So, according to this, SWTOR is going F2P somewhere in the future (or at least adopt a F2P model). Personaly, what i search in games (every type of game) is the story. I read that SWTOR is story-focused, so i'll try it then if and only if they won't go with that "first 20 levels free" thingy. Lets hope they look at Turbine on this.
"A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one."
-- George R. R. Martin
Game is thriving....I think the initial looky loos log in every now and then but as of late there are multiple instances of locations do to the high number of people playing at a given time....Their fleet (kinda the 50 rest area) is like a New York Subway (very crowded, and chat scrolls by fast, heh)..so yea game is doing Fine....
thriving? sure if you count selling 2 million copies of the game and already being down to 1.2m subs ... that's 800,000 subs lost already and just wait til some more drop off due to prepaying for longer lengths. The game is hemorrhaging badly.
2 million sold at $50 a pop is 100 million, and at $15/month, even one million subscribers gets them 180 million a year. Not a bad haul.
reportedly the game cost EA from 200 - 500 million all-in total investment. the 500 million includes the price of bioware, which they bought in anticipation of making swtor
it was reportedly 200 mill to create swtor. some internet mmo analyst wrote that with the loans and overhead it could take them 30 years to start making a profit if they do not retain at least 1.5 mill subs
You do realise BW made other games than SWTOR after EA bought them? And that they were, while not necessarily worthwhile, profitable?
And if we are doing recalling competition, someone @ EA stated 500k is enough to make up for dev cost in what, a year?
Also, yeah, game is doing way better right now - huge pop via free server transfers = people actually running *all* content outside of peak. Something like LOTRO and Moria instances... oh, wait...
But unless they realise why they lost so many subs in the first place, it might as well happen all over again, once current crowd realises storymode never goes well with grindy activities just as previous one did.
Most comments (especially on forums) are about how SWTOR lost customers etc., but I don't feel it's something to get too alarmed by, as long as it's still working and fun to play. It's not unusual to loose customers after the initial fluff of a new game has disappeared, and developers need to keep thinking about ways to keep their audience interested. For me it's not about with how many million other people I play a game (as I won't get to know them all), but about if a game is still fun and being developed in a great way. The latter things are all there in SWTOR. Of course it might not appeal to everyone, but it does appeal to some.
Personally, SWTOR still has me interested, enough to even write about it on my blog. It's indeed much story-based and I especially recommend it if you like Star Wars. If it's getting free-to-play I don't see any harm in trying it out at all. Just install and see what you think of it.
(I don't really want to do sneaky advertisement, but if you're wondering about SWTOR you could always check out my blog to get some impressions.)
I never deleted the client and I keep it up to date because I believe the free to play moment will happen sooner rather than later. I didn't pay for it. Got it during the free weekend.
If there's a game where microtransactions could work, it's TOR.
In order to remain a subscription MMO there's a LOT they'll need to change, starting with character customization. Such a one note look to all the characters. I did manage to make one that I liked the look of, but I spent about 20 minutes doing it.
reportedly the game cost EA from 200 - 500 million all-in total investment. the 500 million includes the price of bioware, which they bought in anticipation of making swtor
it was reportedly 200 mill to create swtor. some internet mmo analyst wrote that with the loans and overhead it could take them 30 years to start making a profit if they do not retain at least 1.5 mill subs
Well, here we go... gameplay experience vs. stock prices. Too bad one does not determine the other (yet) Not to mention May 7th = people stuck on dead servers, content reduced mostly to single-player grind... (oh, wait, RoR?:P). Game has the same flaws and shortcomings after free transfers. But I've yet to see a single whinefest in General after they arrived. So yeah, game is doing well enough - at the moment, if happier population is any indication.
Unless I missed it, did it mention EA buying Bioware was a bad idea? While SWTOR might not be WOW, Bioware was far from a one trick pony and a decent studio to add to the stable. I'm trying out lotro right now waiting for an ANET game to be released. I've always liked Bioware since Bauldur's Gate 1.
Loved
BG1 & expansion
MDK2
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Neverwinter Nights
Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Dragon Age: Origins
Mass Effect 2
Dragon Age: Origins – Awakening
Dragon Age II
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Mass Effect 3
Even if SWTOR isn't your bag of tea it would seem likely that some of the games on the above list interest some of you.
Here is some food for thought. Lotro was out I think 2yrs before they went f2p. Now if you look at this game and figure out that Turbine/WB has kept the same level of customer support they had when they were sub only, I would think that SWTOR could do like wise.
Not sure of the numbers in this game, but here is what i figureall conjecture mind you)
1 person who is Free to play to start;
-$7.00: first turbine point purchase(goes premium at that point)
ok at that point he has only a minor investment in the game, lets say he likes it a lot and wants all there is to offer
-$99.00: 1 yr vip sub
in that year he has only spent $116.00. Keep in mind that not including any extra money he would want to spend on extra Turbine points above and beyond the 6k he would get that year from membership
now apply that to SWTOR and i can see their possibility for more income.
I mean the 1.5mil subs they have now gives them $2.25mil/month now, now add in micro transactions like what lotro does and I can see why they want to do that
I never was interested in the MMO portion of SWTOR. It really was WoW in space. I only ever wanted to play the single player (Mass Effect style) campaign. Why would I buy the game and pay a sub fee on top, for just that? Well I wouldn't, and didn't.
Now it is going FTP, maybe I can take a look ta the portion of the game I was interested in.
Unless I missed it, did it mention EA buying Bioware was a bad idea? While SWTOR might not be WOW, Bioware was far from a one trick pony and a decent studio to add to the stable. I'm trying out lotro right now waiting for an ANET game to be released. I've always liked Bioware since Bauldur's Gate 1.
Loved
BG1 & expansion
MDK2
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Neverwinter Nights
Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Dragon Age: Origins
Mass Effect 2
Dragon Age: Origins – Awakening
Dragon Age II
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Mass Effect 3
Even if SWTOR isn't your bag of tea it would seem likely that some of the games on the above list interest some of you.
This thread isn't about the state of Bioware. It's about the state of SWTOR and how much we can expect from it in the future before it goes free to play... Go back and read the article again.
Yes, that's the problem - the article is primarily about the state of... EA, and not SWTOR. With direct responses of EA people how SWTOR is not exactly crucial to it anyway - those various declarations are the bulk of "about SWTOR" part.
Furthermore...
"how much we can expect from it in the future before it goes free to play"?
Why exactly are you suggesting such line in the sand? If game indeed goes f2p in "initial levels only" model, then "before" or "after" doesn't matter at all, as such model is essentially extended demo. It is not exactly a bad idea considering storyline provides additional incentive to continue playing and more customers can be caught this way. And from the PoV of current playerbase - more people in starting areas is usually a very good thing. What happens further, specifically: level cap upgrade, new planet, new pvp content and the rest of already announced pieces concern only subscribers, far beyond any reasonable "free levels" territory.
Last edited by Ferthcott; Jun 20 2012 at 02:04 PM.
This thread isn't about the state of Bioware. It's about the state of SWTOR and how much we can expect from it in the future before it goes free to play... Go back and read the article again.
Re-read my response that you commented on. Here I'll even gather it for you.
Gotta figure they are out ahead on that deal already with just those games mentioned above.
I was commenting on the purchase of Bioware not being a bad thing. Regardless of SWTOR.
I was responding to this:
reportedly the game cost EA from 200 - 500 million all-in total investment. the 500 million includes the price of bioware, which they bought in anticipation of making swtor
it was reportedly 200 mill to create swtor. some internet mmo analyst wrote that with the loans and overhead it could take them 30 years to start making a profit if they do not retain at least 1.5 mill subs
thats what i recall reading at any rate
Not the whole thread, which is why I responded directly to one person's quote. Once again, I'm not surprised that a LOTRO forum would be pro LOTRO and against every other game. It is also why I did not come out and give my opinion of SWTOR. It is pretty easy to pick out the people that are going to make decisions based on loyalty to a game, especially on said games forum.
Yes, that's the problem - the article is primarily about the state of... EA, and not SWTOR. With direct responses of EA people how SWTOR is not exactly crucial to it anyway - those various declarations are the bulk of "about SWTOR" part.
Furthermore...
"how much we can expect from it in the future before it goes free to play"?
Why exactly are you suggesting such line in the sand? If game indeed goes f2p in "initial levels only" model, then "before" or "after" doesn't matter at all, as such model is essentially extended demo. It is not exactly a bad idea considering storyline provides additional incentive to continue playing and more customers can be caught this way. And from the PoV of current playerbase - more people in starting areas is usually a very good thing. What happens further, specifically: level cap upgrade, new planet, new pvp content and the rest of already announced pieces concern only subscribers, far beyond any reasonable "free levels" territory.
Ugggg. I said it WAS a good thing. I'm not a SWTOR hater. I just ain't going to pay to play it. People get so worked up...
Originally Posted by ostlix
Re-read my response that you commented on. Here I'll even gather it for you.
I was commenting on the purchase of Bioware not being a bad thing. Regardless of SWTOR.
I was responding to this:
Not the whole thread, which is why I responded directly to one person's quote. Once again, I'm not surprised that a LOTRO forum would be pro LOTRO and against every other game. It is also why I did not come out and give my opinion of SWTOR. It is pretty easy to pick out the people that are going to make decisions based on loyalty to a game, especially on said games forum.
F2P to 15 should be good, I think WoW is to level 20. I still think ANET is going to shake things up for all MMOs. We'll see.
Well, when you respond by quoting me, but you're really responding to the OP, I have to assume you're taking issue with something I said.
Here is what I said.
I think SWTOR will be free to play sooner rather than later, and not just 1 - 15. I think it would be a good thing and a smart move. I also said because SWTOR is not the main revenue source for EA, they probably aren't totally married to the subscription model.
So, to sum up.
1. Free to play soon (like a year).
2. I like the game.
3. Don't want to pay.
4. Makes sense for EA.
And the article was my source for information, but my thoughts are CLEARLY speculation.
The two of you assume everyone hates a game because it's not LOTRO and we're on the LOTRO forums and that wanting it to go free to play means we want it to fail.
Just the opposite, chums! I want it free to play so I can play it for free and so it will be around for a while.
I will, however, say that is they stick with the subscription model, they need to make some serious changes or they WILL fail. Not HAVE failed, but WILL fail.
You guys so crazy witcha gettin all shields up an ya know?
Personally, SWTOR still has me interested, enough to even write about it on my blog. It's indeed much story-based and I especially recommend it if you like Star Wars. If it's getting free-to-play I don't see any harm in trying it out at all. Just install and see what you think of it.
(I don't really want to do sneaky advertisement, but if you're wondering about SWTOR you could always check out my blog to get some impressions.)
I never understood the hype of Star Wars. That is until i played Bioware's KotOR and KotOR2. Bioware made me be interested in the SW lore, so i will definitively play SWTOR if they build the right F2P model. I'll certainly not play SWTOR if i can only do the first 15 or 20 levels.
By the way, thanks for the link
"A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one."
-- George R. R. Martin
Well, when you respond by quoting me, but you're really responding to the OP, I have to assume you're taking issue with something I said.
Here is what I said.
I think SWTOR will be free to play sooner rather than later, and not just 1 - 15. I think it would be a good thing and a smart move. I also said because SWTOR is not the main revenue source for EA, they probably aren't totally married to the subscription model.
So, to sum up.
1. Free to play soon (like a year).
2. I like the game.
3. Don't want to pay.
4. Makes sense for EA.
And the article was my source for information, but my thoughts are CLEARLY speculation.
The two of you assume everyone hates a game because it's not LOTRO and we're on the LOTRO forums and that wanting it to go free to play means we want it to fail.
Just the opposite, chums! I want it free to play so I can play it for free and so it will be around for a while.
I will, however, say that is they stick with the subscription model, they need to make some serious changes or they WILL fail. Not HAVE failed, but WILL fail.
You guys so crazy witcha gettin all shields up an ya know?
You quoted me first with your article. Please show me in your article anything that disputes what I said about purchasing Bioware was probably a good thing for EA. Which was the intention of my first post to which you responded.
As for your numbered list,
1) doubtful - we'll see
2) great
3) me neither but do enjoy supporting companies that make good games (see list above for bioware game list)
4) only if profits of f2p are > profits of sub model
Turbine may have struck gold with DDO and LOTRO, that doesn't mean every game is going to make it in f2p. I personally don't have an issue with f2p, but I think the stigma of P2W=F2P still exists out there. I doubt I'll play LOTRO long enough to be able to 100% comment on their full model, but in my short time of being around I've seen many complaints about a legendary item system, store armor, store stats and they seemed to have made some mistakes with the expansion that bothered a large group of the playerbase. It would seem a large portion of the PVP crowd (or is it PVMP) thinks that the game is not balanced and largely based on p2w as well as largely ignored by developers. Am I wrong?
The two of you assume everyone hates a game because it's not LOTRO and we're on the LOTRO forums and that wanting it to go free to play means we want it to fail.
Citation needed.
Originally Posted by EldarMenil
I never understood the hype of Star Wars. That is until i played Bioware's KotOR and KotOR2. Bioware made me be interested in the SW lore, so i will definitively play SWTOR if they build the right F2P model. I'll certainly not play SWTOR if i can only do the first 15 or 20 levels.
Sadly, well written references are mixed with really anticlimactic moments, so if you are looking for conclusion to KOTOR, you might be both amused and disappointed when you reach lv50. Also, truly relevant parts are available only during late leveling, initial stuff is mostly class story - so you are probably right about avoiding partial f2p (unless you want to be baited by BW ).
Last edited by Ferthcott; Jun 20 2012 at 03:19 PM.
and they didnt just start thinking about...they have toyed with the idea since a ways before launch.
heck they already got a store built into the core of the game that they use to handle VIPs.
they are already halfway there.
in july they will be adding a limited trial for folks to give the game a whirl.
they can level to 15 play any class but they will have a few restrictions.
this is just a stop gap measure until they do the whole conversion to f2p thingy.
they have been watching every other mmo that has converted very closely and hopefully will not copy any mistakes some have made.
when it will happen is anybodys guess....but they laid the groundwork for it a while prior to going live.
Not sure about that, revamping into f2p hybrid requires even more money and at the same time you have to provide new content - people are not going to accept "we are creating f2p, please wait" excuse - because patience is not exactly common these days, because waiting is already overused word in SWTOR's case and because they already announced new batch that has to be finished and polished before 2012 ends.
But beyond 2012? Everything's possible. No rush though - complete revamp into f2p *too soon* sends rather wrong message. Something like sever merges instead of massive free transfers - even though it is effectively the same. Can't hide f2p like that.
That partial f2p however... way, way easier, no need to create much beyond some artificial barriers for f2p players. By the time they are lv10 they can try PvP and advanced class specs, lv15-20 already gives a lot of group content. It's enough to decide whether you like it or not - with the exception of endgame. But it is not exactly a secret SWTOR endgame is far from great right now.
It is a bit beyond me how they could release such a huge title without a store to begin with. So many people are willing to pay extra just for fluff, that is so much cash that just needs to picked up off the street. If only 1 in 100 players spends about $10 extra per month on digitally created non-items, thats several millions extra revenue per year. And that is even without any actual paid gameplay enhancers. And it would make the conversion to some hybrid/F2P model easier.
But I think its a bit too early to count out the subscription absed SWTOR just yet. It is pretty obvious that a Star Wars, ANY star wars title will draw a huge crowd including lots of people that may not have the right long-term motivation to stay in an MMO, regardless of how good the actual game is.
Last edited by Vandervahn; Jun 20 2012 at 04:09 PM.
It is a bit beyond me how they could release such a huge title without a store to begin with. So many people are willing to pay extra just for fluff, that is so much cash that just needs to picked up off the street. If only 1 in 100 players spends about $10 extra per month on digitally created non-items, thats several millions extra revenue per year. And that is even without any actual paid gameplay enhancers. And it would make the conversion to some hybrid/F2P model easier.
But I think its a bit too early to count out the subscription absed SWTOR just yet. It is pretty obvious that a Star Wars, ANY star wars title will draw a huge crowd including lots of people that may not have the right long-term motivation to stay in an MMO, regardless of how good the actual game is.
Very true. The problem is that they tried to cross an MMO with a 3rd person 1 player RPG and kinda ended up with neither. If they'd called it KOTOR Online, I think it would have been a bigger hit and set expectations as to just what to expect.
But they can keep the sub and go with the hybrid model and have the best of both worlds. Store and Sub. Take Jedi off the table unless you pay and whammo.
Free to play always brings more cash for the producers. Like Robbery and Fraud always does when executed smart enough.
Swtor isnt going F2P ^^ ... they just start to call there trials F2P now because all you people are so primed at that term.
F2P is going to get the producers more money. But it will kill every game involved. Swtor will rott away just like lotro does now if it ever goes truly F2P.
And I cant see the second most sucesful mmo on the market in the danger of going out of business. When you only need around 25.000 active players to generate extra ordanary amounts of income (see EVE online)
Very true. The problem is that they tried to cross an MMO with a 3rd person 1 player RPG and kinda ended up with neither. If they'd called it KOTOR Online, I think it would have been a bigger hit and set expectations as to just what to expect.
But they can keep the sub and go with the hybrid model and have the best of both worlds. Store and Sub. Take Jedi off the table unless you pay and whammo.
Man you are totally out of wack or what ^^ how much bigger can a game hit then having over one million subs. Any clue about how game business works at of what numbers it is based in general?!?
Free to play always brings more cash for the producers. Like Robbery and Fraud always does when executed smart enough.
Swtor isnt going F2P ^^ ... they just start to call there trials F2P now because all you people are so primed at that term.
F2P is going to get the producers more money. But it will kill every game involved. Swtor will rott away just like lotro does now if it ever goes truly F2P.
And I cant see the second most sucesful mmo on the market in the danger of going out of business. When you only need around 25.000 active players to generate extra ordanary amounts of income (see EVE online)
Originally Posted by bastardoGrande
Man you are totally out of wack or what ^^ how much bigger can a game hit then having over one million subs. Any clue about how game business works at of what numbers it is based in general?!?
Eve didn't cost $200 mil to produce. Nice try BG. See you around the playground, kiddo. Mom need the computer.
All I know, is Im enjoying the game...The PVP is fun(with friends), and they actually add new PVP War zones with almost every update....hows the moors? got that tree yet?
I played swtor beta and i gotta say it is preety fun and they can expand a lot the game. Their pvp has a big future between the 2 factions and i guess spacial wars between than would be really cool.
All quests in game have spoken dialogs and u can choose ur chars answer, it is really good, seems u are really into the game, RPing. Lotro story is more fun, but swtor has a really big potencial. I really dont think it will be f2p, to play it now u need to pay for the game n about 17$ each month.
Free to play always brings more cash for the producers. Like Robbery and Fraud always does when executed smart enough.
Except that robbery means to take away something that is yours against your will. I don't see F2P games doing that.
Originally Posted by bastardoGrande
F2P is going to get the producers more money. But it will kill every game involved. Swtor will rott away just like lotro does now if it ever goes truly F2P.
I don't see LOTRO rotting. Do you? Probably LOTRO is more active than ever. The player base is big, the content is coming faster than ever and i'm really happy with it. Sure, some things should work better (Instance Finder, housing system, game economy) but overall it's a really nice game.
"A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one."
-- George R. R. Martin
If someone can pay to beat you in this game, you have no skills. lol
TOR already is corrupted. Lucas Arts is THE most greedy and underhanded company in the world. #soullessempire
They cancelled Star Wars Battlefront 3. I can never forgive them for that. NEVER.
OT: I will definitely be interested in trying TOR if/when it does go F2P. It's rather hard to see if I'd like to buy/sub to an MMO if there's no way to play some of it.
Today starts the Free-to-level-15 unlimited trial and I got the email offering me a free 7-day return to the game to check out
1.5, I dunno, maybe I will.
Give a guy a pound of gold...he'll complain about how heavy it is. Enmity of Forum Trolls: 106/5000Of the Egaads clan
Today starts the Free-to-level-15 unlimited trial and I got the email offering me a free 7-day return to the game to check out
1.5, I dunno, maybe I will.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to have a go at least, see if anything 'clicks' for me.
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