Hello all, since RoR is close, and the warden class got a massive revamp in previous patch, there are still some things left behind, with no updates. One of them is of course the bonus of the gambit 'wardens triumph' when in determination (tanking stance).
I dont know if there are gonna be any updates to the class (or new skills) with RoR, but what i would like to see is a change to the bonus from wardens triumph in determination stance. Since our stances are affecting our gameplay, warden's triumph is giving a boost to dps melee/ranged depending on the stance. But adding a damage bonus when tanking, is totally useless. What i was thinking, is when in determination stance, wardens triumph would add a 5% less inc. damage to the warden, OR a 5% bonus to avoidance. (meaning the warden could reach 30% B/P/E).
Also, more options, and wider variety of skills/gambits usage, would fit perfectly to an 'advanced' difficulty class.
I like the idea, but think that the -5% inc will never be implemented as that combined with defiant challenge and -5% store tome, you would have -100% damage for 30 seconds, every 2:30 seconds.
The buff to the BPE cap is something i would love to see though, with finesse the reduction of BPE in T2 raids is bad enough as it is, something like this would improve the situation for warden tanks in any case.
how about Warden's Triumph giving a major bonus to threat generation as it does include 2 fist builders and maybe a small threat over time bonus while in Determination.
how about Warden's Triumph giving a major bonus to threat generation as it does include 2 fist builders and maybe a small threat over time bonus while in Determination.
Even better, how about +10% perceived threat for 20s? That would be right in character for both Warden's Triumph as a short term offensive buff, and Determination as the tanking/threat stance.
Part of me wants to say i enjoy being able to increase my dps slightly in tank mode, but then i think about how little i actually do it in practice laugh. Lets look at things the class could use and fill in
1: aggro swapping tool. Aggression's nerf makes it a failure in tank swapping.
2: aggro after death. Aggression cant handle deep into a bossfight getting aggro back. Its too weak now.
or... lets think of a few things that the class doesnt need and see if anything would be nice.
3: an incoming healing bonus of 5% that goes overcap.
4: a percieved threat buff that could be constant. WT turns on a permanent percieved threat buff of 10% untill its fired again. Kinda similar to threat stance on guards but its not a stance and it has a smaller PT %. This would also allow tank swapping to go smoother. Just a few ideas
how about Warden's Triumph giving a major bonus to threat generation as it does include 2 fist builders and maybe a small threat over time bonus while in Determination.
Originally Posted by Harperelle
Even better, how about +10% perceived threat for 20s? That would be right in character for both Warden's Triumph as a short term offensive buff, and Determination as the tanking/threat stance.
--Harper
Adding a threat generation to warden's triumph, is not bad idea in general, but do we actually need it ? I dont think so, a warden should not have agro problems at the moment, no matter what situation (single fight or multi-mob fight). Plus it would make the gambit less useful in end game raids, especially in boss fights, where we take too much damage.
I would rather see a bonus to survivability from the use of warden's triumph, like avoidance bonus or inc. damage, or even incoming healing bonus. Something like this would make the skill really useful in any situation
Part of me wants to say i enjoy being able to increase my dps slightly in tank mode, but then i think about how little i actually do it in practice laugh. Lets look at things the class could use and fill in
1: aggro swapping tool. Aggression's nerf makes it a failure in tank swapping.
2: aggro after death. Aggression cant handle deep into a bossfight getting aggro back. Its too weak now.
or... lets think of a few things that the class doesnt need and see if anything would be nice.
3: an incoming healing bonus of 5% that goes overcap.
4: a percieved threat buff that could be constant. WT turns on a permanent percieved threat buff of 10% untill its fired again. Kinda similar to threat stance on guards but its not a stance and it has a smaller PT %. This would also allow tank swapping to go smoother. Just a few ideas
Not bad ideas indeed! Anything would be better from a damage boost me thinks ^^
Altho about 1 and 2 :
First of all yeah i agree that with the nerf aggression got, its really hard for wardens to tank swap. Altho i dont think there are situations that actually require tank swaping at the moment. The only fight i know of (or at least come in my mind atm ) that requires tanking swap is the Durchy fight in BG, but with the threat debuff, is really easy to tank swap. (did it many times when lvl 65 was the cap, where we didnt have aggression)
About agro after death, sure we dont have any skills that can get us immediate agro at the moment, altho most end-game situations, cant afford a tank's death.
Nooo! As a soloist I love the WT Damage Bonus, when I'm soloing in Det Det isnt just for turtle-mode tanking in groups, and Reck isnt the only stance meant for soloing...
That being said, I could understand some more useful buff for tanking - but threat gen seems like its just overkill, not EVERY skill in Det needs to come with a threat bonus...how about we keep the damage bonus, and extend it at half-strength to your groupmates within 25m? That'd be a useful bonus even for a dedicated tank. Hell, you could do the same for Adroit Manoueueouvre's buff too, might actually be worthwhile then
Hell, you could do the same for Adroit Manoueueouvre's buff too, might actually be worthwhile then
WINNER!!! AM still sucks. This would make it pretty epic all of a sudden. However... Soloing should not dictate what goes into tanking traits and skills. I would fully support WT giving inc heals bonus or other good tanking bonuses. Soloing is easy enough with crafted gear and third age weapons. Raid tanking still needs small improvements imo
I'd say that WT is working as intended and not an oversight. As the 5 length gambit its effect remains consistent and not changed by stance, the same way that restoration and desolation are. I'd be against changing it for that reason as i love me a bit of restoration in recklessness which allows me to keep up my dps without a stance dance.
That said i find WT a bit useless considering that it uses the same masteries to build as AM and AM has a much, much bigger impact on DPS, at least with the roation i find most efficient:
jav toss
AM built with sp-fi, sh-sp
persevere 2-1
SP-SP
MB sp-sh,fi-sp
BM MB
SOD 3-2, fi-sh
SH-SH
US 1, sh-fi, 1-2
BM US
jav toss
(maybe)WT sp-fi, sh-sp, 3
Then what i do next depends on the mobs health, damage taken, power left and whether i'm spear or shield traited. I've found it the most effective dps rotation i've tried.
That said i find WT a bit useless considering that it uses the same masteries to build as AM and AM has a much, much bigger impact on DPS, at least with the roation i find most efficient:
That might be true if your rotation has a whole lot of manual building...but, really, any well-built rotation won't. With double-masteries and BM to double up useful gambits, there's no reason you cant fill 15 seconds with almost all masteries, and few if any back-to-back manual builders. Since masteries are instant, that decreases AM's utility. AM only accelerates manual builders, Javelin skills, and gambit animations.
Also, attack speed suffers from decreasing returns. Assuming you're running in Reck with the legacy, you're already at -20% attack speed. Going from -20 to -40 is only actually about a 16% increase - and, again, that increase is only fully realized if you use no masteries at all. WT's bonus is 10%, which is always 10% actual damage, and it applies the same no matter how you build your gambits. Neither affect DOT ticking, so thats immaterial.
Plus, WT does a big chunk of upfront damage, while AM does not. That's usually enough to tip the scales in favor of WT. Even if you already have WT active, you're still usually better off building other gambits instead for more direct damage.
Plus, WT does a big chunk of upfront damage, while AM does not. That's usually enough to tip the scales in favor of WT. Even if you already have WT active, you're still usually better off building other gambits instead for more direct damage.
I spend a long time cooking the numbers to see if I could possibly get better DPS using AM than WT. The problem is there's about 800 damage difference in the up front damage between WT and AM. Using AM will increase your DPS somewhat, but not enough to catch up to WT, especially with WT giving the +5% bonus to ranged damage. The final conclusion I came to is that AM will allow you to slip in 1 more builder in a 20s period. That gives you an extra ~500-700 more damage. Not quite enough to catch up to the bonus that WT bestows.
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Originally Posted by Truechaos
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