For me balance in moors is when a fully geared OP guard can easily kill a rank 10 warg but cant kill a rank 2 defiler.
I think that about sums it up for me.
As someone has already pointed out, Freep DPS/Creep survivability is the BIGGEST (but by no mean only) issue with respect to moors balance.
Freeps have gear and the vesatility this provides. If a freep chooses to he can drop his ridiculously high dps by 15-20% and stack morale as high as ranked creeps. His dps will still be orders of magnitude higher than the creeps while retaining maximum morale.
Freep DPS is not only high in a sustained measure but for many classes its heavily slanted toward burst. Burgs, RKs, Hunters, Champs and even LMs have INSANE burst damage. Even for ranked creeps with full audacity and traited for it as best they can you can still easily be obliterated in one second by even moderately sized freep groups. Surprise Strike from stealth, Epic Conclusion, Bloodarrow/Penetrating Shot, Sticky Gourd, etc etc.
I dont know what the answers are but one might be a dramatic overhaul of the corruptions system Audacity should be improved creepside and on both sides should be scaled with rank.
Honestly I dont expect there to be much attention given to it by Turbine. They cant even produce 1 additional PVP map in 5 years which would presumably require less effort than addressing the complexities of moors balance.
I totally agree! Freep DPS and Creep survive-ability is the key issue, even for I, have full audacity and still get blown up as well as stunned for quite some time.
I wish they took out the LI system once you entered the 'Moors, lol. I wasn't involved in PvMP when MoM came out, but I heard it was alot better than it is now, which I can totally agree with, but again nothing is going to chance.
For me balance in moors is when a fully geared OP guard can easily kill a rank 10 warg but cant kill a rank 2 defiler.
I think that about sums it up for me.
You can't kill him, but that doesn't mean he can kill you.
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
You can't kill him, but that doesn't mean he can kill you.
If i stay and fight he surely can. It may take 10 mins o so, but still, no low rank creep should have such an edge over a freep. What would you think if a lvl 40 came to moors and started slaping you around, sure he cant kill you, but you have to run away from him or more freeps come and beat you senseless. I ve been chased by a warg and defiler over the whole map, cant do anything, the flies just dont let you play. Ive sat out of more then a few raids watching others fight, its extremely annoying and boring. At least make it have 6k morale not 12k, id run out of power 5 times before killing it. Turbine, why wont you let me play the game!!!!
If i stay and fight he surely can. It may take 10 mins o so, but still, no low rank creep should have such an edge over a freep. What would you think if a lvl 40 came to moors and started slaping you around, sure he cant kill you, but you have to run away from him or more freeps come and beat you senseless. I ve been chased by a warg and defiler over the whole map, cant do anything, the flies just dont let you play. Ive sat out of more then a few raids watching others fight, its extremely annoying and boring. At least make it have 6k morale not 12k, id run out of power 5 times before killing it. Turbine, why wont you let me play the game!!!!
Well, this defiler is unable to make any substantial inf, would be blasted to smitherines by any dps freep and unless he had bought all his store skills, you would've been able to beat him with ease.
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
Well, this defiler is unable to make any substantial inf, would be blasted to smitherines by any dps freep and unless he had bought all his store skills, you would've been able to beat him with ease.
See, you just answered the OP question. The store is exactly where you should start with the balancing. Also, the flies need a nerf fast even if they are used by a ranked defiler or the guard needs some power regen skills, champ can borrow us a few of those.. I cant participate in a raid with my non-existant power regen skills. It takes the flies about 15-20 sec to suck me dry. Thats really not fair, might as well just be dead, better then having to watch others having fun and being awesome.
Im really not asking for much, just let me play.
This is the message i keep always on ctrl+p when raiding: Fear the flies, fear the flies!!!! No really, i need a ministrel to fear the damn flies, theyr sucking me dry!!!
Last edited by zagreb000; Jul 03 2012 at 12:04 PM.
See, you just answered the OP question. The store is exactly where you should start with the balancing. Also, the flies need a nerf fast even if they are used by a ranked defiler or the guard needs some power regen skills, champ can borrow us a few of those.. I cant participate in a raid with my non-existant power regen skills. It takes the flies about 15-20 sec to suck me dry. Thats really not fair, might as well just be dead, better then having to watch others having fun and being awesome.
Im really not asking for much, just let me play.
This is the message i keep always on ctrl+p when raiding: Fear the flies, fear the flies!!!! No really, i need a ministrel to fear the damn flies, theyr sucking me dry!!!
hmm may i recomend you to roll a defiler rank it up to whatever rank you are (8) and then come back and say that nice story again.
For me balance in moors is when a fully geared OP guard can easily kill a rank 10 warg but cant kill a rank 2 defiler.
I think that about sums it up for me.
hmm may i recomend you to roll a defiler rank it up to whatever rank you are (8) and then come back and say that nice story again.
What, they cant do damage, mostly first targets. Dont see your point. Are you trying to say that i shouldnt be allowed to play the game just because defilers (the creep main healers) dont do damage? You do know thats really silly.
What, they cant do damage, mostly first targets. Dont see your point. Are you trying to say that i shouldnt be allowed to play the game just because defilers (the creep main healers) dont do damage? You do know thats really silly.
u misunderstood
try defiler up to rank 8 (play it) and then scream for nerf.
See, you just answered the OP question. The store is exactly where you should start with the balancing. Also, the flies need a nerf fast even if they are used by a ranked defiler or the guard needs some power regen skills, champ can borrow us a few of those.. I cant participate in a raid with my non-existant power regen skills. It takes the flies about 15-20 sec to suck me dry. Thats really not fair, might as well just be dead, better then having to watch others having fun and being awesome.
Im really not asking for much, just let me play.
This is the message i keep always on ctrl+p when raiding: Fear the flies, fear the flies!!!! No really, i need a ministrel to fear the damn flies, theyr sucking me dry!!!
Let me tell you the story of the WL who was trying to heal with a champ attacking him...
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
try defiler up to rank 8 (play it) and then scream for nerf.
Absolutely! Nerf the flies, give the defilers more dps, whatever, just let me play the game.
Originally Posted by Squelcher
Let me tell you the story of the WL who was trying to heal with a champ attacking him...
How bout a story of a guardian that was surprised when his TTk skill that suposedly does 1300 damage did only 300 to a WL. Or how his power pool was cut in half by a flag sticking out of the ground. Or how BAs shoot through my pledge, how the only thing keeping me alive in moors is my 17sec sprint combined with silvan shadows- the most awesome useless skill in lotro.
Last edited by zagreb000; Jul 03 2012 at 01:28 PM.
How bout a story of a guardian that was surprised when his TTk skill that suposedly does 1300 damage did only 300 to a WL. Or how his power pool was cut in half by a flag sticking out of the ground. Or how BAs shoot through my pledge, how the only thing keeping me alive in moors is my 17sec sprint combined with silvan shadows- the most awesome useless skill in lotro.
My main freep was a guard and survivability more than makes up for your lack of dps. You are not underpowered.
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
My main freep was a guard and survivability more than makes up for your lack of dps. You are not underpowered.
Cmon, you dont really mean that. We were ok pre roi. When pledge was actually usefull, we did nice damage but had major power issues. Now we dont have power issues when theres not a defiler, wl, weaver around but have lower dps compared to pre roi, lower survivability then pre roi. The only thing thats keeping guards alive in moors is Charge, nothing else (if you want to dps, which most guards do want, change of pace from tanking). Why arent guards first target in raids, because we can run away and arent a big threat dps-wise.
If we didnt have charge, only hunters and rks would die more then us. champs-bubbles, mini-megaheals, captain-heals, last stand, LMs-slow,root,stuns, and the one heal they pop when running away, Wardens-dont know where to start with them, they cant die
Cmon, you dont really mean that. We were ok pre roi. When pledge was actually usefull, we did nice damage but had major power issues. Now we dont have power issues when theres not a defiler, wl, weaver around but have lower dps compared to pre roi, lower survivability then pre roi. The only thing thats keeping guards alive in moors is Charge, nothing else (if you want to dps, which most guards do want, change of pace from tanking). Why arent guards first target in raids, because we can run away and arent a big threat dps-wise.
If we didnt have charge, only hunters and rks would die more then us. champs-bubbles, mini-megaheals, captain-heals, last stand, LMs-slow,root,stuns, and the one heal they pop when running away, Wardens-dont know where to start with them, they cant die
You are not underpowered. Play creep and you will have a notion of what being underpowered is. I speak from playing a guard.
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
Trying to balance freep and creep is never going to happen because you never know what classes are going to be out there. What needs to happen is you need to balance healing with dps. If say you can average 200 damage per second then you need to average 200 healing per second for things to be balanced. Right now healing output, especially on freep side, is way higher than the damage that can be put out. So right now if freeps don't have the healing in the moors then things are balanced but when they do it scews up the whole balance. That is the whole problem.
Balance is when not numbers or class make-ups, or gear win fights , but the skill or the player(s) in question.
While Balance in that definition is almost never truly reached without having 1 class that is identical on both sides... What players want in Balance is for player skill to play a larger role than anything else. The wider the discrepancy in what plays the larger role in success, the more Balanced a games PvP is considered.
Airfury
Long Gone
Et sicut ego vado respicio et inhorrescere ad caecitate vestra
See, you just answered the OP question. The store is exactly where you should start with the balancing. Also, the flies need a nerf fast even if they are used by a ranked defiler or the guard needs some power regen skills, champ can borrow us a few of those.. I cant participate in a raid with my non-existant power regen skills. It takes the flies about 15-20 sec to suck me dry. Thats really not fair, might as well just be dead, better then having to watch others having fun and being awesome.
Im really not asking for much, just let me play.
This is the message i keep always on ctrl+p when raiding: Fear the flies, fear the flies!!!! No really, i need a ministrel to fear the damn flies, theyr sucking me dry!!!
Eerrr, you have 3 power regen skills, and pots. Plus, why are you consuming power like that? Are you one of those OP guardians? If that's the case, consider going back to sword&board, far more effective in moors raids.
In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes. When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead
The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.
Eerrr, you have 3 power regen skills, and pots. Plus, why are you consuming power like that? Are you one of those OP guardians? If that's the case, consider going back to sword&board, far more effective in moors raids.
One of those guardians? You mean the awesome ones, dont you, then yes i am.
TTh is 500 power
ToD is 450x3 power
With flies on you or a flag planted those skills help you little or nothing.
As i said before we dont have power issues when soloing due to Audacity, but in bigger fights, Wls cut my power pool to 1k, defilers drain the rest, happens really fast.
But there is RELATIVE balance, which we have had before.
Relative balance means that you don't have several classes on one side that can take on larger groups of average creeps solo.
Right on the mark there.
Kid you not.
I was in GV the other day and overheard a Burg talking to one of the better known Wardens on our server. The Warden was complaining that he lost a fight to five Wargs and a Reaver. Then went on to say, with a straight face, that he thought a well played Warden should be able to take on five Wargs by himself.
I wanted to say something to the effect that the five Wargs would disagree.
Wish I'd screen shotted it or grabbed a chat log.
But it speaks to the heart of imbalance. Assuming decent players on both sides, it should never require better than six to one odds to beat someone, unless it's someone who's an absolute master of their class against unranked novices. Closer to even in rank and skill? No way. Sorry, no.
The funny thing is, on my server, I've seen a pack of six mid-high ranked Wargs go up against a Warden and finally give up and just leave after about 7 minutes of not being able to to enough DPS to overcome its AoE Vampire healing.
And no, I'm not calling to nerf Wardens. I'm not even saying every class should be a fair fight against every other class. It really is OK for one class to have an advantage over a different class, as long as there is some class that has an advantage over them in return.
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Originally Posted by zagreb000
Leader of Rogues Gallery. Uruk dominance campaigner.
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