Thread: We got "free" turbine points added - so why the price increase?

Doesn't matter whether you get base or legendary, you willl still need to pay tax. Do not blame Turbine/WB for that. It seems like some are never happy and just want it all free or almost free. As it is Turbine/WB has been more than generous with the TP. I would have been happy with half the amount. I think 1000TP is too much for the base.. it should only be 500. Please remember that it costs money to pay server, salaries, etc and the company prob would also like to generate some profit. I'm sure they give a certain percentage to the company that handles the orders too. In my opinion, the current prices are more than fair.. almost too generous. As I said if you don't like paying taxes, take it up with your local government, state or country... NOT Turbine/WB.

Originally Posted by Norwrei

I'm an American in France and I think the price I paid was 58 Euro for the Legendary package (not including VAT). The price will ultimately vary depending on the daily international currency exchange and VAT in different countries (France is nearly 20% VAT .. each country in the EU has their own VAT laws). Turbine/WB is not trying to cheat anyone here. They are obligated to pay VAT for certain International customers depending on which country they reside in. This is the EU law. They have no choice. So if you want to blame anyone, then blame your own government, not Turbine/WB.

PS Just checked the exchange rate, if I purchased it today it would be 55 Euro.. 3 Euro cheaper than what it was on the 6th-7th of June when I made my purchase (not including VAT).. plus an additional 10 Euro for VAT. I think where some are seeing differences is because of the daily international currency exchange. I think there is confusion also because some Turbine/WB products have set prices in Euro even though the currency exchange fluctuates. It's probably best to have all prices in USD. This way it is a bit more fair in pricing because the price will always reflect the daily currency exchange instead of a preset price in Euro & GBP which when compared to the USD does change daily.

You forgot it's also an European law that the VAT has to be included in the price given. The price said, is the price to be paid. VAT can't be added later. That's why the European prices were already higher that those in dollars.

Also like someone else said, turbine doesn't have to pay each country individual the VAT's for their customers. They can pick the cheapest and the taxes of all European countries go there.

Yeah. We get free TP and the Bundleprice goes up at the same time. Coincidence? Totally, here in Bizzaroworld this happens all the time.

Originally Posted by DobbelB_EU

You forgot it's also an European law that the VAT has to be included in the price given. The price said, is the price to be paid. VAT can't be added later. That's why the European prices were already higher that those in dollars.

Also like someone else said, turbine doesn't have to pay each country individual the VAT's for their customers. They can pick the cheapest and the taxes of all European countries go there.

You're mistaken. The VAT was not included in the ROR prices since they are all listed in USD. Yes they can add it. I know because I pay this VAT in other programs and they show the price before and after VAT. I think this is normal. You're also mistaken about Turbine picking and choosing. Other mmo's/virtual worlds have encountered similar issues, such as Second Life (owned by Linden Lab) who also charges VAT to many of it's EU customers.

No he's not, EU prices include VAT.
And prices haven't gone up as well.

Originally Posted by Calead

Exactly why I'm not buying.

I went to purchase it and it was £46, decided to wait a while. Then the news that instance cluster would be free to those who purchased expansion went out and I went back to buy it. New price = £51.99 ... Okay, only £5 more.

Go through the screens and I see:
Expansion Legendary: £51.99
Tax: £10
Total: £61.99 ...
(I don't remember exact tax but was approx £10).

IMO This is completely unacceptable... Looks like base edition for me.

Cal

70$ = 44,7£
70$+15% VAT= 80,5$
51.99£ = 81.43£
61.99 £ = 97.09$

There is clearly something wrong here.
Looks like they applied VAT twice and then added another 6$

Originally Posted by DickerHund

No he's not, EU prices include VAT.

Yes he is wrong and so are you. The ROR prices are in USD and do not include VAT until ready to purchase. There is NOTHING shady going on here by Turbine/WB. Stop starting drama folks... geez.

Originally Posted by Norwrei

Yes he is wrong and so are you. The ROR prices are in USD and do not include VAT until ready to purchase. There is NOTHING shady going on here by Turbine/WB. Stop starting drama folks... geez.

Switch language and you'll see EU prices with VAT included.
And yes, there is a problem with the shop, because it sometimes ads VAT to EU prices which is a bug.
We've gone through this in this thread several times before, if you care to read it.

Originally Posted by Norwrei

Yes he is wrong and so are you. The ROR prices are in USD and do not include VAT until ready to purchase. There is NOTHING shady going on here by Turbine/WB. Stop starting drama folks... geez.

Guess what, I live in the EU and I see prices in Euro.
YOU are wrong :P

Originally Posted by GregJL

It is NOT $80 for an expansion. It is $40 (plus SALES TAX).

$40 in taxes?

Thats a 50% sales tax

My gods what is the world coming to

Originally Posted by Norwrei

Yes he is wrong and so are you. The ROR prices are in USD and do not include VAT until ready to purchase. There is NOTHING shady going on here by Turbine/WB. Stop starting drama folks... geez.

I wouldn't surprise me if this turned out to be a Digital Rivers issue, and has nothing to do with Turbine/WB.

I k now that in the State I live in, Sales tax is only included in an online purchase if that business has a Point-of-Presence, (A physical location) in the state. Maybe something like that is going on here....

Originally Posted by Tannus

I blame the greeks

Originally Posted by Finda

omgosh - that's just so helpful of you! thank you so much

Originally Posted by Eorran

Bad joke is bad joke...

You know, actually that's not necessarily a joke. Because of the Greek election this past weekend, there was a lot of uncertaintly about where the Euro-Dollar exchange rate would be this morning. It's not inconceivable that this was priced into a lot of cross-Atlantic transactions recently, since the vendors and banks are never going to lose money on exchange rate if they can make the customer float the risk instead.

So, I've just been playing around on the website and it does seem you're charged VAT twice if you fail to change the region. If you select one of the "language" banners in the top right, the website states that "The prices of digital products sold into the European Union are inclusive of VAT (Tax) charges, where applicable". There is then no Tax added to your checkout costs.

The Lord of the Rings Online™: The Riders of Rohan™ Legendary Edition - Digital Download
US Pricing $69.99 + Tax $10.50 = Total $80.49

US Pricing in GBP 51.99GBP + Tax 7.80GBP = Total 59.79GBP

Pricing under GB "language" £51.99 (no + Tax here) = Total £51.99
The "correct" price in Euro is now €64,99.


Now, using XE.com @ today's exchange the cost direct from $80.49 should come to £51.37 but I think we can forgive them for rounding up.

Going by this logic, it does seem anyone who purchased previously managed to avoid paying tax. Which begs the question, should tax be added at all?
It would be nice to hear from Turbine as to whether the prices indicated on the rohan.lotro.com website are inclusive of tax or not. It could still be that Digital River are ripping off their customers by charging sales tax, if Turbine's pricing had already included tax (which the earlier prices seemed to indicate). I can't recall whether tax was added later when I purchased RoI and MoM; but I think I might go back and have a check.

Originally Posted by CullenD

Going by this logic, it does seem anyone who purchased previously managed to avoid paying tax. Which begs the question, should tax be added at all?
It would be nice to hear from Turbine as to whether the prices indicated on the rohan.lotro.com website are inclusive of tax or not. It could still be that Digital River are ripping off their customers by charging sales tax, if Turbine's pricing had already included tax (which the earlier prices seemed to indicate). I can't recall whether tax was added later when I purchased RoI and MoM; but I think I might go back and have a check.

The confusing thing is that the 15% VAT (tax) is already included in the GBP and EUR but not the USD base prices like it should be. They had a bug where the VAT would sometimes not be added to the USD price... apparently they fixed it now, but now the VAT is sometimes added to the EUR and GBP also, so you pay the VAT DOUBLE.

Originally Posted by Ingaras

... apparently they fixed it now, but now the VAT is sometimes added to the EUR and GBP also, so you pay the VAT DOUBLE.

its time to close this company before some serious damage and harm is inflicted

Originally Posted by DickerHund

Switch language and you'll see EU prices with VAT included.
And yes, there is a problem with the shop, because it sometimes ads VAT to EU prices which is a bug.
We've gone through this in this thread several times before, if you care to read it.

I've read the entire thread. Thank you. Yes I just noticed today that there is a drop down menu to choose how to pay, either in USD, GBP or Euro. I paid in USD since it is obviously the default option. What I also noticed when I chose Euro is that the VAT is indeed included but is actually less than what it should normally be not more. I've reached the same conclusion, there is absolutely nothing shady going on here on the part of Turbine/WB. Maybe there was a bug which did not add the VAT to early orders (lucky for them), hence why the OP feels the price has gone up. The price has not gone up. The VAT is now included.

Personally, I just love how the OP keeps coming back to repeatedly try to create some linkage between the noted behavior and the addition of the bonus Turbine Points.

Correlation =/= causation

--H

Ok this is how it works in the US

Company advertises a product for $29.99
I buy product online from the company who is in a different state
Company charges my bank account for $32.45

All is right with my world.

I understand that it's different for the EU so if I saw something for sale from the there I would adjust my thinking accordingly and assume the price is approximate because the tax will be different (unless they collect it regardless of where you live but then I would have to pay VAT plus my state sales tax).

So to all you Europeans, if you see a price in US dollars you need to assume that there is no tax added (YET) unless it says there is. For all us Americans we need to assume the opposite. To all the rest, well you guys are probably pretty used to both ways so you just go grab a beer.

Originally Posted by bastardoGrande

its time to close this company before some serious damage and harm is inflicted

So you want to close down Digital River, because they are the ones handling the sales and are responsible for the correct tax being applied. Or did you mean country since it's the country that gets the extra tax, not Turbine?

Originally Posted by Unique

So you want to close down Digital River, because they are the ones handling the sales and are responsible for the correct tax being applied. Or did you mean country since it's the country that gets the extra tax, not Turbine?

The problem is the some EU customers are being charged tax twice.
You've obviously missed that bit?

Originally Posted by CullenD

The problem is the some EU customers are being charged tax twice.
You've obviously missed that bit?

Nope, I didn't miss that, I was replying to the guy that wanted to shut down the company because of an error by a different company. Digital River is the one with the glitch that's double charging tax.

I am rather curious by all this. I am Australian so this is my receipt and payments. I bought it on June 8th, before TP added.

Product SKU: LOTRO-ROR-LEGENDARY
Product Name: The Lord of the Rings Online™: The Riders of Rohan™ Legendary Edition - Digital Download
Qty Ordered: 1
Amount: $69.99

Product SKU: LOTRO-TP-EN-5000
Product Name: The Lord of the Rings Online™ 5,000 Turbine Point Code
Qty Ordered: 1
Amount: $29.99
Subtotal: $99.98
Shipping: $0.00

Tax: $0.00
Total: $99.98
Discount: $20.00

So yep.... no tax for me. And i paid USD 99.98 AUD 104.78 (including $3 foreign transaction fee)


Oh and in my email confirmation I caught this line;
"Prices

For the avoidance of doubt, the price of each version of the Expansion, including all applicable taxes, is set out at: rohan.lotro.com."


UPDATE: I checked just now and the prices are still same for me, from Australia and still no tax applied.

Hey guys,

So some of the posts in this thread are correct -- there apparently has been an issue in our checkout system where some users had the VAT charged to them twice. This is the reason for that mysterious price increase. We've corrected the issue, so it should no longer occur, and those who were double-charged the VAT will be receiving an automatic refund for the amount of the overcharge.

We apologize for this issue, everyone!

There is only one state in the USA that does not have any form of sales tax OREGON. The state and Federal governments do tax the bejeesuz out of petrol though

Don't forget New Hampshire! No sales tax, but we do have a restaurant food tax which I guess could be a sales tax.

Originally Posted by Kutsteel

There is only one state in the USA that does not have any form of sales tax OREGON.

You sure about that? Looks like certain municipalities in Oregon do charge some form of sales tax. If you're just referring to state-wide sales tax Oregon is far from the only state to not have one.

Originally Posted by Kutsteel

There is only one state in the USA that does not have any form of sales tax OREGON. The state and Federal governments do tax the bejeesuz out of petrol though

Originally Posted by clappi

You sure about that? Looks like certain municipalities in Oregon do charge some form of sales tax. If you're just referring to state-wide sales tax Oregon is far from the only state to not have one.

Oregon does charge bottle deposits on soft drinks and such. YMMV about whether that's "any form of sales tax" or not.

Originally Posted by Deusdictum

Oregon does charge bottle deposits on soft drinks and such. YMMV about whether that's "any form of sales tax" or not.

That's not a tax because all you have to do to get your money back is return the bottles. It's an anti-littering/recycling device.

Delaware does not have any sales tax either.

They always add taxes, I got a year VIP and the Rohan expansion. VAT was added at the very end for both. Which wasn't really announced in the pricing earlier or the game adds.

I'm pretty sure Celestrata said this was an error, and those who got double-charged on the tax would be refunded. So there was no "price increase", just a mistake made and being corrected.