Thread: Petition: Remove Fellow-Wide Desperate Flight

If they change DF to a groupwide huge power regen skill I'll support it (eternally hopeful), otherwise /signed in support for this thread

The hobbit Durrga, hunter of squirrels and signposts, approves and signs this petition

There is no reason to give fellowship wide df a second thought.

Give us in combat camo, not something that takes us out of a fight completely like DF, but a lesser version of hips on a longer cd than hips.


Desperate Concealment
'The hunter uses his/her/it's knowledge of nature, the wilderness, and forests to fade into the surroundings to seek refuge, concealment, and healing for a limited amount of time.'

Also for the hunter:
Pets who spawn mounted turrets!!

you can add all my chars to that petition. BAD IDEA YOU IDIOT DEVS!

The first Hunter post on the thread...just think if you could go back in time and be the first!

What wonders we could have created!

What new direction the Hunter class could have went towards!

But no, no. We get this...person, who I am going to avoid hurling insults at, because they might not stop, ask for Fellowship wide Desperate Flight.

And these, devs, for lack of a better word, take this person up on their offer.

I swear, it's like the devs have a permanent Trollface for the Hunters.

I'm still in a sort of state of shock.. I wasn't aware that anyone even remembered they had DF. If I'm ever about to die, my first thoughts are usually something along the lines of, "well, this sucks, what can I do to heal myself or inflict such massive damage on the enemy that I might be able to escape?", and not even close to, "oh, about to die, no problem, I have DF".

./signed despite all of the potentially awesome trolling possible with it.

I too am signing this petition.

However, to be a little more constructive, I'd like to encourage us all to be continual positive contributors to the hunter class. If I was employed by Turbine I would be very relucantant to go the extra mile having read some of the comments in other threads.

I'd imagine it'd be similar to a hunter port, with the option for people to accept. Except obviously a different destination and instant. Lets see how it would be implemented, if it would be implemented, before going off.

/signed

I still think it was a joke but just in case Ive /signed

Originally Posted by tongra

/signed.

For those of you arguing that they are only experimenting, I would contest that even experimenting with such a useless and unwanted skill is a reflection of their complete lack of attention to the hunter community and needs. I don't care if its finalized or being thought about, its a bad move all around.

^
This ... And one hundred times this.

/signed

Yes, that's it! We shall keep positive and continue with the constructive posts!



As much as I'd love for this petition to be looked over and the devs actually give some thought to what they're doing...

Originally Posted by Zombielord

^
This ... And one hundred times this.

/signed

One thousand times this. Signed.

/signed

Remove the Improved DF and add this ----> http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Moving_Target for real survive skill

Originally Posted by AaylaKheledlire

/signed

Remove the Improved DF and add this ----> http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Moving_Target for real survive skill

Agreed.

And no it won't make hunters the tanks in PvE :P We still die in 3 hits once it's expired :P

/signed

The fact that this has even hit the Forums, experimental or not just goes to show how disconnected the Hunter Dev(s) are from the Class.

Hundreds of pages of complaints, suggestions and ideas and nowhere was DF ever mentioned (apart from bring it back to the Moors), and here they are trying to improve something that no-one has complained about, and said improvement will result in a worse Skill.

Really, truly, seriously ??????

Originally Posted by AaylaKheledlire

Remove the Improved DF and add this ----> http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Moving_Target for real survive skill

Tempting ... but if I wanted to be a black arrow I'ed roll one.

And by the way I'm not a huge fan of kanar, I'ed have some Raktajino thanks

Originally Posted by AaylaKheledlire

/signed

Remove the Improved DF and add this ----> http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Moving_Target for real survive skill

Agreed.

/signed

What's next?. Improved improved desperate flight, it kicks you out of the fellowship just to avoid angry leaders.

Originally Posted by Reapor

Hundreds of pages of complaints, suggestions and ideas and nowhere was DF ever mentioned (apart from bring it back to the Moors)

That reminds me why Soviet Russia attacked Afghanistan: they simply decided to proceed alphabetically.


So... Split Shot, threat, survivability, secondary role... uh, oh...

Not to mention true and ultimate task of finding Zombie Columbus ^^

i am just waiting to here from the devs. which they never will. but untill the community team shuts us down for trying to make a bad idea not happen we should post as much as possible to try and get there atection.

Christ, no wonder the hunte dev has no corrospondence with the 'hunter community'.
You guys are a pack of rabid dogs looking for something to savage.

The level of hyperbole about this suggested change is insane.
Anyone would think they suggested major nerf for the class instead of a skill which will make it easy to spot the idiots you don't want grouping wtih you. :P

Originally Posted by Tannus

You guys are a pack of rabid dogs looking for something to savage.

Yup, that's us. And proud of it.

Yep - that's what I need to start playing my hunter again - fellowship DF. I'll log on now.

Originally Posted by stu111

Yep - that's what I need to start playing my hunter again - fellowship DF. I'll log on now.

yep +1


12345

Originally Posted by Tannus

Anyone would think they suggested major nerf for the class instead of a skill which will make it easy to spot the idiots you don't want grouping wtih you. :P

Hmmm...... not even going to comment.

./signed

Originally Posted by Tannus

Christ, no wonder the hunte dev has no corrospondence with the 'hunter community'.
You guys are a pack of rabid dogs looking for something to savage.

The level of hyperbole about this suggested change is insane.
Anyone would think they suggested major nerf for the class instead of a skill which will make it easy to spot the idiots you don't want grouping wtih you. :P

although I agree that all posts/communications should be done in a polite and professional manner... we aren't dealing with child developers. As far as I know... anyone working at Turbine/WB is of an adult age and demeanor and should thus respond as such.

To suggest that criticisms shouldn't be posted because developers will have hurt feelings and will take their game and go pout in the corner rather than address their customer base is rather absurd. I work in the software industry and if I were to suggest to either my customers or managers that I'm not going to respond to questions related to bugs, deficiencies or problems because my feelings were hurt .. I'd have no customers and would be out of a job. The kids that play the game (of which there are some) can act like kids.. but the adults who program the game should act like adults.

Originally Posted by Tannus

Christ, no wonder the hunte dev has no corrospondence with the 'hunter community'.
You guys are a pack of rabid dogs looking for something to savage.

The level of hyperbole about this suggested change is insane.
Anyone would think they suggested major nerf for the class instead of a skill which will make it easy to spot the idiots you don't want grouping wtih you. :P

Ok.. let me counter with this... with the addition of this skill is a hunter more or less desirable in a group setting?


If you have to think about the answer to this then we have completely wasted a spot for something we need to make us better. Even if this skill has no effect on the hunter being invited or not, it takes the place of a skill or change that could make our class better.

Tydalmir.

P.S. Didn't you get enough of wasted skills with hunter's art and split shot? Why add yet another?

/signed

I don't play a hunter but I can see this as a really major problem.

Sure nothing is set in stone yet but don't tell people to calm down and wait. If the recent complaints about the ROR xpac have shown anything its that Turbine is willing to listen and change. To simply put blind faith in them and say wait till this goes live before you complain is wrong. Then it will be too late. Voice your complaints now but remember to keep calm and state your wishes. Nobody listens to the person who screams this is wrong and you are all idiots for not seeing it my way.

I think this sounds like a very bad idea. And again since I don't play a hunter my opinion my not be the best. I will tell you a long time ago my kin was doing the 24 person helegrod dragon fight. We were real close to finishing the dragon off when one of our hunters hit DF on accident. She did not get credit for the kill because she couldn't get back into the fight. We won but I felt bad for her. I can only imagine the way she would have felt if after hours of working on that fight she hit DF and shipped the entire raid out. Honestly could you imagine? I could also see this as a way for person to purposely screw a raid if they felt like it and that is flat out wrong.

I guess it wouldn't be so bad if the other people have the option not to travel but still I don't see much use in this skill. I would encourage the devs to rethink this. Or explain why it isn't such a horrible idea. Better still look at the many other worthy suggestions made by the people on the hunter forums.

/signed

I would prefer turbine to invest their resources in experimenting with more useful changes that actually improve the abilities of the Hunter class. In my opinion there are much better options than the suggested fellowship-wide Desperate Flight that have already been extensively discussed on these forums. I struggle to see any circumstances in which the mooted 'Improved DF' would be useful to me as a player or my group.

Please leave this experiment in the lab.

Thankyou

Count me in on this petition. This is my first post in the wonderful world of the forums but I agree with the general intent of all the comments that a fellowship wide desperate flight is not going to be of much use.

Tarelros of Nimrodel

Originally Posted by Nuth_KM

although I agree that all posts/communications should be done in a polite and professional manner... we aren't dealing with child developers. As far as I know... anyone working at Turbine/WB is of an adult age and demeanor and should thus respond as such.

To suggest that criticisms shouldn't be posted because developers will have hurt feelings and will take their game and go pout in the corner rather than address their customer base is rather absurd. I work in the software industry and if I were to suggest to either my customers or managers that I'm not going to respond to questions related to bugs, deficiencies or problems because my feelings were hurt .. I'd have no customers and would be out of a job. The kids that play the game (of which there are some) can act like kids.. but the adults who program the game should act like adults.

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. It's when players start calling developers stupid, lazy, idiots, etc, that I have a problem with it. They are anything but.

my pocket hunt got realy mad when he heard this
so /signed from jailwartho of meneldor

Actually, I'm not sure if I sign this or if I don't.

I agree it is definitively NOT a needed or asked for change and as such should receive 0 priority.

With that in mind. I think it can be put to GOOD use.

First of all: Group leaders should have the ability to disallow use of the skill (with or without a vote from the group).
That alone would stop that stray hunter from using it in a PUG for instance.

With that in mind, a leader's call for the hunter to use the skill can save a lot of grievance in a potential wipe.

Even if everybody else is dead, a hunter taking a healer (or another class with a rez skill) out of a certain death is NOT a bad thing and will not only save the healer a dread removal, but also get him back faster (with the regular hunter speed boost).

I cannot simply say it is a bad skill, but I CAN say it should not get ANY priority at all...

One of the prominent Hunters on the forums (can't remember which) has already pointed out that IDF isn't really being proposed. The Developers are just trolling us. Don't feed the trolls.

Originally Posted by bastiat1

One of the prominent Hunters on the forums (can't remember which) has already pointed out that IDF isn't really being proposed. The Developers are just trolling us. Don't feed the trolls.

We though they were trolling us when they announced Split Shot and Hunter's Art.

Originally Posted by bastiat1

One of the prominent Hunters on the forums (can't remember which) has already pointed out that IDF isn't really being proposed. The Developers are just trolling us. Don't feed the trolls.

The only way this "prominent Hunter" () would know that is if they're participating on the test server, in which case, they're breaking the NDA.

/Signed

I also believed that this was just a moronic Dev Trolling us, or some gimp from marketing spouting off about something they had no understanding about ie gameplay and class mechanics.

There was some mention a few posts ago about the potential uses of group DF in saving dread, repairs, healers ressers and saving half a raids scroll and hope buffs in wipe situations. Meh.

In PvP DF was a cheezy skill, I only ever liked to use it when bailing from a failed keep attack, after charging through the creeps to draw them off giving the rest of my broken legged comrades a chance to escape on foot and then DFing at the last second. (back in SoA when Hunters could last more than about 5 seconds under creep attack!)

When you consider that we will probably get 3 new or upgraded skills in RoR, the idea that any Hunter with more than 3 braincells would choose to the groupwide DF option (and theres plenty of us!) is a joke.

If the DF skill was totally reworked, say as a HIPS skill, it would be something worth having - moors survivability and aggro management in one go... BUT that is probably cloud cookoo land, and DF, solo or groupwide is a worthless waste of a skill upgrade otherwise.

I am still cautiously optimistic that this is just a mad rumour, but any Turbine employee who propagated this myth should get their &&&& kicked for winding up the Hunter community.

If it does turn out to be true it could be the final nail in our classes coffin.

I am not overly optimistic seeing how things have gone in the game and for Hunters in the last couple of years, but I am expecting much better from Rohan than Fellowship wide DF

Originally Posted by Ayrolen

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. It's when players start calling developers stupid, lazy, idiots, etc, that I have a problem with it. They are anything but.

Sorry if walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is probably a duck.

Stupid.. no, but lack of knowledge when it comes to the abilities and needs of a class is what we have here... no threat management, AOE without thinking about how squishy we are, split shot and other skills that most hunters do not use... walks like a duck

Lazy... putting out split shot and hunter's art on the quick to say we got an upgrade while many improvements and fixes went undone.... swims like a duck.

Idiots... PVP armor and fellowship DF... quacks like a duck.

Hmmm... seems like a duck to me.


Tydalmir

It's useless in solo play, to be sure.

Originally Posted by Lucanthanas

Even if everybody else is dead, a hunter taking a healer (or another class with a rez skill) out of a certain death is NOT a bad thing and will not only save the healer a dread removal, but also get him back faster (with the regular hunter speed boost).

Can you be more specific in what cases it would be useful? I don't see them.

If everyone is pulled away unconditionally, you lost all progress in the battle, which means you should have tried to beat the enemy with whatever resources you had. You are much better off dying in place and hoping for a rez. Dread removal can be done in bulk anyway, so might as well wait for everyone to wipe.

If folks are pulled away conditionally, there is a major delay to that choice in clicking yes/no (making it effectively something that requires too much warning for it to be effective and not asked for in too many false positive cases.)

In addition, a conditional pull can be useless. In many parts of group play (Foundry, Attack at Dawn final battle, Draig, etc.), retreating would cause you simply to be unable to rejoin the battle... in which case everyone else wipes and then your Healer takes away the dread for the entire group when everyone retreats the old fashioned way. That's not going to make everyone happy with the hunter, because the retreat ADDED NO VALUE.

I can't imagine the hatred in cases where a retreat would cause a battle to reset (hopefully this doesn't happen, but I've seen enough weird resets that I don't dismiss these types of concerns)

Given the hunter has very little other skill than DPS, and is at this point bordering on (or perhaps already) inferior to a champ and RK in that regard, I'm baffled they are even experimenting with it...

The one exception would be if it has some wild mechanic to it that is more than flight. Like DF but coming back with a permanent 30 minute +25% buff to morale & power for the fellowship... except that could basically be abused (use it first thing in the battle) so there is no reason they would do it that way. ... or perhaps it put a 1 day -morale and -power buff on any aggro'd monsters so that they had the exact morale when the IDF was triggered (and can't get more). That way it serves two purposes:
(1) Can pause a battle for some period of time, group can pick it up after potty breaks, dinner, etc. (as long as the instance is still active)
(2) Maintains progress in the battle, so everyone can get away, folks can regroup, but it doesn't reset the entire thing (because as already explained, you might as well wipe the normal way if that's all you get).

Originally Posted by AaylaKheledlire

/signed

Remove the Improved DF and add this ----> http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Moving_Target for real survive skill

/signed

I think moving target would be a better idea as well. My BA can't live with out it. DF... I even forgot I had that skill.. I have never used it.. by choice, not stupidity, I enjoy a good challenge. If I take on more then I can handle (like the purple guys in Eregion when I was level 30ish, just as an example...) I deserve what I get. :P