Thread: We got "free" turbine points added - so why the price increase?

I bought the Legendary edition for a friend, for his birthday, but at the prices shown there was no way I was ever going to buy it for myself.

Then they announced free Turbine points with the packs and so I thought, ok, now I can buy it for myself. So I go to the pages to buy - only to find that the price has now gone up! The dollar price is raised by 10, ostensibly because of 'tax'. There is no such reason given for the raising of the euro price, again by 10. The sterling has gone up by 10 also.

So - just where are these "FREE" turbine points???

I have 6 characters at 75. My main has over 11 months of /played time. I love the whole Middle Earth thing about this game, I dont play any other games - but - I WILL NOT PRE-PURCHASE FROM A COMPANY THAT PULLS SHIFTY TRICKS LIKE THIS.

$39.99, $49.99 and $69.99 same price as before

Originally Posted by Catisa

$39.99, $49.99 and $69.99 same price as before

yes, on the first screen - continue making out the order and the price jumps

Originally Posted by Catisa

$39.99, $49.99 and $69.99 same price as before

from my receipt - dated June 6th:

Product SKU: LOTRO-ROR-LEGENDARY
Product Name: The Lord of the Rings Online™: The Riders of Rohan™ Legendary Edition - Digital Download
Qty Ordered: 1
Amount: 56.31 EUR

below is a screenshot of the new updated price. This is just the euro version...

Originally Posted by Finda

yes, on the first screen - continue making out the order and the price jumps

Nope No Price Increase......
you Do realise Taxes and VAT are added after the Initial screen.
Not Before Turbine Is a US company and in the US Taxes are added at checkout
not listed in the Base Price.

This is wierd. For all of the American users out there, 65 Euros= About $91.

I would contact customer support

Some of my kinnies bought the expansion in sterling, before the turbine points were added.
They paid £46

This is the price as of now:

And - final pic - the American price. Now forgive my ignorance, as I am not American, but I was under the impression that sales taxes were paid on items bought within a specified state as all states have different rates. As my address given was not an American one, I am surprised to see the 'tax' applied...

exchange rate changed *shrug*

Originally Posted by Catisa

exchange rate changed *shrug*

Using xe.com, it can be seen that yes, the exchange rate has changed.... but in the opposite direction
LOL - Turbine thinks we're idiots

EFT VISA [Redacted] 06/07 DRI*TURBINE GAMES $75.59

From Minnesota to New York to Rohan. It's everywhere you want to be.

Originally Posted by Catisa

exchange rate changed *shrug*

Um, no. The exhange rate changing wouldn't suddenly make Turbine add tax to the US price (tax which I didn't have to pay when I pre-ordered right when it became available, by the way). This is really weird.

Originally Posted by Finda

from my receipt - dated June 6th:

Product SKU: LOTRO-ROR-LEGENDARY
Product Name: The Lord of the Rings Online™: The Riders of Rohan™ Legendary Edition - Digital Download
Qty Ordered: 1
Amount: 56.31 EUR

below is a screenshot of the new updated price. This is just the euro version...

Like others have said, you are trying to compare the price in Dollars which don't include VAT to the Euro price that does include it.

Here is a screenshot of the sales page for Euro:




If you got away without paying VAT the first time I would just count your blessings and not tell anyone....too late.

Originally Posted by Unique

Like others have said, you are trying to compare the price in Dollars which don't include VAT to the Euro price that does include it.

Here is a screenshot of the sales page for Euro:




If you got away without paying VAT the first time I would just count your blessings and not tell anyone....too late.

I have included my own screenshot of the purchase in euro, for today - nowhere is VAT mentioned - unlike your own screen... And, please note - your own screen says 'including VAT *where applicable*'

Each EU country has their own VAT rate, and consequently the price will vary a little IF the company we are paying is actually registered for VAT..... "Invoices from VAT-registered suppliers must show a separate amount for VAT. They must also show the nine-digit VAT Registration Number of the business."

This whole thing is becoming more and more bizarre...

I blame the greeks

Originally Posted by Tannus

I blame the greeks

omgosh - that's just so helpful of you! thank you so much

Originally Posted by Finda

I have included my own screenshot of the purchase in euro, for today - nowhere is VAT mentioned - unlike your own screen... And, please note - your own screen says 'including VAT *where applicable*'

Each EU country has their own VAT rate, and consequently the price will vary a little IF the company we are paying is actually registered for VAT..... "Invoices from VAT-registered suppliers must show a separate amount for VAT. They must also show the nine-digit VAT Registration Number of the business."

This whole thing is becoming more and more bizarre...

You're quite right, this is bizarre indeed.
Why would the european purchase screen not include that VAT note?
And why do they not show their registered VAT number (which is required by EU tax law)?
And how come the first few days, no one had to pay either US tax or VAT?

I currently see two possibilities.
Either they forgot the tax & VAT at the start and corrected this later, or they aren't entitled to include them for whatever reason but are still trying to push it.
So this is either a sneaky con or a disgustingly amateuristic way of running a business.

I'm going to go with Taxes added according to your area, not some giant conspiracy: (this was before adding TP, so last week or whenever)

Product SKU: LOTRO-ROR-LEGENDARY
Product Name: The Lord of the Rings Online™: The Riders of Rohan™ Legendary Edition - Digital Download
Qty Ordered: 1
Amount: $69.99
Digital Rights: blahdeblah




Subtotal: $69.99
Shipping: $0.00


Tax: $3.30
Total: $73.29

Just tested it again, and there is still an unexplained increase of €10.

Base price is €64.99
VAT is 21% (Belgium)
So that should be €78.64 total.
Instead the total price is €88.38...

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

[pony image]

+rep for Derpy. Turbine would see itself in the mirror.

Hey people, it is not Turbine, but it is Digital River - a company that handles product sales for Turbine. If you have a problem with price or VAT or Tax, take it up with Digital River. They are the seller, therefor they are responsible to collection and payment of VAT/tax to the proper governmental agency.

Maybe when there was no TP, they were not required to add sales tax/VAT? but when the added the TP (Virtual currency) they were required to add Tax/VAT? I don't know, but I would blame Digital River for any problems, they seem to have trouble with lots of games, not just Turbine Games.

@BirdofHermes
64.99€ ist not the base price but end price including whatever VAT there is in your country.
What happens is, if you add the expansion to your cart from the US screen, and then change the currency to €, the shop adds US VAT, because the $-price is without VAT.
If you change to one of the european screens first, you get your correct 64.99€.

The problem is that the shop-system defines nationality based on the language flag in the top right corner but really should look at your billing adress.

Edit: you can see it on the screenshots, if it says VAT included it is an european screen, if not it's the US-screen with currency changed to Euro.

As a USA company selling in the EU, Turbine does not have country specific VAT numbers. Turbine uses the EU wide VAT system. It does not matter where you live in the EU, you are charged the same VAT.

Turbine’s VAT Registration Number is “EU 826 015 089”.

I vaguely recall that the way it works is a company like Turbine can pick either France or Germany as the country to remit all the VAT to. It is up to the chosen country to portion out the tax to the individual countries in the EU. How the tax is handed out to various countries? What kind of information has to be provided? No idea.

Originally Posted by DickerHund

@BirdofHermes
64.99€ ist not the base price but end price including whatever VAT there is in your country.
What happens is, if you add the expansion to your cart from the US screen, and then change the currency to €, the shop adds US VAT, because the $-price is without VAT.
If you change to one of the european screens first, you get your correct 64.99€.

The problem is that the shop-system defines nationality based on the language flag in the top right corner but really should look at your billing adress.

Edit: you can see it on the screenshots, if it says VAT included it is an european screen, if not it's the US-screen with currency changed to Euro.

You're quite right. I am satisfied with that answer of why my price was through the roof.

However, it still does not explain the sudden rise in price compared to the first few days, nor why the VAT number is not given when it is required by law.

Curious, because my order confirmation says:

Subtotal: $39.99
Shipping: $0.00
Tax: $0.00
Total: $39.99

And then paid whatever Paypal calculated for the converted €€€ price:

From amount: €33.32 EUR
To amount: $39.99 USD
Exchange rate: 1 EUR = 1.20018 USD
I've been presented with the conversion options and I've chosen to use PayPal's currency converter.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

However, it still does not explain the sudden rise in price compared to the first few days, nor why the VAT number is not given when it is required by law.

I never knew that giving the VAT number is a legal requirement. Not displaying is probably due to USA business practices. No USA company is required to give their tax id number under USA law to customers. You can get Turbine VAT number from Turbine's support site.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

You're quite right. I am satisfied with that answer of why my price was through the roof.

However, it still does not explain the sudden rise in price compared to the first few days, nor why the VAT number is not given when it is required by law.

Obviously there was a bug in the shopsystem before, allowing to buy in € without VAT being added. See it as an accidental pre-preorder bonus for the most trusting customers an be happy about it if you got it.
Correct price would have been (and still is) 64.99€ everything included, as announced.
They fixed that bug and added another one, which now allows you to pay double-VAT (don't do it )
So, if you want to buy in Euro, switch to the German/French Screen first, and you should be save.
If you want to profit from exchange-rates, buy in $ but start with the US-Screen, don't change the currency to € but let your cc-company or paypal or whoever do the currency change.

There is already similar thread..
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...more-expensive

VAT - Digital River is registered in Luxembourg, which has a 15% VAT rate (for EU customers)

Yes, it seems there is a bug that prices in € is taxed two times! It looks like initial price include tax and after checkout there is another tax added..

Originally Posted by shann81

There is already similar thread..
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...more-expensive.....

It is a 'similar' thread, but I wanted to bring people's attention to the fact that the price has gone up - for all - since the so-called "FREE" Turbine points were added...

Originally Posted by Finda

It is a 'similar' thread, but I wanted to bring people's attention to the fact that the price has gone up - for all - since the so-called "FREE" Turbine points were added...

According other posts.. The initial (EU) price was wrong and if you bought it you can call yourself lucky. Now they added tax for european players (+15%). There is no price change for US players (if buying in $)..
There is another bug in store system, if you buy expansion in in EUR/GBP you could be charged for another 15% (double tax). So it's more safe to buy in $ now till they fix the store system..

Product SKU: LOTRO-ROR-LEGENDARY
Product Name: The Lord of the Rings Online™: The Riders of Rohan™ Legendary Edition - Digital Download
Qty Ordered: 1
Amount: $69.99
Digital Rights: blahblah

Subtotal: $69.99
Shipping: $0.00

Tax: $0.00
Total: $69.99


I see nothing wrong with price, bought it yesterday, Europe, Poland

Originally Posted by giboosc

Product SKU: LOTRO-ROR-LEGENDARY
Product Name: The Lord of the Rings Online™: The Riders of Rohan™ Legendary Edition - Digital Download
Qty Ordered: 1
Amount: $69.99
Digital Rights: blahblah

Subtotal: $69.99
Shipping: $0.00

Tax: $0.00
Total: $69.99


I see nothing wrong with price, bought it yesterday, Europe, Poland

What is you payment method? PayPal, VISA etc? I payed with VISA and was charged with TAX..

Paypal, but i have my own business and ive filled the "TAX ID NO" field in form.

Originally Posted by Tannus

I blame the greeks

Bad joke is bad joke...

Date: 06.06.2012 20:14:01 CEST
Selected offer: DRI*Turbine Games order
Price: EUR 56,31

I'm an American in France and I think the price I paid was 58 Euro for the Legendary package (not including VAT). The price will ultimately vary depending on the daily international currency exchange and VAT in different countries (France is nearly 20% VAT .. each country in the EU has their own VAT laws). Turbine/WB is not trying to cheat anyone here. They are obligated to pay VAT for certain International customers depending on which country they reside in. This is the EU law. They have no choice. So if you want to blame anyone, then blame your own government, not Turbine/WB.

PS Just checked the exchange rate, if I purchased it today it would be 55 Euro.. 3 Euro cheaper than what it was on the 6th-7th of June when I made my purchase (not including VAT).. plus an additional 10 Euro for VAT. I think where some are seeing differences is because of the daily international currency exchange. I think there is confusion also because some Turbine/WB products have set prices in Euro even though the currency exchange fluctuates. It's probably best to have all prices in USD. This way it is a bit more fair in pricing because the price will always reflect the daily currency exchange instead of a preset price in Euro & GBP which when compared to the USD does change daily.

Originally Posted by Finda

And - final pic - the American price. Now forgive my ignorance, as I am not American, but I was under the impression that sales taxes were paid on items bought within a specified state as all states have different rates. As my address given was not an American one, I am surprised to see the 'tax' applied...

$80 for an expansion

HOLY RING WRAITH

Originally Posted by Gundamyr

$80 for an expansion

HOLY RING WRAITH

It is NOT $80 for an expansion. It is $40 (plus SALES TAX).

Exactly why I'm not buying.

I went to purchase it and it was £46, decided to wait a while. Then the news that instance cluster would be free to those who purchased expansion went out and I went back to buy it. New price = £51.99 ... Okay, only £5 more.

Go through the screens and I see:
Expansion Legendary: £51.99
Tax: £10
Total: £61.99 ...
(I don't remember exact tax but was approx £10).

IMO This is completely unacceptable... Looks like base edition for me.

Cal