game less then a month ago, i doubt ill get credit for that speeder...bah.
I believe they offered free game time after 1.2 to get players back into the game. Seems pretty standard for them to do that. I'm happy about them giving the first 15 levels to prospective players. It is nice when people can try out a game before they have to make a major commitment. I do not think the game will go to F2P like LOTRO any time soon. If it ever does, I can only imagine how heavy handed EA would get with it. They would make the p2w / grind for grind sake avoidance store items that LOTRO uses look like a good deal. Still glad I'm hitching my cart to GW2. Soon...very Soon... Lotro was a nice summer distraction but it is just a generic fantasy MMO with a little Tolkien thrown in.
Hello again hitomo_x3. Got your previous account banned did you?
OT: Bah, I've been updating the client since yesterday, and it's honestly taking a million years. Certainly far longer than LOTRO did the last time I downloaded it from scratch.
As for the speeder thing... was this done before or after LOTRO did theirs? Seems like a popular tactic to use. Not that I'm complaining of course.
*flies off on 'winged' steed*
Originally Posted by ostlix
Soon...very Soon... Lotro was a nice summer distraction but it is just a generic fantasy MMO with a little Tolkien thrown in.
Erm, not bashing anything here but if LOTRO is a generic fantasy MMO then what does that make GW2?
You know, thats really mean of you. If you like playing the game support those hardworking devs, man.
This game will not go F2P. They would need to restructure everything. Not going to happen.
This a serious product of 2012. You cant just trash it and start selling it piece by piece like they did here.
And if I would have far over a million subscribers I would laugh at all those F2P companys trying to beat
themself in fooling and ripping over there 'customers'.
Greed cant lead to pleasing. Competetion is the only way to force a company into trying to please there customers.
F2P is not a business of competetion. Its a business based on addiction and therfore its forbidden in real life.
As sad I find your comment really mean and seems if you are playing with different standarts here.
But I guess thats how it looks if a fanboy starts burning from inside out, right?
Huh? How is that mean? I'm going to play the game!
I'll support them when they open up to level 50 and have a shop, just like LOTRO. Until then, no money from me.. Just played 1 - 6 on my Imperial Agent.
Erm, not bashing anything here but if LOTRO is a generic fantasy MMO then what does that make GW2?
Less of a WoW clone in playstyle. I meant lotro is more generic in MMO tropes than GW2. I've actually enjoyed some of the quest lines, but most of them boil down to go here get this or kill this and return. I'd love it if LOTRO had more interesting innovations but it doesn't. Same PvE over and over again, PvP is an afterthought and much of the PvE instancing is buggy / unbalanced...at least from what I've read. Maybe mounted combat will be the innovation that brings people and keeps them in LOTRO. I think LOTRO is fine, if other people love it I would not blame them. It is just doesn't feel like a game I'll stick with. Buying stats has always felt strange to me as well, who thought that was gonna be a good idea?
Less of a WoW clone in playstyle. I meant lotro is more generic in MMO tropes than GW2. I've actually enjoyed some of the quest lines, but most of them boil down to go here get this or kill this and return. I'd love it if LOTRO had more interesting innovations but it doesn't. Same PvE over and over again, PvP is an afterthought and much of the PvE instancing is buggy / unbalanced...at least from what I've read. Maybe mounted combat will be the innovation that brings people and keeps them in LOTRO. I think LOTRO is fine, if other people love it I would not blame them. It is just doesn't feel like a game I'll stick with. Buying stats has always felt strange to me as well, who thought that was gonna be a good idea?
Ah, fair enough then. I presumed you were talking solely about the story rather than MMO mechanics as a whole. I mean, regardless of how well GW2 works in terms of gameplay its story is still going to be generic, at least in comparison to Tolkien.
Can't say I agree with all of your points but that doesn't really matter. Not interested in starting an argument or anything I was just curious about the way you worded your previous post. Thanks for clarifying.
I'm anticipating SWtoR free-to-play model with such tension that I'm threatening to explode. Star Wars is one of my most cherished universes, and since SWtoR is a continuation of KotOR storyline, I get very excited just thinking about it :P
Meanwhile, I'm going to download the SWtoR client and try the game out, and if a f2p model doesn't kick in in the near future, then who knows... a good Star Wars story is worth every penny, that I am certain of.
Free-to-play announced today. Among the blurb on the announcement:
Free-to-Play –The first 50 levels will be free-to-play, with some restrictions on access to new content and advanced player features. Some restrictions can be “unlocked” with Cartel Coins.
I tried out the game at launch and quit in less than 2 months. I enjoyed the leveling but hated the end-game. I felt the game wasn't worth a sub fee, but going f2p means I can go back and finish leveling my alts on a casual basis, which I'm pleased about.
I think it's a good move, although it says a lot about the current over saturated MMO market that a premium title like this has to go f2p in its first year. Maybe a certain other 'f2p' game coming out in the next month also influenced this decision.
I'll reinstall the game just because I bought it but I'm hoping the new content adds some deviation from the questing tunnel you're forced to go thru. Same planets on all alts. Same quests except class quests. Becomes boring after the 2nd time. F2P crafting sounds good though.
Sons of Numenor happens to have guilds on Ebon Hawk, in the Imperial and Republic factions, and an all-trooper guild as well!
Sons of Numenor, Scions of Korriban, and the XXII'nd IX'th.
That said, the game still has to deal with the legion of issues that have nothing to do with the subscription cost. But we have many members, nearly all, who won't come back unless they can play for free. Many more that won't touch it unless they can seriously play it for free.
Their Account Type chart looks rather similar to our. From what I get, F2P can't level past 50 (is their cap 60 now?), cannot play as some of the races, cannot do raids at all, can only do instances/space missions so much per week, plus the usual limitations on character slots, AH slots, travel options, bags, etc.
SO far it seems you can only get CC (their TP) either from having current/former sub or by buying them with money, so no farming deeds to play really free forever. Still, I am a huge Star Wars fan and already read all TOR tie-in novels, comics and books without even playing the game itself - so I'll probably be playing the class stories if nothing else. From what I heard, the game is lacking on end-game anyway - at the very least I'll have single-player KOTOR #3-10
There's no saving the game. Many months too late. As with LOTRO, there will be needed a drastic change to make up for the lost time, otherwise just another case of emptying servers (yet with every nice name taken haha).
Free initial levels was used with pay-to-play games 2001 - combined with zero initial download fee. There's really no excuse to stray from that business model, a gamer will need a chance to try the gameplay.
I'd like to know that too. F2P and the store was added but the actual game stayed the same.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
Civ II rules after all these years......
How about the drastic change of going from a sub model to F2P - which lead to the drastic change of so many new players trying the game at start of F2P and since then.
He did not say "the game changed drasticly from how it was before". It was Turbine that made the huge change to the game by introducing F2P, adding the store, changing how you paid for the game, etc.
Ah - drastic as in Making the game client downloadable for free and making the game explorable for free. F2p was a major change.
EDIT
Wish GW2 had that as well. I'm not too cheap to pay for playing games, just given the many alternatives out there I don't see a reason to try the pay-to-test games at all.
Last edited by Macroscian; Aug 01 2012 at 04:41 AM.
From what I read in their FAQ it will be way more restrictive model compared to the F2P in LOTRO:
No premanent unlocks if you have been a subscriber for some time, once you stop subing you get all the f2p restrictions at once.
No word about earning the store currency ingame.
No middle layer between sub and f2p (aka Premium).
Anyway, due to some yesterdays hot drama in my (already) former kin, I think I will be shelving LOTRO again for some time and just renewed my SWTOR subscribtion and will look forward for their F2P model.
F2P is no cure for all. It all depends how it is implemented. Just take a look at AoC, it didn't save this one. One of the smartest things Turbine did was to allow players to earn TP ingame.
I tried the game when it launched. My boyfriend gifted me Kotor for Christmas and I loved it. Later we played SWTOR together and.. we grew bored of the game.
The poor optimization was an important part of it. I can play LOTRO and WOW without problem. Mass Effect 3 runs more than well but yet my computer wasn't able to run SWTOR smoodly and it was a nightmare to my grafics card. We couldn't play together because of that so we both stopped playing it.
Got my main to lvl 50 using my boyfriend's computer (we live together). And once at the level cap I didn't run a single Flashpoint (AKA instances). I was a healer (trooper) but the lack of a proper group finding tool and real live time constraints kept me from playing with kinnies (also having to use my boyfriend's computer was a total fail because if he wanted to play his games, I couldn't play).
Now the game is going F2P. I'd like to see the rest of character stories so I'll be looking forward to their F2P model and see if it will be worth it/playable at all.
I grow tired of raiding because of WoW and it's community (there are nice people but the community in general is bad) and now I don't feel like raiding at all so actually I prefer Lotro's F2P model by far. I prefer buying zones/content instead of paying a sub since after a few years of raiding in WoW and playing it daily I found a lot of love in Lotro's freedom (entering when I feel like it, play my main or my alts for a week, a month or two and then stop for two weeks if I don't want to play). Sure I can do that in a subs game but I hate paying a month and play only 3-4 hours one week and don't play at all during the rest of that month. SWTOR has the same problem as WoW (its a WoW clone in fact) so I didn't see the point of paying a sub for the same game with a new skin and as I only like to see the stories and do a few flashpoints maybe I'll give it a try (not using my pc lol) depending of how they implement their F2P model (I didn't bother with SOE's F2P model because it was way too restrictive).
Anyway I'd like to see KOTOR 3, because SWTOR isn't that at all (although some people says otherwise). Maybe the problem was making it a MMO since the classes storylines make it feel a lot like a single player game.
Btw I'll continue playing Lotro since I'm enjoying every single moment I'm in Middle Earth and I don't think SWTOR will be a real competitor for it not for what their F2P model seems to be and not for the story itself.
I will say my brief "I told you so" and quickly wonder where all the people that insulted me for saying before December of this year are? Not here? Okay.
Beyond that, I am very very excited for the game and for myself. I reinstalled about a month ago and have enjoyed much of the intro and tried every class. Now, I can venture forth and see almost everything. No need to grind CC's I just want to get a real feel for the place and when I have some spare cash, I'll spend (because I do support the games I play).
Wow. Now I have some real research to do today! Thanks for the update.
I will say my brief "I told you so" and quickly wonder where all the people that insulted me for saying before December of this year are? Not here? Okay.
Beyond that, I am very very excited for the game and for myself. I reinstalled about a month ago and have enjoyed much of the intro and tried every class. Now, I can venture forth and see almost everything. No need to grind CC's I just want to get a real feel for the place and when I have some spare cash, I'll spend (because I do support the games I play).
Wow. Now I have some real research to do today! Thanks for the update.
Yeah, me too. I'm not in the least bit surprised about the news - the game was so obviously designed for a future switch to F2P. If anything, the only surprise for me is that it took less then a year.
well the one thing most obvious is the in-game store already built into TOR for handling VIPs.
the cartel market is just a re-skinned/gussied up version of that.
p.s. and to all the folks who said it wouldnt go f2p before the year anni....
That, and the easy segmentation of the aspects of the game like space battles, operations, war zones, etc etc all making sweet little add on packages that can be released in smaller chunks (they're already ramping this up).
And the obvious up front load cost at open (was honestly my first warning sign. No one had ever entered the market at that price point before, especially an MMO. It screamed 'need to grab all we can before release' because they knew what they had... a game that, although good, did not deliver on their promises and the outrageous expectations of their fan base).
And the 'special species'.
The class restricted gear and and lack of real endgame.
Look, they release an incomplete game. And they knew it. They spent a heck of a lot of time on story (which, btw is fabulous) and could either miss release date, or release ad hoc, grab an upfront by stacking the cost, then dropping the sub, blaming the players, and going with the free to play model they had toyed with since beta 2.
There were several of us saying this before launch and we got SLAMMED and the press releases seemed to back up the people who yelled at us. But we saw this coming. I said BEFORE the end of Dec 2012 it would be free to play because they could make an absolute killing off of this game 'as is' if they ran with that model. They did one better and banked a substantial amount off of pre-purchase and early subs, THEN switched to the most profitable model available. Just like STO did. But, TOT is a better game than STO.
Now is when the real fun begins and they release more and more of the actual planned game and make free players pay to get it, or sub. Watch all the fixes and new features come rolling out over the next year. Many of the features they wanted for release were close to complete, and it will look like a mountain of content made over a short period. In actuality, all the 'new stuff' will be what they promised for release and never delivered.
I would be interested to know what about the design led you to think this?
Well, the first and most obvious part was the section of the beta EULA that mentioned in game store credits, and that they weren't going to hold over to the released game. If there's a store in beta, odds are there's plans to have a store post-launch. I forget the actual quote, I could go find it again if I was more interested. :-)
Other then that, it was just playability stuff - there was no way in heck that the designers could have possibly imagined that they had given players any reason to subscribe beyond the initial 30 day freebie. When you can hit level cap in under 3 weeks without even really trying, and never having to actually group up with anyone (and this is something I'll come back to) then you have to be thinking about alternative business models in the future.
Here's the thing about not having to group up - there was never a need, in this game, to partake in any social aspect of the game. It was designed as a solo play game, where you could play co-op if you wanted to. That's it, that's all it is. You can get your first in-game companion by about level 3 if you work at it, and after that there's almost no content that you can't solo (exceptions being the 4+ raid content...and even then you can do a lot of those with 2 player and 2 companions.)
The argument will be made that there are 2 factions and 4 main class types with 2 advanced classes each... but if your like me, that means there are exactly 2 classes (one per faction) that you're even interested in playing. And once you've played them... there's little to no replay value in them. All of which points to a conscious plan to *not* encourage long-term subscriptions. Can't advance, can't reroll and do something differently... why play for month 2? And that's exactly what they found in April of this year - people that jumped into the game during the primary sales quarter of the year hit the end of their 30 days, and buggered off to greener pastures.
So basically... they released a game, advertised and sold it as a "subscription - based" to grab initial cash pile and mere months later announced switching to f2p.... hmmm... I guess the only thing I can say is: nice job - if it was indeed a plan, not "saving my butt" strategy of some suits. If it was a plan all along I'm just wondering whether to laugh at myself for expecting something better or to get some popcorn and enjoy some interesting threads that are bound to appear and endlessly multiply. I knew EA/BW was better at making money & PR than at making games... but not to this extent
The store in beta you refer to I believe is the in game vendor that collectors edition and digital deluxe edition buyers have access to. I believe they planned for a different currency to be used here but in the end went with credits the same as everything else.
Originally Posted by Arbalister
Other then that, it was just playability stuff - there was no way in heck that the designers could have possibly imagined that they had given players any reason to subscribe beyond the initial 30 day freebie. When you can hit level cap in under 3 weeks without even really trying, and never having to actually group up with anyone (and this is something I'll come back to) then you have to be thinking about alternative business models in the future.
I can hit level cap in nearly all modern MMOs including P2P WoW without ever grouping, yes WoW may take longer to do but lets face it its got a few years more content to get through and you can still do it quite quickly.
Originally Posted by Arbalister
Here's the thing about not having to group up - there was never a need, in this game, to partake in any social aspect of the game. It was designed as a solo play game, where you could play co-op if you wanted to. That's it, that's all it is. You can get your first in-game companion by about level 3 if you work at it, and after that there's almost no content that you can't solo (exceptions being the 4+ raid content...and even then you can do a lot of those with 2 player and 2 companions.)
Again, I agree but I don't have to group up in a lot of modern MMOs, I don't really see how SWTOR was any different in this respect. As you level in SWTOR there is far more optional group content that you can participate in than there was in SoA lotro for example. Each planet has a series of 2+ or 4+ heroics or once you hit level 10 a new 4 more flashpoint opens up almost every 10 levels. I agree though it is all optional.
I don't really see how the stuff you mention shows a clear intention to move to F2P in the future.
Incidentally I actually think its inevitable for any modern MMO to move to the F2P model eventually, even WoW will do it one day I am sure when its bubble does, eventually, burst. It's the speed of SWTORs move to F2P that is what is most suprising.
Last edited by Runesi_EU; Aug 01 2012 at 03:12 PM.
F2P is no cure for all. It all depends how it is implemented. Just take a look at AoC, it didn't save this one. One of the smartest things Turbine did was to allow players to earn TP ingame.
They are also not allowing F2P players to post in their forums.
I think that one of the things that Turbine got right was not segmenting the community. MMOs thrive on their sense of community, and institutionalizing a "them and us" mindset is probably a big mistake.
Turbine's big success was to be very careful in deciding the differences between F2P and P2P. By making almsot everything in the game available, they minimized the potential for forming 2 separte communities. The other big success was to make the grind to gain TPs large enough to encourage those who are willining to part with some $$ without making it so bad as to be effectively impossible. The concept of Premium was also a master stroke as it provids some encouragement to get people over the hump of their first real money transaction. That appears to be missing in SWTORs model.
One thing to note is you still have to buy the game, at a reduced price, before you can play, so it is not completely F2P
Looking at their webiste, the above seems wrong. You do not need to buy the game:
"Anyone can download and play the game for free when the Free-to-Play option goes live. Or download the Free Trial and play to level 15 for free now. "
It seems you can just start playing. I am guessing a lot of people will try it. I will.
Looking at their webiste, the above seems wrong. You do not need to buy the game:
"Anyone can download and play the game for free when the Free-to-Play option goes live. Or download the Free Trial and play to level 15 for free now. "
It seems you can just start playing. I am guessing a lot of people will try it. I will.
I read on one site they are reducing the retail price of the game to the same as a monthly sub. Why would you want to buy a retail box of the game is free. Might just have been the way it was written but it did read as though you would need to buy a retail box.
Someone posted today elsewhere that they like the overall game play and mechanics in SWTOR better than Lotro (yes, of course both must have plusses and minuses). I have also seen many posts by players saying PVP in SWTOR is pretty fun.
If the basic game is pretty good - then a F2P trial can be a very good experience. I am currently playing a lot of WoW on the F2P trial - why? because the basic gameplay is better than what I get in Lotro. No time spent moving items around due to Lotro bag space issues, quick crafting in WoW, great combat, dungeon finder, low level PVP, very good itemization. I am quite amazed at WoW's F2P experience. About the only thing you can't do is use AH and join a guild. Perfect for someone like me who likes to play at random times and without friends.
If SWTOR offers a good F2P experience then they could do very well. I do think Lotro has done well with their F2P system, but the game has many basic flaws that, for me, detracts from the game (bag space, bad AH, no low level PVP, no working IF, etc.). If Lotro had improved these things, then their F2P model would have done much better than it is doing now. I am sure people come to Lotro, play for a few months, and then leave because, for them, the game is just lacking in many ways.
I read on one site they are reducing the retail price of the game to the same as a monthly sub. Why would you want to buy a retail box of the game is free. Might just have been the way it was written but it did read as though you would need to buy a retail box.
They are doing this until f2p launches to squeeze every last nickel out and promising if you buy now you'll gtet a bunch of benefits you'll never get after f2p... which is bogus.
The game will in fact be free to download this fall.
As for whether this was their plan all along or a save your hind quarters move, I think it was a planned idea for 2 to 3 years down the road, until they launched half finished, then it became a 'watch it closely' move. After 'free trial' did nothing to boost subs, they finally put plan BTOR into action.
A designed move for a back up plan and extended life plan that had to be launched early and now will land on Tatooine, leaving the two helpless, hapless droids to fend for themselves... wait what? POD RACING!!! Oh my jeez... sorry.
Game Login
Subscribers will always be in login queues ahead of free players.
For the one or two days a year that this actually matters here in LOTRO, I wish that we had this.
Someone asked about level cap earlier - it's still 50 in SWTOR. The F2P link doesn't indicate that F2P players will be limited to level 50 - it states that both subscribers and VIPs will be able to play their class story all the way to level 50.
"Sam thinks it a queer place, but I think he likes it, too." - Frodo
"If you're in advertising or marketing, kill yourself." - Bill Hicks
I'm not quite so sure they planned it like some of you are suggesting, although you do make some good observations.
The game had many shortcomings (in fact if you look you can still find the thread "LotRO or SWTOR, LotRO FTW" somewhere around here where many of us talked about the games glaring issues) and it was reflected in the rapidly declining sub numbesr. Bioware/EA saw the writing on the wall and were forced to go the F2P route.
However, I firmly think that in this day and age of a saturated mmo market, if you do not have a F2P option at least well thought out that can be implemented quickly, you are not prepared for the future of your game. It is near impossible to maintain a strong subscription base when people have so many choices to jump from ship to ship, trying out all their various gaming options.
I don't beleive F2P/hybrid models are a sign of failure, rather a sign of the inevitability of the fact that you can not/will not be able spit out as much content as your sub paying customers require to stay busy.
(WoW is the exception here, as they timed the market impecably to capture tonnes of people, who now are so heavily invested in the game they will most likely never leave. Although Blizzard sub numbers have also dropped from 12 mil>10.3mil>10.0 mil recently, so who knows....)
Curiously, the evolution of the internet seems inversely proportional to the evolution of man.
Interesting comments in an article about it. Below a million subs now, and close to half a million by November, perhaps:
In an earnings call Tuesday, EA noted that the game some believed had the firepower to take down perennial online role-playing game champ World of Warcraft currently sports fewer than one million paying subscribers. That's down from the 1.3 million it reported back in May and a serious drop from the 1.7 million it enjoyed in March.
To combat the player exodus, EA also announced that it will turn Star Wars: The Old Republic into a free-to-play title beginning in November. The option will give players access to all eight character class storylines up to level 50, though some features and content will be restricted. Players can unlock some of that content by purchasing 'Cartel Coins', the game's new virtual currency.
Interesting comments in an article about it. Below a million subs now, and close to half a million by November, perhaps:
In an earnings call Tuesday, EA noted that the game some believed had the firepower to take down perennial online role-playing game champ World of Warcraft currently sports fewer than one million paying subscribers. That's down from the 1.3 million it reported back in May and a serious drop from the 1.7 million it enjoyed in March.
To combat the player exodus, EA also announced that it will turn Star Wars: The Old Republic into a free-to-play title beginning in November. The option will give players access to all eight character class storylines up to level 50, though some features and content will be restricted. Players can unlock some of that content by purchasing 'Cartel Coins', the game's new virtual currency.
"The option will give players access to all eight character class storylines up to level 50, though some features and content will be restricted."
The class storylines don't provide nearly enough experience to level up by themselves. I wonder if any of the regular PvE quests will have restrictions (I already see that they're planning to limit the number of flashpoints and PvP warzones an F2P player can do). Heroics disabled for F2P? Have to unlock planet quests past a certain point? I don't know.
Pure conjecture on my part, by the way. I have no basis other than the wording above.
"Sam thinks it a queer place, but I think he likes it, too." - Frodo
"If you're in advertising or marketing, kill yourself." - Bill Hicks
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Originally Posted by hitm_x.2
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Well, the first and most obvious part was the section of the beta EULA that mentioned in game store credits, and that they weren't going to hold over to the released game. If there's a store in beta, odds are there's plans to have a store post-launch. I forget the actual quote, I could go find it again if I was more interested. :-)
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